JTMS would be absolutely bananas in Modern. Have you guys played against decks that pack Jace in Legacy currently? In a format with Goblin Piledriver, Bloodbraid Elf, Tendrils of Agony, Red Elemental Blast and a ton other examples Jace is an absolute. house.
Jace can not and never should be unbanned in Modern. Not unless you guys want a format of nothing but UWR Midrange, UWR Control and JaceShift decks. Not to mention how much you would have to alter ALL of your lists to suddenly have to deal with it.
Like this is laughable. Stahp.
jtms gets boarded out, a lot. It's bad vs combo. 40%-50% of the meta is combo.
well they designed deathrite and abrupt decay with older formats in mind.
This depresses me greatly. The biggest reason being the quote from a a dev about DRS. "We wanted it to have 2 toughness so it could block and kill lacky." This makes me grind my teeth every time I think about it. That 1 point of toughness takes the card from aggravating to hard to answer. Darkblast could have worked perfectly, or electrolyze could kill it + bob or zealous persecution, but it HAS to block lacky...
D-Sphere and O-Ring I expected, and I'm sure there are some decks out there that run these in the main. But I said Turn 2 answers, which means:
- You can't target Emrakul with Far, and even if you can cast Away, there was a Turn 1 mana dork that allowed the Cascade spell to be cast which will be sac'd instead.
- Liliana isn't a valid Hypergenesis option. Even if she is somehow on the field, she suffers the same problem as Away.
- Violent Outburst at the end of your turn will be the option used to avoid mirror issues.
- What lists run maindeck Stingscourger?
Ethersworn Cannonist might do it, if you get it out first, and even Duress can force a discard. Spell Pierce is viable.
- You're going to Silence someone on their second turn? How long will you keep that up? Also, I tend to see Silence on more Legacy lists than I do in Modern. There was even quite a bit of complaining on these forums about what a "waste" of a Rare White slot it was for Silence to be reprinted in M14.
- What competitive Modern deck runs Meddling Mage?
- Thorn of Amethyst? You could have at least said Thalia, which is a card that sees more play.
I'm not going to bother talking about Fae; that's its own can of worms.
Turn 1 mana dork (BoP, Heirarch, various mana Elves, etc).
So, from the legitimate answers I'm seeing, the decks so far would be WU Control vs RG Hypergenesis. That's some healthy format diversity that hinges on Turn 2 plays. Anyone else?
I'm not going to debate something that's demonstrably false.
First of all the bolded sentence just makes me laugh and proves you have 0 credibility as to what you're talking about. There are 2 cards which allow turn 2 hypergenesis the above are not them.
As for silence you cast it after they outburst in response to the trigger.
Meddling mage auto wins the matchup so I'd estimate if the format had more 1 card combo it would be played. As for thalia I had covered my white cards so I just wanted a card every deck could play to demonstrate everything can hose that deck.
Either you have no idea what these cards do, or you're willfully ignoring the proper use of them.
But every card on the banlist is "physically capable" of coming off, Skullclamp and Mental Misstep included. It's your "personal opinion" in the sense that you're judging the Modern format as essentially a Legacy-lite. The Modern banlist is what defines the format, in the same sense that the Legacy banlist defines the format as one separate from Vintage. Does that make every card on the Legacy banlist "physically capable" of coming off?
Skullclamp may have been one of the few cards to have been banned in Standard, but so were the artifact lands, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, and Stoneforge Mystic. It is your personal opinion that Skullclamp is better than these others (and I for one would agree with you), but unless you've playtested a format with this specific combination of the banlist, you can't say for a certainty that the format "wouldn't be a problem". That is a bold and overreaching statement to make.
People need to learn that it's the banlist that defines the Modern format, as much as the 8th-edition cutoff mark.
Physically capable of pulling the cards off the list prohibits cards which reduce the cards you can play in a deck. MM reduces the number of cards in decks to 56. Clamp does the same. Together they reduce deck building to 52 cards.
