I like the list man! Looking forward to the report, hope you post it soon.
Topics of interest:
Expect a lot of BGx? (Wilt-Leaf Liege)
Is the 3/2 Persecution/Deluge split good? I've seen it in the Spanish lists. Work alright?
Rest in Peace...Ballsy. How'd you board?
3 Seize always confuses me...what do you swap in/out? I'm assuming it was because of a lack of space.
E-mail me your report, maybe we can format it and post it on the Source?
You did great, congrats!
I will probably join TheSource. I have enough wins under my belt and solid performances to justify pointing out certain things now. Never felt I had enough under my belt. This continues my sick year with Mav. I also got A LOT of love and support from top Source players -- something I did not expect tbh -- so perhaps it's worth pointing out some key things.
I'm way too tired and hungry and cranky to elaborate right now. The only thing in my list I didn't care for was ZP #3. It was "meh". I probably could have done without that card. Would have paid to pack another QPM (needed 3x in a few places). Had amazing pairings -- I beat the fair decks down. Toxic Deluge was crazy good. Won me 2 games by itself.
Congrats man! Really happy to see Maverick doing well! Some questions, please do elaborate on deluge after whenever you can, depending on what you say, i will probably bite the bullet and get them online (doing pretty good so far with a list close to yours, i think the maindeck i have batterskull instead of sword of light, and i am still not sure about which one is better). Second question, why did you not play the list with confidants? And also, how many games did you steal with marit lage?
I can't mod speak, but I echo Bakofried's sentiments to return the discussion to where it should be. If you wanna ask what deck you should play/buy/get into, take it in the official thread in the main area please. We have derailed this thread a bit.
@Bako: I don't know what to think of that list. I have SCG: Cuse coming up (weeks are flying by) and honestly I don't know if I wanna run GW Maverick or Junk. I got burned in NJ trying to force Dark Maverick in a tempo + miracles room. Pure GW needs Council's but I am unsure how to play that card.
Question: Does anyone have experience with Council's Judgment? I would love to run them in a GW build but have no idea if they are all they're cracked up to be. Plus how do you split them in the MD vs SB?
i actually have experience with council's judgement, so I can answer that to some extend. I started by running 2 of them in the 75 (1 main, 1 board), that was during our last monthly. I ended up taking first place in that one, but the judgement were only useful against merfolk, aka the only time I ever casted copies of that card during the tournament. After that, I tried the same list online for a week's worth of time, and found 2 to be too much for me (the 3 mana is a lot for most matchups, and does nothing against combo). So now I run 1 in the sideboard, and I am happy with it. I pretty much use it as an answer to true name and stoneforge (it came up many times where they can`t flash in batterskull in response, and I found that to be a very important quality for this card), and I like to use it as a one of that can like esperblade used to run a 1-of vindicate as an out to anything. I would play it maindeck, but the card just isn't that needed in the maindeck, IMO, and i find it borderline bad against a lot of decks (mostly all the fast decks). However, when I sided it in, I have never been unhappy to have it (against the slower decks and the true-name decks, mostly).
If you play gw (I play the junk version), I think you can probably run 2 copies in your sideboard, and see how it goes. You might have to cut that number to 1, but I believe 2 copies is the maximum you can afford. However, I don't know if you play it, but I would strongly recommend playing the stage depths combo. I was against that combo in maverick, but I now believe it`s too good to pass up. the number of situations I got out from with a 20/20 marit lage token is just too great to ignore, especially considering the fact that a lot of these situations are the kind of trouble you just can't normally come back from. The "sorry I win" button is something I think Maverick needs now, or if you want, something the deck benefits greatly from.
A reboot of the thread would be a very good initiative, I believe. the deck has changed so much from what it once was that a lot of new information isn't present anymore. It would certainly help centralize scattered information .
So no thoughts on Council's Judgement?
At 3cmc it's a touch pricey, but the effect is almost unparalleled.
In a 1v1 game it basically reads "exile a nonland permanent of your choice." The fact that it doesn't target is so huge, when Legacy has threats like TNN, Mongoose, Argothian Enchantress, etc.
The only downside is the three mana price tag, which can be quite a bit in a deck with Thalia and Wasteland.
I like it, considering that we are usually very soft to the untargetable guys, and it's always good to have removal for problematic permanents, when they show up. I think it's a card we should try, and will probably be a solid 2-of in our 75.
