To paraphrase kpaca, I really really don't like your scummy use of italic letters
I can show you multiple of my posts both in games of mafia, and in my posts around salvation where I use italics. I like them because they help me emphasize my point, and it is just a habit I have gotten into.
First hint about his eagerness to jump onto wagons.
That is a rather odd interpretation, when my point was simply that using I's was not enough to make me scream scum, but something that when seen with other tells, can help determine that the person is in fact scum.
Non-vote bolded is my emphasis. That first sentence after the vote is terrible. It serves no reason but work as a preemptive justification allowing you to hop around with your vote unquestioned on the pretense of being "aggressive". It also nullifies any possible meta argument we could bring about you, as a player, being generally careful with your vote.
All this point shows is that you have not played a game with me. If you ask anyone who has played with me in the last 2 years, they would tell you my voting style, regardless of alignment, has always been very conservative. My point with the bolded was to demonstrate I am trying something new.
Not only that, but there are no questionings whatsoever directed at Rhand bar a simple opinion request at the end of it. What is this vote, a /barn of what?
What is your point here?
Second hint about about his eagerness on wagons. But they need to seem legit, right?
You are making some awfully large leaps of faith on me as scum, based on my language/use of text. You seem to be set on me being scum, using my posts to make your point, rather than the opposite.
Ok, so his reasons to vote Rhand seems to be his vote on me and his perceived insincerity about disliking SK. Only question for his scum suspect is about his scum meta. Although Rhand delivers his one scum game to be looked at in #300, TCM never addresses it.
I am in three games, (one I just replaced into) and hosting another one. As you are playing with me in the forbidden lounge, cut me some slack on me being delayed. I will be blunt and say what I am looking for in that game is to see if Rhand buddied up to anyone as scum, how he did it, and how frequently.
Whoo boy. Look at that vote. After the Rhand wagon goes nowhere, he casts a completely /barn vote on the wagon with currently more votes. Hawk had 4 votes at that point, one of them from Rhand, TCM's previous scum suspect.
1). What would you have me do, keep my vote on Rhand that's doing nothing?
2). I would hardly call a single vote on Rhand "a wagon".
I won't even bring the Kpaca's Scummy Use of Italic Letters(tm) argument again because it's not needed at all.
Except you clearly do, as this is the second time you mentioned it in this case.
You have addressed Shark and AE about the pressure votes on lurkers directly, and me indirectly. You saw nothing wrong with us voting the lurkers simply because they were lurking. You yourself said you were all in for lynching lurkers.
Then, suddenly, you accuse hawk, who was doing the exact same thing as me, AE and Shark, of mindlessly barning the people that were voting for the lurkers? You vote hawk for barning something you clearly stated you agreed with?
Hawk's answers have been really poor up until this point. Like Rhand, I felt like he was also trying to buddy up to me in the early game, while making a few posts before I disliked (one of which, you quoted). What sold me was when his wagon starting to form, he immediately called out "a scum slip" on Rhand. Seeing how the EtR v. SF thing went along on a slip SF saw, I saw this as Hawk's attempt to try and undermine the ladder, deflect pressure onto Rhand.
Oh no, hell no. You just want to (mis)lynch someone, and without any decent reasons whatsoever, you've latched on the low-hanging fruit with nothing more than a barn vote, betraying yourself in the process. You're scum.
There are an awfully lot of bold assumptions you're making, based primarily off language tells, and your own arrogance is quite irritating in this post. Your "case" seems primarily an attempt to start a new wagon, finding a barn post as your starting point, and trying to tie in some language tells to get people interested.
@Storm:
1). How did you read Void before that vote?
2). Is the "his lurking" at the end of your post referring to Void or KK?
@Nyxu:
Are you full in the game (finished reread)? If so, what do you think of KK, and SF (you already addressed EtR).
If you really want an answer to your question, restate them rather than make me go hunting for my specific posts to make you happy. It reeks of laziness.
My vote on TMCT was simply the third vote on the wagon, a standard way to bring the RVS to an end (at least in my time)...
