I've played sharuum without any form of counter magic for roughly 3 years.
Sharuum doesn't need it if you've enough redundant recursion engines. Doing that actually enables you to bait their counters, which is preferable to facing them when trying to resolve Open the Vaults or something similar.
I've been running Silence, Orim's Chant in their place. I find them to be more effective, as it makes counter-mages have to A) Have two spells in hand, one for Silence/Chant and another for what's coming, or B) not counter Silence/Chant and pray I'm not bluffing.
Counter magic is a great linear problem solver in a format without a lot of linear problems.
Ability one: Nice, can't complain about this one, except that unless you get Ugin out early, it's reach is going to get significantly smaller.
Ability two: Not bad. Nice sweeper, and being scalable is wonderful. Could potentially backfire against our own mana rocks though.
Ability three: in a more PW focused build, one in which you're capable of manipulating the number of loyalty counters via proliferate or other means, this ability is going to be wonderful. However, it's rare we see PW abilities fire in most games, so this is a creamscicle dream at best.
Cost: 8 mana is to be expected for something like this. Being colorless is super nice.
Compared to Karn Liberated: I feel like Karn puts you farther by denying your opponent valuable resources. Karn's ability to target lands also makes him more powerful IMHO. Their final abilities are irrelevant, but Karn's is going to cause much bigger headaches and tilt, whereas Ugin can put you father ahead in the game.
Between the two, I recommend playing both if you can, but Karn is still the superior choice as of right now.
I played helm/leyline combo for a while. It's incredibly effective. I eventually dropped it because for 8 mana, I had other ***** I wanted to do. Try it though.
To be tested in this week and/or obtained:
Foil Altar of the Brood
Foil KCI.
I tested KCI years ago and wasn't a fan, but that likely had more to do with the build at the time. The new list should eat it right up.
Altar seems fun. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Altar is a nice addition, but you've got to be careful with the Eldrazi still being popular options. If you're going to do that, run Leyline of the Void to avoid awkwardness.
You're definitely not the only one that hates Animar Ironically, I'd build that deck today if I could.
My store has recently undergone some changes in ownership, and we're slowly trying to rebuild our CMDR base(...sigh, again) with my input and help.
This basically means that, for the time being, I AM the metagame. I'm loaning decks out as new comers try to find their footing.
Currently, I'm running the following:
Sharuum (answer/combo)
Karametra (ramp)
Bosh, Iron Golem (mana denial)
Isamaru (HOW CAN I HOLD ALL THESE TOKENS)
Shattergang Bros (NO NEED TO HOLD THEM THEY'RE GOING TO DIE ANYWAYS)
(Random Rotationg sixth list. As of right now, Zombie Tribal, Mono B)
Honestly, the lists are all fairly easy to pick up, balance each other out nicely, and create a varied enough format to allow for some interesting political interactions. For example, Sharuum and Bosh get along until Bosh reaches critical levels of cluster-*******. Karametra can beat Sharuum, but has a hard time with bosh and Isamaru sometimes. Shattergang doesn't care about Bosh or Sharuum, as it tries to kill through goblin-based damage enchantments, but can still lose to karametra.
Isamaru just growls really loudly and swings, but it's effective.
However, we do have some more experienced players in the mix. One player in particular is packing Hana, Ship's Navigator. Another is using Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and does REALLY well despite having an almost all-basic mana base. It's when I get out of my comfort zone I experience problems. However, I feel like my list is tuned enough to at least put up a decent fight against a lot of problematic cards. I'm not too worried.
On KCI:
That card is really, really sick. If I wasn't bent towards salvaging station so much, I'd go with it's interactions instead. Salvaging station is a self-preserving engine, but KCI is a self-advancing engine due to the mana gain.
I honestly didn't imagine that there'd be this much discussion on Brainstorm and Ponder. Especially considering that at one time I ran both, and the only reason I dropped Brainstorm was for Ponders shuffle effect, and the fact I had a foil one Brainstorm is a great card, but I prefered the shuffle effect on ponder. It made bad selections with Scroll Rack go away. However, I'm thinking about cutting it for Terrarion.
That said, while TURBOOVERCOMBO builds of Sharuum exist, I'm going to echo what was said earlier in thread and say this: Sharuum should be a deck that can handle a lot of different issues, because a lot of different hate exists for it. If you're going for turbo combo, by all means, do it-however, don't expect playgroups to be too friendly to you. Sharuum should be an answer deck that happens to win by combo. It's a deck that needs to be versatile, with versatile win conditions, because lack of versatility and meta-readiness will crush it under a wave of Aura Shards and more.
