I went 6-2 Loosing only to Timesieve and to a miss-sideboard vs Naya (took out wrath and added slayers )
THe deck my opponent was playing had only 4 negates as counterspells. there was litteraly nothing i could do to win since i hadnt dedicated spots in my sideboard vs the deck. If I had to add anything in the deck, it would be pithing needle (3 of em) in place of the bolts. I only added the bolts because of the HUGE amount of Bant-conscription players (eot bolt escort, then wrath or just take out a snake.)
Had i the needles, the way i would have won would be:
- Purge U/B posts
- Ol ring the Holwing mines
- Needle naming sieve (if i have multiples, the second naming tezzeret)
- Negate Tezzerets and into the roils
I would have to redo my sideboard IF i expect more sieves coming. The one i faced was when i was 3-1 in round 4. So what does this mean?
Im not going to bother dedicating sideboard slots IN MY META vs timesieve. No one ever plays it in my town, and i only see one or two in a tournament of 170is people in the city i go to for PTQs.
I mean come on, you have to be REALLY unlucky to not be able to do something about it. after sideboard, HALF of my deck is preety much 2 or less mana cost answers. Some even run more stuff like kor firewalker, baneslayer etc..
Report: I just played against Plated geopede and sedraxis specter jund. It is actually LESS threatening than the original. THeir threats come later and after board we have path+purge to deal with specters. Geopedes get chumped witll they can get helixed, gideoned or just rfg'ed one way or another. I was expecting a more threatening deck they way people were going about it but it doesnt seem that threatening post-board. Even pre-board with their terramorphic expanses, it just slows them down to our rythim too much.
Every single time you resolve telemin performance against time sieve you loose. It helps them. You might as well play that land that says skip your turn. its pretty bad.
but they have no creatures, no? if you telemin, its on your turn, their whole library is gone. They draw into nothing on their turn. Do they still run that 2/2 creature that only does 1 non-artifact spell per turn?
How about using the spots we already use to counter other control decks.
Such as meddling mage and telemin performance? I did not expect to see any time sieve decks at our National Qualifiers (Quebec, Canada) so there were only two in total i think I saw two out of approx 200 people.
It either means they got dropped out in the first two rounds or there really wasnt a significant number of people playing it. I have NEVER played against it, but for those who have, when you won a game, how did it usually go, and would meddling mage and telemin performance help?
I was thinking today, considering a good chunk of events are going to be U/W and U/W/R now, why not run Jace 1.0 instead of Divination? It essentially costs the same, and keeps them from dropping Jace 2.0 until its dealt with. Then you can use the -1 ability for 2 turns, then kill it on the 3rd turn its out, and drop your own Jace 2.0.
I feel like its a much stronger 3 drop for this deck and is a lot more useful.
thoughts?
If you really expect to see a lot more control decks than the rest, there is no reason not to do that. My meta is mostly gonna be jund/mythic/monowhite/grixis/Naya.
I wouldnt run jace 1.0 in mine cause too many decks back blightning and lightning bolt. Since divination counters at least the discard part of the blightnight, it always ends up being better to play divination in my area.
So, instead of just pointing out the problems, any solutions for the new jund?, we just chump the geopede till we wrath? we play 2 earthquakes in addition? we play lightning bolts?
Anyone played against the new jund? it seems fairly new and i dont know anyone in my playgroup and area who plays or has played against it.
The new Jund list is a very rough match. Seas doesn't really stall them and they're often able to swing in for 10+ before you can stall/wipe the board.
Do you have a link of the new jund deck list? or at least a deck name i can search with to give us an idea?
I agree. WE need a thread for this deck. Maybe we can change the name of this thread so we can have a continuous discussion. I have been playing this list for a while and i love the different options you can pilot to victory with this deck.:
Notes: Luminarch ascension in the main is sick vs jund. somehow most matches ive won vs jund/naya/bant were with a luminarc + wall or some other stall engine.
