I didn't make up a statistic regarding that poll of "37Y, 77N, 8U" I posted the results of the statistic from that thread that FunkyDragon mentioned, so yes I can back it up. Also yes I can dismiss it, its one single poll that polled the equivalent of 1% of the commander player base.
My mistake, I though you had said "The community (Overall) has no issue", but I misread the quote.
That is alright, everyone misreads something sometimes, even myself.
No poll is going to be definitive. Claiming bias ("its blatant statistical bias from a subgroup that doesn't want to see planeswalkers as commanders") does not mean the majority of players don't agree. I see where you are coming from, but even a poll of 10,000 is going to be a small subset of any commander group. And the ones listening to Podcasts or engaging on Social Media are going to be a biased group anyway.
I agree it would still be small and it can't be definitive, but one of 10,000 would appear much more credible than a poll of 122.
Add on top of that this isnt even close to a democracy, and what is a 'better poll' going to accomplish?
A better view of people's thoughts on the matter.
If the results are still close to the original result, then it simply proves on a larger scale that people didn't want planeswalkers as commanders. If the results are more like a coin toss if its close to 50/50, then it shows it may not be as clear cut and dry on what the community wants. If the results are vastly more in favor of planeswalkers as commanders, then it shows what people actually wanted than what was originally perceived.
Imagine if you will there were two men in the middle of two separate open plains that had obstructions. The first man stands on a rock that is 5 feet tall, the second man standing on a 100 foot tall rock. Which would have a better view of his surroundings?
I can't buy this. I looked at the same poll as well. 37Y, 77N, 8U. That (122 votes) is far too minuscule of a number when gathering statistics. The only that is an accurate poll that represents the "overall community" is if that is all the players in the world for commander, which makes me wonder how a game of commander even fires regularly with such a tiny player base. Also why would Wizards bother with catering so much to only 122 players? As this doesn't reflect a profitable format that became a mainstay.
You cant claim a statistic you cant back up, then dismiss the only available statistic. Check the main EDH forums, its mostly against as well.
I didn't make up a statistic regarding that poll of "37Y, 77N, 8U" I posted the results of the statistic from that thread that FunkyDragon mentioned, so yes I can back it up. Also yes I can dismiss it, its one single poll that polled the equivalent of 1% of the commander player base.
But honestly, with the amount of people who look at this sites EDH Subforums and that 4,748 people looked at the thread and didn't feel strongly enough about the results as to add more votes, it's a pretty good assumption that most people either agree with the current results on the poll or don't care about it. And if most people really neither want them nor care one way or the other then what's the point of changing the rules?
Lets say the 4,784 were from one user each and not the same users viewing it multiple times, yes? 122 votes equates to 2.57% of the 4,784 who bothered to vote. If a 1000 users voted instead of 122, at least you would have 21.06% of the votes from each of the 4,784.
So when Sam_Eldrestein noted that the 4:100 for a theoretical poll would be considered anecdotal, shes being correct in the matter. When polls are done regarding laws or medicine for instance, a number like 122:4784 is the equivalent of saying "I knew a guy of my friend who said..."
The fact of the matter in saying that "most don't care" is referring to the silent majority. The vocal minority, which is what is happening in that poll, is the ones who are like "we don't want planeswalkers as commanders". This vocal minority is composed of 77 users. To put this in perspective, make up 1.71% of the community that is of the theoretical 4,784. Which is the equivalent of the 1% vocal minority making decisions for the 99% silent majority while claiming they are the "overall community".
The poll itself does in fact lack proper visibility as Sam_Eldristein put it. Its on a non-official forum, in a subthread about a single format, in a subsection regarding rules for that one format. This entire website is composed of 365,674 users as of the time of writing this. Meaning that only 1.31% of the 365,674 users saw this thread. Where the 77 who were against this are the equivalent of 0.02% of the users here.
Will the RC allow PW to be generals? The community (Overall) has no issue. But right now you still have to ask each person after the other. If one person says no, well then you are stuck.
There have already been polls that prove this wrong. The overall community does have an issue with planeswalkers as commander. I just checked the poll, and it stands at 63.6% against, 5.8% neutral, and only 30.6% in favor of planeswalkers as commanders. That's less than a third for. If Wizards wants them in Brawl, fine. But in Commander, it would cause problems, and they'd probably have to ban a few.
