I also remember exlight acting a bit fidgety in the other game we were playing in, I made the foolish mistake of hammering him, and him flipping town. I feel history is repeating itself here, except this time he isn't so vanilla.
I really hope he wasn't pulling the "slayer gambit"
Waiting on Naka, make sure we don't lynch anyone before I finish my conversation with her.
That couldn't be a reference to #29, would it?
Btw, is I strongly support naka's "aggressive" stance on being cop. If not forced to claim, naka would have been able to do reads, and be less likely to by NKed by the mafia.
I also recommend no one gets lynched until we get that replacement in.
I still think you're scum, and I think Naka's scum. However, its been made clear that no one else is going to touch your lynch, and I'm not going to try and lynch a not-counter-claimed cop on Day 1 based on a read. Working under the assumption that my theory's wrong, I think ExLight is the next most likely scum. You seem to agree that he's scummy in some form, as you want answers too.
I think your flip-flopping looks bad, but I also believe that your opinion on me is townish, as why would you draw attention to yourself calling me scum, if most of the others have a town read on me...
Just keeping an eye on you, no need to worry about that if your town
While I stand by my theory, its become clear that no one else is interested, so I'm just going to let it die for now.
As such, Unvote
The lynch I'm currently most comfortable with, then, is probably ExLight. The points that Tacky have against him make a lot of sense. By my count, he's only at 2 votes, so I feel fine pressuring him: Vote: ExLight
He hasn't had too much time to post yet, due to the replacement, so hopefully this pressure lets us get a better read.
Well, that was quite a reversal. You try to start a wagon, and so quickly, you jump from me, don't even go after the other scum in your scum buddy theory, but for the hot topic lynch right now, exlight? FoS quietfish
Exlight, that doesn't excuse you, still waiting on an answer...
My point was that you appear to be a very different person when someone is accusing you and for all the times people said I was flailing I feel that the flailing accusations are suspiciously absent here. His point was that the vast majority of your posts quietly followed nakamura in such a way that you can still deny them. Yet the matter still stands that you have added very little other than barning naka a lot.
And in this early stage, there isn't much to do. Talk, question, examine, ect. Again, your always barning naka part is pure crap. Naka is the only one really coming up with ideas. I read TACKY and Indombug's introduction posts and while I thought they had good points, I would rather see how interactions between these guys and others would play out.
The "here's a thought" part is pure WIFOM.
You don't say? The entire case of me and naka being scum buddies is complete WIFOM. He saw a couple of interactions, and chose to see each and every post we had as a giant conspiracy. Nothing I could have responded to would have satisfied him, and I think we both know that.
At the game 28 thing: yeah my bad I just read the initial post i was kinda negligent there lemme add it:15/28 is still better than 50% for no cop.
Well, check the games, 29 in particular didn't have a cop, but had a watcher. The odds are that we have some tracker like role is naka is lying. So its very simple, if naka is lying, we probably have that role on our side since he/she hasn't been counterclaimed, and that person should watch/track naka. Easy fix. (note, this is not an invitation to claim).
Again, will try to reread the thread when I get the chance.
? I don't understand. They are about the same person? TIK replaced Khorney correct?
Correct
I assume what you are trying to say here as that as AL is not dead yet you must be a doc? Even I see issues with that logic. Have you actually proved you are town and I have missed it? If so i'd be happy to see it.
No, I am saying that because both me and AL are still alive, we are both probably town, otherwise if one of us is scum, the other one us would be dead. My theory anyway.
Also If you read TIK's post you will see a very different TIK than before. This TIK has teeth. He lashes out at quietfish with strong words and seems quite rattled. In fact I would ask that everyone please go back and read my posts in which I "flailed" and then re-read TIK's post and see the similarities. And yet Naka doesn't mention how TIK flailed. Naka has some absurd double standards all in an attempt to toss me into the electric chair.
Rattled? I think not. I simply pointed out several flaws, and expressed my being upset at the fact that his entire theory is based off a really off the wall theory. Me or naka throws off the entire theory, and if one of us is scum, the other flipping town almost entirely clears him...(WIFOM i know, but still)
Here is a thought: If Naka was trying to claim PR in order to either stay safe or expose the cop, why would I want to be anywhere near naka?
IMPORTANT NOTE- I did my best researching these games, if I made a mistake I am sorry and will try to correct it ASAP.
28 does in fact, did have a cop, confirmed the first post of day 3...
