And even more MORE specifically, this panels: Garruk's Curse
As you can see, even the beasts he uses are corrupted by the same curse that's corrupting him. He might not want it to be, he might not be able to control and use black mana in the normal sense, but the things he handles have the touch of death to them whether he wants to or not. His options would be: 1) Not use any of his beasts and just fight Liliana one on one (not going to happen and will not have him win) or 2) Use his beasts despite them being cursed to try and get results (which would see the black taint on those beasts, possibly making them or :symb::symg:).
Take a look at the cited source material, in fact zoom in on the baloth in the first panel. Now take a look at an actual BG beast: Spiritmonger. I don't understand how any paralells can be drawn between the two. Backed up by Garruk's monologue, the baloth is in pain, it's malnourished, it's dying, suffering at the hands of the darkness that surrounds it. Spiritmonger isn't, Spiritmonger looks absolutely fine and dandy. Once again this is only based in my interpretation, but if were to compare the curse afflicting Garruk's beast with an in-game metaphor, I would probably liken it to -1/-1 counters. In that vein, you can Grim Afflictionmy Territorial Baloth all day if you like, but it's not going to suddenly become a Drooling Groodion
Well, this is how I see the whole allied color relations thing: ISD seems to be focusing on the allied tribes, yes, two of the tribes will be in all five colors, but that doesn't nessicarily mean that say, a RB spirit or a BR human deck will be viable. It's just that they ARE there for those people who choose a focus on a less tribal-centric strategy.
Now consider it from a design perspective; if ISD is focusing on the allied pairs as much as it seems as it is, then the Innistrad player base as a majority will be focusing on those colors as well, and for something as major as a planeswalker, of course Wizards is going to want to make a card that people are going to want to use. If they have a set focusing on allied colors and then randomly print an enemy card, who would play it? (Once again, speaking in generalizations and taking into account people who would be looking at Innistrad across a wide spectrum of skill)
Now, lets say they do print G-man in BG, lets say he's The Sickness, he's so good that Standard Pro players build GB aggro just to run him. Eventually, this archetype will dwindle as Innistrad's more supported, shall we say, core archetypes get increasing support and become increasingly streamlined. Plus what happens if he's so good that Wizard's has to silver bullet him the way they tried to with Jace? Or if every white deck suddenly starts packing four Mirran Crusaders and four Oblivion Rings in the side? Any way you splice it ends with the eventual decline of said theoretical GB archetype which in turn means Neo Garruk is just another unused 'walker gathering dust next to Sorin 1 in trade binders.
Plus, story-wise, it just doesn't sit straight with me that Garruk would suddenly become B just because he was cursed.
I'm not saying there's no way he'll be GB, he may very well be, all I'm saying is that it just doesn't sound right to me.
For some of us the BG conclusion is not just based on his artwork but also what we know about the character and the state he was in when we last saw him.
Lilliana's curse was fueled by the Chain Veil. From what I could see it forced black mana into him so now any creatures he summons are not the pure G he wants them to be but are in agony having been summoned with both G and B mana.
The block being mono colored or even allied colored should have no basis on what colors the planeswakers appear in. Glissa, the Traitor Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas Venser, the Sojourner
Are all of the gold cards in Scars of Mirrodin block. Notice that 2 of them are legendary and the other two are Planeswalkers. If a mono colored block can have 0.007% gold cards then why can't a graveyard block with a tribal sub-theme with three tribes that happen to appear in allied colors (humans and spirits are confirmed for all five but most are in two) not have an enemy colored planeswalker.
Blame it on me being a Vorthos, but I still say that for Garruk to use black mana he would actually have to spend time and effort learning to do so, which would of course be a deliberate and willful action. In lore, magic requires intense study and focus, even the more primal magics of druid and shamanism require a lifetime of devotion and forming bonds with the craft. One again, going back to my original in-game metaphor, unless it was an actual effect of the card, when was the last time putting a black aura on something made it black?
there's a very large difference between gold cards popping up in a mono-colored block and a high-profile enemy colored card printed in a set that hinges on allied colors. Now at this time we still know very little about innistrad, and it has been said that the tribal aspect is a minor theme, however, from what little we know it does seem to me that Innistrad will be geared towards allied colored decks, otherwise why put so much emphasis on "The R/G tribe, the U/W tribe..." etc?