I can't buy this. I looked at the same poll as well. 37Y, 77N, 8U. That (122 votes) is far too minuscule of a number when gathering statistics. The only that is an accurate poll that represents the "overall community" is if that is all the players in the world for commander, which makes me wonder how a game of commander even fires regularly with such a tiny player base. Also why would Wizards bother with catering so much to only 122 players? As this doesn't reflect a profitable format that became a mainstay.
Any poll is merely representation and has a margin of error because you can't poll every single player. However, can you show any poll that would indicate this sample does not represent the overall community? And just how big a margin of error do you objectively think this poll has? Without saying "it disagrees with me, so it's wrong," can you show that there would be a complete reversal of results by sampling a larger group?
That poll is not sufficient, polls need to be done frequently on the same subject matter to actually understand what people think. Only doing one poll is frankly not enough data in the real world. All this poll shows is the people who frequent MTGS Commander (Rules Discussion) would have seen this poll. Its not because "it doesn't agree with me, so its wrong" its blatant statistical bias from a subgroup that doesn't want to see planeswalkers as commanders. Like if WOTC did this same poll, you think the results would be close to the same when on a larger scale?
I personally only am against planeswalkers as commanders if Doubling Season is allowed to remain unbanned. There are healthier and cheaper alternatives than DS for the format like Primal Vigor, Parallel Lives, or Hardened Scales based on the deck.
Will the RC allow PW to be generals? The community (Overall) has no issue. But right now you still have to ask each person after the other. If one person says no, well then you are stuck.
There have already been polls that prove this wrong. The overall community does have an issue with planeswalkers as commander. I just checked the poll, and it stands at 63.6% against, 5.8% neutral, and only 30.6% in favor of planeswalkers as commanders. That's less than a third for. If Wizards wants them in Brawl, fine. But in Commander, it would cause problems, and they'd probably have to ban a few.
I can't buy this. I looked at the same poll as well. 37Y, 77N, 8U. That (122 votes) is far too minuscule of a number when gathering statistics. The only that is an accurate poll that represents the "overall community" is if that is all the players in the world for commander, which makes me wonder how a game of commander even fires regularly with such a tiny player base. Also why would Wizards bother with catering so much to only 122 players? As this doesn't reflect a profitable format that became a mainstay.
Eternity7BGW
Legendary Creature - Incarnation (MR)
When you cast Eternity, search your library for a instant card, add it to your hand, then shuffle your library afterwards. Then do the same for a enchantment card and then a creature card.
10/10
@Etherium Sage Considering the +2 is basically time magic as the attacking creature is flung into the future, it still fits Teferi. The only change that can be made to make it even more appropriate is having the attacking creature phase out.
But you realize that any of the abundance of creature removals spells in standard makes this useless, right? Fatal Push, Lightning Strike, Harnessed Lightning, Sweltering Suns, etc. With ascend in the format it's very easy to see what you're trying to do and none of the answers to a creature centric ascend strategy are hard to find because they're being run in nearly every standard deck anyway.
Dies to Doom Blade argument? Really? What next? Every deck is packing Cancel or Negate? I thought this was MTG where I throw questions at you and you either come up with better questions or you have answers for my questions. Just because Wrath of God existed in standard at one point didn't mean creature-based decks still didn't try to work. Likewise if your opponent has UU open, do you never play a spell again?
Where if the local meta swings too far in one direction such as packing lots of creature hate, you can always swap to a creature-lite strategy such as treasures or lands and you just created new questions that the meta may not be prepared to handled.
Probably going to get shot down for this given the previous posts, but for me I don't want them to go back to any plane because they have a story to tell.
I mean I hate the story aspect because of the previous relentless focus on Planeswalkers and dire screw ups of story based cards going over the top, and I don't really care about the characters any more than I would about the 5 of spades or a chess piece, and I actively avoid the story, so much so I could not tell you one tenth of the things that previous posters know. If they go back to a plane I want it to be because they have some ideas for mechanics and game play that would suit a plane- so some cool enchantment ideas or Enchantment-based mechanics that could fit with Theros, or some desire to re-work Snow permanents that makes them go to whatever the continent of Dominaria was that produced Ice age/Cold Snap. Not "let us resolve Koth's story". If they can tell a story for those that care, then great, but going back to a plane to complete a story sounds awfully close to some of the story-tail-wagging-the-game-dog which has been responsible in part for some pretty poor decisions over the past few years.
olk
Want to know something fascinating? Even without novels, comics, trailers, story piece articles, etc, you are still learning the story of a given plane. Through its artwork, the names of cards, the flavor text and/or even the mechanics help tell a story.
