Do y'all fellow jund brethren think there is any efficacy in playing surgical extraction over spellbombs? Can be used against scapeshift and tron effectively.
I truthfully thought IMA was fairly loaded with value. Many of the re-prints were of highly priced cards that had low supply’s. In my mind it’s definitely a sleeper set that could look really good in a few years.
You all realize this set isn't specifically designed to appease modern players? Reprint equity is a real thing and given the influx of masters sets over the past couple years they can't realistically all be loaded with staples.
I agree with your end result but not your reasoning, I feel wizards should return complexity to lower raritys. However I feel they need to pay MORE attention to older formats not less. They need to take standard and go "here are 5 cards that help with the following arctypes that exsist in modern/legacy as good potental valid choices to play with" Boom here is a new burn spell its 1 mana sorcory and deals 4 damage to each player, helps burn, Here is a New artifact that nicely fits in to affinity as a potential play choice, Here is a Great libary self miller say 1 black to put the 7 cards of your libary in to your graveyard yoru welcome dredge. Basically assume the other formats can take anything you throw at them and every set print 2-5 cards that slot in to existing decks in the meta game, Preferable T 2 and T1.5 decks that push them alittle bit. By printing cards that helps decks that don't exists in standard it only adds value to standard which takes away value from standard staples. This makes standard cheaper withlut warping it since most of the types of cards I am talking about are uselss in standard itself.
I don't think this argument is synonymous with the end result I suggested. This argument is to use new sets to print cards for existing archetypes in older formats that have no impact in standard. What this does is decrease Wizards' demand for standard game play and likely decrease the longevity of magic's success. Wizards does actually need to make money from the game for magic to exist and the best way to do that is by ensuring that standard is fun to play, is interesting and can appeal to both new and enfranchised players. Something it has severely lacked in recent years.
Reading through some of the posts in this thread there seems to be a very common trend. Everyone (almost everyone) is complaining about the price of playing magic.
I think this argument has mostly referred to modern and eternal formats, but I don't think lowering the price of playing modern/legacy is what is going to make magic a better game. The large price of buying a modern or legacy deck to me seems to be more so an indicator that magic isn't in a horrible spot given the demand exists to create those prices.
What is going to make magic a healthier game is likely focusing more on standard. In the past wizards printed cards without really thinking or caring about the impact on other formats. Now when printing cards they're keeping multiple formats in mind such as edh and modern.
For magic to be a healthier game, wizards should pay a little less mind to other formats. Their watchful eye on how their printings affect other formats has kept the complexity of standard very low, and as a result has diminished the quality of gameplay and reduced diversity within the format.
More complexity in standard at lower rarity levels addresses two issues. It adds more depth to the standard format making for more interesting gameplay. It also helps address price concerns within the flagship format by printing more commons and uncommons that will see tournament play.
This goes directly against wizards' New World Order, but I think New World Order was a mistake to begin with. Sure there is a balance to be struck, but as it stands, standard is neither an engaging format nor a fun one.
The key to magic's long term success is through making standard enjoyable. This might mean enabling more archetypes to be powerful, it might mean printing land destruction again, and it could be just printing more complex cards. Making standard better should be the number one priority as that is always a big source of Wizard's revenue. Ensuring that Magic is profitable for the company producing it is what will increase magic's longevity.
The problem is that the prices are not just a factor of demand, but how the cards are being printed and distributed. There's basically two sides to the entire "how to make magic better" ordeal. The first is to get the game design back on track so people can actually enjoy standard again. A fact I've come across multiple times is that the design team actually plays draft with the sets in their off time and don't really play constructed and it's kind of shown in how they tried to put together sets over the last few years. This caused a lot of problems recently, such as a remarkable number of unplayable cards along with some just punching way over their weight in constructed such as Smuggler's Copter. The other part of the problem is that wizards of the coast changed how they did card distribution a few years ago and pulled cards that see high demand from secondary products, with the excuse being they did it so that casual players could buy them. My own thoughts are that they did this to sell masters sets, which has created massive supply problems on major spotlight cards such as Tarmogoyf, Fetch lands, and other such cards for ages that just haven't been rectified.
