MTG Salvation

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Hey guys. I stepped out for a while. Sold a lot of my collection, but mostly the less cool parts. Now I'm actively collecting again in preparation for my next book. Anyways, I thought you might like to see what I've been working on. Also, sorry for the potato pics. The charger for my real camera is busted until next week.

Here's my Forest test print collection progress:

And since we are showing off tokens, here are my JinHes and Minagishis (the duplicates have different backs):

I'm on the fence about this one. I have seen both real cards and fakes that appear similar, at least at a glance. The black is light and blotchy but not dithered. Cards of this era had trouble with the ink viscosity due to humidity, causing some to be printed too light and some too dark, especially with Visions. The dot pattern from the background extends under the black text meaning that it was made with a multi-step process. So if it is a fake, it was likely done with high-end equipment but that would mean that the whole card was faked rather than it being a blanked card. I also doubt it's a coating issue.

The dot pattern under the black is what convinces me that it's not laser printed. I'm actually more inclined to say factory error; that the top black layer didn't properly adhere. Of course I can't say for sure without better scans or seeing it in person.

Quote from Quacker »

You're only assuming that the LGS is lying.

This is a valid point. I should have said "If the owner is telling people that there is a product shortage when there isn't one, that is dishonest." That is the entire point of that post boiled down to one sentence. Maybe there is a regional scarcity. I don't know. I did ask my distributor about this specifically. They said that it is moving at a good pace but there is no shortage. They can get as much as they want from WotC, and we can get as much as we want from them.

I am not a LGS owner but I have a strong distaste for witch hunts, which this post was from the get-go.

As has been mentioned, if OP had named the store then I might agree with you. We currently don't even know what country it resides in, so I don't see how this thread is trying to bully them. I do work in a LGS and it could be my store for all I know.

where does the "unfair pricing" end? A shop opens up and offers packs for $3.25. Will Hunter go back and scold the owner of the LGS selling packs for $3.75?

This is the strawman I was trying to kill with my last post. Nobody is saying that the price point is unfair. They could charge $100 per pack and it would be fine (if weird). Lying to customers is the part that people have a problem with and the question at hand.

Hey Hunter, why don't you tell us the problems you have had with how the LGS owner runs things. That sentence is so arrogant it takes my breath away.

Are you upset that OP had the audacity to question whether his LGS was lying to him? That's a bold stance.

You're acting as if the thread said "Never go to this shop at this address because they cheat people with their high prices", but that's not what happened. The shop owner said something that sounded shady so OP created a poll to see if it was legit. Could we please lay the price point and the moral outrage to rest and debate the question asked. "Is there a shortage of Battle for Zendikar booster packs like some shop owner told some guy?"
To reiterate my answer: Possibly, but not according to my distributor.

"False scarcity" was the incorrect term, but the question seemed clear to me. It wasn't whether it was the shop's prerogative to charge whatever they like, which it absolutely is, but whether their pricing is honest. The owner wants to charge more than MSRP? That is fine. That's just business. The owner is telling people that there is a product shortage when there isn't one? That is not fine. That is lying to try and trick people into purchasing at an inflated price. Yes, buyer beware and all that, but that doesn't change that this practice is dishonest.

Just my experience.

I work at a LGS and do the ordering for MTG. BFZ is not selling any faster than other sets to players. Shops and speculators are cracking tons if it though neither of these demographics are purchasing it through a FLGS.
We can currently order as much BFZ as we want and both of our distributors have no shortages of booster boxes.
If we were hurting for BFZ and had the cash, I could put another 10 cases in our shop by lunchtime.

I've handled a few of their cards so I'll give some impressions. The Italian operation has been around for about a year that I have seen. They are smaller and generally less quality than the current Chinese fakes. If you look at their feedback, you can see that they are still making errors such as cutting cards to the wrong size and using non-water proof ink on their borders.

Most fail the look at it from across the room test. The printing is completely wrong. The color is oversaturated and mottled. The surfaces have a wrong "feel" to them. Some are worse than others but none are convincing up close. Even if you have never seen a real beta card, these look and feel wrong. Their dual lands are higher quality but still not great.

