My son (7yo) has been interested in playing MTG for a few weeks now. So I've decided to make a few basic decks so he can get used to playing different styles.
I figure 40 card singletron decks will keep the cost lower and let him get used to different cards doing similar things. I also figure mono coloured decks for each colour should at least help him identify / learn the strong points of each colour; but I'm sorta stumped on Black and Blue for beginners - any advice would be appreciated!
Here's what I have so far:
White> White Weeny styled - focused on synergy (soidlers mainly).
Red> Sligh styled - focused on curve and teaching to attack constantly also has alot of burn in it.
Green> Ramp to fat, with some early blockers/beaters to survive.
Black I'm thinking I want to show how you can use life or your graveyard as a resource.
Blue I'm thinking of bounce and draw sorta a tempo styled deck.
Again any suggestions on 'themes' for U or B...or even specific cards would be very helpful!
edit: I'll post decklists later on if anyone is interested - I'm trying to stay 'budget' so if it happens to be a phase it won't cost too much.
Most control decks play 2-4 Tectonic edge & 4 spreading seas.
Even without Emeria, MWC likley will be playing the beat-down role (this is where student of warfare could actually be good). It just comes down to playing more aggresively. I havn't really had too many issues
If we are talkign about mono black they will have discard as well. Something i've always found to be the bane of mono white control with its lack of card draw.
Agreed discard can be backbreaking ... Identity Crisis may be my least favourite spell ever! However white has a suprising amount of 'draw' effects right now. I've been able to comeback from T3 Blightning, T4 BBE into Blightning and win it due to the draw in white right now.
I dropped him for Everflowing Chalice. Hes really good and a favorite of mine but I consider Everflowing Chalice to officially take up my two mana slot, even though I might normally play it at 6 mana.
Chalice is a good card, I just find I have a hard time surviving to 6 mana frequently (against Jund basically) and a 2/x First strike helps me get there.
Your probably right, people will just O-ring your ascension and although it can win games, there are other finishers in the deck just fine. But its really best used against control decks. I have since taken it out of my sideboard since.
I tried really hard to like Ascension, it's a must answer or I win threat if played early game, but such a horrible top-deck even vs other control decks to be not worth it.
How do you guys play against Control ? (Mono-Black; W/U...).
It feels like MWC is great against aggro decks, but has a hard time against any disruption / counters.
VS other control decks, you have enevitability with Emeria - once it's online most control decks can't survive the recursion. Besides that, with alot of removal in our deck when they eventually drop a creature it frequently is gone.
.. if you are facing creaturless control or combo (does anyone still play crypt combo anymore?) basically just pray.
Yeah I posted heavily in that thread, infact I've been trying to make MWC work since M10 came out.
Based on expirences, I can say a few things about MWC I've learned over the past while:
1) If you aren't using Knights of the White Orchid you are doing it wrong. I'm gonna say without alot of testing Omens will be as good.
2) Emeria as a 3 or 4 of is still undecided for me, I've had about even amounts of time wishing for a 7th land and getting emeria... or wishing to draw emeria at 8 plains... one thing to note, in creature 'heavier' builds I'd say 4 Emeria, cuz it's a beating to bring 2 creatures back a turn.
3) If you are running DoJ, Scepter of Dominance is worth it's weight in gold.
4) Even with the slowing of the format Ascension is not a good card, sure it wins games if you have it in your opening hand - but if you top-deck it in a tight match you will not be happy. That being said, I have not played enough of RoE to be 100% sure... and after ALA rotates I'd expect it to be a much more solid play.
Here's my tenative list, I'd expect it'll get number tweaks soon
I can honestly say even dropping the BSA's (for a much more budget friendly list) this list should be fairly solid - flavor your SB to the local meta
I still wager this would be a solid start
Secondly, with regards to movement I was thinking we should differentiate 'movement' from 'attacking' so things become less confusing (I realize this sorta breaks up the attackers phase into clumps but I'm sure there's a workaround)
Suggested Rule Z: A creature without defender may move up to it's power every turn if able.
i. Creatures with 'Must attack each turn' if able must use all their movement points or attack each turn. (this can still be abused by having the creature move back and forth within the same 2 squares but considering multiple PW's may be present I can't think of an elegant way to make that work).