So, I was re-reading the thread, trying to make sense of whats going on. And I came across this gem. I actually ran nearly this exact gambit as scum in a game on another site, trying to convince the town that it makes sense for a uncounterclaimed power role to not be killed by the Mafia because it can just be roleblocked, when actually the Mafia just has alternative reasons to keep them alive. In this case, my theory is that Naka is Mafia, as is Ice King, and this whole cop claim is a gambit. This post keeps the pressure off naka in the event that he survives the night (note that the doctor protection won't do it, as the Mafia plans on killing someone else).
This post in itself is obviously not enough, there's an element of WIFOM involved (although, IMO, small). As such, I went through the game looking at the Naka/Ice King interactions. The PBPA follows:
Amusing, this should be fun. Thank you for at least getting involved. If you look at any of my games, I am not really that active as a scum hunter. I really won't bother at this stage of the game, but I will be documenting certain articles: My responses are in the spoiler:
This is the second post in the game for each of them (first posts were largely irrelevant). Not much here, but it sets the tone for many of the interactions to follow. Of note is Ice King acting passively, asking for discussion lines to follow while Naka takes control and directs the town as its leader by supplying a discussion route. These attitudes complement each other, as a self-imposed leader with a guy following him is much more influential than a leader with no followers.
I am not much of a leader, I simply prefer the follower pospect, until I get my own lead to follow.
Naka keeps posturing to be the leader of the town. Her directive at the end of each post is soon to become classic Naka, and makes it clear she is trying to lead the flow of the towns discussion.
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Again, a directive at the end of the post. A less serious one, but still, a clear leadership role by Naka.
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Ice wanders back into the game here, having been absent through the whole draco episode and the poggy tasteless claim. Somehow, he's missed all that. Hopefully a leader can step in and show him the light...
I didn't miss it, I just didn't see it as condemning as naka did. And leader or not, I would have reread it myself.
Hoorah! So Naka directs Ice, how will he take it?
Beautiful. He does respond to Nakas direction, further reinforcing his passive-willing-to-be-led-by-Naka style. He then goes on to say that the town needs to organize itself. Hmmm...so he follows Naka, and the subtly suggest that others do the same. However, he doesn't respond to the tasteless claim as Naka asked, so, way to show some backbone.
Does the term Self-fufilling prophecy come to mind here?
Oh, nvm. He corrects that oversight shortly (note that there was only 1 post, one of bebos, between this one and the one before). So, Ice continues to follow Nakas direction. But in this post a new trend begins to emerge: he's following Naka, but he's also opposing her opinion, as Naka thinks poggy claim is significant. It is certainly a little odd to follow someone who you don't think is on the right trail.
Are you trying to imply that I should blindly follow? Just because I am listening and nodding my head at naka doesn't mean I believe it to be fact.
So, Naka begins to push for a softclaim, and Ice King responds (being led to the discussion), but again, opposes Naka, lightly chastising her. In my mind, its becoming clear that this was a set-up plan: Naka trys to become a leader, Ice King supports her subtly by following, but opposes her opinions instead of barning her so that when one flips scum, the other doesn't go down. Its interesting that >90% of Ice Kings posts are interactions with Naka, and no one noticed because the intense buddying Naka had with Shalako overshadowed it.
Well, when Naka is running the show, no surprose that most of my comments are aimed at him/her?
Ice King opposes Naka's proposed claim, but states his willingness to be led along a different path. The same posturing as always.
I think that particular path could give the scum too much information. If there is one that is less beneficial to scum while being good for town, I am all ears...
This is in response to the above Ice post. Tacky mentioned in his PBPA that the why don't you propose a soft-claim comment is a pretty clear jab at Ice, I agree. It establishes animosity between the two, but at the same time, reinforces the leadership posturing thats been going on the whole time.
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Ice actually strikes out on his own a bit here. Sure, he does so in support of Nakas campaign on poggy, but its a bit different from the norm and worth noting. In the second paragraph, theres a really cool interaction: on the surface he's opposing Naka, as hes just laughing in his face, as Naka just called poggy out on being scummy for FoS instead of voting. However, by acknowledging the issue at all, Ice King is tacitly implying that Naka's opinions are of critical importance -- she's his leader, even when they disagree. He then, makes sure to respond to Naka. Can't ignore the leader
Well, can't really respond to that. I feel suspicious of poggy, but since he is getting votes his way, I see no reason why I should set up the possibility of a quick hammer. If you have an issue with that, please let me know.
