Have only read a few pages of this thread and noticed alot of people bringing up cards like epic experiment and cascade in general with melek, sorry to put a bummer on things but those all exile the cards before casting them so wont be copied with melek, I'm actually not sure what other ways you can get his copy to work other than his own abilities, the only other cards I can think of deal with cards from your library being cast are oracle of mul daya (melek doesnt interact with this), future sight (again any instants and sorc's you could play with this you could play with just melek), and panglacial wurm which ofc is just a creature.
seems pretty obvious that his abilities would be Alpha Authority hexproof since hes magic immune and cannot be blocked by only one creature since hes two headed, hopefully he has something else to spice it up or is just straight up aggressively costed if he was a 4/4 for 2RG thatd be pretty damn sick, especially if they print another playable bloodrush card to go with ghor-clan rampager to safely punish people for double blocking him in attempts to trade
If you ask "triggers?" before you declare blockers your opponent has to announce any at that point or forfeit their trigger.
Annoying to have to say "triggers?" but it's the one sure fire way to clear the air of any lingering triggers.
But the whole point of these missed trigger policies is to make it possible for your opponent to miss trigger's and to not make you remind your opponent of their trigger's. Goodluck asking "triggers?" and have it not remind your opponent.
I'm a person who always remembers my triggers because they always benefit me and I never want to miss out or lose a game because I forgot Hellrider or Pyreheart. However, it is now advantageous for me to "miss" Pyreheart on an empty board in hopes my opponent flashes Resto angel in so I can say "Uhhhh, nope..but thanks for wasting your Resto angel". That's kind of dumb. Hell, there may even be situations in which he has one blocker, 4 mana open and I'm hoping for the Angel flash. I don't like the rules pushing me towards looking stupid for my advantage.
Second problem I see is exalted trigger. I'm swinging in with my creature and KoI is on the field. My opponent has Boros Reckoner on the field. I can wait to see what he does and whether he blocks with Reckoner or not. If he does and I don't want to take extra damage, I can say "attack for 2" and I just miss my exalted trigger and that's okay. Otherwise, say he doesn't block, I can say hits for 3 and that's okay.
Better use Knight of Glory for that example since reckoner cant block infamy but yes I agree with your sentiment also. This new method of dealing with pyreheart still incentivises gotcha moments but now its the person who wasnt responsible for the trigger who gets got. At least last time round if you forgot your trigger it was you who missed out.
As a judge, if a player at any point after swinging with a lone creature gives information about it's P/T, I'm going to hold them to that information unless its outright impossible to obtain (ie 1/1 Qasali) I might not like certain aspects of the policy, but I am DAMN sure we aren't supposed to allow bait-and-switch tactics like this. As an outside observer it seems incredibly obvious to me that the opponent is asking about the PT in order to inform their strategic decisions during combat. I expect the attacker to give a straight answer to the question they should know their opponent intended to ask. Deliberately trying to create ambiguities in communication for your advantage is unsporting conduct at best, a DQ for fraud at worst. Don't do, please.
@Nof's previous question:Thing is, when the opponent swings Qasali into my 2/3, I let it through assuming it's a 3/3, and they announce 2 damage...I'm going to be annoyed and feel kind of stupid. Even though the opponent forgot the trigger, they still got the +1/+1 all the way up to the combat damage step, and this DID have an impact on the game state and my decision-making. Which is why I say these triggers are back to being unmissable to a degree; you always get part of their effect "for free". Instead of having some weird partial situation like this, I'd rather just say they're either completely unmissable, or have to be announced right away as before.
I wholeheartedly echo your opinion. Could all of these horrible sharking stories been avoided if we just gave out the unsporting conduct penalty more often?
No, because damage is the first time that the trigger would have a physical effect on something, so as long as you acknowledge it come damage, you have not missed it.
I really don't like this at all if what you say is true. This actually gives the controller of the trigger the chance to shark you. If they attack with their qasali pridemage and you say "Move to blocks? oh and how big is that guy?" and your opponent says 2/2 then you try to trade with your 2/2, going by what you said your opponent can say "Hah! exalted *****".
The way I see it sure if no clarifications are made then you have until damage is put on the stack to remember your trigger (although personally I liked the old system where you were forced to communicate your triggers as there is no possibility of getting 'tricked' that way(ofc wizards could of just kept printing may triggers and all of this could of been avoided, I mean really would any competitive player complain if your pyreheart wolf had a may trigger and when you didn't announce it your opponent could assume you hadn't chosen to use it and they could block?)). But in the example you responded to there has been a clarification and if at that point you have forgotten your opponent should be able to make decisions with the certainty that they know what size your dude actually is.
