What is the point of that extra rules text? If they feel planeswalkers shouldn't be allowed to be commanders, then none of them should be commanders. If planeswalkers SHOULD be allowed to be commanders, then they should just update the rules for Commander to allow any planeswalker. It's really inelegant to add a small extra rule like this to the text box.
Besides, a wide swathe of the commander crowd has been asking for that change for years anyway. Making only a few specific planeswalkers allowed is just rubbing salt in their wounds.
Well if they're not going to reprint Goyf/Fetches/etc. in a real set, then I guess this is the next best thing. About time too. Hopefully it won't be another drastically underprinted and limited for no reason print run when they KNOW it's going to sell huge, as was the case with Modern Masters.
Seriously, the price for modern fetches, a mandatory building block for most decks in the format, is absolutely sickening.
Edited addition: For the people pointing at Commander's Arsenal and Modern Masters for price expectations, that has absolutely nothing to do with the contents of the product. It has everything to do with whether the print run is limited to X amount, or based on the requested orders in a given time (like a normal product). If these Modern Event Decks are not arbitrarily limited, then the price will stabilize near the MSRP.
I find the name a bit disappointing... But at least the cost is very reasonable. I definitely think 1B is the right cost for the card to be useful in niche decks, possibly be competitive, and at the same time not be recklessly costed. Mostly I'm just very glad they didn't cost this card at 3B.
Some of the other voted effects still seem more interesting to me, but this is a very well executed package for this effect.
I used to play Avoid Fate in an older mono-GMolimo, Maro Sorcerer deck, and it tended to be merely OK. Not stopping sorceries or activated abilities was frequently relevant. At the time (years ago), it seemed acceptable, but many new cards have been released.
I run it in all my decks I don't want to spend money on. Tutors are very strong, and Diabolic Tutor is the best budget tutor. For the people mentioning Diabolic Revelation, it's not even a fair comparison! That card offers a different functionality, and is terrible compared to Diabolic Tutor. When I tutor for a card I typically want to either cast the card I tutored for, or cast another threat so simply tutoring doesn't put a huge "KILL ME NOW" target on my head. You can't typically do that with Diabolic Revelation.
Your tutors and accel need to be ungodly cheap and efficient to make the cut in competitive decks. Outside of mono-black, I can't see Diabolic Tutor making the cut.
Swan Song - A hard counter that costs U. Grand. This card will haunt me for the rest of my days, I am sure. Be prepared to see this all over the place.
Prophet of Kruphix - So it's Seedborn Muse attached to Winding Canyons? In one card? Sign me up!
Elspeth, Sun's Champion - Her plus ability is crazy, her minues is even more ridiculous in this format. Her ult doesn't even matter.
Ashen Rider - This card will make a huge splash. Angel of Despair is already highly prized, and this is Angel but better and twice.
Hero's Downfall - Still have no idea why this is rare... Planeswalker removal is deathly needed in this game.
The others are all less bomby and universally playable, but slots 7-10 go to some combination of Puphoros, God of the Forge,
Too bad literally all the commons and uncommons in this set are complete trash. Normally I get excited about at least one of those. Not this time. Honorable mentions to Fleetfoot Sandels and Read the Bones. Still don't make the cut in any of my decks, but at least they aren't 100% useless.
Also, I think Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx is incredibly overrated for EDH. It'll never reach the levels of Cabal Coffers, Gaea's Cradle or Tolarian Academy, since it doesn't work with lands, tokesn, or mana accelerants. The 2 in the activation cost makes it doubly hard to make a profit off using the land. It might be ok some of the time, but it's fairly weak overall.
All of those are common or uncommon. All of those grant you something like card advantage, in addition to killing a creature. The ones that cost 6 there are either instants (which the Gorgon is not) or unconditional (which the Gorgon is not).
Moreover, you cannot usually activate the Gorgon the turn you play it. And the Gorgon isn't even a sure 2-for-1. If your opponent has removal, they are going to remove the gorgon before you can activate it. You can't say that about other removal spells. You may also be missing the fact that slow sorcery removal spells tend to be pretty meh in limited.
