http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=21871 the list had been here for a little while from some event, all these questions about how it wins and add red, should reffer to the deck tech probably
The 'some event' is called Magic Online over the past month and a half.
secondly, red is really good in this deck, adds a different dynamic....
This is the list I play consistenly, and have for months now (small variations here and there, currently no profane but with a warhammer)
You can look it up, there was a period a few weeks ago in which I was not working much, so I started playing in MTGO Standard events, and I top 8ed 4 of 6 events I played in
I hate the fact that this deck is considered black/white tokens... I agree much with Karbonat. Basically this deck is KITHKIN with Bitterblossom and Thoughtseize.
To me, since playing BRW tokens for the past forever (since Lorwyn block season), this version plays some cards that leave me to question.
Glorious Anthem, Ajani Goldmane, Murderous Redcap, among others.
Goldmane to me, is very overrated.
Secondly I disagree that red is needed to win. This deck has had much success on Magic Online over the past month and a half. If you look back at decklists, it has made many top 8s by different players (as well as my Red-Black-White variant of which I am pretty much the only person that plays it)
Anyways, I can't say I am suprised. I knew it was some time coming, but with some of the people playing it, talking about how bad the manabase is, I would just tell them to try the version with red (my list). I may be biased towards it, but I still honestly think it is the best variant. It gives you a great matchup against anything, and can only get better after sideboard.
Raikou, as I said before, in the TOKENS thread in the above forums, Nantuko Husk is bad...... BAD BAD BAD... as in.. NOT GOOD.... it finds its place in decks with Grave Pact as a way to control your opponents board, and finds its way into green-black-red tokens because you have thrinax.... Other than that, the card never really does much. it may force blocks, but dies the same way anything else does to wrath of god....
anyways that is my rant, congrats to everyone playing this deck, hope you all do good.. glad to see token variants out there being played by more than a handfull of people.
Grave Pact is hardly dependent on Nantuko Husk. It turns all your trades into 2-for-1s and will allow you to easily take advantage of combat.
what i am saying is, if im playing green or white, there should be no need for husk, and no need for gravepact as the macthups i would want it, i win by torrent or furystoking with those tokens in play....
there are more productive cards is what i am saying
Raikou, you are wrong in so many instances it isnt even funny....
Green version, birds sucks...
it accelerates you, if it lives.... against RDW, dead, against Kithkin, just a 0/1 and dead card.... a bad topdeck, and forces you to play more painlands for mana consistency (and turn 1 BoP)
RBW is not slow at all.... it is just as capable of a turn 5 win than RBG version.... also points me to another area where you are COMPLETELY wrong...
Spectral and Elspeth are not the reasons to play white..
The reasons to play white..... Windbrisk Heights, Cloudgoat Ranger, Elspeth, Spectral Procession, AND the most important? AJANI VENGEANT....
Tokens simply loses if you run out of gas, and forcing an Elspeth or Ajani against most long-control based matchups puts much pressure on them.
Also, Mind Stone is bad... the deck does NOT need acceleration.....
Jbone hit it right on the head.... why would you play a dead card like BoP, accelerates you into just getting whatever you played off of it, wrathed away on turn 4..... Also, how much do you need to accelerate? I mean, assuming your deck is good, you are playing a 2 drop, such as Bitterblossom..... therefore, what is so relevant to be NEEDED to be played a turn sooner?
and you say its for aggro? Well, why would you play birds when you could instead play Kitchen Finks? Fits both the green and white versions, and is a pill for aggro to deal with, also think about what aggro you are needing to beat? Kithkin.... and Red Deck Wins..... (honorable mention to elfball as it is cheap, eventhough its a pile...it still gets played on mtgo) Kithkin, what are you worried about on turns one and two? RDW, he gains you life, and blocks twice, sometimes forcing a time walk as it forces your opponent to make FoD a 4/4 on turn 3/4
Also, Kitchen Finks is a solid threat against faeries, and is a pain for control to deal with... (as they also have them, and forces their wraths to be spent differently)
Another thing for aggro? mondomole hit it right on as well by allowing more 2cc drops.... I include Dragon Fodder in my build (RBW), as well as Shriekmaw.... considered 2cc to me as you can use him as needed. It also allows you to persist your Furystoke Giants, and gives you an answer on turn 2, and turn 5+ when you torrent..... also giving that torrent an extra bonus of a 5/2 Fear creature that also terror's a creature your opponent controls
Arcane Scribbles - Gravepact limits you to different strategies..... I would say it is a good card, but it is not as good now that you do not have a legitimate way to abuse it as you did before (Greater Gargadon).... I hate Nantuko Husk, but if I played him in a deck, the only version I would is the black/red version..... Also, you can hardly consider that version 'tokens' now as well. I mean you do have some token producers, but you are still very limited.....