Suggested Rule Zi: If a creature would pass through the same square as an opposing creature (with the exceptions noted in the article as well as creatures with Trample) that creature's movement phase ends.
i. A creature with Trample can continue to the max of it's movement points each turn even if it enters the attack phase, it uses up 1 movement point for each toughness of the opposing creature. ->Eg: An opposing White Knight is 1 square away from a Plated Slagwurm The PS could attack the White Knight, however it's movement turn is over. -> Eg: An opposing White Knight is 1 square away from a Force of Nature. The FoN could attack the White Knight, and move an additional 5 squares (1 to move onto the same square as the Knight, and 2 to kill the Knight.)
And finally some random thoughts:
1) Counterspells should be based on the target of the spell (ie: opp bolts a Wolly Mammoth, if the creatures controller is within 2 spaces of the Mammoth it could be countered.)
If there is no target (ie: Wrath of God) the spell would be based on the caster of the spell.
2) Using the map to create choke-points etc could get insanely difficult rules-wise. I would say there should be 4 meta-types of terrain; and you could still play your land cards on any square. These meta-type's do not have any effect to the lands in play (ie: a swamp is still a basic land - Swamp):
Regular - No movement penalty. Rough - Uses 2 movement points for 1 square (NOTE: If a creature only has 1 movement point they may still move 1 square on Rough). Air - No movement penalty; however only creatures with Flying may cross these squares Impassable - No creatures may pass through these squares.
A change like that would make movement more important, and you may want to revisit landwalkers; so that rather than having evasion on their own land type, they instead use no movement points on their own land (or 1/2 the movement required if no movement penalty is too unbalanced).
Note: I apologize if this post is confusing, I'm running on little sleep the past few days !
I've been toying around with Goblin Bushwacker as a 1 for Ranger to fetch post sweep. Seems to be pretty solid plan to push thru that last bit of damage but I have not played enough games where it mattered to know for sure.
I'm likley going to get booed out of this thread - but I dont know if I like BBE in this deck.
Aside from people posting their sub-optimal lists in Pro-Tour I only have one issue that may have been addressed.
When MWC was moved to Pro-Tour I wasn't able to find where the old thread went and I had no idea a new thread was made in Pro-Tour for awhile. It wasnt a massive inconvienence but perhaps just posting that the old thread was locked and could be discussed in the Pro-Tour sub forum would be helpful.
Also in the newly created thread in Pro-Tour should link to the old thread discussing the archtype if it's relevant.
If you want something that can hang with BSA I'd suggest Felidar Sovereign - it is 6cmc but it survives combat with BSA and gives you an alt win if the game goes long.
<snip>
I don't see how this is true for Wurms. The concept we're familiar with for Wurms (giant, ravenous, snake-like creatures with no limbs that tunnel undergroud) is a Magic invention, just as much as Vedalken or Homarids, even if they're an invention that's relatively easy to grasp.
<snip>
I'm not sure that I agree, most people that are familiar with fantasy tropes will know what a Wurm is a wingless dragon. I have not found any people that are not interested in fantasy; that want to discuss MtG.
I'm not sure what I would consider iconic, Basilisk to me seems more subterranean, but it seems as good a fit as alot of the suggestions, and it would be easy to tie it's gaze (mechanically) to a reach or target creature loses flying type ability.
Just because Jund is the the deck that lost the least with the rotation (and people not fully aware of Zen's inpact on the meta) it makes sense to see alot of Jund decks.
I'm more interested to see the 'Rock' WRG deck in 2nd and the 'Angelfire' WUR deck in 7th place.
My 1st post was in the Limited section, I've been lurking here since Xth edition came out, but I decided to start drafting in Shm/Eve and I was very confused.
I never bothered to 'introduce' myself because I hate having to explain my nic to people (protip: it's nothing to do with the backstreet boys)
I've drafted SSS a few times, but I was really confused what to pick and I wanted to get some opinions.
I had a decent start to the draft by nabbing a few G/W cards like safehold elite, devoted druid, wildslayer elves and a mercy killing.
Pack 2 pick 1 I get these cards:
Scuttlemut
Hungry Spriggan
Kitchen Finks
Shield of the Oversoul
Drove of Elves
What should I have picked? Because I was really torn between Finks, Drove, and Shield.
Card choices:
Creatures - I've been toying around with various Angelfire decks since M10 came out, and I can say that I havn't been impressed with Baneslayer Angel at all in this deck. As with any creature lite deck, they will usually be holding onto kill/removal when you drop down your threat - Shroud or recursion takes care of this weakness... I also find Red decks usually have enough hasty threats to ruin my day so I had to include some way to counteract them.
PtE, Bolt, Jace, Vengeant are on pretty much every list so I wont bother re-stating what others have said.
Negate - I have loads of removal, but no way to deal with spells so this is a natural fit.