So that card kills true name, (and any other annoying hexproof guy or permanent, for that matter). Only problem, it's WW and 3 mana. It's not perfect, but i'm happy that we have something that can work, somewhat, in our colors. Will try a few copies in my list for sure. The effort is there!
Isn't Tsunami a better card than Armageddon as a sideboard card?
I found that sometimes miracles can also just get you with mono plains and other lands such as mystic gate and fetch lands that they can just crack after tsunami resolves. They only really need 2 islands to function in a somewhat stable way anyways. Armageddon just breaks them, with no way to come back from it. (given that you are in a still in a good position after it resolves, which isn't a given)
That's funny, most of the cards I'd consider the first line of defense against Miracles you didn't mention at all, except for Choke.
Choke is a card that one has just because it's so broad, not because it's that good. It's better than something that's just going to eat a Terminus without doing much, or a Swords to Plowshares.
When I want to hate on Miracles, I think of Sylvan Library, Pithing Needle for SDT, Elspeth, and if you really want something narrow, Luminarch Ascension.
Miracles is always going to have the upper hand against us though, it's just the nature of a GSZ-fueled deck vs. one powered by SDT/Terminus.
To defeat Miracles, one wants either an Aether Vial-fueled deck or one that just goes over the top of their defenses, like Goblins/MUD.
I've had this discussion with players IRL about needle against miracles. If it sticks, you're good. But I think it's too narrow of a card + awful as the match goes on and you topdeck into it. So either you're banking on the opening sequence running it out OR you have a dead card. I'd much rather have action in the form of QPM/Decay or Elspeth/Liliana/Garruk. Sylvan Library for sure...that card is just so strong against durdly decks.
As I mentioned above, I'm done with choke. Even in a blue-heavy room. It just doesn't do enough. Miracles can get around it, BUG has DRS and decay to nuke it, and RUG packs so much tempo right now you're never gonna get the thing to stick (and if you do, I could argue you already won that MU/could use any other card).
Decks like Goblins naturally have Vial and a very strange curve of cards. Miracles struggles with that upper end. Plus goblins can sit on gas a la Matron or Ringleader. MUD has a very fast opening sequence where Chalice or Trini = swings the game in their favor fast.
One card I've been debating is Natural Order. I'll be open with this one: I've seen it in a few European lists and can't tell if it's worth 4-5 spots in the SB. Against Miracles I could see potentially eliminating via NO-Progenitus
I am right there with you with choke. My real problem with that card is that you absolutely have to resolve it in a position where it will be a blowout, like when they tap out for something. The problem is, good miracle players will never simply tap out for something, and even of you get them with their pants down, it's not even a given that it will hinder them enough for you to leverage it into a game winning position. So, I am totally with you on this one, no more chokes for me. And it's as you said against bug/other blue midrange decks/tempo decks.
Speaking of Miracles, I think that if i still wanted an effect that attacks their mana, I would go old school Armageddon on them. At least, it actually wins if it sticks, but the downside is that you absolutely need a good on-board position for you to consider playing that card, which is not a given, when we talk about miracles. But that is also very narrow, unless you want to blow that local 12 post guy out, but at least it actually wins the game right away. Then, yes, you have pitting needle (very good against them), Luminarch Ascension and bitterblossom as other narrow kill-you cards, and plainswalkers (garuck is a bit better against miracles because of the extra power for the tokens).
Finally, I think your list if probably the best suited against miracles, imo (with bobs maindeck, pridemage along with the usual creature package). I was not a fan for bob in this deck, but more and more, you are convincing me. Especially your last list, that looks pretty damn solid. I will try it out in a short future.
I'll agree that Maverick is weak to sweepers, but I do have to note that Terminus couldn't care less about this guy. I don't know if he does enough against other common sweepers like Golgari Charm and Zealous Persecution, as decks packing those will likely be packing Deathrite Shamans, possibly in conjunction with a Sc'ooze. Sadly, I don't know how much he helps there. Just my thoughts.
I guess he really doesn't cover against terminus, hmm. Does he get swept by terminus as well? Or only if there's devotion?
I tested Courser in a Junk-Fit list and I found he was just a bad Top. He doesn't give you *much* information; and his card advantage only kicks in if you play him as a 4-drop *and* get lucky. Unlike just running a Top (which is good T1; rather than T3-4) and adjusting up to 3 cards before wasting fetches/GSZs to shuffle; he gives you only a peak; which is only enough to screw you up. Why? Because if you want that card you have to wait a turn to use your KotR/GSZ/etc; which may just mean you lose.