The thing is the game is played by people in many different ways and all the players draw from the same pool of cards. Because of the massive price discrepancy on cards that get played in modern specifically, this has locked out a lot of rather good build around cards in regards to players who didn't get on board during standard. Right now I'm watching the same situation start all over again with Collective Brutality, and that card probably wont see a reprint until masters 2027 unless WoTC is finally changing their policy and reprinting these in other sets.
Now if people still complain after prices on zen fetches are in the 10-30 usd range or Snapcaster Mage costs 25 dollars a pop, that's more a personal bemoaning of ones financial situation. A booster box of standard is 120 msrp and that's probably a fair price to pay for basically four of a highly desired card. The problem is they are distributing cards in a way that is never going to get the prices under control. Right now the best they are doing is making investors want to jump ship and make players who own the cards have to play the speculator / MTG finance game to get even a decent deal on anything. Just look at how big of a window someone had to get zen fetches with the last masters set: They didn't even drop enough to hit the "buy" zone for most players. Maybe on this forum it hit a bunch of people, but that's because the people here already kind of know how this game ends up playing out.
Basically, WoTC sort of leaves the MTG market to eat itself, while the group in charge of pokemon is avoiding that issue by setting a cap on any of the big name cards.
Isn't that just another reason why they should focus on making standard better?
Not everyone has to play modern, and I would argue that not everyone should play modern. The fact of the past two years has been that standard has been a trash format that most people don't want to play. Given a constant player base, if you have more people playing standard, then the demand (and thus prices) for modern go down, making things like Zendikar fetches and key format staples cheaper.
There seems to be this idea that is almost universal on this thread that the way to make magic better is to make modern cheaper. Sure, maybe for some people individually, but looking at the game as a whole, what Wizards needs to do is make standard a more desirable format to play. If this were to happen then prices may organically decrease on modern staples.
My argument is that I want to see everything get better. A healthy standard will help modern as much as modern can help standard. The reason modern is so expensive is partially because of changes to standard and these changes are also why many have sworn off standard entirely. If people could get to use modern powered cards in a more limited environment (read managed and balanced), that would be a big first step, which is why I'm very much for setting caps on card prices. They can't use Engineered Explosives in standard if the card is costing 50+ usd on the market when the set goes to pre-order.
This is where I think Wizards shouldn't take card prices into consideration when designing sets. I don't think there needs to be a price cap, but I don't think wizards should decide to not reprint a card due to price.
Reading through some of the posts in this thread there seems to be a very common trend. Everyone (almost everyone) is complaining about the price of playing magic.
I think this argument has mostly referred to modern and eternal formats, but I don't think lowering the price of playing modern/legacy is what is going to make magic a better game. The large price of buying a modern or legacy deck to me seems to be more so an indicator that magic isn't in a horrible spot given the demand exists to create those prices.
What is going to make magic a healthier game is likely focusing more on standard. In the past wizards printed cards without really thinking or caring about the impact on other formats. Now when printing cards they're keeping multiple formats in mind such as edh and modern.
For magic to be a healthier game, wizards should pay a little less mind to other formats. Their watchful eye on how their printings affect other formats has kept the complexity of standard very low, and as a result has diminished the quality of gameplay and reduced diversity within the format.
More complexity in standard at lower rarity levels addresses two issues. It adds more depth to the standard format making for more interesting gameplay. It also helps address price concerns within the flagship format by printing more commons and uncommons that will see tournament play.
This goes directly against wizards' New World Order, but I think New World Order was a mistake to begin with. Sure there is a balance to be struck, but as it stands, standard is neither an engaging format nor a fun one.