Cards I'm not so sure of:
Luminarch - not satisfied with honestly, there is too many decks with burn in them to make this consistent, great vs other controll decks but honestly there isn't alot of controll atm.
Banefire - Good finisher, but it's lost some steam, maybe replace with Burst Lightning?
Time Warp - Taking an extra turn is nice, but this deck wins thru attricion not alpha strikes.
Everything in the SB - just trying to make something that catches most of the played decks, needs tweaking for sure. (Pyroclasm > Volcanic Fallout in a deck with Luminarch)
Seriously just trust me on this - never ever watch this movie.
I figure 40 card singletron decks will keep the cost lower and let him get used to different cards doing similar things. I also figure mono coloured decks for each colour should at least help him identify / learn the strong points of each colour; but I'm sorta stumped on Black and Blue for beginners - any advice would be appreciated!
Here's what I have so far:
White> White Weeny styled - focused on synergy (soidlers mainly).
Red> Sligh styled - focused on curve and teaching to attack constantly also has alot of burn in it.
Green> Ramp to fat, with some early blockers/beaters to survive.
Black I'm thinking I want to show how you can use life or your graveyard as a resource.
Blue I'm thinking of bounce and draw sorta a tempo styled deck.
Again any suggestions on 'themes' for U or B...or even specific cards would be very helpful!
edit: I'll post decklists later on if anyone is interested - I'm trying to stay 'budget' so if it happens to be a phase it won't cost too much.
Agreed discard can be backbreaking ... Identity Crisis may be my least favourite spell ever! However white has a suprising amount of 'draw' effects right now. I've been able to comeback from T3 Blightning, T4 BBE into Blightning and win it due to the draw in white right now.
Chalice is a good card, I just find I have a hard time surviving to 6 mana frequently (against Jund basically) and a 2/x First strike helps me get there.
Glad to be of service!
I tried really hard to like Ascension, it's a must answer or I win threat if played early game, but such a horrible top-deck even vs other control decks to be not worth it.
VS other control decks, you have enevitability with Emeria - once it's online most control decks can't survive the recursion. Besides that, with alot of removal in our deck when they eventually drop a creature it frequently is gone.
.. if you are facing creaturless control or combo (does anyone still play crypt combo anymore?) basically just pray.
Based on expirences, I can say a few things about MWC I've learned over the past while:
1) If you aren't using Knights of the White Orchid you are doing it wrong. I'm gonna say without alot of testing Omens will be as good.
2) Emeria as a 3 or 4 of is still undecided for me, I've had about even amounts of time wishing for a 7th land and getting emeria... or wishing to draw emeria at 8 plains... one thing to note, in creature 'heavier' builds I'd say 4 Emeria, cuz it's a beating to bring 2 creatures back a turn.
3) If you are running DoJ, Scepter of Dominance is worth it's weight in gold.
4) Even with the slowing of the format Ascension is not a good card, sure it wins games if you have it in your opening hand - but if you top-deck it in a tight match you will not be happy. That being said, I have not played enough of RoE to be 100% sure... and after ALA rotates I'd expect it to be a much more solid play.
Here's my tenative list, I'd expect it'll get number tweaks soon
3 Emeria, The Sky Ruin
21 Plains
Creatures: 14
4 Wall of Omens
4 Knight of the White Orchid
4 Baneslayer Angel
2 Felidar Sovereign
4 Survival Cache
4 Repel the Darkness
4 Day of Judgment
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Path to Exile
2 Scepter of Dominance
I can honestly say even dropping the BSA's (for a much more budget friendly list) this list should be fairly solid - flavor your SB to the local meta
I still wager this would be a solid start
3 Celestial Purge
3 Devout Lightcaster
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Oust
3 Journey to Nowhere
Secondly, with regards to movement I was thinking we should differentiate 'movement' from 'attacking' so things become less confusing (I realize this sorta breaks up the attackers phase into clumps but I'm sure there's a workaround)
Suggested Rule Z: A creature without defender may move up to it's power every turn if able.
i. Creatures with 'Must attack each turn' if able must use all their movement points or attack each turn. (this can still be abused by having the creature move back and forth within the same 2 squares but considering multiple PW's may be present I can't think of an elegant way to make that work).
Suggested Rule Zi: If a creature would pass through the same square as an opposing creature (with the exceptions noted in the article as well as creatures with Trample) that creature's movement phase ends.
i. A creature with Trample can continue to the max of it's movement points each turn even if it enters the attack phase, it uses up 1 movement point for each toughness of the opposing creature.