also.... dragon fodder is good
DRjester.... I tested Figure of Destiny before.... it is too slow and mana intensive... it usually sticks as a 2/2 as you almost always have plays on turn 3+ I did play against a version with Ranger of Eos, but it also played Soul Warden, which seems good for a mirror match...
it is a key card in many token decks (RWB, as I play).... I do often board it out in aggro matchups though, as games two and three I would rather play a more control-style deck against aggro...
Usually against kithkin they come out for *** or Firespout... RDW they come out for Forge Tender....
ZetaZeta - I communicated with the sellers selling me the items, and they waited. Then they got tired of waiting and reported me as an unpaying buyer within the last stages of my paypal investigation. I also believe the guy who purchased the Tundras from me was trying to dupe me for the Tundras.
azmod - my paypal account had a hold on it while they gathered all the information regarding the item I sold, and then conducting their investigation.
jokalhaups - comparable to fatguy poolshark's post....
So, I am going on record by saying Ebay is the most idiotic pointless service ever. I have recently come to this conclusion with the terrible service they have given me.
Here is the story.
So, about a month and a half ago, I sold 4 MTG Tundra on Ebay. I sent the item about two days after receiving the payment (I believe payment was sent in the evening on a Friday or Saturday night, item was sent following Monday)
The following Saturday, the item was not received. The buyer then filed a claim with Paypal, and Paypal proceeded to put a hold on my account, and any incoming funds received.
In the mean time, I had purchased multipule items on Ebay that were awaiting payment. Yet, with the outstanding claim with Paypal, I could not pay for the items.
So time went by as the process of Paypal's buyer protection policy progressed, I supplied a tracking number, and three and a half weeks later, my Paypal was reinstated.
So, it was going well as I had one seller report me as a non-paying buyer, and I was due to pay the others as soon as my account was reinstated. Yet, when I log into ebay, I have outstanding strikes on my account. Two other sellers had reported me, and ebay put a block on my account. This means, I could not pay for an item I had purchased.
Enter : the fun part.
So, I e-mailed each seller who left an item strike upon my account, explained the situation, and that I wanted to still buy the item, if possible. I received no replies after a week, and followed up by e-mailing Ebay in regards to my account status, and removing the strikes, with an appeal by their guidelines.
Two weeks passed and I had not received an e-mail back from Ebay. I logged in on Thanksgiving Day, to see that the remaining two items I had purchased, now had item strikes. So, I E-mailed them again, and have not received an e-mail since.
So I called them this morning, and spoke with someone, who transferred me somewhere else. The girl then walked me through everything on the HELP section on Ebay. Then realized I have already read all of this, and told me she couldn't do anything. I asked to speak to someone who could do soemthing. Her supervisor got on the line. She then started doing the same thing.
I told her I knew all of this already, and needed to resolve this. She told me to then call each seller and ask them to remove the strikes, and that if they still have them I can still purchase them with Paypal. I asked her about four times, in different ways how I could resolve this if I could not get them to remove the strikes.
The fifth time I asked, she told me to call back.
So now I am stuck in a large situation that is going to be a project needing time, which I do not have.
All in all, you can find anything you want on that site, but I want to warn everyone their customer service is terrible. Each person resolves all your issues by reading the walkthrough guide on their monitor. I guess you can imagine it being similar to calling AT&T or SBC about your internet or cell phone. Ridiculous.
The 'some event' is called Magic Online over the past month and a half.
secondly, red is really good in this deck, adds a different dynamic....
