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    posted a message on libertarianism.
    Quote from MTGTCG »
    hey i'm back, hopefully you enjoyed your regularly scheduled broadcast of leftist echo chamber.

    on water distribution, why is this a problem? it is unlikely that a water provider would want to start charging monopoly prices as this is a highly ineffective strategy... communities that are gouged on water prices could truck in their water, get it from wells, or there could be a water providing business that approaches members of the community and agrees to build pipes and sell them water at a reasonable market price as long as the patrons agree to get their water from them for whatever amount of time is specified on the contract.

    on how the legal system would work, people would patronize private protection agencies which would offer them dispute resolution services in exchange for a monthly fee. now you might ask couldn't big businesses ignore the private protection agencies? well the big businesses wouldn't be able to stay big for very long if they spent revenue on a private army instead of reinvesting it back into the business. now wouldn't the private protection agencies fight each other?, well the answer to that is that it is unlikely that two protection agencies would fight each other because it is expensive and would be bad press, instead they would negotiate the dispute or they would choose a mutually agreed upon arbitrator to decide on the case.


    I'll let the people you responded to have the first crack, but why wouldn't water distributors change more if they could? Water isn't like a video game.
    Posted in: Debate
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    posted a message on Supreme Court Justice Nominees Gorsuch and Garland
    Quote from Surging Chaos »


    To be fair, Dred Scott v. Sandford has been universally and unequivocally condemned in retrospect by virtually every single individual as being one of the worst Supreme Court decisions ever made.


    I don't doubt that, but that's not what I am arguing. The 7-2 decision was clearly made along partisan lines (in this case, the 2 against both happened to be Northern Judges and of the 7, 5 were southern and 2 were from the west).

    What I'm talking about is more about hot-button issues that cause partisan lines to be drawn today. Let's take an example of a hot-button issue of its time: interracial marriage. As late as the 60s, interracial marriages were forbidden in many states. The Supreme Court ruled unanimously in Loving v. Virginia that all laws banning interracial marriage were unconstitutional. Let that sink in for a moment. In the politically-unstable environment of the early 60s, the Supreme Court made a 9-0 ruling on an issue that many people at the time had sheer hatred for. It was a non-partisan decision.


    And just a little bit later, the Civil Rights Act passed through the House of Represenatives with 78% of Democrats and 81% of Republicans backing it. Clearly, decisions in partisan politics can be made accross the party lines. I am not arguing that every case in the Supreme Court is going to have lines drawn between liberal and conservative, but to pretend that those lines don't exist is lying to yourself.

    Same thing for another landmark case of its time, such as Brown v. Board of Education. Again, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that state-enforced segregated schools were unconstitutional.

    Even Roe v. Wade wasn't a partisan decision. It wasn't unanimous, but at 7-2 the decision clearly was not split on partisan lines.


    AGain, not example or partisan. Abortion at the time was incredibly hot topic, and even today, can make the most liberal people uncomfortable (even if they overall agree with the right of choice)

    Now compare it to a similar hot-button issue of our time: gay marriage. The Obergefell v. Hodges case was a 5-4 decision. Not surprisingly, the decision was strictly made on partisan lines.


    I don't disagree. Partisan Politics has hit critical mass, peaked, is as bad as it ever was, ect. I am not disagreeing with that or calling any of your examples wrong. All I am arguing is that the SC has been partisan for a lot linger than this. Ginsburg's comments towards Trump are simply more direct than most presidents have seen. I have not


    I could go on and on. This is why the Supreme Court has become far more relevant than it has ever been. Judges no longer make non-partisan decisions like they used to. They strictly make the decisions based on whether the ruling lines up with their political ideology. A Supreme Court packed with liberals, for example, would severely undermine the 2nd Amendment. Conversely, a court packed with conservatives could do something like severely undermine the 14th Amendment or overturn cases they do not agree with, such as Roe v. Wade. Such nightmare scenarios would have been unthinkable decades ago. But today they are a real possibility.


