I've been looking with the DKA spoilers and I like where token strategies are really going now. I've thought of an idea of having a B/W Tokens deck for current standard. Here's my first draft of it:
Don't know how to say this properly; but, Delver was in the Illusions deck, not vice-versa. From the flavor of this forum till now, there was an avoidance of Image. I get the discussion point, but that is more for Illusions - Budget, not Budget Delver. Let alone 'ver budget'.
Thanks for the info. I'm really sorry if I've mistaken it as such. Anyways, back to the discussion of the thread. Is anyone using Cackling Counterpart?
@Thamoo - Barrier's worth a try! I really demands a single slot in my deck for saving my butt multiple times already.
I agree with Thamoo's argument. The dagger/stalker package is simply holding the deck from unleashing it's fullest potential. That's what my Phantasmal Bears are saying on my playtests with the new version.
UW control is actually really easy. T1 delver or phantasmal bear into countering their awnsers all day (bring 4 negate for g2-3). A countered oblivion ring dosn't kill phantasmal bear so they have a really rough time dealing with our early threats.
UB control is harder since they have some good spot-removal, fortunatly nobody plays UB control in my meta since UW is better overall.
As far as other matchup goes, RDW and grixis control dominates us real hard but otherwise we have pretty fair matchups across the board. Wolf run is especially easy if they don't draw into their galvanic blasts.
I find the dagger/stalker package helps a good deal in our problem matchup (aka everything with spot removal), but it dosn't help enough and they still roll us pretty easily. The slightly better fighting chance against the problem deck isn't worth the loss of consistancy/power the phantasmal bear plan brings.
I see. Those were nice insights. But, did you like your 24 land count on your tests?
I think dropping the dissipates for 3 Negates and 1 Psychic Barrier (Or whatever floats your boat on the split) will help you fight Grixis Control, or even RDW to protect you from having your delver fried all day. Although they were a bit conditional and will conflict on your curve, those two mana counterspells will really help in my opinion.
After playtesting for about 2 weeks variation of this archetype. I can say that the dagger/stalker package is really slowing the deck down.
4x delver + 4x phantasmal bear + 2-3 azure mage (or snapcaster if you can) + 2-3 adept + ton of counterspell/bounce/ponder makes for a much stronger deck.
Its more scary to pilot since you have no backup plan that randomly win the game a good deal of time. But overall the sheer power of the main plan more than makes up for it. Much better results against everything but RDW (4x flashfreeze and 3x stiched drake in the side helps the matchup a bit)
Can I see your list?
In your playtests, how do you fare against control? I really liked owning control decks with my Daggered Stalker (Practically my only way to win against them). I've realize the same thing too, wished that the equipments were creatures instead.
So i decided to run this deck what do you guys think about running grand architect for the +1 and mana to equip the artifacts?
I think the Architect doesn't have any synergy with the deck at all (Except from the overkill factor, though.). I'd rather have an Aether Adept, or a Trinket Mage as my creatures and keep my instant/sorcery count high to be able to flip Delver at high chances.
I have the same insights about Hoard-Smelter Dragon. I wish he was an Inferno Titan or anything if it weren't because of budget issues. Replaced it with a Vandal or Scrapmelter instead.
Ideally you'd want a Delver and Ponder in your opening hand, but having a stalker is just as well. From there its just a matter of getting them equipped and swinging in for the beat; all the while gaining much hate from your opponent for seemingly endless bounce and counters. (I've had many scoop after t3 cause we have so many answers to keep their side of the board clear)
The creature package doesn't really change much, but the enablers such as equipment and control help them get in and hit hard; most of which should be tailored to your meta.
I think its a bit aggro & control. With Stalker, he can really get the beats in pretty quick when equipped; which isn't difficult to accomplish, especially if you can equip him more than once.
I've found my budget build to do pretty well against many of the upper tier competitive decks; including the non-budget Delver builds.
... just my 2 mana's worth
May I ask how does the deck fare with control? My meta is full of control, so I might just ask too. (:
I've been thinking to sleeve up a Mono-blue Delver deck. How one should be playing the deck? Should it be played aggressively or playing certain cards must have a precise timing?
The attacking creature is still considered to be blocked and when the relevant combat damage step rolls round if it does not have trample it will not assign or deal any damage.
I see. So if the creature Argent Sphinx blocked does not have trample, I or my planeswalker will receive no damage at all? And if it has trample, damage goes through?
4 Skirsdag High Priest
3 Bloodline Keeper
2 Geist-Honored Monk
4 Shrine of Loyal Legions
4 Midnight Haunting
4 Altar's Reap
4 Doom Blade
4 Oblivion Ring
Ideas? Suggestions? Thanks in advance.
-3 Intangible Virtue
+2 Gitaxian Probe
+1 Dissipate
Thanks for the info. I'm really sorry if I've mistaken it as such. Anyways, back to the discussion of the thread. Is anyone using Cackling Counterpart?
I agree with Thamoo's argument. The dagger/stalker package is simply holding the deck from unleashing it's fullest potential. That's what my Phantasmal Bears are saying on my playtests with the new version.
I really like the idea of having the Illusion core in a Delver deck, and the drakes too!
I see. Those were nice insights. But, did you like your 24 land count on your tests?
I think dropping the dissipates for 3 Negates and 1 Psychic Barrier (Or whatever floats your boat on the split) will help you fight Grixis Control, or even RDW to protect you from having your delver fried all day. Although they were a bit conditional and will conflict on your curve, those two mana counterspells will really help in my opinion.
Can I see your list?
In your playtests, how do you fare against control? I really liked owning control decks with my Daggered Stalker (Practically my only way to win against them). I've realize the same thing too, wished that the equipments were creatures instead.
I think the Architect doesn't have any synergy with the deck at all (Except from the overkill factor, though.). I'd rather have an Aether Adept, or a Trinket Mage as my creatures and keep my instant/sorcery count high to be able to flip Delver at high chances.
May I ask how does the deck fare with control? My meta is full of control, so I might just ask too. (:
I see. So if the creature Argent Sphinx blocked does not have trample, I or my planeswalker will receive no damage at all? And if it has trample, damage goes through?