However, not every meta is created equal. My personal build needs to be able to handle artifact hate, decks that can ramp quicker, mass aggro, tokens, and the occasional combo list. It's been built for that. I've gone against GY based decks like Karador and gotten my teeth kicked in. If it was built for nothing but combo, could I have won? maybe.
Build the deck for what you're facing the most. The list can shift in form and function by trading out as little as five, ten cards.
While I run eggs and enjoy them greatly, it should be noted I run some really dense rocks elsewhere. I run Crypt, SR, Vault, Grim Monolith, for acceleration. Chromatic Lantern/Ingot/eggs are all for mana fixing. Personally, I've enjoyed adding the eggs to the list, but I was leaning REALLY hard on Salvaging Station to begin with. The eggs don't accelerate you-they filter your mana and cantrip. So long as you're compensating for this elsewhere, it shouldn't be a problem. The list I have posted hasn't changed much in the last year, and I'm at the point I wouldn't trade out the eggs unless I was doing an overhaul.
On Lighthouse:
This is an extremely meta specific card, and I would run it only if hexproof decks were a problem. That's pretty much all I have to say.
On Intellectual Offering:
I am really not a fan of symmetrical cards. They always tend to bust in my opponents favor. Maybe I have bad luck, or maybe I'm extremely bad at politics, but Offering seems like a card that is almost always going to draw you three cards, unless you absolutely need to untap during your opponent's step, in which case it will set off a "red alert" as a sign towards trying to combo out. I haven't tested it, and I'm biased, but I feel like Turnabout would be beter if you're wanting some shenanigans, or Cryptic Command if you can afford the mana.
Sweet, Jostin! Congrats and all that.
I've a four year old daughter. My wife and I def. want another one, but I am NOT looking forward to that manic sleep schedule again!
Pending changes (when I get Foils):
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
+1 Lion's Eye Diamond
+1 Terrarion
Additional Changes when testing is complete:
-1 Darksteel Ingot
+1 Commander's Sphere/Unstable Obelisk.
Jostin has already gone into far more detail on certain cards than I can. Commander's Sphere interest me in that it cantrips, and that's about it. I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of Darksteel Ingot for a while-it appears it has finally arrived. As for unstable Obelisk, I feel confident in the list's capacity to deal with problems already, so I won't be testing it unless I happen to get one in trade.
As an additional update, I tested Metalworker-I'm not sure how the performance has been for everyone else, but I found him sadly lacking. He was almost immeadiately killed without fail, and rarely produced enough mana to matter. I know this is probably contradictory to what the rest of you have experienced, but it appears as though my meta is starting to shift in the wake of green's rising popularity.
I know this list hasn't changed drastically since the last time I posted, but when a list is this tight, I don't take changes lightly. LED is the only card I've yet to obtain that I feel undoubtedly will add power to the list.
But as you've given no indication as to what the dude is playing, nor what the rest of your group is playing,I'm actually going to suggest Mana denial strategies, of which there are plenty to choose from in every flavor except black. The strongest spells are in UWR, which also gives you access to things that screw over blue mages.
Blasting station also enables us to "dredge" our own win conditions. There's been an engine that used the white spellbomb from New Phyrexia (or whichever set it is), Krak Clan Ironworks, Salvaging Station AND this to somehow fill the graveyard until we grab what we need. I dunno though, I think I like Dampening Sphere (mill card for each tapped permanent?) more.
I think metalworker will earn his spot over another mana rock. I could easily replace Darksteel Ingot in my build with him. And having to survive one turn isn't that big of a deal when-if he survives-you're going to have an explosive, potentially game winning next turn.
On Alter of the Brood:
This will be a great card if you run Leyline of the Void. I find it similar to the Helm of Obedience+Leyline of the void combo I actually ran not long ago, albeit much easier to tutor for.
I absolutely love Sharuum. If the fact I've attempted to keep an active "primer" for her open and the fact I've played her for over 5 years says nothing else, she's undoubtedly my favorite card. She, simply put, does EVERYTHING.
http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/2015/03/24/an-open-letter-to-sheldon/
Sharuum doesn't need it if you've enough redundant recursion engines. Doing that actually enables you to bait their counters, which is preferable to facing them when trying to resolve Open the Vaults or something similar.
I've been running Silence, Orim's Chant in their place. I find them to be more effective, as it makes counter-mages have to A) Have two spells in hand, one for Silence/Chant and another for what's coming, or B) not counter Silence/Chant and pray I'm not bluffing.
Counter magic is a great linear problem solver in a format without a lot of linear problems.