    When I brought up the Dred Scott decision, we were in the midst of a Civil War, where terms like doughboy and copperhead were thrown around (I am not trying to suggest we are about to enter another Civil War). We are reaching another extreme though in politics, and it isn't a coicedence that the SC was extremely partisan back then when tensions were flaring and Congress itself was also tearing itself apart along the lines. The SC is supposed to be a non-partisan body, of that we agree. My point was that how could the SC not be expected to be become heavily influenced by partisans when their appointment to duty is completely based on their politics and ruling. It's the flaw of our original plan that did not take into account a two-party system.
    Posted in: Debate
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    posted a message on Supreme Court Justice Nominees Gorsuch and Garland
    Quote from Surging Chaos »
    Quote from Xeruh »
    I don't really agree with what you're saying on RBG


    RBG calling out Trump the way she did was completely wrong. Her comments show that the Supreme Court is now a partisan legislative body, which is not what the court is supposed to be.


    The Supreme Court has been a partisan legislative body since at least the Dred Scott decision (and perhaps even earlier). Do you think it's a coincidence that left leaning justices happened to be appointed by democratic presidents and vice-versa? When Earl Warren was nominated, Eisenhower was hoping for a more conservative judge (which was ironic considering he was a judge in California). The only difference nowadays is that the justices are making the Court more visible, and that was arguably still the fault of the GOP than RBG (If you want to blame anyone for making the SC appear as a partisan legislative body, blame McConnell.

    I agree that the SC should not be home to partisan poltics. It's one and ONLY job is to make sure the Constitution is being followed correctly, and police the President/Congress when they step out of line.
    Posted in: Debate
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Awwww yeah!! Seriously though, the quick lynch of AG had me confused as all heck because it made no sense and was super careless. I seriously considered no killing to support the idea that GJ had not actually been shot, meaning that one of you had "blocked" the other and neither shot, but in the end I went for the simpler play. GJ, would you have caught me out if I'd left you alive?


    Hard to say. I think at first, I would have leaned KJ, but you kept pushing Cops so much, I was starting to get really suspicious.

    I don't envy KJ's spot, and though it was a well played spot.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Why the hell was I being shot >:(
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mafia Championships - Battle of 165 Sites
    I want to nominate tomsloger. I think his game has been really on in the ones both here and on MU, and I feel like of our community, he is the best equipped to handle the much more fast paced format at MU (even with players deciding, it would astonish me if the format was slower than 72/24).
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Supreme Court Justice Nominees Gorsuch and Garland
    Republicans officially pulled the trigger and took the nuclear option. Looks like Gorsuch is going to go the distance.
    Posted in: Debate
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Neverimind. DV could have easily lied from his spot. I thoughthim and KJ came out before I did.

    Shadow might be lock clear then.

    ****, I don't know anymore. Glgl
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Time to mass claim I think.
    Vig, chickened out last night.


    Quote from D_V »
    Vig Shot.

    Waiting on others to claim.
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Rawr growl

    (Vig. Target didn't die so either I got rbed (unlikely because doctor) or I found the one shot bp. Will claim who that is when everyone's here)
    Quote from AtheistGod »
    Bulletproof

    Quote from D_V »
    Vote GJ
    Tried to shoot him last night XD
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    I'm not saying or doing anything until we hear from KJ. DV, I strongly suggest you Unvote, because something screwy is going on.
    Quote from Killjoy »
    RAWR


    (Gentleman Johnny was my target. As claimed earlier, it didn't work.

    But if he's one shot, then both me and DV shot him, he should be dead. So one of DV/me is lying.

    So it has to be DV/AG as the team.

    Actually, wait.

    @Mod: If two people shoot the BP in one night, do both shots fail? Also, would we get notified of roleblocks?)


    Order of operations =/
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Like, if he anticipated the shot target and that the town vigs would also fire there, kudos to him.

    Mod, can you also confirm vigs would be notified if they targeted a different player than their initial target?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I guess DV isn't lock town. But it would surprise me if he was a wolf. And he claimed kill on me first and no one claimed to have shot the doctor.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Rawr

    (I think we have it solved now. Dv is scum'if the mod confirms that you would be dead if two people shoot you, GJ. If not, it's shadow)


    You hammered though with nothing to look at.

