Attending a 150ppl modern tournament this weekend with Stickballruss' Decklist - and thinking bout some sideboard slots.
For which matchups the Damping Matrix is needed? I can't remember any game where it would have helped me :'D
Beside that im quite unsure bout the 3xEidolon of the Great Revel - when they come in? Only to fight Storm/Fenix?
Damping matrix is great against affinity, Dominate against devoted druid and eldrazi tron, and good against tron and spirits.
Eidolon comes in when we are on the aggro plan. it's a low cc creature that punishes the opponent just for playing spells. It usually gets killed immediately, but in the rare circumstances when it doesn't, it takes over a game. also, when it dies, it does do 2 damage. Over the course of a game, that adds up. especially vs deaths shadow when all we really need to do is 4-6 damage to win those games.
I was all aboard on Avarcious Dragon, but every time I play it, it gets killed before I get any value. Anyone else having this problem. terminate, path, aether vial in a reflector mage with the discard trigger on the stack, lily down tick.....I think I've cast it 8 times and only one did it do it's job. all the other times, it died. Almost going back to P&K and Koth....someone talk me off the ledge.
I think I read that Raystack has a bridgeless version? Any chance Ray or someone could post it for me? I'm working on a brew which is a mix of Pyro Prison and Skred Dragons. Thanks In advance!
That was me and I haven't put it together yet. I'm also working on some super secret tech that was me tioned at the very beginning of this forum......rift bolt. Stay tuned....
1. Stock list again with minor changes to the sideboard? Chainwhirler out, Magus of the Moon in.
2. Stock list with 4 Molten Rain in the board? Better vs Tron/Jund. Looking at removing Chainwhirler, Boil, Spellskite, and a shattering spree.
3. Updated Stock list with dragons....taking out 2 ballista, Koth, P&K. Putting in Sarkhan #3 and 3 Glorybringer?
4. Bridgless Dragons combining Skred Dragons with Pyro Prison. Don't have a list for this, but we can create it on the fly on stream. You'll get to hear my thoughts as I build a deck.
Matt really loves that esper list. You playing at Comic Book Store? I'm fairly certain I know you now. I would have been there on Pyro as well today but had to work How's Top 8 going?
Nah, family stuff today, but yes, sometimes I play at the comic book store. Who is this? Would love to be able to tag team events with a fellow pyro player. I'm usually at gamers vault in Medford on Thursdays.
Ray, we may ve putting up the wins, but you continue to impress with your unique decks, performance, and your behind the scenes work. Well done with your work on mtg top 8. Maybe SCG will follow suit.
Long time reader, first time poster. Love the deck!
I have a question. Post board do you think our artifacts need more protection? Artifact/enchantment removal is in most sideboards in modern and getting a bridge removed, or another artifact, can just be game for the opponent against me.
Do you think either Spellskite, Welding jar, Buried Ruin or amy other cards could help the deck be more resistant to removal?
Thanks in advance.
I almost always bring in a spellskite for this exact reason. it's also stops ravager's modular ability, EVERYTHING from bogles and infect, and can absorn both parts of K-command. It also makes bolts, helixes, right bolts, o-ring, d-sphere, laughably bad. of those you mentioned, skite is the one you want. I run one in the board.
So, this deck had an 80% win rate BEFORE I entered the fray? Crap, and I thought I was just that good!
Ray, that was amazing. During my undefeated run in Philly earlier this year, EXACT SAME THING happened. Opponent gained infinite life with the same cast of characters you mentioned and I ultimated koth the following turn. I killed EVERYTHING and we played draw go for the rest of the round until time expired and we drew. I had 8 more cards than my opponent. If there was 5 more minutes on the clock, I would have decked her, 100%
Pyro Prison....Ray named this deck, so I'll let him be the official word on why it's called that. Here's my opinion, but if Ray chimes in and says something different, then that's the reason. he is the Godfather after all!
So, Mono-Red Prison implies that we are a prison deck. We are NOT a prison deck. Yes, there are some games that we win using prison-like elements, but at our core, we are a perfect blend of aggro/control. the PYRO part in Pyro Prison implies our aggro nature. When we need to be, we abandon ship on the prison elements and turn into a full blown aggro deck using some prison-like cards to offer unique interactions. These are the decks where we side out prison cards like bridge. Examples are control, Big Tron, and Combo.
Vs other decks, we're a control deck, going all in on the "prison" strategy and leave the aggro at home. Vs these, we side out the aggro elements like rabblemaster in favor of more prison/interaction. Examples of this are bogles, humans, hollow-one, and affinity.