Also, they are in fact not overprints but manufactured cards. That being said, they are using a similar card stock and do pass the bend test (which should never be done anyways). Other sellers on etsy are overprinting, but those are even worse. They have been previously reported for counterfeiting but nothing happened.

I went through all the steps to insure my collection but never pulled the trigger because of cost.

My regular insurance company would cover collectibles but only to an extent without it being listed and itemized specifically on the agreement. So if my house burned down, I would have to report their destruction, prove I owned them, prove their value (not an easy feat), and after all that I think the maximum payout would be like $1000. They didn't allow riders for collectible cards specifically but were able to direct me to one of the few companies that would.

Then I had to have my collection appraised by an impartial authority. There are not a lot of entities which are both considered authorities and who are willing to do this. Due to the sheer size of my collection, over 90% of it was valued at a bulk rate, something like $5 per 1000 cards. Anything under about $20 wasn't worth my time to separate out. All items $200 or over had to be individually documented and photographed. Additionally, I would have to report any changes in the collection on an annual basis to keep my coverage. The going rate for insuring a collectible of this nature is 1% of the value of the collection per year. So, if your collection is valued at $100,000, the annual cost would be $1000 collected as monthly $84 payments.

At least this is my personal experience here in California. YMMV.

As described, I don't buy the narrative that these two completely innocent sisters were driven away by the horrible spikes. When their mistake was pointed out, if they had either admitted it or called a judge for clarification, would a "shouting match" have ensued? No; and it takes two to have a shouting match. Scooping and leaving when you don't get your way isn't very sportsmanlike behavior either. Even in the description of the situation, as is, the only thing the spikes did wrong was to allow a disagreement to turn into an argument before calling a judge, which the sisters also did. In their shoes, I wouldn't have allowed a do-over either, and I usually play casual.

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Just as an announcement for everyone, the reason this is going up on April 1 is for plausible deniability. This list has been cut with some intentionally false cards to help hide our source's identity—the list we received was from a preliminary file and may not represent the final product, and as such posting the specific version we received could lead to legal action if we don't handle this carefully. However, I can confirm that the bulk of this list is accurate. We were always ready for the "lol April Fool's" thing, so I'm just posting this as a heads-up that it's a bit more than that.

**EDIT: This is a necro'd thread from 2 years ago. I necro'd it with post #91. You can go there if you want to see the update and more recent discussion. What follows in this post is my original unedited post.**

I am a logical person. I believe that you can think rationally and intelligently about almost anything and come up with a good solution. If you don't want to read the entire post, I thought long and hard and realized that the positives of continuing to play don't outweigh the negatives.

Some background: I am a 34 year-old married physician with 5 children ages 8, 6, 5, 2 and 10 months. I started playing Magic at age 30 and have spent around $15,000 on cards which are now worth about $30,000 according to the link in my signature. I am an obsessive person and have become overly obsessed with Magic. My wife hates Magic (probably more because of my obsession and my having $30,000 worth of cards than an inherent dislike of the game) and would love for me to quit but respects that I love playing. My oldest 4 kids are all boys and my oldest 3 will play with me but are more into video games currently. I have always been a gamer, mostly video games and then D&D and now Magic (I rarely play the others now).

Here is the conversation that prompted my self-reflection that led to my decision. This happened on Cockatrice.
Opponent (when I was countering everything and beating him down with Delver) - "Nice f***ing God hand"
Me (later when I was losing after drawing my 6th land in a row and watching his Liliana tick up) - "That God hand isn't looking so good now."
Opponent - "That's because my deck is better."
Me - "You're at a place in your life where you enjoy trash talking over the internet about a card game to someone you don't know?"
Opponent - *leaves the game*

Although I thought I'd come up with a pretty good comeback, it didn't feel good. It started to make me realize how often I don't feel better after competing in Magic tournaments. If I play someone who is a jerk, I don't enjoy it, win or lose. If I lose, I don't really enjoy it. If I play someone who is nice and I win, I feel bad.

Then I started thinking about other things.