    Vig(s): If AG isn't the busdriver, no way in hell you should be shooting.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Like, KJ, you asked a bunch of questions and didn't wait around for the answer in thread. Wtf?

    I am dying tonight anyway so glgl. I would go KJ > Shadow right nao.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    That was a hammer btw.... -_-
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Yeah, DV is pretty much lock town here. Last wolf between KJ and Shadow.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from D_V »
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Rawr

    (I thought you were letting town kill each other and passively getting through D1. So I shot you. On the offchance you were town, I figured you were a good option to have been busdrivered with scum as well. So, win-win there.

    So, Shadow claimed Vig. DV claimed Vig. I claimed Vig.
    Johhny claimed BP. AG claimed BP.

    So yea, AG is the vote here. We just need to figure out which of DV/Shadow is scum. It's probably DV since he couldn't have shot you too.

    Vote AG)

    You forgot about role blocks.

    Shadow claimed to not shoot. That's stupid. Ask Tom if you still have your shot.


    I disagree with that. Tonight would be the bad night to shoot.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    I'm not saying or doing anything until we hear from KJ. DV, I strongly suggest you Unvote, because something screwy is going on.


    It's pretty obvious: AG decided to get out of line and claim bp.

    Why the hell did two people shoot at me? >:(
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I am legitimately curious who you thought you were townier then to pull this off.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Vote AG

    One down.

    Hard counter claim
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I wasn't hammering because this could very possibly be Mlol -_-
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I think Grape > wolf rand. Assuming Grape flips town or roleblocker, little nervous about busdriver shennanigans for the night, but eh.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I legit thought he was hammered and buffered off for a few days.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Maybe we should no lynch and see what happens with some bodies. Doctor can self protect so pretty win win.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    It bothers me that I don't have any solid wolf or town reads right now. A free lens, but nothing but guess work.

    Dv/shadow lean town
    Kj/Grape lean wolf

    Two nulls.

    Fix it
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Quote from AtheistGod »
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Quote from Ophidia »
    Quote from Killjoy »
    Rawr
    (I am of the opinion that no one should claim, and we should operate collectively under the assumption that everyone has the role of 1-Shot Vigilante until such time as that proves untrue. I disagree with Ophidia that we should not shoot barring the death of the Bus Driver role. The Bus Driver has as much chance of pulling his buddy out of the way as he does pushing them into the way of one of our collective shots. Not shooting benefits enemies of the Town more than the Town itself, just as no-lynching early does, I would think.)


    But still there would be 4town vs 2 maf to shoot, which means that it is statistically easier to hit town than scum.
    Rawr growl RAWR

    (Which is a fact which prompted my suggestion that we wait a while before voting to not lynch. Allowing the Vigs to shoot based on behavior is much more reliable than randomly shooting. And even if the Bus Driver swaps a member of the Town with his fellow Mafia member, he can't guarantee that one of the Vigs aren't shooting the Town member he's targeted.

    It's actually for that reason that I am opting to decline to give reads on people Day 1. So that the Mafia doesn't know my intended target (if I am indeed one of those Vigs).

    I intend to sit back, ask some questions, and when enough has happened, end the Day in No-Lynch and shoot (or will I?) my scummiest target (or maybe my Towniest, attempting to outthink the Bus Driver) and we can see who still breathes at the advent of Day 2.)


    What caused you to change your stance on no-lynching so quickly?

    RAWR RAWR *Tim Taylor grunt*

    (I'm not sure what you mean. My position referring to no-lynching hasn't changed in the slightest. I've always been for not lynching, provided we wait a time.

    Also, I'd prefer we not lynch D_V, Grapefruit, Ophidia, or anyone as no lynching is the route we should go today.)


    Why did you specify those three?

    Had a sick run out in my MU game. You have my full attention now
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I get cringy pocket feels right now.

    AG, why do I always want to kill you?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    For those who didn't play in the first, the play was for the miller to claim D1 and have a lock town in our pocket.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I have finished 2 day phases in the time since this game started.

