I do believe this sums up my point exactly, it is only not treated as cheating because of the current IPG. Without the IPG this would be cheating as you are trying to gain an advantage by ignoring a game rule.
Incorrect. There is no game rule stating that the opponent of the trigger's controller is responsible for its correct resolution. The game rule puts that responsibility on the trigger's controller.
Furthermore, there is no game rule (that I'm aware of) that requires players to point out game rule violations by their opponent. That requirement, and the definition that declares the deliberate failure to meet that requirement to be Cheating (except in cases of missed triggers), comes from the IPG.
It is your right to be unhappy about the IPG change that shifted triggers from a both-players responsibility to a controller-only responsibility, but the Rulings forum is not the right venue for complaining about this change.
Just want to point out that outside of a tournament setting (casual), it is actually impossible to miss a trigger.
That statement is only true in a fictitious world in which nobody ever makes mistakes. Triggers are supposed to happen automatically, but players need to execute those automatic instructions. Since players are human beings, they occasionally forget to execute those automatic instructions. That's as true in casual play as it is in tournament play.
[The IPG] allows players to cheat and not be penalized for it.
Incorrect. Cheating by deliberately "missing" a trigger will get you disqualified. The "Missed Trigger" rule only applies to cases where players accidentally miss a trigger.
The fact that cards are drawn sequentially is actually immaterial to the question. Hymn to Tourach triggers Megrim twice even though the cards are discarded simultaneously.
The real answer is that Lorescale Coatl looks for a particular amount of cards, namely one, being drawn, and an instruction to draw three cards matches that trigger condition three times. By contrast, Ajani's Pridemate doesn't trigger on a particular amount of lifegain. Regardless of the amount of life gained, each life gain event triggers the ability once.
More generally, the trigger condition defines the "granularity" of the event it's triggering on, and depending on what a trigger looks for, a single action can trigger an ability once or multiple times:
700.1. Anything that happens in a game is an event. Multiple events may take place during the resolution of a spell or ability. The text of triggered abilities and replacement effects defines the event they're looking for. One "happening" may be treated as a single event by one ability and as multiple events by another.
Example: If an attacking creature is blocked by two creatures, this is one event for a triggered ability that reads "Whenever [this creature] becomes blocked" but two events for a triggered ability that reads "Whenever [this creature] becomes blocked by a creature."
As far as the follow-up question is concerned, we don't discuss made-up cards.
Let's remember that the Rulings forum is for rules questions. Let's not derail the thread into a discussion of whether WotC should ban cards with random effects.
As far as the question is concerned, most of the time you'll have fewer than 20 eligible targets, so a single D20 (which many Magic players will have on hand anyway) will be sufficient in most cases.
If you want to discuss the "best" method for randomly choosing a target, the Rulings forum is not the place for that discussion. The rules only care that each possible outcome have the same likelihood of occurring.
Opponent tries to cast Unburial Rites for the Flashback cost, I hit it with a Negate. Does it go to Exile or Graveyard?
Exile. Casting Unburial Rites for its flashback cost sets up a replacement effect that exiles the card instead of going anywhere else as it leaves the stack. It doesn't have to resolve to be exiled.
Everybody who says this is definitely not cheating is just as incorrect as everybody who says it definitely is cheating. The decision whether it is or isn't cheating can only be made after investigation, and none of us were there to investigate why the player did what he did.
Depending on the outcome of the investigation, we have either this:
A player has illegal, insufficient, or another players’ cards in their deck
Remove any cards that shouldn’t be there and replace any cards that should – or Basic Lands of their choice if
the deck/sideboard is short. If discovered during a draw effect, have them redraw after fixing and shuffling
their deck. Additionally, recommend that the players count their deck and sideboard before they start a match.
or this:
- Serious Problems -
There are also certain behaviours that will not be tolerated in any event. Any player engaging in the following
must be disqualified from your event;
● Aggressive, violent or abusive behaviour (physical or verbal)
● Cheating, lying or intentionally making illegal game actions or trying to avoid penalties
● Influencing Match outcomes (by incentives, coercion or random methods)
● Theft (this includes things like replacing a chase rare in a draft with one from their binder)
If your opponent does something you find questionable, call a judge. The judge will determine based on his or her investigation what needs to be done.
If I cast Enter the infinite and dredge the first 3 cards of 40 withLife from the loam, will I lose because I have to draw 40, or do I dredge 3, then draw 37?
You'll lose the game, but not because you have to draw 40 cards. The first draw was replaced by dredge, so you only have to draw 39 cards, but that's still more than the 37 cards you have left in your library after the dredge.
Incorrect. There is no game rule stating that the opponent of the trigger's controller is responsible for its correct resolution. The game rule puts that responsibility on the trigger's controller.
Furthermore, there is no game rule (that I'm aware of) that requires players to point out game rule violations by their opponent. That requirement, and the definition that declares the deliberate failure to meet that requirement to be Cheating (except in cases of missed triggers), comes from the IPG.
It is your right to be unhappy about the IPG change that shifted triggers from a both-players responsibility to a controller-only responsibility, but the Rulings forum is not the right venue for complaining about this change.
Thread locked.
That statement is only true in a fictitious world in which nobody ever makes mistakes. Triggers are supposed to happen automatically, but players need to execute those automatic instructions. Since players are human beings, they occasionally forget to execute those automatic instructions. That's as true in casual play as it is in tournament play.
Incorrect. Cheating by deliberately "missing" a trigger will get you disqualified. The "Missed Trigger" rule only applies to cases where players accidentally miss a trigger.
Magic 2014 has been added to Gatherer, so please use card tags when asking about M14 cards.
The real answer is that Lorescale Coatl looks for a particular amount of cards, namely one, being drawn, and an instruction to draw three cards matches that trigger condition three times. By contrast, Ajani's Pridemate doesn't trigger on a particular amount of lifegain. Regardless of the amount of life gained, each life gain event triggers the ability once.
More generally, the trigger condition defines the "granularity" of the event it's triggering on, and depending on what a trigger looks for, a single action can trigger an ability once or multiple times:
As far as the follow-up question is concerned, we don't discuss made-up cards.
Thread locked.
As far as the question is concerned, most of the time you'll have fewer than 20 eligible targets, so a single D20 (which many Magic players will have on hand anyway) will be sufficient in most cases.
If you want to discuss the "best" method for randomly choosing a target, the Rulings forum is not the place for that discussion. The rules only care that each possible outcome have the same likelihood of occurring.
Exile. Casting Unburial Rites for its flashback cost sets up a replacement effect that exiles the card instead of going anywhere else as it leaves the stack. It doesn't have to resolve to be exiled.
Depending on the outcome of the investigation, we have either this:
or this:
If your opponent does something you find questionable, call a judge. The judge will determine based on his or her investigation what needs to be done.
And that's really all that can be said here.
You'll lose the game, but not because you have to draw 40 cards. The first draw was replaced by dredge, so you only have to draw 39 cards, but that's still more than the 37 cards you have left in your library after the dredge.