So I bought a cheap playset of Inquisition of Kozilek, and rummaged through my stuff for copies of Duress. Preemptive disruption might be the better idea than reactive protection. Which brings me to point three...
B/U's, like, "what blockers? Imma just fly over here..."
That is a extremely solid list. Very well built.
Any thoughts on main decking hand disruption, or do you feel its only necessary against the U/W matchup?
Also, any testing against the Ramp decks, or are those in your opinion auto-wins?
An honest question, how many creatures are played after turn four?
In the abstract, the Hand halts your momentum.
I think we're just on very different wavelengths on what this deck is capable of.
I understand tapping out on turn 5 or 6 gives you an awesome, game ending dragon. But why rely on that?
In my aggro build, dropping a Stinger is the optimum play, yes, but the optimum turn 3 play is double pump with counter mana up. This play is only possible with the Darkslick online. No other dual would suffice. I tend to veer towards fast aggro decks, RDW in T2 and Slivers in pauper, so I'm approaching this archetype with the same mentality: how fast can we make this? I feel it can be quite fast yet still be versatile with the counters made available to us.
@Godzola: ....Tell me how testing turns out... your deck seems bad being that there are no hands, no skittles, uses vector, uses necropede main, darkslick shores, only 3 leaks with 4 turn asides, tainted strike with no tar pit, bite over swipe (tho thats still considered personal choice I guess)...
...I'm not trying to use your post as "the loo" but, there has been extensive talk about cards you need and must have in a B/U poison build to be successful and what cards you should never have. Darkslick shores for 1- we're mid game murderers... early game we do zip- you actually have zero relavent turn 1 drops. Vector has been ignored and forgotten of since you need to mana sink into it for it to do anything. Not having hand or skittles seems like a very big no no. Hand and skittles when they hit play- litterally force your opponent to remove them THEN AND NOW or lose. people cant survive skittles for more than 2 turns or maybe even 1- hand causes your threats to practicly triplify. (+1/+1 and additional poison counter on cast).
(Also- yes... hand on turn 5 wins games. hand on turn 4 can win games....)
You're probably right on the Asp. I'll concede that.
But like I said, this is a very different ideological approach to the archetype. This isn't a mid-range build. This is an aggro build. The Darkslick allows for counter mana and pump mana to be available.
All I'm asking is try the fishbowl:
(I realized I put the wrong B instant. I meant Virulent Swipe. Of course the infect one is a horrible choice lol.) http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/EditDeck/14722
I've read most of the deck lists and realized I have a different take on the build, mostly stemming from my conclusion on Lash vs Hand:
They are the same card, effectively, for the deck. You can't run both.
If you want to control the game, Hand is obviously better in the long run.
But Lash... man, Lash makes the deck feel like RDW. Here's my take-
This archetype is going to win if unchecked. The Distortion Strike adds too fast a clock. Thus, I built what I feel best allows that card to work with Infect. We have three one mana pump spells in our colors, the third in Vampire's Bite. It gives us the same level of reach as Giant Growth, without having to splash to get the extra power. While marginal, the kicker has a possibility to matter in some games as well. I propose more lists should consider it.
With 10 pump spells, using the Livewire Lash as a finisher seems more effective than the Hand pumping the team to maybe get through. I usually play the Lash, then wait until the next turn to equip. This leaves mana open for both the pump and the protection counter. With every card combination in the deck, that means at least 6 poison counters. This action would be at turn 5 ideally, so we probably win with this move.
Its not a "cute" deck. It does what it needs to do. To be fair, I've only fishbowled this build. (I don't own any Scars yet :/ poop), but this line of build seems to be the most direct. Yes, Hand optimizes all your plays, implying you're playing after you have it active. One card in two installments will win the game the turn you play it. I haven't done the full permutations, but how often will Hand on turn 5 win you the game?