    Like cops, is there a reason the doctor or bulletproof should claim?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    What's all this Hunt talk? He isn't in this game...
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from Ophidia »
    Why are people still randomly shooting?

    You know that you are more likely to kill town than scum at this stage, and Bus Driver will def swap town with scum.

    D_V, explain yourself.


    Well, unless the I was going to shoot at a townie and instead hit a wolf now :p
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I'm going to shoot anyone other than DV because gambler's fallacy.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Unvote, Vote Grapefruit

    In no way was my vote serious. It was however intended to draw out a reaction. Which it did.


    It's not?

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    I can also tell by the lower case letters that tom is astonished my sinister plan might actually go through.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Agreed

    UNVOTE

    Did anyone break the game yet?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS Mafia - Game Over, Shots Fired
    Quote from Killjoy »
    RAWR RAWR growl

    (I believe that if we proceed without a lynch Today it is most likely to benefit enemies of the Town instead of the Town itself. Given this atypically chaotic setup, allowing fate to decide our shot results may be fun, but it's not strategic in the least. I also believe a Vote Gentleman Johnny is in order, as given the language I've seen him use, I do not believe him a gentleman.)


    Not my fault some of you force Mr hand.

    Vote No lynch
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS - signups - FULL
    Quote from tomsloger »
    thats full. role pms and game thread in a couple hours


    Liar.
    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS - signups - FULL
    Busdriver has the two targets target the other's target, right?
    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS - signups - FULL
    Who do we need to complete the party?
    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
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    posted a message on Unreliable SHOTS - signups - FULL
    Outstanding.
    Posted in: Old Sign-ups
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Shadow, knock it off. You aren't getting 9..
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.


    Why Cyan and Hunt?

    Because I think there is likely one scum between them. I thought it was Hunt, but his claim and behaviour recently has given me pause.


    Why do you think it has to be one or the other? I am not understanding why it is a dichotomy.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Not CFDing to terry.

    Full steam ahead on AG, I will go Grape to avoid NL. Not voting Hunt.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Rhand »
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    @Rhand Of course my claim is unprovable, that is just a fact. It's not like a RB or a vig where town can see the evidence. And I'm not saying who I'll cloak ahead of time for obvious reasons. You seem to have a problem with the fact that I like to use a lot of words. This is not the first time you have had a problem with me explaining something in detail.

    Also from reading Overwatch you have a good knowledge of what is permissible in setups for balance. Do you view our abilities as a dichotomy?

    Did you forget you added that you cloak yourself now?
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »

    I am a clubs the cloaker. I have a 1 shot ability that targets me and two others of my choice. It makes us untargetable to all abilities including kills for the night. It's not provable but it's damn powerful.

    It's very easy to prove that. Anyone with a role that targets can test it. On you.

    I don't think you're a dichotomy, no. I've said so in reply to Cyan.


    You are implying the mafia can't pull shenanigans.

    It's an interesting role, but as a 1-shot, it seems really niche on the town side, just going from a game point mechanic.

    Would rather lynch AG over Grape tbh. Hunt I am moving to lean town after his response to claim. Best case, he has good reads and becomes a pain in the ass for the wolves to deal with.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Vote AG

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    Lynching AG gives us more time to sort out Hunt/Cyan because I'm pretty sure there is scum between them. Still leaning Hunt, but that was enough to not eat the noose today.


    Why Cyan and Hunt?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Hunt is acting more like he was in Starcraft than he is in Bur's game or Classic. I am not one to fall on meta too often, but the WIM is real.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    I have a weird feeling about Hunt. I don't think I want to go here today. When he is scum, he tends to be more defeatist at this stage and more aggro when town. Hunt also really showed the WIM on his pressure.

    Unvote Hunt
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    MM,

    How fun.

    Will speed read in a bit.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Two PR claims. One bulletproof, and one proveable unknown. This is pretty much Hunt or Grape at this stage. Do we really want to try another rock and take a risk? I admit, I am hesitating on Hunt a bit as he did the same thing in Starcraft where he slanked all fricken day and then turned it up under pressure where I think in his wolf games, he stays slanky under pressure.

    Ehhhhhh
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    God, all three of my wolf reads are the top wagons?