Having played through each of these cards existences gives me play testing experience. Combo enablers get better in larger formats. EVERYTHING ELSE get's worse. This isn't a personal opinion this is just a game design fact. The larger a card pool the more likely some combo breaks the game. Cards which aren't combo have to be either comically designed to the point if a player presented it as a card they'd be laughed at (MM) or it was a complete mistake (Clamp).
The combo spells in this game are problematic but answers are good enough to fight against them. Answers have evolved. For a deck to win through directed hate (Rule of law, stony silence) it has to be completely broken or over the top UNLESS it attacks in a strange way which blanks a huge amount of decks (Vintage manaless dredge).
I'm not talking about this from a specific pool point of view. I'm talking about it from a game design point of view.
In a large card pool the following things happen.
1) Combos pop up.
2) Existing combos either become worthless or incredibly powerful.
3) Engine combo can become problematic.
4) Linear decks become substantively worse over time.
5) Decks which are "Good stuff" Become homogenized to the point of 2/3rds of a deck being identical.
6) Value cards devalue over time.
Examples of the above
1) I shouldn't need any but grove/punishing is an example, as is DDepths and hex/vesuva.
2) Dragon storm became worthless while twin gained redundancy and became top tier.
3) Storm. Storm. Storm. This has had 5 cards banned because of their refusal to allow the answers to this deck.
4) Affinity. The deck has waned more and more over the years as better creatures get printed and a 4/4 for 0 and a 2 mana gavony township just doesn't look good enough any more.
5) Recent worlds contained essentially 2 non combo decks with the other decks being combo. These were BG decks and UWR decks. Each BG or UWR deck differed less than 15 cards from another deck of the same colors.
6) See goyf. It used to be the undisputed beater. It's still good but there used to be mono blue decks which splashed green singularly for goyf. That doesn't happen any more. It is no longer good enough for UWR to be UWR/g thanks to some minor GY hate.
These are just general observations about any game. Not specific to magic. Pick any format in any game. As a card pool grows larger these are largely true unless the game designers actively attempt to subvert them.
Detention Sphere, Oblivion Ring, Far//away, Liliana of the Veil, your own Emrakul (if your on tron or the mirror), Stingscourger.
You're kidding right?
The above is an example of how easy it is to answer "Dump your hand." Board in your own fatties or free hand answers is one choice but if you dislike the (Completely reasonable option) then
am I done? I think I'm done. Answering this is trivial.
This isn't even addressing fae which would run over that deck with such ferocity that it's almost like watching a British chase seen with campy music playing.
I try not to post on here often but what the heck.
Let me start by saying I've played with every single card on the banned list at some point or another.
I've played plenty of vintage, legacy, and extended.
In terms of raw power exactly 2 cards are justified on being on the banned list.
Skull clamp - This card is so powerful that it at one point made a vintage deck. It's banned in legacy. It's one of few cards in all of history to force bannings in standard and is just generally under costed.
Mental mistep - This is either the most powerful counter in the game or the second most powerful after mana drain. Look at vintage control decks they often play more MM than mana drain. The card is obnoxious and idiotic.
Every other card is physically capable of coming off.
The remainder of the cards on the banned list are for format shaping. There is no need to ban the other cards unless you want to. MM and clamp MUST be banned or the format becomes a 52 card format.
This isn't a personal opinion it's fact. While every other card would shape the format if you allowed them they wouldn't be a problem. BBE vs jace. Affinity vs storm. Hypergenesis vs fae. The power level would be higher but the format would be serviceable.
They are going for a lower power format so absolutely everything popular is ban worthy.
Depends on what's in his deck. FoW is a great card but it doesn't go in every blue deck. Maybe Cryptic is the right choice for his deck because all the 1 through 3 drops are better than Remand because of how the deck plays.
I'm talking in a vacuum, if I have to choose between the two cards, and I know I'm in a turn 4 format, I'm choosing the 2 drop over the 4 drop unless it's a 4 drop like Supreme Verdict that at least clears the board when cast and can't be countered.