Based on all that, yes, I think 3BB would be an appropriate, and still interesting cost for it's monstrous ability. I think Monstrous 2 for 4BB would also be good. Neither of those are even close to pushing the boundaries of "overpowered in limited". They are right on curve for what the card does. Monstrous 1 for 5BB is extremely slow and disappointing for an otherwise interesting card concept. You cannot even activate the kill spell on curve the turn after you play it.
I like the idea of the card, but the execution is really lackluster... The monstrous ability should probably be costed at 3BB, a standard cost for "slow kill spells", rather than 5BB. Or at the very least, it should give +2/+2. Plus the name is horrid.
It's certainly limited playable, but they could have made it a more interesting package.
Though the karoos can help with landfall, which can generate card advantage.
I'd count lands that produce more than one mana as tempo and lands that produce variable amounts of mana as inherently broken.
Well technically, the Karoos are negative tempo, since they reduce your total mana output for the turn you play it. Playing a bounceland in standard could often get you killed vs fast aggro decks.
Ancient Tomb is definitely a tempo card though. Increases mana output per turn by two in a single turn? Sign me up!
Virtual card advantage is making cards useless. Playing a Hexproof creature is virtual card advantage against a hand full of removal, as they might as well not be there.
I included that what I said "or denies to your opponent a card-like object". I just didn't give it as an example, since it's not entirely clear when Hexproof is and is not virtual card advantage. Hexproof is only virtual card advantage if you have no non-hexproofed creatures. You're not denying them a card. You're denying them the chance to use the card.
Based on my experiences, there are 4 related concepts that all mean different things: Card Advantage; Virtual Card Advantage; Card Quality; Tempo.
What do these mean?
Card Advantage - The number of raw usable cards available to you in relation to your opponent. Typically this only looks at hand sizes and what's in play. Examples: Divination, Wrath of God on more than one opponent's creature and none of your own, Squadron Hawk, Disturbed Burial. A difficult to see form of card advantage would be Plow under. By putting two cards on top of the opponent's library, you spent a single card, to force them to redraw two cards they have already drawn, essentially denying them two draws. Plow Under is also a form of Tempo. Related deck type: Control.
Virtual Card Advantage - When a card generates or denies to your opponent a card-like object, such as a token or flashback spell in the graveyard. Examples: Sprout Swarm generates a token and sticks around when you buy it back. Firebolt can be used a second time with flashback, so the first cast is virtual card advantage. If you use it twice to remove creature cards from your opponent, then it also generates actual card advantage. Most planeswalkers, which essentially cast free spells every turn. Related deck type: I'm not entirely sure. Most decks make use of this secondarily to the other ones. Maybe token based decks like the Lingering Souls/Doomed Traveler/Midnight Haunting deck that was in standard a while back?
Card Quality - When your cards are essentially worth more than your opponent's cards. Examples: Pretty much any to-hand tutor. Creatures with undying. Tarmogoyf. Related deck types: Midrange and Goodstuff decks. Note: Card quality type decks are incredibly easy to see in limited. Just try drafting a deck filled with cmc 4-6 big guys and play against your opponents.
Tempo - When you disrupt or outpace your opponent, winning before your opponent can gain enough mana or turns to cast their spells. Examples: Remand and Memory Lapse. Burn spells to the dome. Stone Rain. Cheap creatures with haste. Related deck types: Suicide black. Red aggro decks. Land destruction.
All of these are useful in winning, and only a single one won't matter if the others aren't in place either. Having infinite card advantage won't matter if they're all Kobols of Kher Keep. But put swords on Squadron Hawks, and you have a deck.
Special edited addition edition! I've seen all of the above called card advantage, but I honestly think referring to them all under the same name is misleading. They are not even close to being the same. They should absolutely have different terms associated with them in order to reduce confusion in communication. That is the entire purpose of language and new words. It makes no sense to say you've gained card advantage by killing your opponent before they could cast those 4 cards in hand.
I have to go with Volcanic Geyser. I hear Fireballs are good in limited. Instant speed ones, even moreso. Pings evasive creatures at low mana costs, has the ability to remove almost any late game bomb they might drop, and can go for the dome with huge reach if you're at a stalemate.