    Either this game is in ez mode or I ****ed up.

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Rodemy »
    That would be an awful waste of a D1 lynch. We need those sweet, sweet interactions later on and honestly I’m disliking this adovation for lynching below the mod line on D1.


    I think most of the active voices are town, and the posts made by those people have been less than satisfactory. Like, it's not for low content. It's for the content that has been given is < town rand.

    I admit, the Hunt vote on AG does have me a bit baffled. That feels like a very weird spot to distance a buddy.

    Rhands 532 makes me feel pretty safe about him being town.

    I didn't read the full Grape case (didn't click the spoiler) but I liked where it was at, and would feel better if there was at least one active voice in the wolves. Will ISO myself and read Rhands case in more detail likely later today.

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from fulcrum »

    1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.

    2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.

    Vote Huntzilla.

    Inb4 OMGUS

    Hi. Explaining your thought process with more than just the word telling is really helpful for convincing people (including slowpokes who aren't caught up) /and/ helping people read you. It's a win-win.


    My thought process is that I have been pretty vocal about reading most of the active voices as town or town leaning. Kit and one other low postser were also in my town lean town pile, so when Hunt said I was ok with lynching anyone, it felt like a really bad misrep.

    AG is also a wolf read, and I read Hunt's interaction as being weird because hunt wanted to see where that wagon went before he biuddied/distanced.

    I like GJ's response to my question. God damn, where are the scum.

    Someone point out anything scummy.


    Well, who are the town?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Huntzilla »
    Claim time:

    I'm Ham, town bulletproof.

    Feel free to unvote anytime, and move onto AG or Cyan.


    Uh huh.

    I actually believe you.

    I just don't think it makes you town.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    I might do a stream of posts as I catch up and thoughts occur to me:

    Quote from AG »
    Are you voting me for liking Kit's #251 without voting you when you just said you liked Kit's #251 as well? What's the difference between you liking that post and me liking it?


    I obviously don't agree with myself being a wolf. You might or might not, and your post would imply that you do, otherwise you would have made a point to Kit at the time that you agree with the town reads, but not the GJ read.

    Or, you would have agreed with the whole thing, prodded me, or bare minimum, voted me. Instead, you came off as looking like you were trying to keep your options open. Like I said in the original post, the hedge was what bothered me, and the radio silence of your post.

    @KJ: I may have slanked the last few days, but in comparrison, I have been one of the more active players in the game so I resent the lazy comment.

    Quote from shadow »
    Hey, now that all the requisite games are over, I wanted to kind of poke holes in your champs rule. Both of the games I've been scum (Bare Bones and Overwatch) and not followed champs rule at all. I feel like you should maybe scum hunt first, and use it as a support tool instead of leaning on it.


    It's not a hard rule and even if it was, you don't normally push it day 1 (which is why despite my occasional whining, I don't believe I have voted Cythare. Another reason I am more hard into the lurkers as usual is because the more active players I am town reading (which is why I said earlier I was a bit wary I didn't have a deep wolf).

    Member Posts

    Mindreaver 53
    shadowlancerx 50
    Gentleman Johnny 45
    Grapefruit21 39
    TheRealStinkyJoeTerry 36
    Gruffinchops 29
    Rhand 28
    Cyan 25
    Huntzilla 22


    Me being a lazy bastard just quoted the post count. Of the first page, the only wolf read I really have here is Hunt (I was wolf reading Joe earlier, but I felt better and haven't checked back since). I probably just need to start isoing people and see if something sticks, but just for reference, why most of my wolf reads are towards the lower end of the posting pool.



    Just in case you forgot, Hunt Wink

    Avacado's Sub
    Hunt
    AG


    Are the only people I would advocate lynching. MOved Cythare off as his sub is at least doing something. So I don't know where you got that I was ok "lynching anyone."
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Huntzilla »

    GJ just wants to kill whoever. Seriously, read his last couple pages. He's content with anyone dying basically. I'm trying to figure out if it's just lazy or malicious. Other than that, nobody with gravitas is as worried about me.