The important part is the second paragraph, the incoming wrath at Ice King for being conservative with his vote.
...
Oh wait...
Yeah, she called him on it....but it was really lukewarm. Get your heart into it, Naka! Poggy got so much more fire for the exact same thing. Others have commented on this, and its really pretty scummy.
If I choose to be conservative with my vote, that is my choice. Get over it.
Ice king is continuing to be nearly the perfect follower, although he's branching out from just Naka. He's responding to every issue on the table, but not really providing new content, or even attempting to forge discussion ahead. The whole point of establishing Naka as a leader was so that people would go where she lead. She lead to the poggy wagon, and now Ice is distancing himself slightly from her, while still being a follower. He's also now supporting the poggy wagon: sensing weakness, the Mafia strikes on poor flailing poggy. Also of note is that his self-meta is way off here: he claims he likes being the center of attention, but has clearly allowed himself to be led to this point.
Well, I really didn't land a hammer or anything to end day 1 quickly, so I am guessing no one really has an issue with me. I also feel like we have quite a few lurkers so we are missing so important imput. No one really sees me as suspicious, so I don't have much to say. I am keeping my eyes open, and when I see something that bothers me, I am going to call it out, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
At this point, Naka dissappears and Tacky calls attention to how scummy Naka has been, and the Naka wagon starts. Ice King is conspiciously absent...and then Shalako makes some pressure comment and votes him:
Ice King responds promptly to that, despite staying quiet on nearly everything else. Pretty scummy. Also, there is no content in this post.
Well, shalako was voting me, and I said state your reasons. Shalako called off his dogs, I saw no reason to pursue it. I just assumed it was one of his tests.
Makes the totally legitimate case to slow down the Naka wagon as she is not here. Rest of the post doesn't have much in it, aside from pointedly not flailing under one vote. The naka thing is hard to characterize: it's a good play for anyone to slow down the wagon while she's not here, but, if she's mafia, its 100% necessary for her scumbuddies to do so.
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Another content-light post. I kind of feel like Ice is trying hard to stay visible while not saying too much. The most content-filled thing is the @ Bug, which is cute, in that he says he doesn't think shalako and naka are both scum...clearly he doesn't think one of them is scum, but doesn't say which, so that he can equivocate it later, depending on if they decide to buss naka or not. I think the townie play would be to say which one you think is not mafia.
It means I think either both are town or at leas one is town. I am leaning towards both being town. There interaction, to me, suggests they both arn't scum.
There was some debate over this later about whether or not Naka claimed a power role. Its clear to me that he strongly hinted at it. It would have been really easy to just ignore the whole thing, or post an explanation of why a vanilla townie should play as hes been playing. Instead, he's setting the stage for his cop claim.
Can't speak for Naka, but I have a theory to why he played like that. Not going to say it since naka could just barn with it and escape your questions.
Ice is finally back. Apparently the completely reasonable amount of action and the two major cases (Naka and Poggy) bore him. Sorry. He then manages to post very little content, aside from saying that nothing is confirmed yet -- which is fairly obvious.
Meant recent activity. It also should have been taken as a joking post.
Ice jumping on heartwork in the defense of naka. Heart's point was pretty valid, and this post of Ice's is kind of shady. I mean, if you don't think naka claimed power role, fine. However, I see no reason to vote Heart here. It's a reasonable interpretation of naka's post. Ice doesn't give a reason for voting heart, just refutes heart's vote placement. Also, I totally remember him claiming to be a conservative voter....
I believe that was a bit of a slip on his part, and a put a vote on to see if I could get a reaction. I saw his post as shady and moved on that idea.
Yet another TIK post that doesn't prove much content, just kind of meanders in there and answers a question and drifts back out. He has yet to make a solid case for anything.
what would I make a case on? Several users haven't really posted much and naka and poggy and naka are already having their every post examined. I'd rather wait to see what the lurkers are thinking...
Woah. That's a lot of exclamation points. Yes, Poggy made a mistake. Kind of a shady mistake. And then you just HoS him instead of a vote. You voted Heartwork for FAR less. I kind of feel like you can't vote poggy because that would be too many scum on his wagon, trying to stay clear. I don't know.