The key to magic's long term success is through making standard enjoyable. This might mean enabling more archetypes to be powerful, it might mean printing land destruction again, and it could be just printing more complex cards. Making standard better should be the number one priority as that is always a big source of Wizard's revenue. Ensuring that Magic is profitable for the company producing it is what will increase magic's longevity.
The problem is that the prices are not just a factor of demand, but how the cards are being printed and distributed. There's basically two sides to the entire "how to make magic better" ordeal. The first is to get the game design back on track so people can actually enjoy standard again. A fact I've come across multiple times is that the design team actually plays draft with the sets in their off time and don't really play constructed and it's kind of shown in how they tried to put together sets over the last few years. This caused a lot of problems recently, such as a remarkable number of unplayable cards along with some just punching way over their weight in constructed such as Smuggler's Copter. The other part of the problem is that wizards of the coast changed how they did card distribution a few years ago and pulled cards that see high demand from secondary products, with the excuse being they did it so that casual players could buy them. My own thoughts are that they did this to sell masters sets, which has created massive supply problems on major spotlight cards such as Tarmogoyf, Fetch lands, and other such cards for ages that just haven't been rectified.
The thing is the game is played by people in many different ways and all the players draw from the same pool of cards. Because of the massive price discrepancy on cards that get played in modern specifically, this has locked out a lot of rather good build around cards in regards to players who didn't get on board during standard. Right now I'm watching the same situation start all over again with Collective Brutality, and that card probably wont see a reprint until masters 2027 unless WoTC is finally changing their policy and reprinting these in other sets.
Now if people still complain after prices on zen fetches are in the 10-30 usd range or Snapcaster Mage costs 25 dollars a pop, that's more a personal bemoaning of ones financial situation. A booster box of standard is 120 msrp and that's probably a fair price to pay for basically four of a highly desired card. The problem is they are distributing cards in a way that is never going to get the prices under control. Right now the best they are doing is making investors want to jump ship and make players who own the cards have to play the speculator / MTG finance game to get even a decent deal on anything. Just look at how big of a window someone had to get zen fetches with the last masters set: They didn't even drop enough to hit the "buy" zone for most players. Maybe on this forum it hit a bunch of people, but that's because the people here already kind of know how this game ends up playing out.
Basically, WoTC sort of leaves the MTG market to eat itself, while the group in charge of pokemon is avoiding that issue by setting a cap on any of the big name cards.
Isn't that just another reason why they should focus on making standard better?
Not everyone has to play modern, and I would argue that not everyone should play modern. The fact of the past two years has been that standard has been a trash format that most people don't want to play. Given a constant player base, if you have more people playing standard, then the demand (and thus prices) for modern go down, making things like Zendikar fetches and key format staples cheaper.
There seems to be this idea that is almost universal on this thread that the way to make magic better is to make modern cheaper. Sure, maybe for some people individually, but looking at the game as a whole, what Wizards needs to do is make standard a more desirable format to play. If this were to happen then prices may organically decrease on modern staples.
Reading through some of the posts in this thread there seems to be a very common trend. Everyone (almost everyone) is complaining about the price of playing magic.
I think this argument has mostly referred to modern and eternal formats, but I don't think lowering the price of playing modern/legacy is what is going to make magic a better game. The large price of buying a modern or legacy deck to me seems to be more so an indicator that magic isn't in a horrible spot given the demand exists to create those prices.
What is going to make magic a healthier game is likely focusing more on standard. In the past wizards printed cards without really thinking or caring about the impact on other formats. Now when printing cards they're keeping multiple formats in mind such as edh and modern.
For magic to be a healthier game, wizards should pay a little less mind to other formats. Their watchful eye on how their printings affect other formats has kept the complexity of standard very low, and as a result has diminished the quality of gameplay and reduced diversity within the format.
More complexity in standard at lower rarity levels addresses two issues. It adds more depth to the standard format making for more interesting gameplay. It also helps address price concerns within the flagship format by printing more commons and uncommons that will see tournament play.