So excited for ISD, the art looks just incredible, especially, wreath of geists, which makes me hopeful the humans will have some kind of Van Helsing-ish hunter theme:D Can't wait!
Guys, look at the evidence, he's walking more upright, AND he learned to dress himself, obviously the new Garruk is UG
Of course I'm only joking. Sorry, I couldn't resist. If it's any consolation, I hope its BG, I really truly do, but I just dont think it is. Garruk and his beloved beasts are suffering at the hands of black magic right now, the last thing I would expect is for him to say "Oh hey this is neat." There is a big difference between being afflicted by something and applying oneself to wield it. And yes, he was cursed, but when in Magic has casting a black aura on something made that permanent black? (which, I assume, would be the in-game equivalent to what Lilianna did to him) Yes of course there are auras with that functionality but only as a direct effect of that card itself and not of the aura subtype as a whole, they are the exceptions rather than the rule. In addition, it seems odd to me to structure Innistrad around the allied colors with the tribes and then print a seemingly (to me at least) out of place enemy colored walker, although I will admit that it is possible. And I dont expect him to be G/W since, if the whole theory of the other Garruk being the prerelease promo art is true, the colors would need to make sense for both arts. (Unless it turned out to be something like Garruk, the Avenger, then the look on his face in the second art could conceivably be righteous anger instead of just rage) If anything, Garruk seems G/R to me, yes both arts. Yes the art and backgrounds are very dark and have a distinctly black feel, but bear in mind that Innistrad in itself has a very distinctly evil feel. Mickey Mouse would look like the spawn of Satan if we put him in Rakdos Carnarium, just like Lilliana Vess herself might appear white to us if we saw her emerging from Cinderella's Castle. If you ask me, the darker tone is just relative to the tone of the environment as a whole, regardless of color.
Alright, well I did indeed check out the Elf-Ball thread and it's not bad at all. However, they advocated the use of Mercy Killing as Removal, which I thought was interesting, to say the least. My case for MK is simply this, it doesn't change a threat into many threats (unless you're in the mirror, or VS Korlash, as I believe I said) it changes a threat into many chumps. If I have enough elves, and I usually maintain about three, I'm not really going to care how many 1/1's they've got, especially if I mercy kill in their end phase with the intent to Overrun next turn.
Also, I repect the opinion that OBA is too slow, however, I humbly disagree. More often than not, I can get it down on turn two, which means that every other Elf (well, at least Imperious and the ones I intend to attack with, Champ and Llanowar dont charge into the red all that often) is primed and ready to go henceforth, with a substantial damage bonus, might I add. An unchecked Axe-wielding Vanquisher will swing in for no less than 25% of your opponent's life. Plus. with four mana on the board, I can get Imperious down and fire off a 4/3 token in the same turn. Also, while it may hurt like 8 *****es on a ***** boat to topdeck it with nothing else on the table (however the same could be said for Llanowar or Overrun) it's a formidable force to control Post-wrath
Hey guys, I've been thinking (as I am wont to do when there's nothing on the talkin' devil picher box to save me the trouble of doing so) See, last night, I was reviewing my G/B Warrior build when I discovered something that rather irked me. The black in the deck was there solely for removal (with the notable exception of Rhy's Regen trigger) This bothered me because, as a player who's without a vast arsenal of dual lands to call upon, I couldn't shake the feeling that I was just setting myself up for mana-screw somewhere along the line. But as I've said before, now with Shadowmoor out, a mono-green deck could very easily run removal now with Mercy Killing. So I wouldn't have to give up removal entirely if I went totally green like the Elf decks of yore. MK is rather solid in my opinion, it can take out a creature of any size or color regardless of Regeneration at instant speed for only three mana. (EDIT: Not to mention the cool combat tricks you can pull with it once damage goes on the stack) Sure, it's no fun handing your opponent creatures, but I think the only time this will be a problem is in the mirror or VS Korlash. The only thing is, I'm not entirely sure I want to do this, so I thought I'd get some feedback from you guys first. My deck would probably wind up looking like this:
Hmm, good point. That deck could very easily use Mercy Killing come to think of it...that's one of the reasons I was so excited about that card when I first saw it, green finally had a creature-kill spell. It may seem weird, but I earnestly hope that that card finds its way into a core set eventually. I believe it has the potential to fill a hole that's been plagueing mono-green for quite some time.
I don't know of anyone has drawn your attention to this yet or not, and I don't really care. I must do this to show, that if nothing else, at least I own up to my mistakes.