As far as the "after my lynch", I meant after my vote. You made some shakey plays including what I stated in that initial post.
If there is anything else, restate it.
So instead of pointing out that my questions aren't asked in a way that pleases you, you chose to ignore them? What a very helpful mindset.
I did nothing of the sort. I stated that I was not going to go hunting for stuff you asked pages ago. When I originally saw your question, I thought you meant the one you recently asked I forgot to respond to (why did I vote TMCT). Only when I reread your giant text and saw it was questions did I realize it was plural. I had to go back and hunt down the questions, quote them by copy pasting (because screw muiltiquotes) which takes time. If you had instead restated your questions, it would have been a heck of lot easier to respond.
The shakey plays: point them out please?
You mean, like I already have? I made the point that the jump onto KK was bad when you stated you dislike SF, and my point was that I believe your mindset if scum, would have been because KK was an easier wagon to get going at SF at the time.
In addition, the initial jump onto me as town really seemed off. From my own perspective, it seemed null completely, which is why I was head scratching at SF. Your justification for jumping on KK seems to be a giant argument of semantics while I really can't see where you are coming from, I can't really disprove it (he doesn't think about his posts, he just posts what he thinks).
In addition, you say to Void that your vote on KK is primarily meta, which I am sensing from your post is the primary (if not, only) reason you are on his wagon.
As far as the "unless you have another reason". I was calling out SF on trying to claim a "gotcha" tell. Why I think he has another reason is because he said we both "slipped", yet he is going after EtR over me. I am curious why that is...
Why such trepidation in asking?
Asking a direct question means that it can be easier to fabricate an answer.
Do you agree with EtR's logic in his responses for making each post to TMCT and 7hawk77? Do you believe that his reasoning is valid and can be clearly seen from those posts?
I do. Specifically towards his last post to TMCT, he seems to be justifying why his response towards the number of chimes is valid. I say this because his post hurt my head, and makes me think that the discussion is nothing more than splitting hairs over why he slipped or didn't. The only thing I disliked from him was playing the whole "why me, and not TCM", primarily because I remember reading that trying to redirect like that can be considered a scum tell, but it this particular event, I thought the same thing so I can't really hold that against him.
This is the post I mentioned where I don't understand what you are saying and that I asked you to restate.[/QUOTE]
So this was the question I missed?
Essentially, I read his post, and trying to keep up with it, he was really hurting my head. Trying to follow the line of logic made sense, but it was so tedious, I had to stop reading and start reading. My point with the second half is that it seems what SF and EtR were fighting over was really nothing that big of a deal. They are arguing what EtR actually meant, has the term "splitting hairs" (do you understand that meaning? I don't ask out of rudeness, only because I realize english isn't your first language).
My second point is that when a mafia player is called out for an action (such as jumping on a wagon, later found out to be town), it can be a scum tell to try to redirect to another player who did the same thing. In this particaular case, I don't think it's too solid, but it was something that caught my eye.
If you really want an answer to your question, restate them rather than make me go hunting for my specific posts to make you happy. It reeks of laziness.
My vote on TMCT was simply the third vote on the wagon, a standard way to bring the RVS to an end (at least in my time)...
As far as the "after my lynch", I meant after my vote. You made some shakey plays including what I stated in that initial post.
When I say mindlessly, I mean sheeping. I say mindless because the thought of what you were going through, and I was calling you out on that because your actions towards the lurkers implies that you were doing it "because you thought everyone else doing it".
If you are going to be pissy about it, I won't use the term "mindlessly" anymore. I meant no offense.
After reading the last few posts, I really have been disliking hawk as of late. Before I respond though, I am confused with some of these last few posts of determine the motive of chimes vs. sk. In reality, both roles are anti-town, we should be gunning for both. Knowing the difference implies searching for anti-town players, or player(s) who seem to be trying to stay in the middle respectively.