I have been considering running spreading seas, since most of the games i loose are decided within the first four turns (jund only really.. which is BIG in my meta)
I would probably cut the treasure hunts since most of the time in early game when i need gas, i can never seem to get a good one off but late game when i am preety far ahead, i have more time to pull of depths+jace+treasure hunt shennanigans, which is preety useless at that point since im soo far ahead...
just won a 3 round 8 man tourney with my test build
...
game 2 was vs a bloodquake. His initial barrage of hellsparks hit me hard but dealing with bloodghasts for himw as problem plus all my new removal was very effective on his 1 toughness creatures. Eartquake also seemed to little to late thanks to the basilisk/hexmage combo.
...
Sorry for paraphrasing your quote Logicalnoise, but I would like to know:
I hadnt even thought about it untill Logical noise brought it up.
Keep in mind that whenever ANY DECK, no matter how fast or slow, whenever they see nighthawk, they just kill it, no questions asked
What If every bloodghast coming their way, or every gatekeeper after its edict effect came at them with lifelkink and deathtouch. Of course we cant run more than two in the deck, but I will test it out for the next few days and i just wanted to get your input. I noticed against jund and blue white control, each of my gatekeepers become useless after they are dropped and just run into 0/8 walls while running at Jace, which SUCKS. Imagine if blooghast was as scary as nighthawk, but with free recursion (landfall).
Since we lost our one drop (disfigure), how interesting would this addition be?
I'm testing a similar deck, but a have problems with Eldrazi Elves.., u too?
y do you guys not sideboard 4 deathmarks? I have four in my sideboard against jund, mono-white, eldrazi green, Bant and Naya lightsabre (so, preety much EVERYONE exept the mirror and mill?)
Awesome when you are on the draw and they drop a turn 1 llanowar(eldrazi) or a turn 2 leech (jund) and you deal with it right away.
Usually with Eldrazi elves, I side out my bloodghasts and throw in more spot removal. Creatures that must die once they hit the board are: Llanowar (noble hierarch), master of the wild hunt, Nissa Revane and ant queen. Vs eldrazi green would be another opportunity to put in sorin markov.
Actually I beg to differ, from my FNM matches she is really solid. The only problem is that she is most effective after you sludge out your opponent. She has locked games for me against the control matchup. I sludge em out then crash her down and beat them down with my vamps while she forces them into topdeck mode and keeps them there.
TheDarksyde86 is right. With Liliana vess, I have managed to lockdown players who play WU control OR four color control (baneslayer, sphinx of truths etc..)
When I pulled off her ultimate and dropped the 2-1 first striker, a baneslayer, a sphinx of lost truths AND a few nighthawks from my grave, he just scooped.
But then again, after mind sludge sorin markov works WAAY better and against an even broader amount of decks. He even works even without mind sludge. So isntead of liliana, Sorin is just better because he is more versatile.
I love the fact that i can race boros with sorin, without even having to protect him with creatures
Because most of the times you dont want to sacrifice field position for a counter spell (ex: only mistbind in play, or not enough faeries to spellstutter effectively etc.). Sage's dousing is kind of awesome but then again, it would depend on you having a wizard in play (Stutter, Mistbind, Vendilion, Sower) AND sometimes your opponent doesnt mind paying the extra three for that spell to resolve (see 5cc, swans)
NOT to mention that familiar ruse can be a dead card sometimes, and i would HATE to have to activate a mutavault so i can bounce it to play the spell (that is 2UU used for a simple counter spell, that would take away a land)
oh yeah, thought hemorage!! i almost forgot about that baby. good for taking out their anathemancers or their cascading elves.
You are right, double negative is not versatile enough. Runed halo is great cause you can deal with threats as they appear and you can use it in many other matchups aswell...
Keep in mind though that some times, you dont care about the spell DOING the cascading, you may want to counter what they are cascading into...
a 3/2 creature for 4 mana sometimes is rarely a threat for us but when it cascades into anathemancer or Maelstrom pulse, that second spell becomes dangerous...
um... what about runed halo? they`d have to boomerang it or at the very least cryptic bounce it.