This is the list I play consistenly, and have for months now (small variations here and there, currently no profane but with a warhammer)
3 Cloudgoat Ranger
4 Furystoke Giant
3 Kitchen Finks
4 Marsh Flitter
2 Shriekmaw
4 Dragon Fodder
1 Profane Command
4 Spectral Procession
2 Torrent of Souls
3 Battlefield Forge
1 Caves of Koilos
4 Fetid Heath
1 Plains
4 Reflecting Pool
2 Rugged Prairie
2 Swamp
3 Vivid Marsh
1 Vivid Meadow
4 Windbrisk Heights
2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
60 cards
You can look it up, there was a period a few weeks ago in which I was not working much, so I started playing in MTGO Standard events, and I top 8ed 4 of 6 events I played in
To me, since playing BRW tokens for the past forever (since Lorwyn block season), this version plays some cards that leave me to question.
Glorious Anthem, Ajani Goldmane, Murderous Redcap, among others.
Goldmane to me, is very overrated.
Secondly I disagree that red is needed to win. This deck has had much success on Magic Online over the past month and a half. If you look back at decklists, it has made many top 8s by different players (as well as my Red-Black-White variant of which I am pretty much the only person that plays it)
Anyways, I can't say I am suprised. I knew it was some time coming, but with some of the people playing it, talking about how bad the manabase is, I would just tell them to try the version with red (my list). I may be biased towards it, but I still honestly think it is the best variant. It gives you a great matchup against anything, and can only get better after sideboard.
Raikou, as I said before, in the TOKENS thread in the above forums, Nantuko Husk is bad...... BAD BAD BAD... as in.. NOT GOOD.... it finds its place in decks with Grave Pact as a way to control your opponents board, and finds its way into green-black-red tokens because you have thrinax.... Other than that, the card never really does much. it may force blocks, but dies the same way anything else does to wrath of god....
anyways that is my rant, congrats to everyone playing this deck, hope you all do good.. glad to see token variants out there being played by more than a handfull of people.
what i am saying is, if im playing green or white, there should be no need for husk, and no need for gravepact as the macthups i would want it, i win by torrent or furystoking with those tokens in play....
there are more productive cards is what i am saying
Green version, birds sucks...
it accelerates you, if it lives.... against RDW, dead, against Kithkin, just a 0/1 and dead card.... a bad topdeck, and forces you to play more painlands for mana consistency (and turn 1 BoP)
RBW is not slow at all.... it is just as capable of a turn 5 win than RBG version.... also points me to another area where you are COMPLETELY wrong...
Spectral and Elspeth are not the reasons to play white..
The reasons to play white..... Windbrisk Heights, Cloudgoat Ranger, Elspeth, Spectral Procession, AND the most important? AJANI VENGEANT....
Tokens simply loses if you run out of gas, and forcing an Elspeth or Ajani against most long-control based matchups puts much pressure on them.
Also, Mind Stone is bad... the deck does NOT need acceleration.....
Jbone hit it right on the head.... why would you play a dead card like BoP, accelerates you into just getting whatever you played off of it, wrathed away on turn 4..... Also, how much do you need to accelerate? I mean, assuming your deck is good, you are playing a 2 drop, such as Bitterblossom..... therefore, what is so relevant to be NEEDED to be played a turn sooner?
and you say its for aggro? Well, why would you play birds when you could instead play Kitchen Finks? Fits both the green and white versions, and is a pill for aggro to deal with, also think about what aggro you are needing to beat? Kithkin.... and Red Deck Wins..... (honorable mention to elfball as it is cheap, eventhough its a pile...it still gets played on mtgo) Kithkin, what are you worried about on turns one and two? RDW, he gains you life, and blocks twice, sometimes forcing a time walk as it forces your opponent to make FoD a 4/4 on turn 3/4
Also, Kitchen Finks is a solid threat against faeries, and is a pain for control to deal with... (as they also have them, and forces their wraths to be spent differently)
Another thing for aggro? mondomole hit it right on as well by allowing more 2cc drops.... I include Dragon Fodder in my build (RBW), as well as Shriekmaw.... considered 2cc to me as you can use him as needed. It also allows you to persist your Furystoke Giants, and gives you an answer on turn 2, and turn 5+ when you torrent..... also giving that torrent an extra bonus of a 5/2 Fear creature that also terror's a creature your opponent controls
Arcane Scribbles - Gravepact limits you to different strategies..... I would say it is a good card, but it is not as good now that you do not have a legitimate way to abuse it as you did before (Greater Gargadon).... I hate Nantuko Husk, but if I played him in a deck, the only version I would is the black/red version..... Also, you can hardly consider that version 'tokens' now as well. I mean you do have some token producers, but you are still very limited.....