Yes, it was a mistake. It was a mistake that also meant the diffrence between silence and claiming. That is a pretty big error to make. Scum trying to fish, it is easy to claim a mistake, espceially if naka was forced to reveal the PR card earliar than he should have. It would be easy to leave him alone and go after someone else, right?
Ice King, saying obvious things and supporting Naka. Again, another perfect opportunity to shift his vote to poggy, who just suggested lynching an un-counter-claimed cop, but didn't. I maintain he is under scum 'orders' to not vote poggy in order to prevent the whole scum being on his wagon in the vote counts.
I get the impression you want me to prove you wrong by voting poggy right now. When/if I decide to vote poggy will be when I decide to vote poggy. No sooner, no later.
The post that started the re-read. This whole cop claim looks more and more like a huge scum gambit, more on this post-spoiler in the summary of my read of the scums plan.
And yet, no one is claiming cop. I wonder what that tells us....
Yeah. Support of his earlier RB theory, and an attempt to move on before everyone checks in on the CC. We have infinite time, so waiting for everyone to post saying their not CCing (or at least post so we know their aware) is not a bad idea. However, if there is a CC waiting in the wings and the scum speed lynch poggy before that happens...thats pretty good for them.
Well considering that the doc has not claimed yet, I seriously doubt the scum will chance killing Naka. And I doubt the scum will risk exposing themselves to speedlynch a player who is more likely to be a mislynch anyway, if poggy is truly scum.
[/quote]
I am going to suggest you stop this route and back off. I do like to fear monger, but I feel that I have to so get off your tunnel visioned ass and try again. Your entire theory is on the small chance that I decided at the beginning of the game to follow the leader, so to speak. You realize that as a scum, that is a horrible idea to be buddy-buddy with your scummates.
Your ending statement even confirms that: "If I flip scum, naka gets lynched". Which by the way is horrible reasoning. My alignment has no influence on the fact that naka is still an uncounterclaimed cop. I could also just be a scum trying to buddy up to naka, but no, you automatically assume that because of my interactions, we MUST be scum buddies. Your tunnel vision is amazing sir.
Intresting theory though, but I feel like you conscrewed the facts too much to fit your naka/TIK theory when in reality, the odds are neither of us are scum.
I also remember exlight acting a bit fidgety in the other game we were playing in, I made the foolish mistake of hammering him, and him flipping town. I feel history is repeating itself here, except this time he isn't so vanilla.
I disagree, I have heard about this that other countries, such as Africa do designate certain energy drinks as alcohol.
But, whatever. If you guys choose to lynch him, that's your choice. I want no part of it.
I am sure she was joking, but for reasons that only I, shalako, and naka know, if she really has two votes, I am really going to be pissed....
That couldn't be a reference to #29, would it?
Btw, is I strongly support naka's "aggressive" stance on being cop. If not forced to claim, naka would have been able to do reads, and be less likely to by NKed by the mafia.
I also recommend no one gets lynched until we get that replacement in.
If you are pretty sure you followed the bread crums correctly shalako, I really wish you didn't force exlights hand.....
I think your flip-flopping looks bad, but I also believe that your opinion on me is townish, as why would you draw attention to yourself calling me scum, if most of the others have a town read on me...
Just keeping an eye on you, no need to worry about that if your town
Well, that was quite a reversal. You try to start a wagon, and so quickly, you jump from me, don't even go after the other scum in your scum buddy theory, but for the hot topic lynch right now, exlight? FoS quietfish
Exlight, that doesn't excuse you, still waiting on an answer...
And in this early stage, there isn't much to do. Talk, question, examine, ect. Again, your always barning naka part is pure crap. Naka is the only one really coming up with ideas. I read TACKY and Indombug's introduction posts and while I thought they had good points, I would rather see how interactions between these guys and others would play out.
You don't say? The entire case of me and naka being scum buddies is complete WIFOM. He saw a couple of interactions, and chose to see each and every post we had as a giant conspiracy. Nothing I could have responded to would have satisfied him, and I think we both know that.
Well, check the games, 29 in particular didn't have a cop, but had a watcher. The odds are that we have some tracker like role is naka is lying. So its very simple, if naka is lying, we probably have that role on our side since he/she hasn't been counterclaimed, and that person should watch/track naka. Easy fix. (note, this is not an invitation to claim).
Again, will try to reread the thread when I get the chance.
Correct
No, I am saying that because both me and AL are still alive, we are both probably town, otherwise if one of us is scum, the other one us would be dead. My theory anyway.