It all very interesting to think about. Hats off to R&D for such a complex and robust Type 2 format. So many Tier 2 decks right now are doing the same thing we're doing, figuring out what the optimal build should be.
this card is soooooooooo redonkulous.
I saw it, have a hearty chuckle, and just shook my head, muttering under my breath, "It has begun."
and this comment put it over the top.
What can we do if it passes THE SHIVIAN METEOR TEST? days like today make me love magic that much more...
oh, forgot to mention... I mean... why... why is a giant mass of mushrooms Magic's most formidable creature? I've been speechless sense I've seen it.
Granted, I'm snowed in here in Denver listening to chiptune, so I have no reason to talk... that's all besides the point.
now, I didn't read the whole 39 pages (I got up to 12, someone pat me on the back), but did anyone mention how horrible we all are for getting on that guy who probably did actually see an uncut sheet of Rise?
He nailed the Annihilation keyword and ability (he said Annihilate, close enough right? He described it exactly how it is on the card, if I remember correctly.).
I haven't tried, but someone should look that thread up again if we can.
On the card, I laughed out loud. I actually lol'd. Crazy, crazy card with a truly epic preview. Someone's gonna break Eldrazi. Show and Tell seems good
yeah, the card doesn't look "right."
Idk... does it really matter? If infectous Horror isn't played, this wont get played.
Well, maybe pauper, but how many other people other than myself thought of that?
WoW TCG raids were fun (IMO), so this should be interesting.
Looking forward to playing it, but probably won't buy it.
A man only has so much money for shiny cardboard with silly rules for use.
No, it will have reprints of the cards they want to stay in Standard after M10 rotates out. Expect a lot of cards to be reprinted... now that they have the new staples in M10, they probably will do less new cards in M11. They would not do an entirely new Core; it would defeat the purpose of Core Sets altogether.
I agree, just they way they worded it was odd.
That's probably me looking too much into it is all.
but for reals, there's nothing in the announcement to really turn your head other than M10 and M11 in T2 at the same time... which leads you to believe there will be no reprints between them? This is unlikely, but not beyond MTG Staff right now. I expect the unexpected from them these days.
I lol'd for real when I read "Some good blue cards will be printed!"
You can quit whining now! And yes I'm talking to you, cause seems like odds are, you've whined at least once sense LOR rotated that Blue sucks.
But I'm not one to dwell on the negative, how about massively improved Intro Packs? Expect the same "Buy an Intro Pack at the pre-release, play five games, get a free booster!" promotion to be in effect. These changes should move much more intro packs at those events.
Or "This year will feature a summer full of great multiplayer events and activities, headlined by a new format/product that rivals Planechase in sheer awesomeness."-- perhaps actual EDH DCI-sanctioned events, or for less of a stretch, this promised new format? It could be anything!
Or "the Legacy format will debut on Magic Online (albeit a few cards short, for the time being, of the paper format)" which sounds to me like all staple Legacy cards will be released this year?
But, realistically, the best news from this article is the given growth numbers from last year. This can only mean good things for the health of Magic as a whole.
Point of below: I'm considering two different (noobish) decks for a large tournament in two days. Any suggestions welcome.
So on New Year's Eve, a local store (Valhalla in Denver, CO) is hosting an EDH tournament with top prize being a ZEN booster box split across the top table. I'm quite interested in doing well enough to be in on that.
My dilemma is I have two EDH decks I feel have potentially even chances, (a homebrew Mayael and a homebrew Sygg, River Cutthroat) but I'm not sure which to run.
They both have a similar game plan- a very slow, political-minded play style, both "lay low" type decks. Denver has a robust tournament EDH scene (one store even hosts one a month), so I've developed this outlook as my own personal experience. From past results, this virtually guarantees a top three finish on 3-6 player tables if played wisely, but not so much a table win. This is fine; most tournaments I've played advances the top 2 or 3 players. My goal is not to win (I simply do not have the card pool/ money for the decks I want to run to do so, I shamefully admit.), but rather make the final table. I feel both decks could do so, but in very different ways.