I already run 2 runed halos main, i could add another. I am guessing we can sideboard sen triplets in for this matchup aswell? Or if you are REALLY worried about it, side in scepters of fugue aswell to make em discard early.The one thing i love about my 5cc deck is the sideboard leaves me sOOO much room cause i dont have to put in more than 2ofs in it.
Methodman, if you are facing a lot of the 5CC bloodbraid, you can add maybe 3 double degative or 3 flashfreeze in the sideboard. Both are equaly effective since flashfreeze hits their whole deck and double negative takes care of the cascade shenaniganz. Or you could go the other way and add 3 plumeveil and 3 wall of reverence instead of wall of denial.
I went to an out of town standard PTQ piloting this:
3 Sea Gate Oracle
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Ajani Vengeant
3 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
3 Gideon Jura
3 Oblivion Ring
4 Spreading Seas
4 Path to Exile
2 Day of Judgment
2 Martial Coup
2 Mountain
4 Plains
4 Arid Mesa
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Celestial Colonnade
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Baneslayer Angel
4 Negate
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Celestial Purge
1 Day of Judgment
THe deck my opponent was playing had only 4 negates as counterspells. there was litteraly nothing i could do to win since i hadnt dedicated spots in my sideboard vs the deck. If I had to add anything in the deck, it would be pithing needle (3 of em) in place of the bolts. I only added the bolts because of the HUGE amount of Bant-conscription players (eot bolt escort, then wrath or just take out a snake.)
Had i the needles, the way i would have won would be:
- Purge U/B posts
- Ol ring the Holwing mines
- Needle naming sieve (if i have multiples, the second naming tezzeret)
- Negate Tezzerets and into the roils
I would have to redo my sideboard IF i expect more sieves coming. The one i faced was when i was 3-1 in round 4. So what does this mean?
Im not going to bother dedicating sideboard slots IN MY META vs timesieve. No one ever plays it in my town, and i only see one or two in a tournament of 170is people in the city i go to for PTQs.
3 flashfreeze
3 Celestial purge
4 Path to exile
4 Wall of omens
3 negate
3 ajani vengeant
I mean come on, you have to be REALLY unlucky to not be able to do something about it. after sideboard, HALF of my deck is preety much 2 or less mana cost answers. Some even run more stuff like kor firewalker, baneslayer etc..
Report: I just played against Plated geopede and sedraxis specter jund. It is actually LESS threatening than the original. THeir threats come later and after board we have path+purge to deal with specters. Geopedes get chumped witll they can get helixed, gideoned or just rfg'ed one way or another. I was expecting a more threatening deck they way people were going about it but it doesnt seem that threatening post-board. Even pre-board with their terramorphic expanses, it just slows them down to our rythim too much.
but they have no creatures, no? if you telemin, its on your turn, their whole library is gone. They draw into nothing on their turn. Do they still run that 2/2 creature that only does 1 non-artifact spell per turn?
Such as meddling mage and telemin performance? I did not expect to see any time sieve decks at our National Qualifiers (Quebec, Canada) so there were only two in total i think I saw two out of approx 200 people.
It either means they got dropped out in the first two rounds or there really wasnt a significant number of people playing it. I have NEVER played against it, but for those who have, when you won a game, how did it usually go, and would meddling mage and telemin performance help?
If you really expect to see a lot more control decks than the rest, there is no reason not to do that. My meta is mostly gonna be jund/mythic/monowhite/grixis/Naya.
I wouldnt run jace 1.0 in mine cause too many decks back blightning and lightning bolt. Since divination counters at least the discard part of the blightnight, it always ends up being better to play divination in my area.
Anyone played against the new jund? it seems fairly new and i dont know anyone in my playgroup and area who plays or has played against it.
Do you have a link of the new jund deck list? or at least a deck name i can search with to give us an idea?