If you had to rate our deck on a scale of 1-10 in categories of Aggro and Control, We're probably a 5/10 on the aggro plan and a 5/10 on the control plan. In game two, depending on the match, we can dial up on one and down on the other. for example, UWx control will ALWAYS be a more controlling deck than ours, so we have to assume the aggro role there, embracing the "PYRO" part of our deck. Post board games, we tend to dial up the aggro to a 7-8 while dialing back the control to a 2-3. Vs affinity, we do the opposite. Here, we embrace the "PRISON" part of our deck and dial back the aggro to a 2-3 and dial up the control to a 7-8.
It is for these reasons above why we do not play white. White embraces the control role too much and doesn't have a good aggro plan. sure, vs decks where you want to be the control player, it's MUCH better, but vs decks where you need to assume the aggro role, it's MUCH worse because it doesn't have an aggro role. In those games, you are just playing a worse control deck than the opponent and will lose the vast majority of those matches.
It's also for these reasons that playing this deck will make you a "better magic player" (Trademark FluffyWolf). To get good at this deck, you have to understand bigger magic concepts than just....oh, this card is good here, i'm gonna bring it in. You need to understand "who's the beat down" ans assess how your STRATEGY aligns with the current match. This is why you see so many people winning events, 5-0 MTGO leagues, and just doing well with SO MANY DIFFERENT versions of the deck. Everyone who put up results with this deck has done it in their own way because they all understood that it's not about the cards....it's about understanding your specific strategy and playing accordingly. I made a LOT of play errors when I made Top 4 of the Open in December, but my strategy for each match was sound and, despite not playing optimally, i was able to win.
I know i went off on a really long tangent here, so back to the original question....why Pyro Prison? Because there are two halfs to this deck and depending on the match will depend on which side of the name you will embrace.
How’s your experience vs Hollow One, Vengevine and KCI?
Was really considering sprinkling in some Red/White Buddy Lands and adding Rest In Peace and Stony Silence to my SB, just to test out at a FNM or something.
Game 1, i don’t think this land base affects what we’re tryibg to do, but it’d be flexible for some white side board cards.
Oh no, please don't add white. there's a reason why the people of this forum will never refer to this deck as Mono-red Prison, and instead call it PYRO Prison. When you go white, you are resigning yourself to locking out your opponent and that doesn't work vs half the meta. Sure, vs humans and Bogles, it feels great, but vs control and tron, you'll just die.
Now, onto strategy, Hollow-one/Vengevine. We'll tackle them together because they are the same deck. Game one, the strategy is to get a chalice on One ASAP, followed by a bridge. Bridge should be enough to win the game if you can deply it at a high enough life total. During game one, I am always managing my life total because once you land bridge, they have 4 bolts and 2 collective brutality to finish the job. Typically, if you are over ten life, you got it. If you have a chalice down on one, then you definetly got it. Don't be afraid to use rabblemaster as a removal spell by attacking into unfavorable blocks. remember, game one goal is to get bridge down with 10+ life. there will be a rare occasion where a rabblemaster goes the distance, but that is rare.
Game two.....much different. Here you need bridge and a chalice on TWO. Two stops ancient grudge. If your hand is bridge and a chalice and you run that chalice on one followed by a bridge, you will lose that game, guaranteed. It was through a lot of experience and dicipline that I've learned to wait for the chalice on two. Trust me on this. in post board games, chalice on two, even if you don't have a bridge done, it where you need to be. My strategy is as follows:
Here's the rationale....They are much better at jamming up the board than we are, so Rabblemasters need to come out. Next, Blood moon only serves one purpose here, shutting them off from flashing back ancient grudge. With so much random discard, sometimes a blood moon acts like a chalice on two. Moon has a use, but not something you need a full set of. Three is plenty. You don't want to see more than one, and there are a lof of games where you don't even want that. the ritual comes out in matches where you don't need to power out a fast lock piece to win. This is more of a grindy match and no matter what you play on turn 1/2, this game won't be over in your favor. Hollow One can unload on you and end the game really quick, but we cannot lock them out with the same speed. In matched like this, jund, mardu pyromancr, and skred red, when we're not trying for the super fast lock and the games become more grindy, take out a ritual.
So, what comes in? The cage and anger are obvious. Spellskite can eat all the bolts and also eat a flashbacked ancient grudge. Plus, one spellskite in play can negate one bloodghast. Only one shattering spree. hollow-one is their only artifact and we want one more way to deal with it, so only one comes in. That leaves us with two abrade, one spree, and a chandra minus to deal with the 4/4, plenty of ptions.
