i like needle drop too, tho. however, i find myself being disapointed in electrolyse. it feels like even the cantriping two damage isnt enough for three mana. should i replace it? and what with? i need something fast, or good early protection.
Along the lines of protection (and flexibility), perhaps Dragon Fodder? Gives you two blockers for two mana, and as a red sorcery will trigger what you need triggered. Not a cantrip, of course, but at times they could also help squeeze some damage through.
Not saying they would be good for you, just saying you might want to look at them.
Have you thought about pairing it with Paradox Haze ? Or is the enchantment too dead on its own to be worth running?
I could see going after land, running a good amount of artifact mana, then running ghostly prison so that if anyone is running small cheap creatures.....they still can't afford to attack you much.
Like a lot of people I have a Boros-ish deck built. I keep tinkering with how much focus it has on double strike....if you have eight double strikers(Boros Swiftblade and Hearthfire Hobgoblin, then those various pumpers of various kinds get really deadly, but the double strikers tend to be pretty vulnerable to removal (2 toughness).
Sometimes I worry less about double strike, and focus more on the red-white nature, where Belligerent Hatchling and Balefire Liege are both good. Drop a hatchling turn four, play a r/w card turn five then attack with it as a 4/4 first striker. Or in some cases as a 6/6 (play two cheap spells, or drop the Liege).
Also, think about having some 'silver bullet' one of targets for the Sunforger to search up, such as one copy of Double Cleave, or whatever other effects you have....soon your opponents will know if you have a sunforger equipped and a couple of mana up, you can foil a lot of what they would do.
Another good utility card is Duergar Hedge-Mage which will deal with any annoying enchantments or artifacts, while still giving you another warm body.
I've tried Brion Stoutarm, with without damage on the stack you can't abuse him nearly as badly, and even then he never worked out for me as well as I'd hoped. Perhaps I needed to look at him more as a 4/4 for 4mana instead of focussing on his throwing ability?
It depends a bit on what your budget is like. But in general when dealing with swarms of (mostly) small creatures, an easy solution is pestilence along with any cheap creature which is protection from black or has regenerate. Which should let you clear out creature swarms fairly well.
Throw in some black point removal (and life gain) (tendrils of corruption and/or drain life for example would help support pestilence and get rid of thing, but don't forget simple terror or doom blade too), and possibly some of the higher end discard (swarms don't work so well if you don't have enough cards to swarm with....mind sludge could be one example).
Of course some early defense--whatever decent black creatures you have available, with an emphasis on toughness or utility (child of night might be decent, just to make sure that when you get your pestilence you still have life left).
And a few big black flyers to finish them off. Most of them will do for what you need here, you don't need anything too obscure or rare.
I'm not saying that this is a good deck, just that it should have the tools to defeat most simple creature swarms a good part of the time, and it should be cheap and easy to put together.
I've not built any new decks for a while, but I'm getting the itch again. What I specifically want to make good use of is the few copies I happen to have of rings of brighthearth. Obviously the point would be to have cards with powerful activated abilities which are either sufficiently costly or normally only useable once (or even once per turn), which would be far more deadly when I could throw an extra copy on the stack.
I play strictly multiplayer--three player with targetting restrictions which often lead to somewhat long games. Still I'll want mana acceleration in order to make good use of the rings, so most likely one colour will be green (although I could just use artifact based if needed). I'm thinking there have to be some powerful back effects based around sacrificing creatures that could be worth copying, although I can't think of any off the top of my head. But for the moment, assume any colour is possible.
Unfortunately none of the card deck search tools seem to have a feature for "search for wicked powerful activated abilities," and as I'm a bit out of touch with my cards I'm not so great at recalling what is out there. So I'm looking for suggestions: cards that would go great with Rings of Brighthearth (assume for the moment that I can build the deck to give me the time and mana needed to play most things).