Yeh that's an interesting question arska, the way tobi explains in his blog point to the opponent knowing the outcomes of their actions which moving to block in your scenario after your opponent doesnt declare their trigger the opponent doesn't know the outcome.
Sorry tenzoku, I and several others have made this exact point but the posters in this thread are not at all concerned with it. I have not heard a single valid critique of this product that is not "I want one and cannot get one without paying more than I want to."
The fact that this will not change any format (ie no one will NEED these cards to be competitive) seems completely lost in the logic of this thread.
People keep talking about "the spirit of a casual format" or "scummy secondary sellers" and "wizards trying to make moneyzz!!1!" but none of them can get around the fact that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG WITH THE PRODUCT.
It is merely a small release of high quality reprints with new art and foiling.
The fact that people are down to complaining that "the word arsenal makes it sound like it should be for everyone blah blah blah" just shows you how, frankly, absurd the complaints are.
Once again, this release doesn't take away anything from anyone, nor will it put a competative or interesting deck out of your reach. It is merely a last minute idea that puts out a product that some people will be willing to pay for. Do you complain if a car company known for inexpensive cars decides to make a luxury vehicle out of your price range?
The reason I suspect so many are annoyed is not that they feel they are required to buy one, but because there is no understandable reason for why wizards chose to make this so limited. Your saying people can just buy the non foils, they don't need to buy it. However the the same is true for wizards position, they didn't need to make it such limited print run.
If they had used the FTV print standards who would be worse off? more product would sell meaning more money would be made by everyone, shops wouldn't need to gouge as much since they would make their profit on more items, wizards would obviously sell more product to these retailers and more people would receive the product they want for a price closer to the recommended retail price. Who misses out? just the few ultra collectors that want more expensive things to own.
pro-tip: if the purpose of collecting is just to have the most expensive items and you'd rather the same item be worth more just so you can pay more for it and own something that's worth more just collect cars please.
To be completely honest I don't think anyone owes anything to these collector's, they are the ones killing formats and what does the community gain from them? someone to sell your cards to when the format they could be used in dies and you have to stop playing it. Gee thanks.
Is anyone actually pleased that this is more limited than FTV?
Isn't it illegal to re-arrange your deck when searching? I've seen the scenario of tapping a Deranged Assistant to pay for a Panglacial Wurm brought up before.
Holy **** this is mindblowing.
7/15/2006: While searching your library, you must keep your library in the same order until you shuffle it. This order could matter if you tap Millikin for mana, for example, to pay for a Panglacial Wurm you cast from your library.
This is on magiccards.info for panglacial wurm.. god what a horrid card panglacial wurm is for screwing with the rules like this.
Not defending him because it definately looked like he was cheating given the way he shuffled leaving the card he wants on the bottom then making sure that bottom ends up roughly in the middle of the deck. However I wouldnt judge him guilty soley on him searching for the champion. Infact its a tactic I would sugest alot of people do if you dont know your deck through and through.
If you are able to look through your deck when you're in a bad spot its well worth making mental notes of the cards that could possibly save you and then figuring out what steps you need to make to ensure they will.
Note this is completely unrelated to then Cheating to increase the likelyhood of you drawing said cards.
I dont like how this will lead to people countering spells they didnt know were uncounterable let alone confusion when out of order sequencing leads to one person playing two creatures at once and the opponent having to ask which one is the cavern being used for and then the opponent taking back whatever creature he deems to be the least worthy and just playing the one? seems this leads to far more problems of rules sharking than catering for someone not willing/too lazy/too forgetful to clarify that their spell is uncounterable.
I make a point of not listening to Chapin, he's a blowhard and often way off base from his personal biases or deceptive in attempts at market manipulation leveraging his clout. If you're trying to dial in the relative strength of certain cards or archetypes he's not the guy I would look to.
funny thing is thats where this card will probably win more than it's fair share of events.
God am I sick of hearing people bring up past indiscretions of chapins as a reason to look down on him as a magic player. While im not saying selling E is fine its clear that it is a designer drug and the vast majority of people who take it do so as a choice. Rather than being crack whore junkies.
Even so what the hell does that have to do with vexing devil? the cards not good it doesnt help you get blood thirst on your stormblood berserkers it gets chumped all day by lingering souls it doesnt have evasion like stromkirk even if they do let it live on turn 1. Against non whipflare/slagstorm decks a goblin fireslinger is often going to get in for as much damage while enabling bloodthirst and is eventually going to require a removal spell and it isnt even played.