[QUOTE=7hawk77;/comments/10878914]@Arian, How did you not notice the talk between me and Shark but found enough evidence against me that you wanted to lynch me? Grats on your third barn vote...
Not ever vote can be an original vote. Take this one for instance: Unvote Rhand, Vote hawk777. That was a barn vote, because other players made a better case on you that what I currently have on Rhand.
@Rhand
What question have I not answered?
Also I voted RLevine to pressure him in to playing. I thoughtthat's why people started voting for the lurkers.
So you were mindlessly barning because you thought that's why people were voting the lurkers?
I would really, really, really appreciate if Truk, Misting and RL (or their replacements) could get their buttocks here and start playing the game. We can't have 3 people lurking that hard, especially during Day 1.
RL in special has one fricking post in the entire game. Imagine if it wasn't a League one...
Gonna bet at least 1 of 3 are scum. Who do you wanna start pushing?
I am all for lynching lurkers, but how exactly did you figure at least one is a chime? I am guessing by the activity levels, and the fact that RL is a judge (my apologies for OoG a tad), that their lack of activity has more to do with time, than simply lurking.
I would really, really, really appreciate if Truk, Misting and RL (or their replacements) could get their buttocks here and start playing the game. We can't have 3 people lurking that hard, especially during Day 1.
RL in special has one fricking post in the entire game. Imagine if it wasn't a League one...
Gonna bet at least 1 of 3 are scum. Who do you wanna start pushing?
All three. You pick one KK pick one and I'll pick
vote truk
You don't need everyone to make a vote, what are your thoughts on Rhand?
@Misting: From what I read from your verdicts, it seems that your town read on SF is contigent on EtR being a chime. How does that change if EtR flips town/sk?
As the day starts, the immediate belief of Tom being guilty. As you open the door to his quarters, you see him still asleep. As one of you turns the body around, you see his eyes still open, with quite a few bruises all over his head, and that same hammer that claimed Seppel's life. You immediately recognize Tom as Andrew Jackson, Town Double Voter, and realize that another noble man has died.
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
Andrew Jackson (Town Double Voter)
Tom, You are Andrew Jackson(March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845)
The Hero of New Orleans, and the first democratic president, you were quite the fireball during your reign and before. In 1831, you declared war on the United States bank calling it a corrupted instrument of the rich, and in 1833, you dealt with the first real threat to the union: The Nullification crisis in South Carolina. Considered one of the best presidents by historians, your fame knows no bounds.
During the day, you may vote twice. You may vote the same player twice, however, to move votes, you MUST be specific with who you are unvoting. (I.E. Vote Player A, Unvote Player B, Vote Player A)
Ganderin_dan (3): Voxxicus, Tom, Tom
As the gathering comes around again, tensions flare. Both Tom and Voxxicusargue largely over what has been said, trying to find even the smallest of hint of deception. Dan comes in to say that perhaps if he is not trusted, he should go next. While the response is dismissed at first, the sudden thought that he was pulling a trick became realized. As both Tom and Voxxicus turn toward G_d, he suddenly realizes they mean to end him. Panicking, he begs that he was simply joking, but it is far too late. Voxxicus holds him down while Tom beats the living crap out of Reggie Jackson, Town Vanilla. Realizing the horror both men brought down upon themselves, they retreat to their rooms, while Rick Santorum and Void watch in solemn silence.
It is now night 6. You have 72 hours to get your actions into me.
Reggie Jackson (Town Vanilla)
Cythare, You are Reggie Jackson (Dates unknown ) As one of the first African American baseball players to participate on an all-white Baseball league, you helped to break the color barriers in professional sports. Nowadays, there is no such thing as a white or black league, only a professional league. In addition to your contributions to African Americans in the professional league, you were brought up to the hall of fame in 1993, and uniform #44 was officially retired from the New York Yankees.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player.
Do you agree with EtR's logic in his responses for making each post to TMCT and 7hawk77? Do you believe that his reasoning is valid and can be clearly seen from those posts?