I don't know Brandon's deck so I can't answer the question intelligently.
How can remand sustain that price? O.o the deck isn't that popular and it was a highly played/picked up UC at the time.
Update on the MTGO numbers after a week of data collection:
Melira Pod remains both the most prevalent deck and the highest performing deck in MTGO Daily Events. Of the 1064 decks in the population, 11% of them (113) are Melira Pod. This is followed by UWR Control (9%), Affinity (5%), RUG Scapeshift (5%), and then a whole mess of decks with 4% metagame shares (including Twin, Jund, Burn, and RG Tron).
I have also been tracking raw win percentages over the dataset, defined as total number of game wins divided by total number of games played. So if a deck went 2-0, 2-0, and 1-2, its win percentage in that event was 71% (5 wins divided by 7 total games). Melira Pod's win percentage sits at 58%, the second highest in the dataset. The highest win rate belongs to RBG Jund, with a 60% win rate. Twin is the third most-winning deck, with UR Twin showing a 55% win rate.
Finally, I have been tracking the ratio of a deck's overall metagame percentage (e.g. Melira Pod at 11%, UWR Control at 9%, etc.) to its share of the winner's bracket (i.e. those decks that went 4-0 and 3-1 at Daily Events). Of the 1064 decks in the dataset, there have been 335 decks that went 3-1 or 4-0. Melira Pod is most overperforming in this category. Relative to the overall population, Melira Pod makes up 11% of the metagame. But relative to the 3-1/4-0 decks, Melira Pod makes up 15% of decks that got to the winner's bracket. This difference in proportions is by far the biggest difference in the entire dataset and has strong statistical significance (it is way above the upper-end of the 95% confidence interval, constructed using bootstrapping). The only decks that come close to Melira Pod are RBG Jund and UR Twin, both with a 4% metagame share and 6% 3-1/4-0 share.
As usual, I offer a disclaimer for those who want to interpret this data. There are lots of factors that might explain these numbers. For example, perhaps the best players on MTGO are those that gravitate towards the fun and skill-intensive Melira Pod deck, and that is why the deck is making up such a high percentage of the 3-1/4-0 decks. Another option might be that the deck is just overpowered. And there are, of course, dozens of other explanations. But data like this is, likely, what Wizards will use to assess the ban-worthiness of cards in Modern, so it should definitely inform our ban discussion.
This reminds me of the skill focused decks in every format. Good players gravitate to more choices. As such decks with reasonable choices win more. I agree pod is strong but if their win % is 58 and this is MTGO not paper magic it includes a number of bad and/or cheap players. Decks which are more winning on MTGO in a 4 round format are substantially different than decks which win in a 16+ round format or even a 9 round format. Just food for thought. I'm not trying to diminish the numbers, I like math. The BIGGEST problem is that it's not the same on paper. While MTGO is important in that it gives us rough numbers those numbers don't bear out in more serious events.
Over the week, I found time to go through all of the current Modern-playable cards. I actually came up with a huge list of cool cards that I never knew existed. I'm sure many of the cards I wrote down were Standard all stars/playables but maybe they are not quite good for Modern. Still, I put them all in a Word document for future reference.
I am curious why these cards never found a home though. They seem quite powerful to me, or just useful.
1. Night's Whisper: Is the sorcery speed the reason it does not see any play? Seems very splashable to me.
2. Cosi's Trickster: Seems like a reasonable one-drop for Merfolk decks, or is the Judge's Familiar-like merfolk better?
3. Phyrexian Arena: If Bob is good, why not this? Too slow now? Was thinking of playing BUx control of some kind. Card advantage is the real problem with control decks. They are good controlling tempo, and they can get value in some cases, but raw card advantage/selection is their weak spot. Seems like this card will solve that.
4. Victim of Night: Removal is bad in Standard potentially, but seems great in Modern. I guess Terminate is also good, and probably easier to cast, but no-restriction removal at instant speed is pretty hard to come by, even for modern. Or are we afraid of the random Olivia here?