KCI is w whole different animal. you need TWO lock pieces to win, with EE bing the card you need to stop. If you think jamming an eidolon is enough, then you are very inexperienced in this match. Chalice on one and a way to stop EE is a hard lock. Eidolon Plus damping matrix is also good. If you play spyglass, and you should, that needs to name EE always. EE is the card that wrecks face in this match and it's the card you need to stop. Don't try to get cute and attack the graveyard, the lock pieces we have are enough. In my deck, how do we sideboard?
Don't think you'll be able to use anger here either. You won't. Max pressure plus disruption. Turn one rabblemaster followed by lock piece (eidolon, spyglass, etc...) should swing the game wildly in your favor. also try to end the game quickly, meaning if I'm looking at a turn one rabblemaster or chandra, it's rabblemaster. if the sideboard cards show up, this is an easy win. If not, then it's a LOT harder. remember, you'll need at least two lock pieces to stop this deck, and even then, it sometimes not enough.
1
Damping matrix is great against affinity, Dominate against devoted druid and eldrazi tron, and good against tron and spirits.
Eidolon comes in when we are on the aggro plan. it's a low cc creature that punishes the opponent just for playing spells. It usually gets killed immediately, but in the rare circumstances when it doesn't, it takes over a game. also, when it dies, it does do 2 damage. Over the course of a game, that adds up. especially vs deaths shadow when all we really need to do is 4-6 damage to win those games.
1
1
That was me and I haven't put it together yet. I'm also working on some super secret tech that was me tioned at the very beginning of this forum......rift bolt. Stay tuned....
1
1. Stock list again with minor changes to the sideboard? Chainwhirler out, Magus of the Moon in.
2. Stock list with 4 Molten Rain in the board? Better vs Tron/Jund. Looking at removing Chainwhirler, Boil, Spellskite, and a shattering spree.
3. Updated Stock list with dragons....taking out 2 ballista, Koth, P&K. Putting in Sarkhan #3 and 3 Glorybringer?
4. Bridgless Dragons combining Skred Dragons with Pyro Prison. Don't have a list for this, but we can create it on the fly on stream. You'll get to hear my thoughts as I build a deck.
Let me know.
Russ
1
Nah, family stuff today, but yes, sometimes I play at the comic book store. Who is this? Would love to be able to tag team events with a fellow pyro player. I'm usually at gamers vault in Medford on Thursdays.
1
1
I almost always bring in a spellskite for this exact reason. it's also stops ravager's modular ability, EVERYTHING from bogles and infect, and can absorn both parts of K-command. It also makes bolts, helixes, right bolts, o-ring, d-sphere, laughably bad. of those you mentioned, skite is the one you want. I run one in the board.
1
Ray, that was amazing. During my undefeated run in Philly earlier this year, EXACT SAME THING happened. Opponent gained infinite life with the same cast of characters you mentioned and I ultimated koth the following turn. I killed EVERYTHING and we played draw go for the rest of the round until time expired and we drew. I had 8 more cards than my opponent. If there was 5 more minutes on the clock, I would have decked her, 100%
3
So, Mono-Red Prison implies that we are a prison deck. We are NOT a prison deck. Yes, there are some games that we win using prison-like elements, but at our core, we are a perfect blend of aggro/control. the PYRO part in Pyro Prison implies our aggro nature. When we need to be, we abandon ship on the prison elements and turn into a full blown aggro deck using some prison-like cards to offer unique interactions. These are the decks where we side out prison cards like bridge. Examples are control, Big Tron, and Combo.
Vs other decks, we're a control deck, going all in on the "prison" strategy and leave the aggro at home. Vs these, we side out the aggro elements like rabblemaster in favor of more prison/interaction. Examples of this are bogles, humans, hollow-one, and affinity.
If you had to rate our deck on a scale of 1-10 in categories of Aggro and Control, We're probably a 5/10 on the aggro plan and a 5/10 on the control plan. In game two, depending on the match, we can dial up on one and down on the other. for example, UWx control will ALWAYS be a more controlling deck than ours, so we have to assume the aggro role there, embracing the "PYRO" part of our deck. Post board games, we tend to dial up the aggro to a 7-8 while dialing back the control to a 2-3. Vs affinity, we do the opposite. Here, we embrace the "PRISON" part of our deck and dial back the aggro to a 2-3 and dial up the control to a 7-8.
It is for these reasons above why we do not play white. White embraces the control role too much and doesn't have a good aggro plan. sure, vs decks where you want to be the control player, it's MUCH better, but vs decks where you need to assume the aggro role, it's MUCH worse because it doesn't have an aggro role. In those games, you are just playing a worse control deck than the opponent and will lose the vast majority of those matches.