In its current form Alia, the Peaceful One might read better as:
Alia, the Peaceful One1GWU
Legendary Creature - Elder Plant {M}
Creatures have defender, base power and toughness 0/1, and "At the beginning of your end step, draw a card."
0/1
I can't argue with your design philosophy for Alia but I'm worried about what the 99 might look like with it as your Commander. What do you do while all creatures are these passive plants? How are you pushing toward your victory? Alia feels like an enchantment but with an ability that does feel like justification for the Elder type. I can see and feel the flavor you intened to convey. There's no reason some plane doesn't have something like an elder plant and, if it did, Alia is likely a good representation of that (for a peaceful plant anyway. A BG elder plant would be a different story!)
The effects will produce wildly different situations from game to game depending on the boards of each player. Aggro will try to strangle Alia on sight but the next game Aggro might want to take the chance to replenish their hand and then kill Alia. it's hard to predict every weird situation Alia would produce.
Alia is a powerful effect to have ready in the Command Zone.
Modified the wording as you suggested.
It also creates some situations that can make boardwipes into unfavorable states even when all Alia might have equippied is Lightning Greaves. As it can also wipe out their own creatures.
There is also some fun to be had such as animating everyones lands with Living Plane. Players now draw a card for each creature they control and each land they control, so if a Goblin player has 5 goblins and 5 lands they now draw 10 cards during their end step. If a "go wide" strategy runs into this, they may want to be hesitant about how many creatures they have out as each body makes them draw harder. While "go tall" strategies won't suffer as much from the backbreaking card draw.
Yet on the flip side, I see this commander also being weak versus strategies that don't necessarily go for the throat via combat damage. Startegies that keep a low creature count on the board and try to win through alternate methods. But yeah, the end game I see with this is winning the game through over-draw/kindness. Group Hug that wins by exhausting everyone else of their libraries. I can also imagine that Wheel of Sun and Moon would be staple in the deck in order to keep the library healthy. Thinking of which, a Reliquary Tower might be a bad idea for some to have in this situation as it would prevent them from discarding library reseters like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
If kept in check I would see Alia being manageable, but if allowed to run rampant I can see Alia being a show stealer. As I've always noticed people would let the group hug decks just run rampant and even protect them because of the benefits provided. As politically such decks are beneficial and allow people time to build up their board state and plans. But if cranked into over drive when the group hugger wills it, it becomes the biggest threat at the table, group smothering if you will.
@Ruggley I honestly think that your interpretation is a more balanced version of Protean Hulk for many reasons. Fairer P/T, can only get two creatures unless token shenanigans are also in play, can only fetch 3cmc or less creatures. Yet it definitely has a Johnny vibe to it still.
Another card out of me:
Alia, the Peaceful One1WUG Legendary Creature - Elder Plant (M)
Creatures have defender, base power and toughness 0/1, and "At the beginning of your end step, draw a card." 0/1
Logic in Design: Peace's color identity is often in W/G/U color combination.
Peace is always fragile, 1 toughness.
Peace never advocates for violence, 0 power and static ability grants each creature defender.
Peace often can cause many individuals to not be as battle-hardy as past generations and older generations to not always be in shape as they once were, static ability that alters base P/T.
Peace often allows for people to contemplate and learn new things, card draw for each creature with defender.
Peace becomes harder to maintain against those wish to extend conflict, 4cmc.
Peace has often had plants symbolize peace, plant subtype.
Elders on various planes are individuals who wield much power in some manner, typically dragons and now dinosaurs, but what about other sorts of elders like plants?
@Ruggley Changed Matata so it brings the curse to the hand rather than to the field. Didn't decide a gender for them, but girl works. Also the art is very nice.