This goes directly against wizards' New World Order, but I think New World Order was a mistake to begin with. Sure there is a balance to be struck, but as it stands, standard is neither an engaging format nor a fun one.
The key to magic's long term success is through making standard enjoyable. This might mean enabling more archetypes to be powerful, it might mean printing land destruction again, and it could be just printing more complex cards. Making standard better should be the number one priority as that is always a big source of Wizard's revenue. Ensuring that Magic is profitable for the company producing it is what will increase magic's longevity.
Considering there is real cost for people here. I cannot imagine they are able to turn off the lights, without compensation.
Incorrect. Trading card games are discontinued all the time, and online games often eventually lose server access, effectively killing the game. Even if microtransactions are involved, even if there is an economy of items for the playerbase, the terms of service does not protect you from this. At the risk of getting flamed, the fact that WOTC could deactivate Jeremy's account without any sort of compensation for his collection is proof that WOTC is under zero obligation to do so with anyone.
WOTC could, out of the kindness of their hearts, absolutely. But you shouldn't plan on it. It would be a massive cost, and WOTC knows the average player will grumble and play along.
I think you are simply assuming the worst with no real evidence here. What happened with Jeremy is a completely different situation (and better not be discussed here).
WOTC is actually at a completely new and unique position, as no other online card game collection system ever costed as much as MTGO does to the players. Yes, people have previously invested in skins, game time, etc. but this is simply different.
If they would simply turn of the system one day, that would have a large impact not only to the MTGO players but to their whole player base. It will show that it is a company that doesn't care and give no outs to their player base. In addition, if we accept that magic is in a decline (I personally disagree), then getting SUCH a bad publicity would simply be the nail in the coffin.
I don't think wizards will ever stop the support for eternal formats. The market is just too big for them to do that. Maybe it will take time, maybe they will simply restructure how eternal formats work and what cards are allowed, but eventually something will come up, if the company continues to exist.
I don't think we should "plan" on something exactly, as you say. But, I think, we can be certain, that wizards will give some outs to the player base. Whether they will be good or bad remains to be seen, but there won't be a day where servers close with no notification and all players lose everything.
Always good to keep certain topics taboo, might interrupt someone's "safe space." Companies, especially game companies, make decisions all the time that adversely affect their playerbase. EA isn't bankrupt. As for eternal format support, I am simply referring to MTGO. If WOTC wanted to shut MTGO down in favor of Arena, they could. There is zero legal defense to it. Once it's over, it's over, and if you had $10K in assets when they pull the plug, oh well.
My point? Don't trust WOTC. They don't deserve it.
I think his point is a little bit more nuanced than what you’re addressing. Wotc/magic and EA are very different. Ea licenses games and continues to push out new ones, Magic is one game. Magic continues on and keeps on getting more sets and continues to exist as an actively played game. If wotc drops the curtains on mtgo those players aren’t then going to move on to the next wotc game, they’re going to stop playing magic and will no longer be customers of wotc. Doing so comes at a huge cost to wotc and if they were planning on doing that they will likely have some way of porting those players into different magic based product.
Is it just me or is the meta super hard to beat with GDs now? Ive played GDS for about 6 months and am not a pro at it or anything, but I feel like my time learning the deck has not payed off. Its just so frustrating to play when im constantly either flooding or having 1 land only and can tripping into no threats. This last week ive played about 6-7 leagues doing no better than 3-2 in all the games, and played 2 tournaments going 2-4 both times..... Has anyone here just had a moment where the deck clicked and their win rate increased a lot? not sure If I should keep trying or just switch decks at this point.
I think you've experienced a very high rate of variance, which happens from time to time. My suggestion would be to play something else for a tournament or two and return to the deck later.
It just so happens that that kind of deck isn't all that great in Modern right now. I'm still waiting for the top decks to shift away from ETron/Storm/Titanshift/GDS.
You may be waiting a while, modern seems to have finally settled into a stable equilibrium
Thanks for the reply. I considered posting there, but I noticed the discussion was generally Jund-centric. I'll consult that thread as well.