(note: I'm not going to post exact deck lists...
idk if I'm actually allowed to. I did read the forum FAQ,
so mods,
if this isn't the place to post something like this,
I'm sorry. I'm just retarded then.)
But I'm not sure if its better than my Sygg build I finished yesterday. An straight forward blue/black counter/kill (12 counters, 10 kill, 3 bounce) with lots of card draw (16, including Sygg). While maintaining the board as discretely as possible, the late game Inkwell Leviathan, Deepchannel Mentor (by itself does nothing, I know), Oona, Queen of the Fae, Dread, Guile, or Kederekt Leviathan (hopefully a combination of two of those, with all the card draw) should be enough to sweep up at least one other player down the stretch. Notable individual cards: Memory Plunder (if I run this deck, I want to do something really stupid with this card at least once.), Wound Reflection, Cumber Stone, Twincast, Wispersilk Cloak, Cloak and Dagger, Stasis Cell, Last Word, Time Stop, Shred Memory. Long-Term Plans is an interesting search I haven't seen used before. And River Kelpie... oh, River Kelpie...there will be cards drawn. 39 lands, all basic except Reliquary Tower, the only no max hand size card i own, sadly.
Goal: try to be as diplomatic as possible while still maintaining the board as i can, when I've drawn a lot and two others players are knocked out, play my own "win" creatures and try to maintain from there.
The problem is I have zero games played with this deck. I don't know how other players will respond to such a strategy (as I would play it) in a tournament environment. Also, the lack of an "I win" combo is slightly unsettling playing a U/B deck. I have to 100% rely on creatures to get through.
A lot of text to say... I don't know which to play.
Any suggestions are welcome.
But, I really can't change the lists. I shouldn't even be paying the 5 dollar entry fee, because I'm that strapped on cash right now. So yes, I know I'm missing good U/B EDH cards that cost 50 cents to 2 dollars, and my Mayael build is "wrong". I simply don't have the resources to build them to where I want them. That's partially why I play the way I do; I know I don't have the same concentration of quality spells most competitive EDH builds have.
All that said, if you read all that, thank you, and again, any comments welcome.
That is a extremely solid list. Very well built.
Any thoughts on main decking hand disruption, or do you feel its only necessary against the U/W matchup?
Also, any testing against the Ramp decks, or are those in your opinion auto-wins?
In the abstract, the Hand halts your momentum.
I think we're just on very different wavelengths on what this deck is capable of.
I understand tapping out on turn 5 or 6 gives you an awesome, game ending dragon. But why rely on that?
In my aggro build, dropping a Stinger is the optimum play, yes, but the optimum turn 3 play is double pump with counter mana up. This play is only possible with the Darkslick online. No other dual would suffice. I tend to veer towards fast aggro decks, RDW in T2 and Slivers in pauper, so I'm approaching this archetype with the same mentality: how fast can we make this? I feel it can be quite fast yet still be versatile with the counters made available to us.
You're probably right on the Asp. I'll concede that.
But like I said, this is a very different ideological approach to the archetype. This isn't a mid-range build. This is an aggro build. The Darkslick allows for counter mana and pump mana to be available.
All I'm asking is try the fishbowl:
(I realized I put the wrong B instant. I meant Virulent Swipe. Of course the infect one is a horrible choice lol.)
http://www.mtgdeckbuilder.net/Decks/EditDeck/14722
They are the same card, effectively, for the deck. You can't run both.
If you want to control the game, Hand is obviously better in the long run.