It's also for these reasons that playing this deck will make you a "better magic player" (Trademark FluffyWolf). To get good at this deck, you have to understand bigger magic concepts than just....oh, this card is good here, i'm gonna bring it in. You need to understand "who's the beat down" ans assess how your STRATEGY aligns with the current match. This is why you see so many people winning events, 5-0 MTGO leagues, and just doing well with SO MANY DIFFERENT versions of the deck. Everyone who put up results with this deck has done it in their own way because they all understood that it's not about the cards....it's about understanding your specific strategy and playing accordingly. I made a LOT of play errors when I made Top 4 of the Open in December, but my strategy for each match was sound and, despite not playing optimally, i was able to win.
I know i went off on a really long tangent here, so back to the original question....why Pyro Prison? Because there are two halfs to this deck and depending on the match will depend on which side of the name you will embrace.
Russ
2
Oh no, please don't add white. there's a reason why the people of this forum will never refer to this deck as Mono-red Prison, and instead call it PYRO Prison. When you go white, you are resigning yourself to locking out your opponent and that doesn't work vs half the meta. Sure, vs humans and Bogles, it feels great, but vs control and tron, you'll just die.
Now, onto strategy, Hollow-one/Vengevine. We'll tackle them together because they are the same deck. Game one, the strategy is to get a chalice on One ASAP, followed by a bridge. Bridge should be enough to win the game if you can deply it at a high enough life total. During game one, I am always managing my life total because once you land bridge, they have 4 bolts and 2 collective brutality to finish the job. Typically, if you are over ten life, you got it. If you have a chalice down on one, then you definetly got it. Don't be afraid to use rabblemaster as a removal spell by attacking into unfavorable blocks. remember, game one goal is to get bridge down with 10+ life. there will be a rare occasion where a rabblemaster goes the distance, but that is rare.
Game two.....much different. Here you need bridge and a chalice on TWO. Two stops ancient grudge. If your hand is bridge and a chalice and you run that chalice on one followed by a bridge, you will lose that game, guaranteed. It was through a lot of experience and dicipline that I've learned to wait for the chalice on two. Trust me on this. in post board games, chalice on two, even if you don't have a bridge done, it where you need to be. My strategy is as follows:
Out: 4 Rabblemaster, 1 Blood Moon, 1 Ritual
In: Cage, Hazoret, ONE shattering Spree, Spellskite, 2 Anger.
Here's the rationale....They are much better at jamming up the board than we are, so Rabblemasters need to come out. Next, Blood moon only serves one purpose here, shutting them off from flashing back ancient grudge. With so much random discard, sometimes a blood moon acts like a chalice on two. Moon has a use, but not something you need a full set of. Three is plenty. You don't want to see more than one, and there are a lof of games where you don't even want that. the ritual comes out in matches where you don't need to power out a fast lock piece to win. This is more of a grindy match and no matter what you play on turn 1/2, this game won't be over in your favor. Hollow One can unload on you and end the game really quick, but we cannot lock them out with the same speed. In matched like this, jund, mardu pyromancr, and skred red, when we're not trying for the super fast lock and the games become more grindy, take out a ritual.
So, what comes in? The cage and anger are obvious. Spellskite can eat all the bolts and also eat a flashbacked ancient grudge. Plus, one spellskite in play can negate one bloodghast. Only one shattering spree. hollow-one is their only artifact and we want one more way to deal with it, so only one comes in. That leaves us with two abrade, one spree, and a chandra minus to deal with the 4/4, plenty of ptions.
KCI is w whole different animal. you need TWO lock pieces to win, with EE bing the card you need to stop. If you think jamming an eidolon is enough, then you are very inexperienced in this match. Chalice on one and a way to stop EE is a hard lock. Eidolon Plus damping matrix is also good. If you play spyglass, and you should, that needs to name EE always. EE is the card that wrecks face in this match and it's the card you need to stop. Don't try to get cute and attack the graveyard, the lock pieces we have are enough. In my deck, how do we sideboard?
Out: 4 Bridge, 1 Pyretic Ritual, 2 Slagstorm, 2 blood moon
In: 3 Eidolon, Hazoret, Spellskite, Damping Matrix, Spyglass, 2 shattering Spree
Don't think you'll be able to use anger here either. You won't. Max pressure plus disruption. Turn one rabblemaster followed by lock piece (eidolon, spyglass, etc...) should swing the game wildly in your favor. also try to end the game quickly, meaning if I'm looking at a turn one rabblemaster or chandra, it's rabblemaster. if the sideboard cards show up, this is an easy win. If not, then it's a LOT harder. remember, you'll need at least two lock pieces to stop this deck, and even then, it sometimes not enough.
I hope this helps. Let me know yout thought.
Russ