When I lived in a large city, there were lots of Magic tournaments. There were constant EDH games to get into, 4-5 Standard tournaments per week, 3-4 Limited tournaments per week, 2 Legacy tournaments per week, even 2 Vintage tournaments per year. I always felt kind of blah about the tournament, even if I'd done well (which I typically did not, except in Legacy). Regardless, it was only a few hours wasted and a short drive to be back at home. Now I live in a small town where there is a decent amount of EDH, weekly Standard and monthly Modern. I don't really get to play the formats I love (Legacy and Vintage) except on Cockatrice, which is too often a miserable experience.

I have a huge collection and was working towards getting a complete Legacy and Vintage collection. Why keep this when there isn't anyone around to play with?
I had two reasons for this:
1. I planned to travel to tournaments (Leg/Vin Championships, SCG Open, Legacy Grand Prix, Bazaar of Moxen) at some point in the future. Honestly, however, I would prefer to spend my vacation time and money on something else because I would more than likely not win the tournament (or even top 8) and instead of a few hours, I'd have wasted an entire weekend and lots of money. Plus, when was I really going to do this? My life isn't going to slow down until I'm retired.
2. I hoped my boys(kids?) would get into it and go to tournaments with me. The problem here is that that might not actually be that good for them. Getting into a nerdy game as a kid might not really be what's best for them. When I got into the game I was already a solid adult and it has changed me for the worse. What would it do to a kid trying to figure out who they are? Also, if I am so obsessed with the game that it takes me away from them, they might just learn to hate it as much as my wife.

So if I am questioning whether this is good for my kids, shouldn't I question whether it is good for me? I feel that everyone needs a hobby and I love to play Magic but does it really improve me? The way I gauge that is to think about being 20 years in the future and imagine if I will wish I'd play more Magic. The answer is "heck no!" In high school and college I was very athletic and played nerd games. As I have gotten older and responsibilities have mounted, I've left behind most of the athletics and only play Magic in my reduced free time.

Then it hit me: I'M WASTING MY TIME and there are few things more precious than time. I should be spending my time eating, sleeping, working, developing meaningful relationships or improving myself. If my hobby also does one of these, then it is never a waste of time.

My dad got me a Fender Stratocaster for my birthday recently so I'll be learning to play that, playing basketball with my kids, trying to improve my business/clinic and lifting weights more regularly as my hobbies now.

If you see any of yourself in what I have said here, I implore you to think about if quitting Magic is what's best for you. May you find a hobby that you find enjoyable and enriching.

So what am I doing with the cards? My wife and I discussed this. I initially was going to sell them because it is a lot of money and I really shouldn't have access to them. Then I realized that there is a chance I would regret that some day (as I have talked to many people that did just that and did regret it later) and that they may go up even more in value and I don't really need the money right now. I have instead decided to put them into bins and put them into storage, ALL OF THEM. I will think about selling them again in a year when I see what prices have done and how I feel about that decision at that time.

Thanks for reading if you got to here. I will probably check comments on this thread until they stop and then I will leave this site as well. I thought about trying to get banned but that shouldn't be necessary.

Finally got something new to show.

My 16th completely signed set: Exodus

Here are the pictures

My Alpha set:
















v

The Vamp looks like it's a laser printed copy on a acetoned card. The blacks are all non-solid, even on the card text, which is a mark of inferior printing technology. The other colors also are missing some dots, which to plain eye gives a faded look to the card. I believe the card to be a fake. Even the lighter prints have solid colors, not this 'my scanner and printer thinks this is black'-quality. The backside looks relatively good (there's still some white dots in the black borders, but not nearly as much as on the front) compared to the front, so I doubt that it's home printed, which is why I say the front was acetoned/erased.

Just to comment on the IA card, while the sets were released only bit over a year apart, the quality of IA cards was notoriously bad, as can be seen from the backside scan... There's even 'blue bordered' IA cards, as the the ink used on one batch was really grey/blue, which faded pretty fast.