I agree. WE need a thread for this deck. Maybe we can change the name of this thread so we can have a continuous discussion. I have been playing this list for a while and i love the different options you can pilot to victory with this deck.:
Notes: Luminarch ascension in the main is sick vs jund. somehow most matches ive won vs jund/naya/bant were with a luminarc + wall or some other stall engine.
I have been considering running spreading seas, since most of the games i loose are decided within the first four turns (jund only really.. which is BIG in my meta)
I would probably cut the treasure hunts since most of the time in early game when i need gas, i can never seem to get a good one off but late game when i am preety far ahead, i have more time to pull of depths+jace+treasure hunt shennanigans, which is preety useless at that point since im soo far ahead...
Sorry for paraphrasing your quote Logicalnoise, but I would like to know:
Has anyone else playtested Basilisk Collar?
I hadnt even thought about it untill Logical noise brought it up.
Keep in mind that whenever ANY DECK, no matter how fast or slow, whenever they see nighthawk, they just kill it, no questions asked
What If every bloodghast coming their way, or every gatekeeper after its edict effect came at them with lifelkink and deathtouch. Of course we cant run more than two in the deck, but I will test it out for the next few days and i just wanted to get your input. I noticed against jund and blue white control, each of my gatekeepers become useless after they are dropped and just run into 0/8 walls while running at Jace, which SUCKS. Imagine if blooghast was as scary as nighthawk, but with free recursion (landfall).
Since we lost our one drop (disfigure), how interesting would this addition be?
y do you guys not sideboard 4 deathmarks? I have four in my sideboard against jund, mono-white, eldrazi green, Bant and Naya lightsabre (so, preety much EVERYONE exept the mirror and mill?)
Awesome when you are on the draw and they drop a turn 1 llanowar(eldrazi) or a turn 2 leech (jund) and you deal with it right away.
Usually with Eldrazi elves, I side out my bloodghasts and throw in more spot removal. Creatures that must die once they hit the board are: Llanowar (noble hierarch), master of the wild hunt, Nissa Revane and ant queen. Vs eldrazi green would be another opportunity to put in sorin markov.
TheDarksyde86 is right. With Liliana vess, I have managed to lockdown players who play WU control OR four color control (baneslayer, sphinx of truths etc..)
When I pulled off her ultimate and dropped the 2-1 first striker, a baneslayer, a sphinx of lost truths AND a few nighthawks from my grave, he just scooped.
But then again, after mind sludge sorin markov works WAAY better and against an even broader amount of decks. He even works even without mind sludge. So isntead of liliana, Sorin is just better because he is more versatile.
I love the fact that i can race boros with sorin, without even having to protect him with creatures
NOT to mention that familiar ruse can be a dead card sometimes, and i would HATE to have to activate a mutavault so i can bounce it to play the spell (that is 2UU used for a simple counter spell, that would take away a land)
You are right, double negative is not versatile enough. Runed halo is great cause you can deal with threats as they appear and you can use it in many other matchups aswell...
Keep in mind though that some times, you dont care about the spell DOING the cascading, you may want to counter what they are cascading into...
a 3/2 creature for 4 mana sometimes is rarely a threat for us but when it cascades into anathemancer or Maelstrom pulse, that second spell becomes dangerous...
I already run 2 runed halos main, i could add another. I am guessing we can sideboard sen triplets in for this matchup aswell? Or if you are REALLY worried about it, side in scepters of fugue aswell to make em discard early.The one thing i love about my 5cc deck is the sideboard leaves me sOOO much room cause i dont have to put in more than 2ofs in it.
Methodman, if you are facing a lot of the 5CC bloodbraid, you can add maybe 3 double degative or 3 flashfreeze in the sideboard. Both are equaly effective since flashfreeze hits their whole deck and double negative takes care of the cascade shenaniganz. Or you could go the other way and add 3 plumeveil and 3 wall of reverence instead of wall of denial.