I would probably avoid Courser in most any list unless you're using him to assist you in getting to Sigarda; in which case wasting GSZ on him means you're only 1-mana away..
Good to know! And I think that even when you use sigarda, knight stays a better creature to tutor, as he can actually help you cast the card in almost every situation.
Speaking of tech, I saw on thesource Behemoth sledge come up as a possible equipment in order to help us race a true name, via trample and lifelink. I find that card very interesting, and might try it out (either the sledge or loxodon warhammer) next time I playtest, because why not? might as well. The only thing I don't like is the 3 mana equip, that I find a bit high. Anyways, feel free to discuss and I will keep you guys informed on how it goes.
What a game by Rietzl!!! Also, just to make the last ongoing debate even worse for everyone, we get both Brimaz and Crusader in the same list as 1 ofs.
How good would Courser of Kruphix be in Maverick? It provides card advantage and Green Sun's Zenith can find it (and I haven't seen it mentioned in search results for this thread), but it has only 2 power for 3 mana...
Thought this would be awesome, but is there ever a situation where you prefer this over Knight of the Reliquary? That seems just so much better.
yeah that's the problem, i believe. I really can't imagine a situation where i tutor this over knight. Maybe with life from the loam to double wasteland? And if I want card advantage, I think I would just play a bunch of Bobs, or sylvan librarys and call it a day. I am not sure, but I probably need to see it in action before I can have a better opinion.
How good would Courser of Kruphix be in Maverick? It provides card advantage and Green Sun's Zenith can find it (and I haven't seen it mentioned in search results for this thread), but it has only 2 power for 3 mana...
Interesting. I did not think of that card as playable at first, but it's seeing play even in modern jund right now, so maybe there is something to do with it. Maybe a value 1-of? It also gives us some amount of information about our next cards in our deck, something maverick doesn't normally have access to, aside from sylvan library, however it is a bit on the weak side, statwise. I would like to see if someone has an opinion on this card too.
So what other smaller priced cards have seen major spikes as of the last few days. I've seen a major jump in both runed halo (a good sideboard card, but not $10-15 good in my mind) and to a smaller extent scapeshift. Was this due to time on stream?
I would suspect that it's due to Patrick Chapin's Seminar, friday. At one point he said that one sideboard card he liked in modern right now was runed halo, and he gave a few cases where it would be good against some popular decks. Following that, it's not impossible that someone(s) decided to buyout every copy of the card, right after the seminar.
When we're at the point where people are ready to jump on a card at the mere mention of it, hoping to make huge amounts of money...
And scapeshift is exactly as you said. Due to the fact that it had time on stream, and there were 2 players in he top tables with it, if I remember well
My favorite card is Stoneforge mystic, and I can't even count the number of times I casted her, whether in a commander game or in a sanctioned tournament.
Congrats man! Really happy to see Maverick doing well! Some questions, please do elaborate on deluge after whenever you can, depending on what you say, i will probably bite the bullet and get them online (doing pretty good so far with a list close to yours, i think the maindeck i have batterskull instead of sword of light, and i am still not sure about which one is better). Second question, why did you not play the list with confidants? And also, how many games did you steal with marit lage?
i actually have experience with council's judgement, so I can answer that to some extend. I started by running 2 of them in the 75 (1 main, 1 board), that was during our last monthly. I ended up taking first place in that one, but the judgement were only useful against merfolk, aka the only time I ever casted copies of that card during the tournament. After that, I tried the same list online for a week's worth of time, and found 2 to be too much for me (the 3 mana is a lot for most matchups, and does nothing against combo). So now I run 1 in the sideboard, and I am happy with it. I pretty much use it as an answer to true name and stoneforge (it came up many times where they can`t flash in batterskull in response, and I found that to be a very important quality for this card), and I like to use it as a one of that can like esperblade used to run a 1-of vindicate as an out to anything. I would play it maindeck, but the card just isn't that needed in the maindeck, IMO, and i find it borderline bad against a lot of decks (mostly all the fast decks). However, when I sided it in, I have never been unhappy to have it (against the slower decks and the true-name decks, mostly).