5. Isochron Scepter: Seems like a fun card to me, and can be very powerful. Might be weak to pod since they can just tutor for the answer, but I am surprised nobody plays this. Just too slow? The potential for 2-for-1 is too much to risk? Seems really good with Lightning Bolt, or Terminate, or Peer Through Depths, or Abrupt Decay, or many other things.
6. Mask of Memory: This card seems underrated to me. How was it in Mirrodin block? Did Skullclamp overshadow it? It's cheaper than a sword, but doesn't give combat bonuses. Does that make it bad?
7. Steelshaper's Gift: Seems like a pretty sweet tutor for equipment. If you had 1 of each sword in your deck, you can just get the one you need. Seems like it would fit into a bunch of decks. Bad?
8. Hold the Line: I know this seems narrow, but when I saw it, I laughed. I couldn't stop thinking of Mass Effect 1's Hold The Line speech.
9. Ideas Unbound: Seems like a good card in Merfolk decks that can easily dump their hand. Are there really no cards to cut to add 2-3 of these?
10. Vinelasher Kudzu: Seems like it would have a good interaction with Knight of the Reliquary and just fetch lands in general. Bad?
12. Augury Adept: Did this card see any serious play? I know hitting an opponent via combat is not the easiest thing in the world to do, so I am dismissing it. However, drawing a card AND gaining life seems pretty awesome to ignore. Neat little card.
13. Reflecting Pool: Why is nobody playing these? I didn't even know this was legal in modern. I used to play them back in Tempest block. I think it's worth it to play at least one, if not two. Better than taking 2 damage.
14. Sygg, River Cutthroat: I dislike conditional cards, but on the bright side, he's not that horrible if you didn't deal 3 damage. It's kind of funny, but if you're playing against Jund, you might just get a bunch of free cards for playing against them, lol. And if they bolt it, well, that's a lord that didn't get eaten by his bolt.
15. Vexing Shusher: Probably not really strong in the current meta, but has to be a player at times, no? Seems pretty crazy.
16. Gilder Bairn: I only noticed this because it had a lot of interactions with Simic/Golgari cards from the RTR block.
17. Wake Thrasher: I know, I know - it's a 3 drop that kind of sucks when he comes into play. But it doesn't seem totally unreasonable to me that he will get to be quite larger than a 3/3 every turn, just by playing real magic.
18. Talara's Battalion: I like this card, although maybe it wouldn't be a good. Seems to be pretty silly with Burning-Tree Emissary. You can also cheat it into play with Aether Vial. Lots of explosive ways to use it.
19. Stigma Lasher: I didn't know this card existed. I know Soul Sisters isn't too popular, but my guess is that they wouldn't like this card at all, lol (if he connects, which is the real gimmick, sigh).
20. Qasali Ambusher: Not crazy overpowered, but seems rather nice if you're playing with Temple Garden. I'm guessing this would punish a lot of players attacking with their bobs, mana dorks, deathrite shamans, etc. Of course, it would only work for the first game. There's no way they are going to play around this card. Then sideboard it out for the second game, and they won't attack you in game 2
21. Vampire Hexmage: I was not aware of a creature that could sacrifice itself to kill a planeswalker. Pretty neat. Easy to play around though
22. Kargan Dragonlord: 3 mana for a 4/4 flyer that's out of bolt range on turn 3 doesn't seem bad to me. It's no Tarmogoyf, but what is?
23. Shrine of Piercing Vision: With all of the horrible cantrips and card filters, wouldn't this be of some use to control players?
1: Draw 2's can't be sorcery speed unless they cost 1. Creatures are too good.
2: Blue is terrible. Blue's creatures are worse.
3: Bob is better, you'd never want 8 of the effect.
4: Terminate exists as does abrupt decay.
5: This is instant card disadvantage and just bad. People never understood that because it's a casual card.
6: It's a slow draw 1. For another mana you get a sword of fire and ice which is boarder line playable.
7: There's only one equipment worth searching for and this IS occasionally seen in that deck. Plating.