But Lash... man, Lash makes the deck feel like RDW. Here's my take-
3 Necropede
4 Ichorclaw Myr
4 Plague Stinger
4 Ichor Rats
3 Mana Leak
3 Vampire's Bite
3 Virulent Swipe
4 Distortion Strike
6 Island
8 Swamp
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Drowned Catacombs
This archetype is going to win if unchecked. The Distortion Strike adds too fast a clock. Thus, I built what I feel best allows that card to work with Infect. We have three one mana pump spells in our colors, the third in Vampire's Bite. It gives us the same level of reach as Giant Growth, without having to splash to get the extra power. While marginal, the kicker has a possibility to matter in some games as well. I propose more lists should consider it.
With 10 pump spells, using the Livewire Lash as a finisher seems more effective than the Hand pumping the team to maybe get through. I usually play the Lash, then wait until the next turn to equip. This leaves mana open for both the pump and the protection counter. With every card combination in the deck, that means at least 6 poison counters. This action would be at turn 5 ideally, so we probably win with this move.
Its not a "cute" deck. It does what it needs to do. To be fair, I've only fishbowled this build. (I don't own any Scars yet :/ poop), but this line of build seems to be the most direct. Yes, Hand optimizes all your plays, implying you're playing after you have it active. One card in two installments will win the game the turn you play it. I haven't done the full permutations, but how often will Hand on turn 5 win you the game?
It all very interesting to think about. Hats off to R&D for such a complex and robust Type 2 format. So many Tier 2 decks right now are doing the same thing we're doing, figuring out what the optimal build should be.
that's the first thing I thought:
"Now, to build that Moonlace combo deck I've been joking about sense I first saw that card..."
I really hope MaRo does one of those design histories on this card, curious to see how this card came up.
this card is soooooooooo redonkulous.
I saw it, have a hearty chuckle, and just shook my head, muttering under my breath, "It has begun."
and this comment put it over the top.
What can we do if it passes THE SHIVIAN METEOR TEST?
oh, forgot to mention... I mean... why... why is a giant mass of mushrooms Magic's most formidable creature? I've been speechless sense I've seen it.
Granted, I'm snowed in here in Denver listening to chiptune, so I have no reason to talk... that's all besides the point.
He nailed the Annihilation keyword and ability (he said Annihilate, close enough right? He described it exactly how it is on the card, if I remember correctly.).
I haven't tried, but someone should look that thread up again if we can.
On the card, I laughed out loud. I actually lol'd. Crazy, crazy card with a truly epic preview. Someone's gonna break Eldrazi. Show and Tell seems good
Idk... does it really matter? If infectous Horror isn't played, this wont get played.
Well, maybe pauper, but how many other people other than myself thought of that?
Looking forward to playing it, but probably won't buy it.
A man only has so much money for shiny cardboard with silly rules for use.
I agree, just they way they worded it was odd.
That's probably me looking too much into it is all.
You can practically smell the burning flesh.
but for reals, there's nothing in the announcement to really turn your head other than M10 and M11 in T2 at the same time... which leads you to believe there will be no reprints between them? This is unlikely, but not beyond MTG Staff right now. I expect the unexpected from them these days.
You can quit whining now! And yes I'm talking to you, cause seems like odds are, you've whined at least once sense LOR rotated that Blue sucks.
But I'm not one to dwell on the negative, how about massively improved Intro Packs? Expect the same "Buy an Intro Pack at the pre-release, play five games, get a free booster!" promotion to be in effect. These changes should move much more intro packs at those events.
Or "This year will feature a summer full of great multiplayer events and activities, headlined by a new format/product that rivals Planechase in sheer awesomeness."-- perhaps actual EDH DCI-sanctioned events, or for less of a stretch, this promised new format? It could be anything!
Or "the Legacy format will debut on Magic Online (albeit a few cards short, for the time being, of the paper format)" which sounds to me like all staple Legacy cards will be released this year?
But, realistically, the best news from this article is the given growth numbers from last year. This can only mean good things for the health of Magic as a whole.
I saw this and predicted the same thing.
At least five commonly played, high-powered EDH artifacts are going to be in here, most likely more.