There's a tiny possibility that the card had received the final coating before the front being actually printed, but the result looks bit too much like a homemade 'proxy' than the few examples I have seen on double printed cards of the effect of the coating, so I doubt that. If the card is home printed it will most likely not handle a drop of water the same way as a real card would, so there's one test you can make easily, or just rub it with a damp paper towel and check if the black ink comes off easily. If the card is home made and sealed with varnish the card might feel off when in your hand. Either too smooth or too rough.

Hopefully this helps a bit.

Magic cards are printed in four stages and if the print sheet or the machines are slightly off, the pattern on the cards are altered. The differences you have are within the normal range of revised cards and if everything else is OK, the cards are real. The secon pic you have is the regular version, when everything is set nicely, so you should check the cards against each other and if you find more differences then there's a good chance that the first one is a fake.

The best ways to check are to look at larger details (if that makes any sense): The mana symbols have different dithering than the rest of the card (but move in the blue ink will mess that up a bit too, so be careful to not jump into conclusions) and the solid black lines around the art-box and at the borders. The third one is the artist info, but again if one of the print layers has shifted, that will cause some differences.

The backside is also one place to note a fake. Card backs are printed in different step of the production (Backs were printed first), so the different dithering should not affect the back, unless it was a printer calibration mistake, that caused the problems. Again there are some details on the card back that are easy to compare and most fakes have problems with longer solid lines.

You should also do the light test and compare how the cards feel in your hands. Several of the chinese fakes were bit slicker and felt smoother than regular cards, but again revised is 20 years old, so any playwer and dirt will make the cards feel different too.

If you can post minimum of 300 dpi (preferably 600 dpi) scans of the fronts and backs, people can give you better answers on the authenticity of the Seas, with small pictures, I can only confirm that differnet dot patters do excist, but hopefully even that helps a bit.

Real cards can also have color of differences, but as Savage mentioned, those pics are not good enough for any authentication. The light is uneven on the cards, one half of the pic is unfocused and the detail levels are not enough to actually tell anything about the print quality.

I know that some versions of Dark Confidants have been on the chinese fake sheets, but I cannot remember if it was the Rav or the MMa version (or both). I wouls google search for the lists and check. If one is not on the lists, it would make me bit more sure about those (but I would still check them. I'm somewhat cautious.)

If you want a reasonable verification of authenticity, you should either bring the cards to somebody who knows how to do the checks or get at minimum 300 dpi scans of the cards and upload the files of both front and back somwhere, where people can actually see them. If you have copies that you are certain are real, having a real one in the scans will make the comparing much easier, as the cards will be the same size, which makes it much easier to compare font sizes.

The fast way to note if the cards are from the first few printings of chinese fakes is to check the black borders really close (or with magnification). If there's any off-color print dots, they are fakes. Real MtG cards borders are solid black (As are some fakes too, but many aren't). If the borders are solid, do the light test. Shine a bright light through the cards one by one and compare to a real card. I usually use the text box area for this, as it's easy to compare to any card of the same color, if I don't have a certainly real copy of the card in question on hand. All cards that are not damaged allow similar amounts of light through. Also lot of the fakes feel too slippery or too thin or just not like real MtG cards. Just notice that the different versions can also feel diffeent, as the cardstock and inks have changed a bit over time.

And if you cannot be certain and are not able to get somebody who knows how to really spot fakes to help, then pass the offer. But generally spotting fakes is relatively easy if you just take some time to learn what to look for and take note of details. Any player who can win control-mirrors should be able to learn...

In light of the hilarious decision to call 'manlands' 'creature lands', I was wondering what other possible names and keywords in magic need to be changed in order to make the game 'more inclusive'. Obviously the first thing we need to do is rename the colors of magic. We can't have 'white' associated with organization and healing (good things) while 'black' is associated with Death and ambition (bad things). This is obviously indicative of the unconscious racial bias present in the game of MTG. All the colors are problemeatic really. We just need to replace the color pie with shades of infrared for maximum inclusivity. White can become 'IR-1', blue 'IR-2', etc. Please note that these are not placeholder names. Only by identifying colors by number can we remove all potential bias. Except now we have a history of 'colors' and are now associating White with the number 1. This is clearly unacceptable, as well. What is the solution people? How can we fix the problematic color system? What other 'problems' in mtg can our progressive minds solve?