8: Terrible.
9: It used to be in combo but combo is now bad. Double blue is killer.
10: Goyf is better.
11: Terrible.
12: 3 mana has to hit to have an effect. If it was just inverse bob for 1 more it might be good.
13: This card doesn't play 1 drops. Unlike other formats this is a format which starts on turn 1.
14: Terrible. You can only draw 6 cards before killing them. This guy is better as a 3 power beater.
15: Blue is terrible.
16: Terrible, slow, super bad.
17: Used to be good when blue and merfolk was good.
18: Conditional worse than tarmogoyfs are bad mkay.
19: Terrible. It's too slow.
20: Most decks don't win by attacking for a finite amount.
21: Walkers are terrible besides liliana and by the time it resolves you're behind a card.
22: Mana investments are bad.
23: Abysmal
24: This is played, a lot.
After watching pod play I'm convinced it needs to be banned. Once you establish the combo you've accomplished a secondary goal. You mind control them into concession.
Why would anyone share the list before the could take advantage of it?
Because if you're in this thread you're not a player who could take advantage from it at any serious event. Although some people are disillusion.
If wizards bans pod the format is just going to get worse. Winning 2 events with a whopping 4 of in the top 16 isn't a disproportionate share of the metagame. No GP top 8 has been more diverse for modern than the last two. Bannings are bad mkay.
Anyone who doesn't think this is exciting as hell needs to have their pulse checked. Matches like this prove how great this format can be. I'd play either one of these decks and have a blast with them.
Anyway, it's all down to 1 game. Wow.
The second game was terribly boring. The first was interesting. I honestly hope you aren't saying that watching LD is entertaining.
If the attendance would have been that high for Homelands, we would have gotten more sets like homelands. But what did Homelands do? It drove players away from the game and Wotc learn their lesson.
That's not the point. The point is no matter what format it is if people can afford to play they will unless something is utterly horrible (Ala skull clamp). That's just the way players are.
Just in these threads you see that bannings are liked by some and disliked by others. Its about personal outlook on the format. What you call absurd, others are enjoying. Its all about personal preference.
Right but 15% of people liking bannings doesn't matter. If as little as 10% of people dislike the ban and the rest are indifferent than say 10% of that 10% leave. A measly 1% gone. That's fine. The first time or two. After the 5th-10th like we've got now the format will shrink.
All this complaining and Wotc still had almost 1000 people show up on a holiday weekend for a format supposedly no one likes. Me thinks some protest too much..
If the format was homelands limited you'd still have 2,000 people show up. The game is that popular and people just don't care most of the time.
There has been a steady down trend in modern event attendance since the formats inception. It's mathematically provable and has been shown in other threads. The downward trend usually levels off right before a ban but then slowly decreases again.
Banning cards is not popular unless the card is utterly broken. The last ban that increased attendance was skull clamp and the rest of the affinity deck. For good reason. The card was stupid. Are there cards like that in modern, ABSOLUTELY. Ignoring the clear top 2 stupid cards (Clamp/Mental misstep) you've got things like hypergenesis on the banned list which few people try to argue for pulling off. That's fine. But when you have multiple cantrips on your banned list not named time walk the format is doing something wrong. If consistency in some combo deck is a problem the problem is that the combo is too good not that you can do it too often. Banning grapeshot (Not something I'd do) Would give you back no less than 7 cards. That's absurd.
jtms gets boarded out, a lot. It's bad vs combo. 40%-50% of the meta is combo.
This depresses me greatly. The biggest reason being the quote from a a dev about DRS. "We wanted it to have 2 toughness so it could block and kill lacky." This makes me grind my teeth every time I think about it. That 1 point of toughness takes the card from aggravating to hard to answer. Darkblast could have worked perfectly, or electrolyze could kill it + bob or zealous persecution, but it HAS to block lacky...
I'm not going to debate something that's demonstrably false.