    As for AG, I have no dog in that fight. Dude is null to me currentlyrics, oohing pinged me either way. Not going to be bullied into an opinion that isn't formed yet.


    1). The fact that you think I am content with anyone dying is pretty clear that you aren't reading my posts.

    2). The fact that you aren't taking a side on AG is pretty telling.

    Vote Huntzilla.

    Inb4 OMGUS
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Grapefruit21 »
    @GJ He's also looking for a replacement for Kit.

    On an off topic question did you manually count posts or is there a way to have mtgs do it for you?

    Any thoughts on Huntz you are willing to share yet?


    If you click on the post number in the thread page, it will show you each user in post count order. It's also the easiest way to ISO someone.
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    We could just lynch him and make life easier for all of us.
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    I'm here, mostly waiting for AG's catchup. I'll also have thoughts on hunt/grape and Terry/Cyan later today.


    I still need to catch up, but today I will. That said, judging by Cyan's comment about you being doctor, I assume you got to claim range. What do you think the alliance rating of players voting you were?
    Alliance rating? Sorry, I don't know what you mean there. Also, I tried to clarify, I'm not a doctor. I did get to claim range, but didn't claim exactly what I am, only that I can prove my alignment tomorrow. I used the word doctor, in an example to explain why I claimed flavor in full, but only softclaimed power.


    Might as well be then. I worded it strangely for some reason. Basically, I am asking you how many wolves do you think were on your wagon?
    Without doing too much math, I'd say 1 or 2, and it also depends if you could AG as on my wagon. Because he's scum for sure, and just refused to actually place a vote. I'd like to go and look at places where the wagon lost steam, and who voted just after that to keep it going.


    mmm.

    Did Proph move the deadline back?
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    posted a message on Disinheritance - Endgame
    Mine are linked it that neat little gif.

    I just can't double wolf anymore and it shows. I feel bad for my team, and tried to take a dive after ISo so WF could get one more shot off.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    I might also just be doing a terrible RP of Spook, even thought that is not my character name.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    I'm here, mostly waiting for AG's catchup. I'll also have thoughts on hunt/grape and Terry/Cyan later today.


    I still need to catch up, but today I will. That said, judging by Cyan's comment about you being doctor, I assume you got to claim range. What do you think the alliance rating of players voting you were?
    Alliance rating? Sorry, I don't know what you mean there. Also, I tried to clarify, I'm not a doctor. I did get to claim range, but didn't claim exactly what I am, only that I can prove my alignment tomorrow. I used the word doctor, in an example to explain why I claimed flavor in full, but only softclaimed power.


    Might as well be then. I worded it strangely for some reason. Basically, I am asking you how many wolves do you think were on your wagon?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    I might do a stream of posts as I catch up and thoughts occur to me:

    Quote from AG »
    Are you voting me for liking Kit's #251 without voting you when you just said you liked Kit's #251 as well? What's the difference between you liking that post and me liking it?


    I obviously don't agree with myself being a wolf. You might or might not, and your post would imply that you do, otherwise you would have made a point to Kit at the time that you agree with the town reads, but not the GJ read.

    Or, you would have agreed with the whole thing, prodded me, or bare minimum, voted me. Instead, you came off as looking like you were trying to keep your options open. Like I said in the original post, the hedge was what bothered me, and the radio silence of your post.

    @KJ: I may have slanked the last few days, but in comparrison, I have been one of the more active players in the game so I resent the lazy comment.

    Quote from shadow »
    Hey, now that all the requisite games are over, I wanted to kind of poke holes in your champs rule. Both of the games I've been scum (Bare Bones and Overwatch) and not followed champs rule at all. I feel like you should maybe scum hunt first, and use it as a support tool instead of leaning on it.


    It's not a hard rule and even if it was, you don't normally push it day 1 (which is why despite my occasional whining, I don't believe I have voted Cythare. Another reason I am more hard into the lurkers as usual is because the more active players I am town reading (which is why I said earlier I was a bit wary I didn't have a deep wolf).