On Ugin:
Ability one: Nice, can't complain about this one, except that unless you get Ugin out early, it's reach is going to get significantly smaller.
Ability two: Not bad. Nice sweeper, and being scalable is wonderful. Could potentially backfire against our own mana rocks though.
Ability three: in a more PW focused build, one in which you're capable of manipulating the number of loyalty counters via proliferate or other means, this ability is going to be wonderful. However, it's rare we see PW abilities fire in most games, so this is a creamscicle dream at best.
Cost: 8 mana is to be expected for something like this. Being colorless is super nice.
Compared to Karn Liberated: I feel like Karn puts you farther by denying your opponent valuable resources. Karn's ability to target lands also makes him more powerful IMHO. Their final abilities are irrelevant, but Karn's is going to cause much bigger headaches and tilt, whereas Ugin can put you father ahead in the game.
Between the two, I recommend playing both if you can, but Karn is still the superior choice as of right now.
Foil Altar of the Brood
Foil KCI.
I tested KCI years ago and wasn't a fan, but that likely had more to do with the build at the time. The new list should eat it right up.
Altar seems fun. I'll let you guys know how it goes.
My store has recently undergone some changes in ownership, and we're slowly trying to rebuild our CMDR base(...sigh, again) with my input and help.
This basically means that, for the time being, I AM the metagame. I'm loaning decks out as new comers try to find their footing.
Currently, I'm running the following:
Sharuum (answer/combo)
Karametra (ramp)
Bosh, Iron Golem (mana denial)
Isamaru (HOW CAN I HOLD ALL THESE TOKENS)
Shattergang Bros (NO NEED TO HOLD THEM THEY'RE GOING TO DIE ANYWAYS)
(Random Rotationg sixth list. As of right now, Zombie Tribal, Mono B)
Honestly, the lists are all fairly easy to pick up, balance each other out nicely, and create a varied enough format to allow for some interesting political interactions. For example, Sharuum and Bosh get along until Bosh reaches critical levels of cluster-*******. Karametra can beat Sharuum, but has a hard time with bosh and Isamaru sometimes. Shattergang doesn't care about Bosh or Sharuum, as it tries to kill through goblin-based damage enchantments, but can still lose to karametra.
Isamaru just growls really loudly and swings, but it's effective.
However, we do have some more experienced players in the mix. One player in particular is packing Hana, Ship's Navigator. Another is using Scion of the Ur-Dragon, and does REALLY well despite having an almost all-basic mana base. It's when I get out of my comfort zone I experience problems. However, I feel like my list is tuned enough to at least put up a decent fight against a lot of problematic cards. I'm not too worried.
On KCI:
That card is really, really sick. If I wasn't bent towards salvaging station so much, I'd go with it's interactions instead. Salvaging station is a self-preserving engine, but KCI is a self-advancing engine due to the mana gain.
I honestly didn't imagine that there'd be this much discussion on Brainstorm and Ponder. Especially considering that at one time I ran both, and the only reason I dropped Brainstorm was for Ponders shuffle effect, and the fact I had a foil one
That said, while TURBOOVERCOMBO builds of Sharuum exist, I'm going to echo what was said earlier in thread and say this: Sharuum should be a deck that can handle a lot of different issues, because a lot of different hate exists for it. If you're going for turbo combo, by all means, do it-however, don't expect playgroups to be too friendly to you. Sharuum should be an answer deck that happens to win by combo. It's a deck that needs to be versatile, with versatile win conditions, because lack of versatility and meta-readiness will crush it under a wave of Aura Shards and more.
However, not every meta is created equal. My personal build needs to be able to handle artifact hate, decks that can ramp quicker, mass aggro, tokens, and the occasional combo list. It's been built for that. I've gone against GY based decks like Karador and gotten my teeth kicked in. If it was built for nothing but combo, could I have won? maybe.
Build the deck for what you're facing the most. The list can shift in form and function by trading out as little as five, ten cards.
While I run eggs and enjoy them greatly, it should be noted I run some really dense rocks elsewhere. I run Crypt, SR, Vault, Grim Monolith, for acceleration. Chromatic Lantern/Ingot/eggs are all for mana fixing. Personally, I've enjoyed adding the eggs to the list, but I was leaning REALLY hard on Salvaging Station to begin with. The eggs don't accelerate you-they filter your mana and cantrip. So long as you're compensating for this elsewhere, it shouldn't be a problem. The list I have posted hasn't changed much in the last year, and I'm at the point I wouldn't trade out the eggs unless I was doing an overhaul.