I do. Specifically towards his last post to TMCT, he seems to be justifying why his response towards the number of chimes is valid. I say this because his post hurt my head, and makes me think that the discussion is nothing more than splitting hairs over why he slipped or didn't. The only thing I disliked from him was playing the whole "why me, and not TCM", primarily because I remember reading that trying to redirect like that can be considered a scum tell, but it this particular event, I thought the same thing so I can't really hold that against him.
Edit via double. I should have clarified RE TCM and Cantrip specifically -- I know Cantrip has been busy lately, and I know that TCM posted not too long ago ... but compared to the amount of content that I'm used to seeing TCM generate, I feel like he is being unusually quiet...especially since he's been reading differently to me than he did in OT2R.
I just posted yesterday and work a pair of jobs. Keep in mind that there is still a a few people who have yet to make a real post, and a few others who have not posted much. As much as I want to try and more forward with Rhand, I want to see what RL thinks, I want to see how AE is coming along with his read, I want to continue seeing if anything changes in the whole EtR v. SF thing goes. And with mild curiosity, I am keeping an eye on KK.
My posting style starts out slow in the early game, and picks up. I excel at the dead body analysis part of the game.
This format is the same as standard price wise. Most decks are around 500-600 dollars. Only goyfs push it up. This might end up being one of moderns problems (It's affordability).
As for monthly banned lists I support new formats getting a monthly banned list for 2 years. That sets the "Flesh the metagame out" button on turbo.
For the record, that is no where near legacy prices nowadays. With Goyfs at and all time high, and blue duals creeping towards that triple digit mark (Jace has been there, taken pictures, and come back), a good legacy deck price wise will probably run you over 1000$, with storm, dredge, burn, and affinity aside.
Perhaps what the format needs is not necessarily an unban, but a new toy for blue. There is speculation that counterspell might comeback one of these days, and personally, I think modern would greatly benefit from such a card.
Me neither. I have been trying to see this whole SF vs EtR situation, and just can't see the motivation behind a scum EtR making a post like that, giving away too much information. I am not saying his post about the chimes was a good post, but I wouldn't want a wagon on him simply for that. I will keep looking.
Rhand's posts after my lynch really are making me think I have one pegged. His whole vote on Kosa, even after saying he dislike SF seems insincere. I am looking at it by seeing that at this point (in my opinion) Kosa is more likely to draw a wagon than SF is based on my reads of all of you.
I can't compare to scumkk, but the confidence with which he posts and the involvement he shows are not the townkk that I know.
His posts come off as too calculated.
Why is being calculated a scum tell? My entire post you called me town for was nothing more than a calculation...
Town doesn't need to consciously try not to look scummy.
I disagree. If townies posts came off scummy, they can get lynched just as fast a mafia member who came off scummy. It is in the town players best interest to make their thoughts sincere, without coming off murky.
@Rhand: Do you have any finished scum games completed to date?
Everyone scrambles for the gun dropped. Only after seeing that there are in fact no bullets left in the gun is everyone satisfied that no one will be dying from gun shots today...
Well, this should be fun...
I can show you multiple of my posts both in games of mafia, and in my posts around salvation where I use italics. I like them because they help me emphasize my point, and it is just a habit I have gotten into.
That is a rather odd interpretation, when my point was simply that using I's was not enough to make me scream scum, but something that when seen with other tells, can help determine that the person is in fact scum.
All this point shows is that you have not played a game with me. If you ask anyone who has played with me in the last 2 years, they would tell you my voting style, regardless of alignment, has always been very conservative. My point with the bolded was to demonstrate I am trying something new.
What is your point here?
You are making some awfully large leaps of faith on me as scum, based on my language/use of text. You seem to be set on me being scum, using my posts to make your point, rather than the opposite.
I am in three games, (one I just replaced into) and hosting another one. As you are playing with me in the forbidden lounge, cut me some slack on me being delayed. I will be blunt and say what I am looking for in that game is to see if Rhand buddied up to anyone as scum, how he did it, and how frequently.