First of all the bolded sentence just makes me laugh and proves you have 0 credibility as to what you're talking about. There are 2 cards which allow turn 2 hypergenesis the above are not them.
As for silence you cast it after they outburst in response to the trigger.
Meddling mage auto wins the matchup so I'd estimate if the format had more 1 card combo it would be played. As for thalia I had covered my white cards so I just wanted a card every deck could play to demonstrate everything can hose that deck.
Either you have no idea what these cards do, or you're willfully ignoring the proper use of them.
Except for the part where your own emerakul attacks and eats their board...
Physically capable of pulling the cards off the list prohibits cards which reduce the cards you can play in a deck. MM reduces the number of cards in decks to 56. Clamp does the same. Together they reduce deck building to 52 cards.
Having played through each of these cards existences gives me play testing experience. Combo enablers get better in larger formats. EVERYTHING ELSE get's worse. This isn't a personal opinion this is just a game design fact. The larger a card pool the more likely some combo breaks the game. Cards which aren't combo have to be either comically designed to the point if a player presented it as a card they'd be laughed at (MM) or it was a complete mistake (Clamp).
The combo spells in this game are problematic but answers are good enough to fight against them. Answers have evolved. For a deck to win through directed hate (Rule of law, stony silence) it has to be completely broken or over the top UNLESS it attacks in a strange way which blanks a huge amount of decks (Vintage manaless dredge).
I'm not talking about this from a specific pool point of view. I'm talking about it from a game design point of view.
In a large card pool the following things happen.
1) Combos pop up.
2) Existing combos either become worthless or incredibly powerful.
3) Engine combo can become problematic.
4) Linear decks become substantively worse over time.
5) Decks which are "Good stuff" Become homogenized to the point of 2/3rds of a deck being identical.
6) Value cards devalue over time.
Examples of the above
1) I shouldn't need any but grove/punishing is an example, as is DDepths and hex/vesuva.
2) Dragon storm became worthless while twin gained redundancy and became top tier.
3) Storm. Storm. Storm. This has had 5 cards banned because of their refusal to allow the answers to this deck.
4) Affinity. The deck has waned more and more over the years as better creatures get printed and a 4/4 for 0 and a 2 mana gavony township just doesn't look good enough any more.
5) Recent worlds contained essentially 2 non combo decks with the other decks being combo. These were BG decks and UWR decks. Each BG or UWR deck differed less than 15 cards from another deck of the same colors.
6) See goyf. It used to be the undisputed beater. It's still good but there used to be mono blue decks which splashed green singularly for goyf. That doesn't happen any more. It is no longer good enough for UWR to be UWR/g thanks to some minor GY hate.
These are just general observations about any game. Not specific to magic. Pick any format in any game. As a card pool grows larger these are largely true unless the game designers actively attempt to subvert them.
You're kidding right?
The above is an example of how easy it is to answer "Dump your hand." Board in your own fatties or free hand answers is one choice but if you dislike the (Completely reasonable option) then
Silence, meddling mage, cannonist, thoughtseize, inquisition, spell pierce, thorn of amethyst
am I done? I think I'm done. Answering this is trivial.
This isn't even addressing fae which would run over that deck with such ferocity that it's almost like watching a British chase seen with campy music playing.
Let me start by saying I've played with every single card on the banned list at some point or another.
I've played plenty of vintage, legacy, and extended.
In terms of raw power exactly 2 cards are justified on being on the banned list.
Skull clamp - This card is so powerful that it at one point made a vintage deck. It's banned in legacy. It's one of few cards in all of history to force bannings in standard and is just generally under costed.
Mental mistep - This is either the most powerful counter in the game or the second most powerful after mana drain. Look at vintage control decks they often play more MM than mana drain. The card is obnoxious and idiotic.
Every other card is physically capable of coming off.
The remainder of the cards on the banned list are for format shaping. There is no need to ban the other cards unless you want to. MM and clamp MUST be banned or the format becomes a 52 card format.