If you play gw (I play the junk version), I think you can probably run 2 copies in your sideboard, and see how it goes. You might have to cut that number to 1, but I believe 2 copies is the maximum you can afford. However, I don't know if you play it, but I would strongly recommend playing the stage depths combo. I was against that combo in maverick, but I now believe it`s too good to pass up. the number of situations I got out from with a 20/20 marit lage token is just too great to ignore, especially considering the fact that a lot of these situations are the kind of trouble you just can't normally come back from. The "sorry I win" button is something I think Maverick needs now, or if you want, something the deck benefits greatly from.
I like it, considering that we are usually very soft to the untargetable guys, and it's always good to have removal for problematic permanents, when they show up. I think it's a card we should try, and will probably be a solid 2-of in our 75.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/conspiracy/22699-councils-judgment
So that card kills true name, (and any other annoying hexproof guy or permanent, for that matter). Only problem, it's WW and 3 mana. It's not perfect, but i'm happy that we have something that can work, somewhat, in our colors. Will try a few copies in my list for sure. The effort is there!
I found that sometimes miracles can also just get you with mono plains and other lands such as mystic gate and fetch lands that they can just crack after tsunami resolves. They only really need 2 islands to function in a somewhat stable way anyways. Armageddon just breaks them, with no way to come back from it. (given that you are in a still in a good position after it resolves, which isn't a given)
I am right there with you with choke. My real problem with that card is that you absolutely have to resolve it in a position where it will be a blowout, like when they tap out for something. The problem is, good miracle players will never simply tap out for something, and even of you get them with their pants down, it's not even a given that it will hinder them enough for you to leverage it into a game winning position. So, I am totally with you on this one, no more chokes for me. And it's as you said against bug/other blue midrange decks/tempo decks.
Speaking of Miracles, I think that if i still wanted an effect that attacks their mana, I would go old school Armageddon on them. At least, it actually wins if it sticks, but the downside is that you absolutely need a good on-board position for you to consider playing that card, which is not a given, when we talk about miracles. But that is also very narrow, unless you want to blow that local 12 post guy out, but at least it actually wins the game right away. Then, yes, you have pitting needle (very good against them), Luminarch Ascension and bitterblossom as other narrow kill-you cards, and plainswalkers (garuck is a bit better against miracles because of the extra power for the tokens).
Finally, I think your list if probably the best suited against miracles, imo (with bobs maindeck, pridemage along with the usual creature package). I was not a fan for bob in this deck, but more and more, you are convincing me. Especially your last list, that looks pretty damn solid. I will try it out in a short future.
only with devotion.
I know its way better. I was just putting out there... Speaking out which, they are also printing true believer on a stick.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/cards/journey-into-nyx/22374-eidolon-of-rhetoric
Eidolon of Rhetoric 2w
Enchantment Creature - Spirit
Each player can't cast more than one spell each turn.
1/4
So rule of law, but straped on a creature.
Good to know! And I think that even when you use sigarda, knight stays a better creature to tutor, as he can actually help you cast the card in almost every situation.
Speaking of tech, I saw on thesource Behemoth sledge come up as a possible equipment in order to help us race a true name, via trample and lifelink. I find that card very interesting, and might try it out (either the sledge or loxodon warhammer) next time I playtest, because why not? might as well. The only thing I don't like is the 3 mana equip, that I find a bit high. Anyways, feel free to discuss and I will keep you guys informed on how it goes.
yeah that's the problem, i believe. I really can't imagine a situation where i tutor this over knight. Maybe with life from the loam to double wasteland? And if I want card advantage, I think I would just play a bunch of Bobs, or sylvan librarys and call it a day. I am not sure, but I probably need to see it in action before I can have a better opinion.
Interesting. I did not think of that card as playable at first, but it's seeing play even in modern jund right now, so maybe there is something to do with it. Maybe a value 1-of? It also gives us some amount of information about our next cards in our deck, something maverick doesn't normally have access to, aside from sylvan library, however it is a bit on the weak side, statwise. I would like to see if someone has an opinion on this card too.
I would suspect that it's due to Patrick Chapin's Seminar, friday. At one point he said that one sideboard card he liked in modern right now was runed halo, and he gave a few cases where it would be good against some popular decks. Following that, it's not impossible that someone(s) decided to buyout every copy of the card, right after the seminar.
When we're at the point where people are ready to jump on a card at the mere mention of it, hoping to make huge amounts of money...
And scapeshift is exactly as you said. Due to the fact that it had time on stream, and there were 2 players in he top tables with it, if I remember well