    Member Posts

    Mindreaver 53
    shadowlancerx 50
    Gentleman Johnny 45
    Grapefruit21 39
    TheRealStinkyJoeTerry 36
    Gruffinchops 29
    Rhand 28
    Cyan 25
    Huntzilla 22


    Me being a lazy bastard just quoted the post count. Of the first page, the only wolf read I really have here is Hunt (I was wolf reading Joe earlier, but I felt better and haven't checked back since). I probably just need to start isoing people and see if something sticks, but just for reference, why most of my wolf reads are towards the lower end of the posting pool.

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Mindreaver »
    I'm here, mostly waiting for AG's catchup. I'll also have thoughts on hunt/grape and Terry/Cyan later today.


    I still need to catch up, but today I will. That said, judging by Cyan's comment about you being doctor, I assume you got to claim range. What do you think the alliance rating of players voting you were?
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Popping in. Sorry, my classes have been a bit brutal and I have a test tomorrow I feel woefully unprepared for.

    Little bit I have read, Hunt feels kind of lolsy, Mind feels weird as well, but fence sitting here as well. Cythare was basically my Champ's rule wolf in my group.

    My only issue with my wolf cluster is that I feel like I have no deep wolf. Mindreaver could be that one, but not sure yet. Promise to have more later.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Disinheritance - Endgame
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    @Cyan

    I feel like he is not punching out any original content, playing reactive, and scared of wagon hopping.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from shadowlancerx »
    Also GJ, are you literally null on 5 people and just not listing them?


    Basically. I don't see a reason to lay them as null. I know bur was town on my list and joe was wolf previously and they both moved and I'm not sure what to do about it.
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Not a fan of Grapefruit wagon either. Don't think he has done anything that wolfy, and Shadow's point seems to only really apply if Bur is a wolf too (and it feels like a really weird distance/bus point if they are W/W).

    Quote from AtheistGod »

    I really like #251, moves Kitbits to town in my eyes. Getting a lot more town reads than scum reads so far. Cantrip, Kitbits, Rhand, Shadow all sound town to me.

    @Terry: Why do you think my vote is still on Bur?

    More hedge, and no voting despite the fact a large chunk of Kit's post was a vote and reason for voting me. Vote AtheistGod.

    Top of Brain list

    VV
    GJ
    Kitbits

    V
    Cyan
    Shadow
    Rhand
    Cantripmancer
    Grapefruit
    Mind

    Null Line

    W
    AtheistGod
    Cythare
    Huntzilla
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Holy ****. Things happened.

    AtheistGod not impressing me. His barn vote of 231, and feels really hedgey on Mindreaver. Makes me more in the Mind is town camp. The hard null on Cyan also feels bleh in contrast to the rest of the post, and him not really taking a stance on me either feels really weed waiting.

    Quote from shadow »
    If this is Mind just appeasing the attacker then...well it's kinda working. Hmmm.


    Now that that filthy game is over I can say this: If you are town, you are letting yourself get pocketed too easily. Not saying you are wrong, but something I have noticed of you. I think it makes you more likely town in this game, but work on trying to figure out if wolves are trying to manipulate you. I did it a **** ton in Disinheritance.

    Quote from Cantrip »
    Ok, so I was reading correctly. With that clarified, you do see the disconnect here, don't you? You say that you're aware of your own meta and would try to be more vigilant as a wolf, but also that you are more disconnected when you're a wolf. So if you're disconnected from the game (and I saw that from you early on, pre-garnering suspicion, which would be when you would be potentially less vigilant), then your meta says that you're more likely to be scum.


    Honestly depends on my wolf burn out meter. I like playing wolf and will do it, but suffer greatly if I am wolfing in a 2+ games as well (which for those in Inheritance, is why I started to tank late day 1, day 2.

    @gruffin: Yes. Equity is basically credit or odds. It's an assumption based outlook at the game where you assume town can make wolf posts, and vice-versa. It's all obviously arbitrary, but eh.

    Hate the Gruffin Cyan vote. Even if I wanted to go that route, there are better wolf targets that are both not doing anything AND are wolfy in their few posts.

    Like Cyan's analysis in 249.

    Kit'ss 251 is great except the vote on me which it I find more lolKit than I do wolfy push. Still reading pure.