Matata, Loa of Curses2BB Legendary Creature - Elf Spirit (MR)
As long as Matata is your commander, you may have any Curse cards in your deck.
At the beginning of your end step, you may pay 3 life. If you do, return target Curse card in your graveyard to your hand. 4B, Discard a Curse card: Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn. 3/3
I wanted Matata to interact with all curses but wanted his color identity to be for the most part mono-black so as to avoid one of the biggest traps known where the more colors you add to a commander the more you are encouraged into a multicolor goodstuff deck. As a five-color commander that interacted with curses would also need to build with basic enchantments like Enchantress's Presence, Copy Enchantment, Sterling Grove, Enchanted Evening or Opalescence .
While recovering enchantments in general is not black's wheelhouse, interacting with a very small subset of enchantments could be within that wheelhouse. Just like how every color can interact with equipment but its white specifically that focuses in a positive manner with equipment like Sram, Senior Edificer, Steelshaper's Gift or Sigarda's Aid as quick examples
Energy: readily available turn 1 and on, often for zero mana. Abusers come early and often to abuse it.
Delirium: readily available turn 2, often for one or two mana. Abusers come down early, and often.
Ascend: Not happening turn one or two in any normal magic game. Even turns 3-5 are a stretch. After that, anything should be game.
The comparison really isn't that close.
Turn 1: Forest, Burgeoning, play a forest during opponent's turn
Turn 2: Forest, Kodama's Reach, play forest during opponent's turn
Turn 3: Forest, Explosive Vegetation, play forest during opponent's turn.
Turn 4: Ascend
I'm not even doing a christmas land scenario. I can replace any of those cards, aside from the standard land for each turn, with others and still get it done within four turns of just mono green shenanigans. Pretty sure every color has a means to vomit permanents onto the battlefield.
I mean, you don't even need to go to the pre-modern well like you did here. It's quite doable in Standard.
That's already 8 permanents at the end of T2. Getting to 10 on T3 (when your land drop is #9) is near-trivial after that. Going pre-standard makes it even easier when other 1-mana-2-permanent cards can be considered (Thraben Inspector, Flayer Husk, Sarcomancy...)
Hey, another use for Mishra's Bauble and its older cousin... drop em early in your speedrush to ten permanents, then once you have the emblem, cash em in for card draw.
EXACTLY. Reaching ten permanents is honestly not a challenge.
Oh I got one: Spell Swindle a 5 mana spell. 5 lands + 5 treasures = Ascend Achieved.
There is also probably some other tricks that Kaladesh and/or Amonkhet block have to offer when it comes to reaching 10 permanents with the greatest of ease.
I agree it would still be small and it can't be definitive, but one of 10,000 would appear much more credible than a poll of 122.
A better view of people's thoughts on the matter.
If the results are still close to the original result, then it simply proves on a larger scale that people didn't want planeswalkers as commanders. If the results are more like a coin toss if its close to 50/50, then it shows it may not be as clear cut and dry on what the community wants. If the results are vastly more in favor of planeswalkers as commanders, then it shows what people actually wanted than what was originally perceived.
Imagine if you will there were two men in the middle of two separate open plains that had obstructions. The first man stands on a rock that is 5 feet tall, the second man standing on a 100 foot tall rock. Which would have a better view of his surroundings?
So when Sam_Eldrestein noted that the 4:100 for a theoretical poll would be considered anecdotal, shes being correct in the matter. When polls are done regarding laws or medicine for instance, a number like 122:4784 is the equivalent of saying "I knew a guy of my friend who said..."
The fact of the matter in saying that "most don't care" is referring to the silent majority. The vocal minority, which is what is happening in that poll, is the ones who are like "we don't want planeswalkers as commanders". This vocal minority is composed of 77 users. To put this in perspective, make up 1.71% of the community that is of the theoretical 4,784. Which is the equivalent of the 1% vocal minority making decisions for the 99% silent majority while claiming they are the "overall community".
The poll itself does in fact lack proper visibility as Sam_Eldristein put it. Its on a non-official forum, in a subthread about a single format, in a subsection regarding rules for that one format. This entire website is composed of 365,674 users as of the time of writing this. Meaning that only 1.31% of the 365,674 users saw this thread. Where the 77 who were against this are the equivalent of 0.02% of the users here.