So on New Year's Eve, a local store (Valhalla in Denver, CO) is hosting an EDH tournament with top prize being a ZEN booster box split across the top table. I'm quite interested in doing well enough to be in on that.
My dilemma is I have two EDH decks I feel have potentially even chances, (a homebrew Mayael and a homebrew Sygg, River Cutthroat) but I'm not sure which to run.
They both have a similar game plan- a very slow, political-minded play style, both "lay low" type decks. Denver has a robust tournament EDH scene (one store even hosts one a month), so I've developed this outlook as my own personal experience. From past results, this virtually guarantees a top three finish on 3-6 player tables if played wisely, but not so much a table win. This is fine; most tournaments I've played advances the top 2 or 3 players. My goal is not to win (I simply do not have the card pool/ money for the decks I want to run to do so, I shamefully admit.), but rather make the final table. I feel both decks could do so, but in very different ways.
(note: I'm not going to post exact deck lists...
idk if I'm actually allowed to. I did read the forum FAQ,
so mods,
if this isn't the place to post something like this,
I'm sorry. I'm just retarded then.)
The Mayael build is unique in that is more of a mana-ramp into 4 X-burn spells and 3 life gain spells and the 14 power 5+ creatures (I know, not "enough"). Non power 5 beats are Taurean Mauler, Feral Hydra, Dragon Broodmother, and Realm Razer (< as an interesting late game option). Notable individual cards: Seedborn Muse, Mayael's Aria, Minion Reflector, Sigil of Distinction, Chandra Nalaar, Ajani Vengeant, Mage Slayer, 7 artifact/enchantment removal spells, Naya Charm and 3 burn spells, Mana Reflection, Keeper of Progenitus, Knotvine Mystic, Hostility, and Flameblast Dragon. A land count of 42 with other producers, I rarely have any issues.
Goal: lay low, set up, pick off threats as needed, then hopefully explode end of mid, late game, playing a large burn to finish off a opponent.
I have the most experience with this deck. I've played about 10 tournament games with this deck in various iterations. I'm comfortable with it.
But I'm not sure if its better than my Sygg build I finished yesterday. An straight forward blue/black counter/kill (12 counters, 10 kill, 3 bounce) with lots of card draw (16, including Sygg). While maintaining the board as discretely as possible, the late game Inkwell Leviathan, Deepchannel Mentor (by itself does nothing, I know), Oona, Queen of the Fae, Dread, Guile, or Kederekt Leviathan (hopefully a combination of two of those, with all the card draw) should be enough to sweep up at least one other player down the stretch. Notable individual cards: Memory Plunder (if I run this deck, I want to do something really stupid with this card at least once.), Wound Reflection, Cumber Stone, Twincast, Wispersilk Cloak, Cloak and Dagger, Stasis Cell, Last Word, Time Stop, Shred Memory. Long-Term Plans is an interesting search I haven't seen used before. And River Kelpie... oh, River Kelpie...there will be cards drawn. 39 lands, all basic except Reliquary Tower, the only no max hand size card i own, sadly.
Goal: try to be as diplomatic as possible while still maintaining the board as i can, when I've drawn a lot and two others players are knocked out, play my own "win" creatures and try to maintain from there.
The problem is I have zero games played with this deck. I don't know how other players will respond to such a strategy (as I would play it) in a tournament environment. Also, the lack of an "I win" combo is slightly unsettling playing a U/B deck. I have to 100% rely on creatures to get through.
A lot of text to say... I don't know which to play.
Any suggestions are welcome.
But, I really can't change the lists. I shouldn't even be paying the 5 dollar entry fee, because I'm that strapped on cash right now. So yes, I know I'm missing good U/B EDH cards that cost 50 cents to 2 dollars, and my Mayael build is "wrong". I simply don't have the resources to build them to where I want them. That's partially why I play the way I do; I know I don't have the same concentration of quality spells most competitive EDH builds have.
All that said, if you read all that, thank you, and again, any comments welcome.