I stand by what I said before, however. With Condemn, Oblivion Ring, Venser, and all the Instant-speed removal that could blast the target before Shield resolved in the format right now, I have no idea how this card even remotely survived. Now to see if it appears in any of the PT Hollywood decks...
Dude, I've said it once, (literally, http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=94129&page=73, #1092) and I'll say it again, NEVER TRUST AURAS! Just because it's "indestructable" doesn't mean the creature can't die. White will Condemn/Oblivion Ring/Mercy Killing it, Black will reduce it, Blue will bounce it, Green will Mercy Killing/Kill Oversoul/Bash around it, and red will just burn you right over it. Also, doesn't it strike you as odd that they would just allow you to "give" indestructability to any creature, at common, no less? That's because with Shadowmoor/Eventide's -1/-1 counter theme damn near any color will have the tool to make your Oversouled creature kiss it's ass goodbye. Lethal damage should be the least of your worries. Shield has two places in this world, Limited, and Casual, so by all means, draft it all you want, but give it to your kid brother when you get home.
Hmm, interseting. There's a guy at my local meta that praises Archers as well. Still though, wouldn't your meta have to be incredibly removal-light to constitute running it? Sure, it's ability basically reads Tap: Pwn target faerie, but you'd need to have a sizeable amount of elves out, otherwise you're just getting a vanilla 1/1 or 2/2 against non-fae decks, no? All I know is rare is the time when my opponent allows me more than two or three little Sindorei (there I go again) on the table at one. Perhaps en masse thet could be trouble, but still...
This is neither here nor there, but I think the Drove will push out Archers after SHA drops, especially in three-color builds as the green's not as cost-intensive. Shroud makes all the difference, especially "Troll Shroud" ,and it benefits from Wolves/Elephants (Garruk Tokens) Plus we wont really have to worry about flying much more with Raking Canopy
It's not blocking I'm worried about, it's Wrath. Even spot removal's a pain in certain situations. I can't begin to recount how many close games I've lost because Opponent McJerkface decided to Shard Volley *insert intended attacker here* With the Elite, we're getting an efficiently costed aggro creature that's resistant to removal, and, if we really want to be jerks about it, we could use Medicine Bearer (another solid elf for aggro as a 2/1 for 2) to keep it around even longer.
On a sidenote, does anybody here think the hexhunter will see play? It's admittedly waaay before my time, but my understanding is that Elvish Lyrist saw quite a bit of play back in Urza's.
Well, the thing is we could always cut non-creature spells. I've seen quite a few high-caliber decks that only run seven or eight (A few Inversions, a couple of Garruks, like two Profanes) My elf deck hovers between 12-14 so if I really wanted to, I could put the axe to a few things, but I think what will most decide what gets cut for Safehold will be (surprise, surprise) the local meta. If the format's loaded with first strike, Thornweald Archer's gonna go. If there's lots of spot-removal Wolf-Skull Shaman probably wont live to produce a token anyway. I also wouldn't be surprised if the less warrior heavy builds shaved off a few copies of Paragon to make room. Also, lest we forget, since the elite's both green and white, he automatically warrants consideration over our other bears if we choose to run the Liege.
Alright! I am back yet again! Sorry, they threatened to not renew my nerd status unless I spent a mandatory week addicted to WoW (on a side note: Four of my seven characters are Night Elves...
I think I have a problem...
Aaaaaaaaanyhoooo, moving on, what about Safehold Elite? I could be wrong, but from where I'm sitting it seems pretty damned good. First of all, it's a bear, and aggro really cant ask for much more than a solid 2/2 for 2. Secondly, it doesn't die. Well, once anyway, allowing us to maintain a defense post-***, or, preventing an opponent from blasting a vital blocker, something that's happened to me more than once. Plus it makes us easier to maindeck damnations/wraths ourselves.
Now, it could be argued that an opponent could very easily bring about its demise with Shadowmoor's -1/-1 theme, but I've yet to see an efficiently costed card that can dump a slew of counters on one thing at once. What's he gonna do? Scar it twice? Let him! Two-fer! In fact, I seriously doubt they'd waste a single scar just to deny us a pseudo-squire, when they'd be better served holding it for one of our utility 1/1s. No?
