• posted a message on Ace Attorney Mafia - Night 3 - Fall of the House of Lang
    Read on Iso is lean town. Like, between the two of them, I dunk Rhand and don't look back.

    My issue is Iso has been doing a lot of things that raise eyebrows, but I can't get past his move on jury, as I stated in the paragraph. It makes very little sense from his perspective to extend. There is no way in hell both SC and Iso are scum though. Not with me in the position I was.

    I guess what I am saying is behaviorally, Iso really isn't the town I expect him to be. But from his actions, I can't see his scum perspective from just letting me die.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ace Attorney Mafia - Night 3 - Fall of the House of Lang
    Citric, anything else from me?
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on President -- Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton's -- Presidency Presidential President's Thread
    Quote from gumOnShoe »
    That isn't quite true. Voting third party is only a -1 to Clinton, 0 for Trump (I am making the assumption you would not vote Trump, period). Voting Trump would be a +2 to Trump (since it is also a vote against Clinton).


    This math is pretty close to correct when considering the aggregate differential or "swing" in total power if you consider the main 2 party candidates to be in a competition against each other. It's a different subject, but if you were able to vote for as many candidates (but only once per candidate) as you liked, you could potentially vote anti-trump accross the board and still make your position known. It'd be seriously wacky. Smile


    Fair enough. My math also assumes that the person in question would have considered voting Clinton in the first place. Obviously, for a country basis, that is an almost impossible thing to quantify.

    Unfortunately, going third party in this country often means either handicapping "your side" by stealing votes the candidate you agree with most would have gotten otherwise; or simply abstaining and letting others decide your future.

    When I say I'm voting for Hillary, it's because I really could not stand to be responsible for Trump and I really don't think Hillary will be bad. I don't think she'll be great. She does not represent progress to me, but she's a capable administrator. I don't begrudge anyone their vote. If you want to vote for 3rd party on principle, that's ultimately your decision. But, I'm taking a long view; and the actual result of the election is what matters most. If a 3rd party could organize itself at the local and state level and create the machinery needed to run at the national level that also aligned with my interests it would be more likely to have my support. But, I believe it has to be done in a largely responsible and clearly difficult way.


    I don't begrudge you that point. Regardless of where I fall in November, I can't see myself voting for Trump either. But what candidate has given a concrete way for how their plan is going to work. I have read Clinton's stances on the issues, and while there are definitely parts I agree with, i don't see any more of a strong plan than you seem to be accusing Sanders of lacking. The "morality" issue is still definitely an issue that you don't seem to give enough credit for, especially considering morality is a large amount of reason most people do not stomach Trump.


    To your point about Sander's hatred of the rich: I don't think he hates the rich, I think he realizes that too many have abused a system that has been too heavily handed to them, so much to that point that even people in that bracket want higher taxes. I am not going to pretend Wall Street is the ultimate boogeyman and root of all evil, but I don't feel comfortable with supporting a candidate that has money from them, anymore than I support Trump's endorsement from the KKK.
    Posted in: Debate
  • posted a message on President -- Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton's -- Presidency Presidential President's Thread


    Quote from IMAB »
    "I'm a womanly woman who's entitled to your vote because I'm a woman and anyone who disagree with me might just be a misogynist. Everyone should ignore the failures that I've repeatedly been involved in since I've been in the government because I'm a woman. Also I'm a Clinton. Remember Bill Clinton? Nevermind the fact that I've made it very clear he won't necessarily have a role to play in the White House but I really need to leech off his popularity and also I'm a woman."


    Even if we pretend that is even close to what Clinton would be, how does Trump getting in line with the Republican base not make you realize he is no different than any other candidate? He had no issue going against the party in South Carolina, what's stopping him with sticking to his guns on abortion, even ignoring the fact before 2008, he was pretty pro-choice.

    I don't care about abortion and neither does Trump. How did Trump "get in line" with the Republican base? He's not a religious bigot, he doesn't hate gays, his primary purpose in life isn't to subsidize oil companies, and he cares nothing about preserving party over nation. He went out to the public with a message and people rallied around him. He all but ignored "the base" and dominated in The South where religious and gender bigotry runs rampant among conservatives.



