but this thread is mine and it was about "+1 -1 clarifications".
After what i learned here i faced the situation i asked, that's why i posted again here.
So basically the undying dies (forever) cause it happens in the same time of adding the -1 counters.
In other words he dies before the +1 counters die.
UP!
I was discussing with friends.
After this thread i ended up in thinking that an undying creature (already "returned" from graveyard) is immortal against a wither attack cause that attack should leave the undying creature with "no counters" and so it will return again and again.
They said that the undying dies.
After reading the rules in this thread about counters i'm sure they are wrong, but i'm gonna ask here again..
too slow, but so lovely! Anyway i think you are right, the best "haste" option isn't the dragon but lashwrite.
If i have a clean attack with an infect creature and 4+ lands to play that equipment that lashwrite can grant an instawin (or leave the enemy at few counters to death). I'm gonna work out something around it.
Thanks, i know that tribal options and the last one it's like a devotion budget but didn't know the aggro vehicles one, don't know how good it is but at least it's something.
If anyone else knows other decks/archetypes monoblack i would be happy to read em.
i totally agree but still, what decks can be played apart of the ones i said?
Of course i don't expect the same competitivity but still there must be something "playable" or is it really "that or change color"?
I want to build a monoblack deck but besides the options i know i don't know other viable decks.
-there is of course the black devotion deck in all its variants...but basically the deck is creatures with high devotions, some discards/destructions to control and the gray merchant
-there is the deck "8rack" or other similar decks with basically no creatures and they aim to leave nothing in hand or board and win by damage turn by turn.
- there are some tribes deck like vampires, zombies or rats
- there is the deck i probably love more: Haakon knights (it's not a tribe deck as there aren't only knights and the key to win is not lord buffs but there are good combos to create or to disrupt)
Is it all? The viable monoblack decks are restricted to variants of "blackdevotion" or "nocreatures, destroyeverything" or "some tribals"?
I'm wondering if there are other options for a monoblack with some funny combos (like haakon knights).
Do you know some?
Let's talk about BLUE-BLACK Ninjas enablers (i don't mind other colors, i like em blue and black): who are the best nowadays? (to put together with the awesome ornithtopter that comes back in game the same turn after a ninjutsu cause ZERO mana)
I can't really decide cause we have some options:
-the faerie pack, so the faerie miscreant and the spellstrutter sprite. It just works, They can counter, but it is not so frequent as it seems. It's a semi-trap, you think you can counter the world with them but they woun't. Still some good counters CAN happen. OPTIONS=GOOD!
Besides the added value of the possibility of countering something they just suck, 1/1 with flying means they CAN be blocked and they die to everything.
- Amonkhet gave us the 1mana slither blade that has 2 thoughness and so doesn't die to everything, and as an enabler he is better than every fliers: he can't be blocked. But if we play him we should drop not only the one mana faerie but also the 2mana faerie cause she'd make sense no more.
So as 2mana in substitution of the 2mana faerie i think i would say the dimir infiltrator that has the same effect
The best two mana slot isn't the dimir, but the nether traitor. Cause he will come back, but two black mana is risky.
If a creature is say 4/4 and gets in some way 4 +1/+1 counters but then it gets a -1/-1 counter...that creatures in the end has 4 +counters and 1 -counter or he just has 3 +counters?
The situation i faced was crumbling ashes in one side, in the opponent side a devour dragon that entered with 4 +counters but then he took a wither damage.
So, can he be destroyed cause he has a -1 counter or he just lives cause the -1 counter doesn't exist due to the fact that he remains a 4/4 with +3+3?
Wow thanks.
So the player with the turn puts first in stack the things that happen at same time.
The resolving order is from the last in the stack to the first.
So, isn't the liliana's token zombie a legal target for mistblade (that gets destroyed by returning in hand)?
While i was playtesting two decks of mine alone i went into a situation i couldn't resolve.
In the ninja side there was a Mistblade shinobi and a 2/2 creature with sword of fire and ice.
In the other side there was a Liliana, Heretical Healer and two 2/2.
The ninja deck was in attack and the situation was that i wanted mistblade to return in hand liliana.
Of course mistblade was unblockable that turn thanks to a spell.
At the same time i wanted to attack also with my 2/2 with the sword (so a 4/4 that do stuff if unblocked) cause i had big benefits if unblocked but also a 2 for 1 trade was good for the ninjas.
That's where i stopped.
If the 2 2/2 block the equipped 4/4 to kill him they die at the same time that mistblade deals damage to the opponent.
So Mistblade can return liliana in hand or liliana exiles herself and return as a planeswalker?
ye, that one is good but the 2mana slot in my deck is already full.
I would drop the wall, but then i would have to add something to cycle a bit and white/red sucks in that.
Surely i would counter some decks, but it would worst against all others.
The more i look my decklist the more i think it is well created, surely it can better but if i want to keep the theme i see little chance of improvement.
Collected company seems good. I probably have to find a way to cheat samurai on the board and outnumber the enmy fast.
I'm not giving up yet.