-> Eg: An opposing White Knight is 1 square away from a Plated Slagwurm The PS could attack the White Knight, however it's movement turn is over.
-> Eg: An opposing White Knight is 1 square away from a Force of Nature. The FoN could attack the White Knight, and move an additional 5 squares (1 to move onto the same square as the Knight, and 2 to kill the Knight.)
And finally some random thoughts:
1) Counterspells should be based on the target of the spell (ie: opp bolts a Wolly Mammoth, if the creatures controller is within 2 spaces of the Mammoth it could be countered.)
If there is no target (ie: Wrath of God) the spell would be based on the caster of the spell.
2) Using the map to create choke-points etc could get insanely difficult rules-wise. I would say there should be 4 meta-types of terrain; and you could still play your land cards on any square. These meta-type's do not have any effect to the lands in play (ie: a swamp is still a basic land - Swamp):
Regular - No movement penalty.
Rough - Uses 2 movement points for 1 square (NOTE: If a creature only has 1 movement point they may still move 1 square on Rough).
Air - No movement penalty; however only creatures with Flying may cross these squares
Impassable - No creatures may pass through these squares.
A change like that would make movement more important, and you may want to revisit landwalkers; so that rather than having evasion on their own land type, they instead use no movement points on their own land (or 1/2 the movement required if no movement penalty is too unbalanced).
Note: I apologize if this post is confusing, I'm running on little sleep the past few days !
I'm likley going to get booed out of this thread - but I dont know if I like BBE in this deck.
When MWC was moved to Pro-Tour I wasn't able to find where the old thread went and I had no idea a new thread was made in Pro-Tour for awhile. It wasnt a massive inconvienence but perhaps just posting that the old thread was locked and could be discussed in the Pro-Tour sub forum would be helpful.
Also in the newly created thread in Pro-Tour should link to the old thread discussing the archtype if it's relevant.
White Knight will block their dudes all day until they bolt it or broodmate lands...
Cant think of any other cards that were not mentioned.
Oh and sidenote - spreading seas + convincing mirage works wonders on some mono coloured decks (relying on Emeria or Valkarut for example).
If you want something that can hang with BSA I'd suggest Felidar Sovereign - it is 6cmc but it survives combat with BSA and gives you an alt win if the game goes long.
BTW Sixten you made me laugh hard enough at the 2 cobras coming out of the box to make my co-workers glare at me!
I'm not sure that I agree, most people that are familiar with fantasy tropes will know what a Wurm is a wingless dragon. I have not found any people that are not interested in fantasy; that want to discuss MtG.
I'm not sure what I would consider iconic, Basilisk to me seems more subterranean, but it seems as good a fit as alot of the suggestions, and it would be easy to tie it's gaze (mechanically) to a reach or target creature loses flying type ability.
I'm more interested to see the 'Rock' WRG deck in 2nd and the 'Angelfire' WUR deck in 7th place.
I never bothered to 'introduce' myself because I hate having to explain my nic to people (protip: it's nothing to do with the backstreet boys)
found the post:
4 Glacial Fortress
2 Gargoyle Castle
4 Plains
5 Island
4 Mountain
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Arid Mesa
Creatures: 11 total
4 Deft Duelist
3 Wall of Denial
2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2 Magma Phoenix
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Luminarch Ascension
4 Negate
3 Jace Beleren
2 Ajani Vengeant
2 Banefire
2 Time Warp
3 Pyroclasm
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Goblin Ruinblaster
3 Double Negative
3 Swerve
Card choices:
Creatures - I've been toying around with various Angelfire decks since M10 came out, and I can say that I havn't been impressed with Baneslayer Angel at all in this deck. As with any creature lite deck, they will usually be holding onto kill/removal when you drop down your threat - Shroud or recursion takes care of this weakness... I also find Red decks usually have enough hasty threats to ruin my day so I had to include some way to counteract them.
PtE, Bolt, Jace, Vengeant are on pretty much every list so I wont bother re-stating what others have said.
Negate - I have loads of removal, but no way to deal with spells so this is a natural fit.
Cards I'm not so sure of:
Luminarch - not satisfied with honestly, there is too many decks with burn in them to make this consistent, great vs other controll decks but honestly there isn't alot of controll atm.
Banefire - Good finisher, but it's lost some steam, maybe replace with Burst Lightning?
Time Warp - Taking an extra turn is nice, but this deck wins thru attricion not alpha strikes.
Everything in the SB - just trying to make something that catches most of the played decks, needs tweaking for sure. (Pyroclasm > Volcanic Fallout in a deck with Luminarch)