    I don't recall "Hating gays" ever being a platform of the Republican Party. And if Trump didn't care about abortion, why backtrack on his original stance?

    His tax plans, stance on same sex marriage, 0% tax on corporations all fall in line with the Republican platform.
    Posted in: Debate
  • posted a message on President -- Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton's -- Presidency Presidential President's Thread
    Quote from dox »
    Quote from dox »
    If a third party candidate came along with a chance to do something they could have my vote instantly. But I don't see a real contender, so unless one comes out of the woodwork soon they are going to have a hard time gathering enough support to be viable. That said I would vote third party if there was a chance of one winning.

    Why does a third party "have to be a contender"? Why can't you just vote for someone whom you support, or failing that, vote for someone you hate the least even if they're a third party?
    Because of the spoiler effect. If I switch my vote from Clinton to a third party with no chance of winning then I might as well have voted for Trump since that would be the result. Voting for a third party with no chance is the same as wasting your vote and in some cases supporting your opponent.


    That isn't quite true. Voting third party is only a -1 to Clinton, 0 for Trump (I am making the assumption you would not vote Trump, period). Voting Trump would be a +2 to Trump (since it is also a vote against Clinton).

    We already know what we're going to get with Hillary...

    Quote from IMAB »
    "I'm a womanly woman who's entitled to your vote because I'm a woman and anyone who disagree with me might just be a misogynist. Everyone should ignore the failures that I've repeatedly been involved in since I've been in the government because I'm a woman. Also I'm a Clinton. Remember Bill Clinton? Nevermind the fact that I've made it very clear he won't necessarily have a role to play in the White House but I really need to leech off his popularity and also I'm a woman."


    Even if we pretend that is even close to what Clinton would be, how does Trump getting in line with the Republican base not make you realize he is no different than any other candidate? He had no issue going against the party in South Carolina, what's stopping him with sticking to his guns on abortion, even ignoring the fact before 2008, he was pretty pro-choice.
    Posted in: Debate
  • posted a message on President -- Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton's -- Presidency Presidential President's Thread
    Yeah, that's kind of where I am sitting. Voting a third party in this election is likely akin to simply not voting.
    Posted in: Debate
  • posted a message on TWINBORN Mafia Day 2.....A sad day for the Terris people...
    I would like to remind the players that if this were a DnD campaign, this group would likely have been attacked by several groups of angry monsters.

    48 hours is the expectation between posts, short of requests. And remember, have fun. Smile
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ace Attorney Mafia - Night 3 - Fall of the House of Lang
    You lucky bastard.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Ace Attorney Mafia - Night 3 - Fall of the House of Lang
    Well, you have 40 minutes if you want an instant response.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on President -- Hillary Diane Rodham Clinton's -- Presidency Presidential President's Thread
    Quote from dox »
    I am Fine with Clinton as President. I don't fully understand a lot of the criticism around her, most of which seems really weak compared to all of the awful things Trump has done/said and plans to do. She has the most sensible tax plan of the remaining candidates and has a lot of experience in politics in addition to having support from her party needed to actually get legislation out. If the other option is Trump is this really a serious question?


    The democrats have a bigger issue than many seem willing to admit. Just as the RNC at this stage just stone cold drops if they try to nominate someone other than Trump at this stage, I find myself struggling to find support with Clinton. No, she isn't as corrupt or bad as her opponents make her out to be but I still take strong issue with the way the DNC and Clinton ran this election. I don't believe for a second that Clinton was ignorant of what was going on, and there was a lot of shady ***** going on with the campaign, and frankly, I don't like the guilt being thrown at supporters for supporting a corrupt party just because the other party is more corrupt.

    I wouldn't say "Bernie or bust", but just because I find the Republican candidate unpalatable doesn't mean Clinton gets my vote. As unwinnable as a third party member would be, I just might consider it at this stage.
    Posted in: Debate
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