Rattled? I think not. I simply pointed out several flaws, and expressed my being upset at the fact that his entire theory is based off a really off the wall theory. Me or naka throws off the entire theory, and if one of us is scum, the other flipping town almost entirely clears him...(WIFOM i know, but still)
Here is a thought: If Naka was trying to claim PR in order to either stay safe or expose the cop, why would I want to be anywhere near naka?
28 does in fact, did have a cop, confirmed the first post of day 3...
That being said, to anyone who reads quietfish's response: While he is dead wrong about me, I seriously doubt he is scum, just overzealous scum.
I think I will take a page from Zionite and do some rereads and use a bit of PoE. May take me a while though...
Amusing, this should be fun. Thank you for at least getting involved. If you look at any of my games, I am not really that active as a scum hunter. I really won't bother at this stage of the game, but I will be documenting certain articles: My responses are in the spoiler:
I am not much of a leader, I simply prefer the follower pospect, until I get my own lead to follow.
Null
Null
I didn't miss it, I just didn't see it as condemning as naka did. And leader or not, I would have reread it myself.
Does the term Self-fufilling prophecy come to mind here?
Are you trying to imply that I should blindly follow? Just because I am listening and nodding my head at naka doesn't mean I believe it to be fact.
Well, when Naka is running the show, no surprose that most of my comments are aimed at him/her?
I think that particular path could give the scum too much information. If there is one that is less beneficial to scum while being good for town, I am all ears...
Null
Well, can't really respond to that. I feel suspicious of poggy, but since he is getting votes his way, I see no reason why I should set up the possibility of a quick hammer. If you have an issue with that, please let me know.
If I choose to be conservative with my vote, that is my choice. Get over it.
Well, I really didn't land a hammer or anything to end day 1 quickly, so I am guessing no one really has an issue with me. I also feel like we have quite a few lurkers so we are missing so important imput. No one really sees me as suspicious, so I don't have much to say. I am keeping my eyes open, and when I see something that bothers me, I am going to call it out, if someone doesn't beat me to it.
Well, shalako was voting me, and I said state your reasons. Shalako called off his dogs, I saw no reason to pursue it. I just assumed it was one of his tests.
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It means I think either both are town or at leas one is town. I am leaning towards both being town. There interaction, to me, suggests they both arn't scum.
Can't speak for Naka, but I have a theory to why he played like that. Not going to say it since naka could just barn with it and escape your questions.
Meant recent activity. It also should have been taken as a joking post.
I believe that was a bit of a slip on his part, and a put a vote on to see if I could get a reaction. I saw his post as shady and moved on that idea.
what would I make a case on? Several users haven't really posted much and naka and poggy and naka are already having their every post examined. I'd rather wait to see what the lurkers are thinking...
Yes, it was a mistake. It was a mistake that also meant the diffrence between silence and claiming. That is a pretty big error to make. Scum trying to fish, it is easy to claim a mistake, espceially if naka was forced to reveal the PR card earliar than he should have. It would be easy to leave him alone and go after someone else, right?
I get the impression you want me to prove you wrong by voting poggy right now. When/if I decide to vote poggy will be when I decide to vote poggy. No sooner, no later.
And yet, no one is claiming cop. I wonder what that tells us....
Well considering that the doc has not claimed yet, I seriously doubt the scum will chance killing Naka. And I doubt the scum will risk exposing themselves to speedlynch a player who is more likely to be a mislynch anyway, if poggy is truly scum.
[/quote]
I am going to suggest you stop this route and back off. I do like to fear monger, but I feel that I have to so get off your tunnel visioned ass and try again. Your entire theory is on the small chance that I decided at the beginning of the game to follow the leader, so to speak. You realize that as a scum, that is a horrible idea to be buddy-buddy with your scummates.
Your ending statement even confirms that: "If I flip scum, naka gets lynched". Which by the way is horrible reasoning. My alignment has no influence on the fact that naka is still an uncounterclaimed cop. I could also just be a scum trying to buddy up to naka, but no, you automatically assume that because of my interactions, we MUST be scum buddies. Your tunnel vision is amazing sir.
Intresting theory though, but I feel like you conscrewed the facts too much to fit your naka/TIK theory when in reality, the odds are neither of us are scum.
@Bebo: I actually agree with exlight more than poggy at this point. It makes me want to vote him, but for now, I'll just **** my gun and prepare
*click-clack* Unvote heartwood