also.... dragon fodder is good
DRjester.... I tested Figure of Destiny before.... it is too slow and mana intensive... it usually sticks as a 2/2 as you almost always have plays on turn 3+ I did play against a version with Ranger of Eos, but it also played Soul Warden, which seems good for a mirror match...
I got 9th.... =/
Think about it.
The 2007 Inductee to the MTG Hall of Fame, allows him to play in any Pro Tour he wished.
Maybe this ultimately is for the better?
Tooth and Nail
Akroma, Angel of Fury
Absorb/Undermine
Also, as for standard goes.
Furystoke Giant
Spiteful Visions
Marsh Flitter/Cloudgoat Ranger
Elspeth Knight Errant
and Vitihan Stinger
Usually against kithkin they come out for *** or Firespout... RDW they come out for Forge Tender....
#1 Color
#2 Type (creature, instant sorcery, ect)
#3 Casting Cost
if I am sorting collection I first sort by common/uncommon/rare... and then use the above method
I got to wondering how many other people listen to music while they play (Via tournament, casual, or online)
Also, what do you listen to.
I find smoother live music calms me down, and focuses me more (Dave Matthews Band) ideally is what I listen to.
azmod - my paypal account had a hold on it while they gathered all the information regarding the item I sold, and then conducting their investigation.
jokalhaups - comparable to fatguy poolshark's post....
Here is the story.
So, about a month and a half ago, I sold 4 MTG Tundra on Ebay. I sent the item about two days after receiving the payment (I believe payment was sent in the evening on a Friday or Saturday night, item was sent following Monday)
The following Saturday, the item was not received. The buyer then filed a claim with Paypal, and Paypal proceeded to put a hold on my account, and any incoming funds received.
In the mean time, I had purchased multipule items on Ebay that were awaiting payment. Yet, with the outstanding claim with Paypal, I could not pay for the items.
So time went by as the process of Paypal's buyer protection policy progressed, I supplied a tracking number, and three and a half weeks later, my Paypal was reinstated.
So, it was going well as I had one seller report me as a non-paying buyer, and I was due to pay the others as soon as my account was reinstated. Yet, when I log into ebay, I have outstanding strikes on my account. Two other sellers had reported me, and ebay put a block on my account. This means, I could not pay for an item I had purchased.
Enter : the fun part.
So, I e-mailed each seller who left an item strike upon my account, explained the situation, and that I wanted to still buy the item, if possible. I received no replies after a week, and followed up by e-mailing Ebay in regards to my account status, and removing the strikes, with an appeal by their guidelines.
Two weeks passed and I had not received an e-mail back from Ebay. I logged in on Thanksgiving Day, to see that the remaining two items I had purchased, now had item strikes. So, I E-mailed them again, and have not received an e-mail since.
So I called them this morning, and spoke with someone, who transferred me somewhere else. The girl then walked me through everything on the HELP section on Ebay. Then realized I have already read all of this, and told me she couldn't do anything. I asked to speak to someone who could do soemthing. Her supervisor got on the line. She then started doing the same thing.
I told her I knew all of this already, and needed to resolve this. She told me to then call each seller and ask them to remove the strikes, and that if they still have them I can still purchase them with Paypal. I asked her about four times, in different ways how I could resolve this if I could not get them to remove the strikes.
The fifth time I asked, she told me to call back.
So now I am stuck in a large situation that is going to be a project needing time, which I do not have.
All in all, you can find anything you want on that site, but I want to warn everyone their customer service is terrible. Each person resolves all your issues by reading the walkthrough guide on their monitor. I guess you can imagine it being similar to calling AT&T or SBC about your internet or cell phone. Ridiculous.
[/end rant]