As you already put in evidence, the point was keeping the samurai theme and not just "put the best samurai card in a deck".
I'm so unhappy that they wasted this tribe.
Problem is that there is no draw engine and you will never extend your board cause of that. Also you will never get "samurai buffs" cause when the legendary that buffs enters probably they will be alone, cause this tribe has no source of control, and while you summon your samurai that outside combat do nothing the enemy can build his strategy in the easiest way.
Best tribe as lore, worst tribe as gameplay.
After what i learned here i faced the situation i asked, that's why i posted again here.
So basically the undying dies (forever) cause it happens in the same time of adding the -1 counters.
In other words he dies before the +1 counters die.
I was discussing with friends.
After this thread i ended up in thinking that an undying creature (already "returned" from graveyard) is immortal against a wither attack cause that attack should leave the undying creature with "no counters" and so it will return again and again.
They said that the undying dies.
After reading the rules in this thread about counters i'm sure they are wrong, but i'm gonna ask here again..
If i have a clean attack with an infect creature and 4+ lands to play that equipment that lashwrite can grant an instawin (or leave the enemy at few counters to death). I'm gonna work out something around it.
-4 sign in blood
-1 inquisition of kozilek
-1 liliana of the veil
+3 phyrexian arena
+1 swamp
+2 4hasteinfectdamage Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
i'm always open to other decks suggestion, i'm happy, but not done!
If anyone else knows other decks/archetypes monoblack i would be happy to read em.
Of course i don't expect the same competitivity but still there must be something "playable" or is it really "that or change color"?
-there is of course the black devotion deck in all its variants...but basically the deck is creatures with high devotions, some discards/destructions to control and the gray merchant
-there is the deck "8rack" or other similar decks with basically no creatures and they aim to leave nothing in hand or board and win by damage turn by turn.
- there are some tribes deck like vampires, zombies or rats
- there is the deck i probably love more: Haakon knights (it's not a tribe deck as there aren't only knights and the key to win is not lord buffs but there are good combos to create or to disrupt)
Is it all? The viable monoblack decks are restricted to variants of "blackdevotion" or "nocreatures, destroyeverything" or "some tribals"?
I'm wondering if there are other options for a monoblack with some funny combos (like haakon knights).
Do you know some?
I can't really decide cause we have some options:
-the faerie pack, so the faerie miscreant and the spellstrutter sprite. It just works, They can counter, but it is not so frequent as it seems. It's a semi-trap, you think you can counter the world with them but they woun't. Still some good counters CAN happen. OPTIONS=GOOD!
Besides the added value of the possibility of countering something they just suck, 1/1 with flying means they CAN be blocked and they die to everything.
- Amonkhet gave us the 1mana slither blade that has 2 thoughness and so doesn't die to everything, and as an enabler he is better than every fliers: he can't be blocked. But if we play him we should drop not only the one mana faerie but also the 2mana faerie cause she'd make sense no more.
So as 2mana in substitution of the 2mana faerie i think i would say the dimir infiltrator that has the same effect
The best two mana slot isn't the dimir, but the nether traitor. Cause he will come back, but two black mana is risky.
- something else i don't know, you can suggest!
The situation i faced was crumbling ashes in one side, in the opponent side a devour dragon that entered with 4 +counters but then he took a wither damage.
So, can he be destroyed cause he has a -1 counter or he just lives cause the -1 counter doesn't exist due to the fact that he remains a 4/4 with +3+3?
Hope i explained well
So the player with the turn puts first in stack the things that happen at same time.
The resolving order is from the last in the stack to the first.
So, isn't the liliana's token zombie a legal target for mistblade (that gets destroyed by returning in hand)?
In the ninja side there was a Mistblade shinobi and a 2/2 creature with sword of fire and ice.
In the other side there was a Liliana, Heretical Healer and two 2/2.
The ninja deck was in attack and the situation was that i wanted mistblade to return in hand liliana.
Of course mistblade was unblockable that turn thanks to a spell.
At the same time i wanted to attack also with my 2/2 with the sword (so a 4/4 that do stuff if unblocked) cause i had big benefits if unblocked but also a 2 for 1 trade was good for the ninjas.
That's where i stopped.
If the 2 2/2 block the equipped 4/4 to kill him they die at the same time that mistblade deals damage to the opponent.
So Mistblade can return liliana in hand or liliana exiles herself and return as a planeswalker?
I would drop the wall, but then i would have to add something to cycle a bit and white/red sucks in that.
Surely i would counter some decks, but it would worst against all others.
The more i look my decklist the more i think it is well created, surely it can better but if i want to keep the theme i see little chance of improvement.
Collected company seems good. I probably have to find a way to cheat samurai on the board and outnumber the enmy fast.
I'm not giving up yet.
I'm so unhappy that they wasted this tribe.
Problem is that there is no draw engine and you will never extend your board cause of that. Also you will never get "samurai buffs" cause when the legendary that buffs enters probably they will be alone, cause this tribe has no source of control, and while you summon your samurai that outside combat do nothing the enemy can build his strategy in the easiest way.
Best tribe as lore, worst tribe as gameplay.