I know. I was thinking about Crib Swap when I made my statement. The thing is, Mercy Killing works just as great as a combat trick. If you are trampling over and your opponent's biggest creature disappears... all those 1/1s are not going to be much help to them once they hit 0 life. Yes, hitting your own creature is the widest (don't read as "best") application for it, but it's not the only use. Plus, would you rather your opponent had Colossus or 4 elves? Would you rather they have Stuffy or 0 elves? How about Doran or 0 elves? There are plenty of smaller creatures that have nasty abilities that I would rather see in the graveyard than on the field. So yes Crib Swap is up there. But I would say that the uses for Mercy Killing are just as many. While I would not necessarily say that one is better than the other (especially without testing), I cannot discount the power of either.
i never advocate judging a card without testing it first, however, there are three reasons mercy deserves a md slot over crib swap. 1. mana cost: need green? need white? no problem! 2. versatility: removal and anti-removal in one convienient little package. 3. the token is not a changeling: ergo, youre not trading one bullet for another against a tribal build. the last guy to swap me only succeeded in trading a 2/2 perfect for a 3/3 beatstick. just dont blast with it in the mirror and youll be fine. also, regarding shield of the oversoul, that things a wrecking ball in g/w limited. that being said, i wholeheartedly doubt youll see it in constructed. green will naturalize that crap, white has condemn, red will burn you to death right over it, black will just throw a slough of -1/-1 at it an kill it via sbe, and blue will just bounce whatever you stick it on and watch the shield tumble to the dump. p.s. please excuse my indescretions here (i.e. lack of capitalization and card tags) i typed this whole thing on a cell phone.:)
Take a look at the cited source material, in fact zoom in on the baloth in the first panel. Now take a look at an actual BG beast: Spiritmonger. I don't understand how any paralells can be drawn between the two. Backed up by Garruk's monologue, the baloth is in pain, it's malnourished, it's dying, suffering at the hands of the darkness that surrounds it. Spiritmonger isn't, Spiritmonger looks absolutely fine and dandy. Once again this is only based in my interpretation, but if were to compare the curse afflicting Garruk's beast with an in-game metaphor, I would probably liken it to -1/-1 counters. In that vein, you can Grim Afflictionmy Territorial Baloth all day if you like, but it's not going to suddenly become a Drooling Groodion
Now consider it from a design perspective; if ISD is focusing on the allied pairs as much as it seems as it is, then the Innistrad player base as a majority will be focusing on those colors as well, and for something as major as a planeswalker, of course Wizards is going to want to make a card that people are going to want to use. If they have a set focusing on allied colors and then randomly print an enemy card, who would play it? (Once again, speaking in generalizations and taking into account people who would be looking at Innistrad across a wide spectrum of skill)
Now, lets say they do print G-man in BG, lets say he's The Sickness, he's so good that Standard Pro players build GB aggro just to run him. Eventually, this archetype will dwindle as Innistrad's more supported, shall we say, core archetypes get increasing support and become increasingly streamlined. Plus what happens if he's so good that Wizard's has to silver bullet him the way they tried to with Jace? Or if every white deck suddenly starts packing four Mirran Crusaders and four Oblivion Rings in the side? Any way you splice it ends with the eventual decline of said theoretical GB archetype which in turn means Neo Garruk is just another unused 'walker gathering dust next to Sorin 1 in trade binders.
Plus, story-wise, it just doesn't sit straight with me that Garruk would suddenly become B just because he was cursed.
I'm not saying there's no way he'll be GB, he may very well be, all I'm saying is that it just doesn't sound right to me.
Blame it on me being a Vorthos, but I still say that for Garruk to use black mana he would actually have to spend time and effort learning to do so, which would of course be a deliberate and willful action. In lore, magic requires intense study and focus, even the more primal magics of druid and shamanism require a lifetime of devotion and forming bonds with the craft. One again, going back to my original in-game metaphor, unless it was an actual effect of the card, when was the last time putting a black aura on something made it black?
there's a very large difference between gold cards popping up in a mono-colored block and a high-profile enemy colored card printed in a set that hinges on allied colors. Now at this time we still know very little about innistrad, and it has been said that the tribal aspect is a minor theme, however, from what little we know it does seem to me that Innistrad will be geared towards allied colored decks, otherwise why put so much emphasis on "The R/G tribe, the U/W tribe..." etc?