So the idea is basically to keep your Watery Grave protected until it's absolutely necessary to counter a spell, rather than fetching for Blue asap and using Stubborn Denial as attrition (assuming you're concerned about GQ). This makes sense. It just seems like a huge risk, because a single LD effect can blank up to 8 cards in the deck. D:
That is the tradeoff for trying to play 5 colors, and i'm sure it would come up against eldrazi tron and UWx control
I don't think this argument is synonymous with the end result I suggested. This argument is to use new sets to print cards for existing archetypes in older formats that have no impact in standard. What this does is decrease Wizards' demand for standard game play and likely decrease the longevity of magic's success. Wizards does actually need to make money from the game for magic to exist and the best way to do that is by ensuring that standard is fun to play, is interesting and can appeal to both new and enfranchised players. Something it has severely lacked in recent years.
This is where I think Wizards shouldn't take card prices into consideration when designing sets. I don't think there needs to be a price cap, but I don't think wizards should decide to not reprint a card due to price.
Isn't that just another reason why they should focus on making standard better?
Not everyone has to play modern, and I would argue that not everyone should play modern. The fact of the past two years has been that standard has been a trash format that most people don't want to play. Given a constant player base, if you have more people playing standard, then the demand (and thus prices) for modern go down, making things like Zendikar fetches and key format staples cheaper.
There seems to be this idea that is almost universal on this thread that the way to make magic better is to make modern cheaper. Sure, maybe for some people individually, but looking at the game as a whole, what Wizards needs to do is make standard a more desirable format to play. If this were to happen then prices may organically decrease on modern staples.
I think this argument has mostly referred to modern and eternal formats, but I don't think lowering the price of playing modern/legacy is what is going to make magic a better game. The large price of buying a modern or legacy deck to me seems to be more so an indicator that magic isn't in a horrible spot given the demand exists to create those prices.
What is going to make magic a healthier game is likely focusing more on standard. In the past wizards printed cards without really thinking or caring about the impact on other formats. Now when printing cards they're keeping multiple formats in mind such as edh and modern.
For magic to be a healthier game, wizards should pay a little less mind to other formats. Their watchful eye on how their printings affect other formats has kept the complexity of standard very low, and as a result has diminished the quality of gameplay and reduced diversity within the format.
More complexity in standard at lower rarity levels addresses two issues. It adds more depth to the standard format making for more interesting gameplay. It also helps address price concerns within the flagship format by printing more commons and uncommons that will see tournament play.
This goes directly against wizards' New World Order, but I think New World Order was a mistake to begin with. Sure there is a balance to be struck, but as it stands, standard is neither an engaging format nor a fun one.
The key to magic's long term success is through making standard enjoyable. This might mean enabling more archetypes to be powerful, it might mean printing land destruction again, and it could be just printing more complex cards. Making standard better should be the number one priority as that is always a big source of Wizard's revenue. Ensuring that Magic is profitable for the company producing it is what will increase magic's longevity.
ehhh, I think wasteland would have a far bigger impact than any recent printing or ban/unban
other than drastically redefining the whole Modern format...
I think his point is a little bit more nuanced than what you’re addressing. Wotc/magic and EA are very different. Ea licenses games and continues to push out new ones, Magic is one game. Magic continues on and keeps on getting more sets and continues to exist as an actively played game. If wotc drops the curtains on mtgo those players aren’t then going to move on to the next wotc game, they’re going to stop playing magic and will no longer be customers of wotc. Doing so comes at a huge cost to wotc and if they were planning on doing that they will likely have some way of porting those players into different magic based product.
I think you've experienced a very high rate of variance, which happens from time to time. My suggestion would be to play something else for a tournament or two and return to the deck later.
You may be waiting a while, modern seems to have finally settled into a stable equilibrium
A meta full of 19 dredge decks and his
That is the tradeoff for trying to play 5 colors, and i'm sure it would come up against eldrazi tron and UWx control