Volcanic Geyser is always awesome in my peasant cube, and that's way faster than most core sets are.
Hive Stirrings seem like the only other option that might be jut as powerful, but that depends on how highly others are drafting slivers. Since the slivers are being competitively costed even without other slivers in play, I wouldn't expect to get many.
If your opponent has a 3/3, you pay 4 to get a 3/3 and kill their 3/3, which is extremely powerful. Stealing a kalonian tusker is decent, but stealing a messenger drake is often game-breaking.
They should have just reprinted Mind Control at rare, or if that's too straightforward, slap on some quirky extra ability (untap it or gains flying or something?) and print a 4UU Mind Control at rare. Domestication is really sad at rare...
So, just to be clear, you believe that a person asked the WoTC rules manager if they could drop from a draft and take their unopened packs, and the WoTC rules manager replies "If people leave during a draft, there’s nothing we’re going to do to stop them. It’s not Theft of Tournament Materials", he actually means "No, they cannot take their unopened packs when they drop", and he simply chose to leave that out of his answer. You also believe that every L1, L2, and L3 judge who have posted that players are free to pick up their unopened packs and drop from a draft are ALL incorrect, and despite having passed multiple examinations in order to be certified as judges, they don't know how to interpret the rules in this situation.
I just want to be clear on what your position is, because if that sums it up, then you'll just need to agree to disagree with everyone else.
No, that is not what I believe. I'm not sure what happens to unopened packs. It's not clear. I'd like to think they may take their unopened packs, but that is irrelevant to what we are actually argued about. We aren't arguing over the unopened packs, nor the cards that are already picked. We are arguing over cards that are opened, already being drafted, already being picked from, but not yet picked. Packs that are already opened are covered in the rules, and it seems to me the rules require the opened pack to remain in the draft.
The hypothesis for the unpicked cards to remain in the draft is "If a player is unable or unwilling to continue drafting". The hypothesis is not "If a player is unable or unwilling to continue drafting AND still wishes to participate in the event". How is wanting to leave the draft or drop in any way different from being unwilling to continue drafting?
According to the rules, the unpicked cards are not owned by the player. According to the rules, if the player holding the cards is unwilling to continue the draft, the unpicked cards remain in the draft and are picked by a judge at random. It is right there. Explicitly and without ambiguity. In the rules.
Why would Tabek need to mention "no, players may not take cards they do not own from the table" when it is stated explicitly in the rules what happens to the cards that player does not own when they leave?
Honestly, I think Tabek's answer is vague because there will be internal discussion on this matter before they release a more official statement, and they want to leave both options open. He could have easily said, "Yes, they may take the unopened boosters, their picks, and the cards they are holding." or even simply "Yes to all of those (the questions asked in the blog post)." But he didn't.
It is not clear. He does not state you can take everything you have in front of you. He explicitly states it is dropping. And the rules explicitly state what happens when someone is unwilling or unable to continue the draft. The player may take all cards they picked so far, but all unpicked cards from the current booster remain in the draft and are picked at random by a judge.
This interpretation is not contradictory with what Tabek's post says on this matter.
Edited addition for clairty: In addition, the rules technically do not say what happens to unopened boosters, but they seem to imply they are not yet in the draft. The rules do not instruct the unopened packs to remain in the draft, notably unlike already opened but unpicked cards.
I did make a Taiga, actually. I have no idea why it wasn't showing up, but I entered the forum codes for it into my post again and it seems to be showing up now. Thanks for catching that!
Besides, a wide swathe of the commander crowd has been asking for that change for years anyway. Making only a few specific planeswalkers allowed is just rubbing salt in their wounds.
Seriously, the price for modern fetches, a mandatory building block for most decks in the format, is absolutely sickening.
Edited addition: For the people pointing at Commander's Arsenal and Modern Masters for price expectations, that has absolutely nothing to do with the contents of the product. It has everything to do with whether the print run is limited to X amount, or based on the requested orders in a given time (like a normal product). If these Modern Event Decks are not arbitrarily limited, then the price will stabilize near the MSRP.
Some of the other voted effects still seem more interesting to me, but this is a very well executed package for this effect.