1). What would you have me do, keep my vote on Rhand that's doing nothing?
2). I would hardly call a single vote on Rhand "a wagon".
Except you clearly do, as this is the second time you mentioned it in this case.
Hawk's answers have been really poor up until this point. Like Rhand, I felt like he was also trying to buddy up to me in the early game, while making a few posts before I disliked (one of which, you quoted). What sold me was when his wagon starting to form, he immediately called out "a scum slip" on Rhand. Seeing how the EtR v. SF thing went along on a slip SF saw, I saw this as Hawk's attempt to try and undermine the ladder, deflect pressure onto Rhand.
There are an awfully lot of bold assumptions you're making, based primarily off language tells, and your own arrogance is quite irritating in this post. Your "case" seems primarily an attempt to start a new wagon, finding a barn post as your starting point, and trying to tie in some language tells to get people interested.
@Storm:
1). How did you read Void before that vote?
2). Is the "his lurking" at the end of your post referring to Void or KK?
@Nyxu:
Are you full in the game (finished reread)? If so, what do you think of KK, and SF (you already addressed EtR).
I did nothing of the sort. I stated that I was not going to go hunting for stuff you asked pages ago. When I originally saw your question, I thought you meant the one you recently asked I forgot to respond to (why did I vote TMCT). Only when I reread your giant text and saw it was questions did I realize it was plural. I had to go back and hunt down the questions, quote them by copy pasting (because screw muiltiquotes) which takes time. If you had instead restated your questions, it would have been a heck of lot easier to respond.
You mean, like I already have? I made the point that the jump onto KK was bad when you stated you dislike SF, and my point was that I believe your mindset if scum, would have been because KK was an easier wagon to get going at SF at the time.
In addition, the initial jump onto me as town really seemed off. From my own perspective, it seemed null completely, which is why I was head scratching at SF. Your justification for jumping on KK seems to be a giant argument of semantics while I really can't see where you are coming from, I can't really disprove it (he doesn't think about his posts, he just posts what he thinks).
In addition, you say to Void that your vote on KK is primarily meta, which I am sensing from your post is the primary (if not, only) reason you are on his wagon.
Asking a direct question means that it can be easier to fabricate an answer.
This is your response to Cyouni. I can't find the answer you promised.
This is the post I mentioned where I don't understand what you are saying and that I asked you to restate.[/QUOTE]
So this was the question I missed?
Essentially, I read his post, and trying to keep up with it, he was really hurting my head. Trying to follow the line of logic made sense, but it was so tedious, I had to stop reading and start reading. My point with the second half is that it seems what SF and EtR were fighting over was really nothing that big of a deal. They are arguing what EtR actually meant, has the term "splitting hairs" (do you understand that meaning? I don't ask out of rudeness, only because I realize english isn't your first language).
My second point is that when a mafia player is called out for an action (such as jumping on a wagon, later found out to be town), it can be a scum tell to try to redirect to another player who did the same thing. In this particaular case, I don't think it's too solid, but it was something that caught my eye.
If you really want an answer to your question, restate them rather than make me go hunting for my specific posts to make you happy. It reeks of laziness.
My vote on TMCT was simply the third vote on the wagon, a standard way to bring the RVS to an end (at least in my time)...
As far as the "after my lynch", I meant after my vote. You made some shakey plays including what I stated in that initial post.
If there is anything else, restate it.
If you are going to be pissy about it, I won't use the term "mindlessly" anymore. I meant no offense.
Not ever vote can be an original vote. Take this one for instance: Unvote Rhand, Vote hawk777. That was a barn vote, because other players made a better case on you that what I currently have on Rhand.
I am not quite sure how you read the quoted as a slip, while in the same breath, imply that the sk and town are super best friends.
So you were mindlessly barning because you thought that's why people were voting the lurkers?
I am all for lynching lurkers, but how exactly did you figure at least one is a chime? I am guessing by the activity levels, and the fact that RL is a judge (my apologies for OoG a tad), that their lack of activity has more to do with time, than simply lurking.