Of course I'm only joking. Sorry, I couldn't resist. If it's any consolation, I hope its BG, I really truly do, but I just dont think it is. Garruk and his beloved beasts are suffering at the hands of black magic right now, the last thing I would expect is for him to say "Oh hey this is neat." There is a big difference between being afflicted by something and applying oneself to wield it. And yes, he was cursed, but when in Magic has casting a black aura on something made that permanent black? (which, I assume, would be the in-game equivalent to what Lilianna did to him) Yes of course there are auras with that functionality but only as a direct effect of that card itself and not of the aura subtype as a whole, they are the exceptions rather than the rule. In addition, it seems odd to me to structure Innistrad around the allied colors with the tribes and then print a seemingly (to me at least) out of place enemy colored walker, although I will admit that it is possible. And I dont expect him to be G/W since, if the whole theory of the other Garruk being the prerelease promo art is true, the colors would need to make sense for both arts. (Unless it turned out to be something like Garruk, the Avenger, then the look on his face in the second art could conceivably be righteous anger instead of just rage) If anything, Garruk seems G/R to me, yes both arts. Yes the art and backgrounds are very dark and have a distinctly black feel, but bear in mind that Innistrad in itself has a very distinctly evil feel. Mickey Mouse would look like the spawn of Satan if we put him in Rakdos Carnarium, just like Lilliana Vess herself might appear white to us if we saw her emerging from Cinderella's Castle. If you ask me, the darker tone is just relative to the tone of the environment as a whole, regardless of color.
Also, I repect the opinion that OBA is too slow, however, I humbly disagree. More often than not, I can get it down on turn two, which means that every other Elf (well, at least Imperious and the ones I intend to attack with, Champ and Llanowar dont charge into the red all that often) is primed and ready to go henceforth, with a substantial damage bonus, might I add. An unchecked Axe-wielding Vanquisher will swing in for no less than 25% of your opponent's life. Plus. with four mana on the board, I can get Imperious down and fire off a 4/3 token in the same turn. Also, while it may hurt like 8 *****es on a ***** boat to topdeck it with nothing else on the table (however the same could be said for Llanowar or Overrun) it's a formidable force to control Post-wrath
2 Vivid Grove
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Mutavault
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Winnower Patrol
3 Rhys the Exiled
3 Elvish Champion
1 Wren's Run Packmaster
4 Mercy Killing
3 Overrun
The sideboard would likely include some Fairy-hate and maybe a set of Terrors for the mirror, among other things of course.
Wow...
I don't know of anyone has drawn your attention to this yet or not, and I don't really care. I must do this to show, that if nothing else, at least I own up to my mistakes.
Ladies and Gentleman, I have been humbled:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mf198
I, in my shame, would like to draw your attention to David Salmon's "Mono-green" Aggro deck.
No...Way...Shield of the Oversoul ...in a Top 8 deck no less.
I stand by what I said before, however. With Condemn, Oblivion Ring, Venser, and all the Instant-speed removal that could blast the target before Shield resolved in the format right now, I have no idea how this card even remotely survived. Now to see if it appears in any of the PT Hollywood decks...
This is neither here nor there, but I think the Drove will push out Archers after SHA drops, especially in three-color builds as the green's not as cost-intensive. Shroud makes all the difference, especially "Troll Shroud" ,and it benefits from Wolves/Elephants (Garruk Tokens) Plus we wont really have to worry about flying much more with Raking Canopy
On a sidenote, does anybody here think the hexhunter will see play? It's admittedly waaay before my time, but my understanding is that Elvish Lyrist saw quite a bit of play back in Urza's.
I think I have a problem...
Aaaaaaaaanyhoooo, moving on, what about Safehold Elite? I could be wrong, but from where I'm sitting it seems pretty damned good. First of all, it's a bear, and aggro really cant ask for much more than a solid 2/2 for 2. Secondly, it doesn't die. Well, once anyway, allowing us to maintain a defense post-***, or, preventing an opponent from blasting a vital blocker, something that's happened to me more than once. Plus it makes us easier to maindeck damnations/wraths ourselves.
Now, it could be argued that an opponent could very easily bring about its demise with Shadowmoor's -1/-1 theme, but I've yet to see an efficiently costed card that can dump a slew of counters on one thing at once. What's he gonna do? Scar it twice? Let him! Two-fer! In fact, I seriously doubt they'd waste a single scar just to deny us a pseudo-squire, when they'd be better served holding it for one of our utility 1/1s. No?