At this point, I'd pretty much never play it, even in mono-G, since we now have Vines of the Vastwood, Ranger's Guile, and Not Of This World. In addition, we now have a few extra protection giving equipments, Darksteel Plate, Swiftfoot Boots, etc. etc. At this point, there is absolutely no way Avoid Fate would make the cut in any of my 99.
In my decks that are already packed with tutors like Mystical Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, and competing cards like Phyrexian Arena, Ancient Craving, Thirst for Knowledge, Fact or Fiction, and tons of others. If you want your deck to run like a machine, you want every card to be incredibly efficient, and a 2BB tutor typically just isn't fast enough.
Your tutors and accel need to be ungodly cheap and efficient to make the cut in competitive decks. Outside of mono-black, I can't see Diabolic Tutor making the cut.
Too bad literally all the commons and uncommons in this set are complete trash. Normally I get excited about at least one of those. Not this time. Honorable mentions to Fleetfoot Sandels and Read the Bones. Still don't make the cut in any of my decks, but at least they aren't 100% useless.
Also, I think Nykthos, Shrine of Nyx is incredibly overrated for EDH. It'll never reach the levels of Cabal Coffers, Gaea's Cradle or Tolarian Academy, since it doesn't work with lands, tokesn, or mana accelerants. The 2 in the activation cost makes it doubly hard to make a profit off using the land. It might be ok some of the time, but it's fairly weak overall.
Annihilate, Assassin's Strike, Corpsehatch, Cruel Revival, Dead Ringers, Gloom Lance, Liturgy of Blood, Public Execution, Murderous Spoils, Shriekmaw, and Violet Pall.
All of those are common or uncommon. All of those grant you something like card advantage, in addition to killing a creature. The ones that cost 6 there are either instants (which the Gorgon is not) or unconditional (which the Gorgon is not).
Moreover, you cannot usually activate the Gorgon the turn you play it. And the Gorgon isn't even a sure 2-for-1. If your opponent has removal, they are going to remove the gorgon before you can activate it. You can't say that about other removal spells. You may also be missing the fact that slow sorcery removal spells tend to be pretty meh in limited.
Based on all that, yes, I think 3BB would be an appropriate, and still interesting cost for it's monstrous ability. I think Monstrous 2 for 4BB would also be good. Neither of those are even close to pushing the boundaries of "overpowered in limited". They are right on curve for what the card does. Monstrous 1 for 5BB is extremely slow and disappointing for an otherwise interesting card concept. You cannot even activate the kill spell on curve the turn after you play it.
The execution here is just plain boring.
I like the idea of the card, but the execution is really lackluster... The monstrous ability should probably be costed at 3BB, a standard cost for "slow kill spells", rather than 5BB. Or at the very least, it should give +2/+2. Plus the name is horrid.
It's certainly limited playable, but they could have made it a more interesting package.
Well technically, the Karoos are negative tempo, since they reduce your total mana output for the turn you play it. Playing a bounceland in standard could often get you killed vs fast aggro decks.
Ancient Tomb is definitely a tempo card though. Increases mana output per turn by two in a single turn? Sign me up!
I included that what I said "or denies to your opponent a card-like object". I just didn't give it as an example, since it's not entirely clear when Hexproof is and is not virtual card advantage. Hexproof is only virtual card advantage if you have no non-hexproofed creatures. You're not denying them a card. You're denying them the chance to use the card.
Both those would be card quality. You're playing lands that are worth roughly two lands.
What do these mean?
Card Advantage - The number of raw usable cards available to you in relation to your opponent. Typically this only looks at hand sizes and what's in play.
Examples: Divination, Wrath of God on more than one opponent's creature and none of your own, Squadron Hawk, Disturbed Burial. A difficult to see form of card advantage would be Plow under. By putting two cards on top of the opponent's library, you spent a single card, to force them to redraw two cards they have already drawn, essentially denying them two draws. Plow Under is also a form of Tempo.
Related deck type: Control.
Virtual Card Advantage - When a card generates or denies to your opponent a card-like object, such as a token or flashback spell in the graveyard.