You don't need everyone to make a vote, what are your thoughts on Rhand?
@Misting: From what I read from your verdicts, it seems that your town read on SF is contigent on EtR being a chime. How does that change if EtR flips town/sk?
With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.
Andrew Jackson (Town Double Voter)
Tom, You are Andrew Jackson (March 15, 1767 – June 8, 1845)
The Hero of New Orleans, and the first democratic president, you were quite the fireball during your reign and before. In 1831, you declared war on the United States bank calling it a corrupted instrument of the rich, and in 1833, you dealt with the first real threat to the union: The Nullification crisis in South Carolina. Considered one of the best presidents by historians, your fame knows no bounds.
During the day, you may vote twice. You may vote the same player twice, however, to move votes, you MUST be specific with who you are unvoting. (I.E. Vote Player A, Unvote Player B, Vote Player A)
As the gathering comes around again, tensions flare. Both Tom and Voxxicus argue largely over what has been said, trying to find even the smallest of hint of deception. Dan comes in to say that perhaps if he is not trusted, he should go next. While the response is dismissed at first, the sudden thought that he was pulling a trick became realized. As both Tom and Voxxicus turn toward G_d, he suddenly realizes they mean to end him. Panicking, he begs that he was simply joking, but it is far too late. Voxxicus holds him down while Tom beats the living crap out of Reggie Jackson, Town Vanilla. Realizing the horror both men brought down upon themselves, they retreat to their rooms, while Rick Santorum and Void watch in solemn silence.
It is now night 6. You have 72 hours to get your actions into me.
Reggie Jackson (Town Vanilla)
Cythare, You are Reggie Jackson (Dates unknown )
As one of the first African American baseball players to participate on an all-white Baseball league, you helped to break the color barriers in professional sports. Nowadays, there is no such thing as a white or black league, only a professional league. In addition to your contributions to African Americans in the professional league, you were brought up to the hall of fame in 1993, and uniform #44 was officially retired from the New York Yankees.
Abilities: During the day, you may vote for any player.
I do. Specifically towards his last post to TMCT, he seems to be justifying why his response towards the number of chimes is valid. I say this because his post hurt my head, and makes me think that the discussion is nothing more than splitting hairs over why he slipped or didn't. The only thing I disliked from him was playing the whole "why me, and not TCM", primarily because I remember reading that trying to redirect like that can be considered a scum tell, but it this particular event, I thought the same thing so I can't really hold that against him.
I just posted yesterday and work a pair of jobs. Keep in mind that there is still a a few people who have yet to make a real post, and a few others who have not posted much. As much as I want to try and more forward with Rhand, I want to see what RL thinks, I want to see how AE is coming along with his read, I want to continue seeing if anything changes in the whole EtR v. SF thing goes. And with mild curiosity, I am keeping an eye on KK.
My posting style starts out slow in the early game, and picks up. I excel at the dead body analysis part of the game.
For the record, that is no where near legacy prices nowadays. With Goyfs at and all time high, and blue duals creeping towards that triple digit mark (Jace has been there, taken pictures, and come back), a good legacy deck price wise will probably run you over 1000$, with storm, dredge, burn, and affinity aside.
Perhaps what the format needs is not necessarily an unban, but a new toy for blue. There is speculation that counterspell might comeback one of these days, and personally, I think modern would greatly benefit from such a card.
Rhand's posts after my lynch really are making me think I have one pegged. His whole vote on Kosa, even after saying he dislike SF seems insincere. I am looking at it by seeing that at this point (in my opinion) Kosa is more likely to draw a wagon than SF is based on my reads of all of you.
Why is being calculated a scum tell? My entire post you called me town for was nothing more than a calculation...
I disagree. If townies posts came off scummy, they can get lynched just as fast a mafia member who came off scummy. It is in the town players best interest to make their thoughts sincere, without coming off murky.
@Rhand: Do you have any finished scum games completed to date?
Tom (1): Void
Not Voting (4): Everyone else.
With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.