Do you see where I'm coming from?
I can't buy this. I looked at the same poll as well. 37Y, 77N, 8U. That (122 votes) is far too minuscule of a number when gathering statistics. The only that is an accurate poll that represents the "overall community" is if that is all the players in the world for commander, which makes me wonder how a game of commander even fires regularly with such a tiny player base. Also why would Wizards bother with catering so much to only 122 players? As this doesn't reflect a profitable format that became a mainstay.
Legendary Creature - Incarnation (MR)
When you cast Eternity, search your library for a instant card, add it to your hand, then shuffle your library afterwards. Then do the same for a enchantment card and then a creature card.
10/10
Where if the local meta swings too far in one direction such as packing lots of creature hate, you can always swap to a creature-lite strategy such as treasures or lands and you just created new questions that the meta may not be prepared to handled.
It also creates some situations that can make boardwipes into unfavorable states even when all Alia might have equippied is Lightning Greaves. As it can also wipe out their own creatures.
There is also some fun to be had such as animating everyones lands with Living Plane. Players now draw a card for each creature they control and each land they control, so if a Goblin player has 5 goblins and 5 lands they now draw 10 cards during their end step. If a "go wide" strategy runs into this, they may want to be hesitant about how many creatures they have out as each body makes them draw harder. While "go tall" strategies won't suffer as much from the backbreaking card draw.
Yet on the flip side, I see this commander also being weak versus strategies that don't necessarily go for the throat via combat damage. Startegies that keep a low creature count on the board and try to win through alternate methods. But yeah, the end game I see with this is winning the game through over-draw/kindness. Group Hug that wins by exhausting everyone else of their libraries. I can also imagine that Wheel of Sun and Moon would be staple in the deck in order to keep the library healthy. Thinking of which, a Reliquary Tower might be a bad idea for some to have in this situation as it would prevent them from discarding library reseters like Emrakul, the Aeons Torn.
If kept in check I would see Alia being manageable, but if allowed to run rampant I can see Alia being a show stealer. As I've always noticed people would let the group hug decks just run rampant and even protect them because of the benefits provided. As politically such decks are beneficial and allow people time to build up their board state and plans. But if cranked into over drive when the group hugger wills it, it becomes the biggest threat at the table, group smothering if you will.
Another card out of me:
Legendary Creature - Elder Plant (M)
Creatures have defender, base power and toughness 0/1, and "At the beginning of your end step, draw a card."
0/1
Peace is always fragile, 1 toughness.
Peace never advocates for violence, 0 power and static ability grants each creature defender.
Peace often can cause many individuals to not be as battle-hardy as past generations and older generations to not always be in shape as they once were, static ability that alters base P/T.
Peace often allows for people to contemplate and learn new things, card draw for each creature with defender.
Peace becomes harder to maintain against those wish to extend conflict, 4cmc.
Peace has often had plants symbolize peace, plant subtype.
Elders on various planes are individuals who wield much power in some manner, typically dragons and now dinosaurs, but what about other sorts of elders like plants?
Legendary Creature - Elf Spirit (MR)
As long as Matata is your commander, you may have any Curse cards in your deck.
At the beginning of your end step, you may pay 3 life. If you do, return target Curse card in your graveyard to your hand.
4B, Discard a Curse card: Target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.
3/3
I wanted Matata to interact with all curses but wanted his color identity to be for the most part mono-black so as to avoid one of the biggest traps known where the more colors you add to a commander the more you are encouraged into a multicolor goodstuff deck. As a five-color commander that interacted with curses would also need to build with basic enchantments like Enchantress's Presence, Copy Enchantment, Sterling Grove, Enchanted Evening or Opalescence .
While recovering enchantments in general is not black's wheelhouse, interacting with a very small subset of enchantments could be within that wheelhouse. Just like how every color can interact with equipment but its white specifically that focuses in a positive manner with equipment like Sram, Senior Edificer, Steelshaper's Gift or Sigarda's Aid as quick examples
Oh I got one: Spell Swindle a 5 mana spell. 5 lands + 5 treasures = Ascend Achieved.
There is also probably some other tricks that Kaladesh and/or Amonkhet block have to offer when it comes to reaching 10 permanents with the greatest of ease.