On Lighthouse:
This is an extremely meta specific card, and I would run it only if hexproof decks were a problem. That's pretty much all I have to say.
On Intellectual Offering:
I am really not a fan of symmetrical cards. They always tend to bust in my opponents favor. Maybe I have bad luck, or maybe I'm extremely bad at politics, but Offering seems like a card that is almost always going to draw you three cards, unless you absolutely need to untap during your opponent's step, in which case it will set off a "red alert" as a sign towards trying to combo out. I haven't tested it, and I'm biased, but I feel like Turnabout would be beter if you're wanting some shenanigans, or Cryptic Command if you can afford the mana.
I've a four year old daughter. My wife and I def. want another one, but I am NOT looking forward to that manic sleep schedule again!
1x Sharuum the Hegemon
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Karn, Silver Golem
1x Kuldotha Forgemaster
1x Duplicant
1x Thopter Assembly
1x Myr Battlesphere
1x Magister Sphinx
Walkers:
1x Tezzeret, the Seeker
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Karn Liberated
Utility and junk:
1x Detention Sphere
1x Aether Spellbomb
1x Executioner's Capsule
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Dispeller's Capsule
1x Bitter Ordeal
1x Unburial Rites
1x Animate Dead
1x Sword of the Meek
1x Thopter Foundry
1x Orim's Chant
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Trading Post
1x Elixir of Immortality
1x Pithing Needle
1x Time Sieve
1x Mindslaver
1x Salvaging Station
1x Crucible of Worlds
1x Sculpting Steel
1x Open the Vaults
1x Voyager Staff
1x Darksteel Ingot
1x Lotus Bloom
1x Lotus Petal
1x Sol Ring
1x Chromatic Sphere
1x Chromatic Lantern
1x Mana Crypt
1x Voltaic Key
1x Grim Monolith
1x Mana Vault
1x Chromatic Star
Tutors:
1x Vampiric Tutor
1x Expedition Map
1x Entomb
1x Artificer's Intuition
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Transmute Artifact
1x Intuition
Draw Suite:
1x Ponder
1x Scroll Rack
1x Thirst for Knowledge
1x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Brainstorm
1x Windfall
1x Forbidden Alchemy
1x Memory Jar
1x Time Twister
1x Time Spiral
Sweepers:
1x All is Dust
Real estate:
1x Celestial Colonnade
1x Drowned Catacomb
1x Ancient Den
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Seat of the Synod
1x Vault of Whispers
1x Command Tower
1x Grand Coliseum
1x Forbidden Orchard
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x Arcane Sanctum
1x Gemstone Mine
1x City of Brass
1x Godless Shrine
1x Glimmervoid
1x Ancient Tomb
1x Mishra's Workshop
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Underground Sea
1x Watery Grave
1x Arid Mesa
1x Polluted Delta
1x Flooded Strand
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Marsh Flats
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cephalid Coliseum
1x Strip Mine
1x Wasteland
1x Buried Ruin
1x Academy Ruins
1x Phyrexia's Core
1x Tolaria West
1x Maze of Ith
1x inkmoth Nexus
1x Creeping Tar pit
Pending changes (when I get Foils):
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
+1 Lion's Eye Diamond
+1 Terrarion
Additional Changes when testing is complete:
-1 Darksteel Ingot
+1 Commander's Sphere/Unstable Obelisk.
Jostin has already gone into far more detail on certain cards than I can. Commander's Sphere interest me in that it cantrips, and that's about it. I've been looking for an excuse to get rid of Darksteel Ingot for a while-it appears it has finally arrived. As for unstable Obelisk, I feel confident in the list's capacity to deal with problems already, so I won't be testing it unless I happen to get one in trade.
As an additional update, I tested Metalworker-I'm not sure how the performance has been for everyone else, but I found him sadly lacking. He was almost immeadiately killed without fail, and rarely produced enough mana to matter. I know this is probably contradictory to what the rest of you have experienced, but it appears as though my meta is starting to shift in the wake of green's rising popularity.
I know this list hasn't changed drastically since the last time I posted, but when a list is this tight, I don't take changes lightly. LED is the only card I've yet to obtain that I feel undoubtedly will add power to the list.
But as you've given no indication as to what the dude is playing, nor what the rest of your group is playing,I'm actually going to suggest Mana denial strategies, of which there are plenty to choose from in every flavor except black. The strongest spells are in UWR, which also gives you access to things that screw over blue mages.
On Alter of the Brood:
This will be a great card if you run Leyline of the Void. I find it similar to the Helm of Obedience+Leyline of the void combo I actually ran not long ago, albeit much easier to tutor for.