    Like Joe's 264 on vote count analysis, and curious to see if he can keep pushing. Like it enough that I am going to Unvote.

    Don't like Hunt's posts. He feels super hedgey as well, and just looking for something to jump on without really adding anything on his own.


    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Feeling lazy and busy and games and homework.

    Point is, I will make posts tomorrow.

    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    @Cantrip:

    Nah. I am not really trying to be vigilant. Therefore town. Lock it in.

    (I see what you are saying. You have a point, but I'm still town. I'll prove it later.)

    @Grape

    I currently have bur lean town, but also can't remember anything he had done recently so it's fading.

    Not super impressed with Gruffin right now, but he is doing work so I don't really feel like pursuing further.

    @Cyan: going to poke the bear: where are you at with me?
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Cantrip »
    ...like, I just can't figure out the mindset that is cautious about something like that.


    That's the mindset where I am lazy, but don't want to be seen as lazy.

    Are you aware that being self-conscious can be a scumtell?

    It's never come up in my 4-5 years of playing. -_-

    certainly appreciate you being willing to continue responding and engaging, and your responses haven't been bad, in general. I'll leave you alone for a bit, but you're not off my list. Not by a long shot.

    I should be.

    I feel like I'm misunderstanding you. When you say "touches my town range and is in a pretty wide range of my wolf game", it sounds like you're saying "I'm only rarely disconnected as town, but it's often the case when I'm scum." But then your following lines contradict that, so I must be confused as to what "in my range" means?


    What I am saying is that while I have been disconnected in my town games, it happens more when I am wolf/3rd party. I am obviously aware of my own meta, so I am saying I would consciously try to be vigilant if I were a wolf.

    You're a regular here; you know that games move at a slower pace.

    I pretty much detest the "vig all lurkers because they're lurkers" mentality, but that's in part because I'm sometimes an inadvertent lurker. I don't like lurking in games, but I feel like "oh, lynch/vig the lurk!" is (no offense) lazy coming from town and the path of low hanging fruit for scum.


    Doesn't mean I can't try to throw gasoline everywhere. Vigs should be aimed at either lurkers or counterwagons.

    What games have you been in recently that you've experienced this?

    My mistborn game, few games from MU, and Bur's recent game. All the wolves were pretty much in the low posting pile.

    Why?

    Because as you have experienced, lurkers on other sites are posting 4-5 times in a 36 hour period. We are lucky here to get a post every 48 hours from some people.
    Posted in: Mafia
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    After reading through Mindreaver, I'm not convinced he's scum. This feels to be genuine frustration. I didn't like that Shadow pushed him around so easily regarding his unvote of Gruffin. Not so much anything that Shadow did wrong more so the fact that Mindreaver, was just like, "Ok I'll unvote, if you leave me alone."

    Anyways, to clarify... I feel like overall he reads frustrated town to me, but there were still a couple of marks on his record. I also feel the same way he does about my vote on Gruffin. I wanted to bring attention to something I saw and the best way to do that and have it taken seriously is with a vote. Gruffin is in no danger of being lynched today and my vote on him doesn't really matter until we get closer to the deadline and I need to put my signature on a lynch candidate going into the night.

    Cantrip's posting has me feeling town on him. It's a different tone than it was in our Avalon game.

    I'm going to keep popping in and out checking up on different players today, but I hate post walls and prefer to do snippets at a time.



    You have 3 votes on you, how do you feel?
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    posted a message on Mistborn Mafia - Day 3: Snow and Ash
    Quote from Cantrip »
    So...I tend to see "lynch all lurkers" as a valid strategy only when the thread activity is suffering from a lack of posting by aforementioned lurkers. Why is pursuing the lurkers better than interacting with the players who are posting and giving the lurkers a chance to participate?


    Maybe I am just biased because of the games I have played + hosted, but there seems to be this increasing tendency for 3/4+ of the wolf team to be in the low posters. I don't know if we just have a current player pool that absolutely loathes wolfing, but it shows.


    It's also even more insanely frustrating on this site.
    Posted in: Mafia
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