But even if all this were wrong and the card was outstanding it is ONLY outstanding in RDW. In the modern mythic rare era how many rares have maintained a 15$ price tag? Only legacy staples have (think stoneforge mystic snapcaster mage noble hierarch knight of reliquary). These creatures define that format and defined the standard formats they were in. In what world is a 4 dmg lava spike going to do that?
For reference Koth of the hammer is an equally narrow application card at mythic rare in a big set and is only 8$
It seems like alot of people don't feel weird about matingon testing with the set so far ahead of time of everyone else.. Two of the top 100 players in the world testing a brand new set 2 months(it was that right) before anyone else gets to see the set is a huge headstart. Especiallly when Pro Tours now line up with set releases meaning they could have not just like 20% extra time head start but more like twice as much preparation. Personally I think its a joke that wafo tapa gets a longer ban than the guy who broke his NDA.
And works with green sun's zenith and chord of calling, cards often played in glimpse style decks
But the whole point of these missed trigger policies is to make it possible for your opponent to miss trigger's and to not make you remind your opponent of their trigger's. Goodluck asking "triggers?" and have it not remind your opponent.
Better use Knight of Glory for that example since reckoner cant block infamy
I wholeheartedly echo your opinion. Could all of these horrible sharking stories been avoided if we just gave out the unsporting conduct penalty more often?
I really don't like this at all if what you say is true. This actually gives the controller of the trigger the chance to shark you. If they attack with their qasali pridemage and you say "Move to blocks? oh and how big is that guy?" and your opponent says 2/2 then you try to trade with your 2/2, going by what you said your opponent can say "Hah! exalted *****".
The way I see it sure if no clarifications are made then you have until damage is put on the stack to remember your trigger (although personally I liked the old system where you were forced to communicate your triggers as there is no possibility of getting 'tricked' that way(ofc wizards could of just kept printing may triggers and all of this could of been avoided, I mean really would any competitive player complain if your pyreheart wolf had a may trigger and when you didn't announce it your opponent could assume you hadn't chosen to use it and they could block?)). But in the example you responded to there has been a clarification and if at that point you have forgotten your opponent should be able to make decisions with the certainty that they know what size your dude actually is.
The reason I suspect so many are annoyed is not that they feel they are required to buy one, but because there is no understandable reason for why wizards chose to make this so limited. Your saying people can just buy the non foils, they don't need to buy it. However the the same is true for wizards position, they didn't need to make it such limited print run.
If they had used the FTV print standards who would be worse off? more product would sell meaning more money would be made by everyone, shops wouldn't need to gouge as much since they would make their profit on more items, wizards would obviously sell more product to these retailers and more people would receive the product they want for a price closer to the recommended retail price. Who misses out? just the few ultra collectors that want more expensive things to own.
pro-tip: if the purpose of collecting is just to have the most expensive items and you'd rather the same item be worth more just so you can pay more for it and own something that's worth more just collect cars please.
To be completely honest I don't think anyone owes anything to these collector's, they are the ones killing formats and what does the community gain from them? someone to sell your cards to when the format they could be used in dies and you have to stop playing it. Gee thanks.
Is anyone actually pleased that this is more limited than FTV?
Holy **** this is mindblowing.
7/15/2006: While searching your library, you must keep your library in the same order until you shuffle it. This order could matter if you tap Millikin for mana, for example, to pay for a Panglacial Wurm you cast from your library.
This is on magiccards.info for panglacial wurm.. god what a horrid card panglacial wurm is for screwing with the rules like this.
If you are able to look through your deck when you're in a bad spot its well worth making mental notes of the cards that could possibly save you and then figuring out what steps you need to make to ensure they will.
Note this is completely unrelated to then Cheating to increase the likelyhood of you drawing said cards.
God am I sick of hearing people bring up past indiscretions of chapins as a reason to look down on him as a magic player. While im not saying selling E is fine its clear that it is a designer drug and the vast majority of people who take it do so as a choice. Rather than being crack whore junkies.
Even so what the hell does that have to do with vexing devil? the cards not good it doesnt help you get blood thirst on your stormblood berserkers it gets chumped all day by lingering souls it doesnt have evasion like stromkirk even if they do let it live on turn 1. Against non whipflare/slagstorm decks a goblin fireslinger is often going to get in for as much damage while enabling bloodthirst and is eventually going to require a removal spell and it isnt even played.
But even if all this were wrong and the card was outstanding it is ONLY outstanding in RDW. In the modern mythic rare era how many rares have maintained a 15$ price tag? Only legacy staples have (think stoneforge mystic snapcaster mage noble hierarch knight of reliquary). These creatures define that format and defined the standard formats they were in. In what world is a 4 dmg lava spike going to do that?
For reference Koth of the hammer is an equally narrow application card at mythic rare in a big set and is only 8$