Examples: Sprout Swarm generates a token and sticks around when you buy it back. Firebolt can be used a second time with flashback, so the first cast is virtual card advantage. If you use it twice to remove creature cards from your opponent, then it also generates actual card advantage. Most planeswalkers, which essentially cast free spells every turn.
Related deck type: I'm not entirely sure. Most decks make use of this secondarily to the other ones. Maybe token based decks like the Lingering Souls/Doomed Traveler/Midnight Haunting deck that was in standard a while back?
Card Quality - When your cards are essentially worth more than your opponent's cards.
Examples: Pretty much any to-hand tutor. Creatures with undying. Tarmogoyf.
Related deck types: Midrange and Goodstuff decks.
Note: Card quality type decks are incredibly easy to see in limited. Just try drafting a deck filled with cmc 4-6 big guys and play against your opponents.
Tempo - When you disrupt or outpace your opponent, winning before your opponent can gain enough mana or turns to cast their spells.
Examples: Remand and Memory Lapse. Burn spells to the dome. Stone Rain. Cheap creatures with haste.
Related deck types: Suicide black. Red aggro decks. Land destruction.
All of these are useful in winning, and only a single one won't matter if the others aren't in place either. Having infinite card advantage won't matter if they're all Kobols of Kher Keep. But put swords on Squadron Hawks, and you have a deck.
Special edited addition edition! I've seen all of the above called card advantage, but I honestly think referring to them all under the same name is misleading. They are not even close to being the same. They should absolutely have different terms associated with them in order to reduce confusion in communication. That is the entire purpose of language and new words. It makes no sense to say you've gained card advantage by killing your opponent before they could cast those 4 cards in hand.
Volcanic Geyser is always awesome in my peasant cube, and that's way faster than most core sets are.
Hive Stirrings seem like the only other option that might be jut as powerful, but that depends on how highly others are drafting slivers. Since the slivers are being competitively costed even without other slivers in play, I wouldn't expect to get many.
That never stopped them from printing things like Ready//Willing at rare. Even just in M13 we had Nefarox, Overlord of Grixis and Thragtusk, both of which provide just as much, if not more value than a Mind Control does.
They should have just reprinted Mind Control at rare, or if that's too straightforward, slap on some quirky extra ability (untap it or gains flying or something?) and print a 4UU Mind Control at rare. Domestication is really sad at rare...
Anyway, I'll get back to playing my 8 copies of worse-than-Concentrate Distant Memories now! Thanks Wizards!
No, that is not what I believe. I'm not sure what happens to unopened packs. It's not clear. I'd like to think they may take their unopened packs, but that is irrelevant to what we are actually argued about. We aren't arguing over the unopened packs, nor the cards that are already picked. We are arguing over cards that are opened, already being drafted, already being picked from, but not yet picked. Packs that are already opened are covered in the rules, and it seems to me the rules require the opened pack to remain in the draft.
The hypothesis for the unpicked cards to remain in the draft is "If a player is unable or unwilling to continue drafting". The hypothesis is not "If a player is unable or unwilling to continue drafting AND still wishes to participate in the event". How is wanting to leave the draft or drop in any way different from being unwilling to continue drafting?
According to the rules, the unpicked cards are not owned by the player. According to the rules, if the player holding the cards is unwilling to continue the draft, the unpicked cards remain in the draft and are picked by a judge at random. It is right there. Explicitly and without ambiguity. In the rules.
Why would Tabek need to mention "no, players may not take cards they do not own from the table" when it is stated explicitly in the rules what happens to the cards that player does not own when they leave?
Honestly, I think Tabek's answer is vague because there will be internal discussion on this matter before they release a more official statement, and they want to leave both options open. He could have easily said, "Yes, they may take the unopened boosters, their picks, and the cards they are holding." or even simply "Yes to all of those (the questions asked in the blog post)." But he didn't.
This interpretation is not contradictory with what Tabek's post says on this matter.
Edited addition for clairty: In addition, the rules technically do not say what happens to unopened boosters, but they seem to imply they are not yet in the draft. The rules do not instruct the unopened packs to remain in the draft, notably unlike already opened but unpicked cards.