This isn't a personal opinion it's fact. While every other card would shape the format if you allowed them they wouldn't be a problem. BBE vs jace. Affinity vs storm. Hypergenesis vs fae. The power level would be higher but the format would be serviceable.
They are going for a lower power format so absolutely everything popular is ban worthy.
How can remand sustain that price? O.o the deck isn't that popular and it was a highly played/picked up UC at the time.
This reminds me of the skill focused decks in every format. Good players gravitate to more choices. As such decks with reasonable choices win more. I agree pod is strong but if their win % is 58 and this is MTGO not paper magic it includes a number of bad and/or cheap players. Decks which are more winning on MTGO in a 4 round format are substantially different than decks which win in a 16+ round format or even a 9 round format. Just food for thought. I'm not trying to diminish the numbers, I like math. The BIGGEST problem is that it's not the same on paper. While MTGO is important in that it gives us rough numbers those numbers don't bear out in more serious events.
1: Draw 2's can't be sorcery speed unless they cost 1. Creatures are too good.
2: Blue is terrible. Blue's creatures are worse.
3: Bob is better, you'd never want 8 of the effect.
4: Terminate exists as does abrupt decay.
5: This is instant card disadvantage and just bad. People never understood that because it's a casual card.
6: It's a slow draw 1. For another mana you get a sword of fire and ice which is boarder line playable.
7: There's only one equipment worth searching for and this IS occasionally seen in that deck. Plating.
8: Terrible.
9: It used to be in combo but combo is now bad. Double blue is killer.
10: Goyf is better.
11: Terrible.
12: 3 mana has to hit to have an effect. If it was just inverse bob for 1 more it might be good.
13: This card doesn't play 1 drops. Unlike other formats this is a format which starts on turn 1.
14: Terrible. You can only draw 6 cards before killing them. This guy is better as a 3 power beater.
15: Blue is terrible.
16: Terrible, slow, super bad.
17: Used to be good when blue and merfolk was good.
18: Conditional worse than tarmogoyfs are bad mkay.
19: Terrible. It's too slow.
20: Most decks don't win by attacking for a finite amount.
21: Walkers are terrible besides liliana and by the time it resolves you're behind a card.
22: Mana investments are bad.
23: Abysmal
24: This is played, a lot.
Oh my an update with no bans. This makes me feel better about this format.
Because if you're in this thread you're not a player who could take advantage from it at any serious event. Although some people are disillusion.
If wizards bans pod the format is just going to get worse. Winning 2 events with a whopping 4 of in the top 16 isn't a disproportionate share of the metagame. No GP top 8 has been more diverse for modern than the last two. Bannings are bad mkay.
This is what we must now refer to it as. Period.
The second game was terribly boring. The first was interesting. I honestly hope you aren't saying that watching LD is entertaining.
That's not the point. The point is no matter what format it is if people can afford to play they will unless something is utterly horrible (Ala skull clamp). That's just the way players are.
Right but 15% of people liking bannings doesn't matter. If as little as 10% of people dislike the ban and the rest are indifferent than say 10% of that 10% leave. A measly 1% gone. That's fine. The first time or two. After the 5th-10th like we've got now the format will shrink.
If the format was homelands limited you'd still have 2,000 people show up. The game is that popular and people just don't care most of the time.
There has been a steady down trend in modern event attendance since the formats inception. It's mathematically provable and has been shown in other threads. The downward trend usually levels off right before a ban but then slowly decreases again.
Banning cards is not popular unless the card is utterly broken. The last ban that increased attendance was skull clamp and the rest of the affinity deck. For good reason. The card was stupid. Are there cards like that in modern, ABSOLUTELY. Ignoring the clear top 2 stupid cards (Clamp/Mental misstep) you've got things like hypergenesis on the banned list which few people try to argue for pulling off. That's fine. But when you have multiple cantrips on your banned list not named time walk the format is doing something wrong. If consistency in some combo deck is a problem the problem is that the combo is too good not that you can do it too often. Banning grapeshot (Not something I'd do) Would give you back no less than 7 cards. That's absurd.