- For pacifism, championing a creature is a great way to get rid of it. Note that if you champion a champion, the original creature comes back out. And although Nova Chaser is fantastic in a lot of way, there could be times you might as or more happy with Changeling Berserker, because it has haste. They pacify you strongest attacker and think they are reasonably safe this turn, you drop the berserker and swing for at least five, and if they manage to kill it your original creature is back, no longer pacified. Of course, this won't help with oblivion ring.
- Which is why sometimes you just want a counter-spell, it can deal with anything Of course, red doesn't get counterspells....mostly. Someone already mentioned swerve, but there is also Mages' Contest, which may work fairly well if you are being the more aggresive player and putting pressure on their life total--they may not be able to afford to out-bid you. Of course that may weaken you enough that other players will pile onto you, but nothing is perfect.
I'm a 98% casual player, since just before Alliances came out.
I agree that overall, more of the new cards are good than with the old cards. I don't play many cards with the old borders, even though I have more of those.
There are a few cards that I really don't like in casual multiplayer from the new sets. I'd not say they totally ruin things, but they hurt my fun a bit. It seems that Wizards has decided that by six mana you should be able to just about kill someone by playing one card. In multiplayer the odds that one of your opponents will be vulnerable to a particular kill card like that are maybe higher than in two player. For example, Cruel Ultimatum. So at times it feels like you are just building up to a really interesting board position, and then POW someone gets essentially wiped out by one card.
I think that is perhaps poor development? There are some effects that just can't be balanced well with mana costs....they are either essentially unplayable because of how hard they are to cast, or else they have a not-so-fun effect on the game (at least from a casual perspective, where an interesting game is often a higher goal than winning no matter how).
Mind you, I think most casual gruops are pretty good about accepting "You know, you wrecked us with that a few times now, but it really isn't any fun. Could you send it on vacation for a while?" (whether 'it' is a card or a deck).
Thanks for posting this! (he's following up on something I asked about a while ago).
Yah, with only half a dozen or so chimera, I think 2 sanctum gargoyle should be enough.
I'm surprised by no Cairn Wanderer. They'd pick up the abilities of any dead chimera, making the chimera doubly useful once dead As well as the abilities of your opponents' dead creatures, of which in multi-player there are often plenty.
I've been wondering if a "five colour green" approach could work in draft? I'd been thinking about it mostly in respect to landfall cards, but maybe it could also or alternatively work with allies?
The idea would be to pick the land-finders (like harrow) and the uncommon dual-lands aggressively, right after out and out bombs. Then in the case of allies, fill up on the allies that come around later, because they are not that great for most people. Play a base of forests and a sprinkling of the other land types to search up.
I don't have a feel yet for how fast the format will be, but so far it looks like there is not a lot of first couple of turn speed, but that things will start jumping very fast by turn four at the latest. Which might give 5cG - allies enough time to get established? Will have to wait to see more of the spoiler.
I'm likely going to take my son to play two-headed giant at the pre-release, and I'll certainly be looking to see if we have enough mana-fixing to support a 5CG strategy for one of the decks.
Also noted that a couple of the allies that went up in the spoiler today are not showing the 'under your control' part of the trigger. Not sure if this is an error in the spoiler, or if some allies actually trigger on an ally entering the battlefield under anyone's control? If the latter, those ones would clearly trigger more often (whether that makes them strong enough to play is another question).
I'd drop the razorfin hunter in favour of Dragon Fodder. It is a sorcery, so playes nicely with your engine cards, gives you an early defense possibility, mixes in interesting ways with Izzet Guildmage later on, and even gives you a chance at swarming sometimes.
MaRo did mention that all along this block had been penciled in as being a bit experimental, to break new ground. By now he surely knows how dubious a lot of people will be about new things, and he saw early on what the reaction to "the land block" idea was.
So maybe bringing back kicker, which I think is one of those broadly popular mechanics which is simple for people to understand was a deliberate attempt to sweeten the set a bit, from a saleability point of view? People who might ask "How many cards do I want to buy from a set that is about the most boring of all card types, land?" might also react with "Kicker is back? Cool, I really enjoyed it before, well, maybe this won't be so bad, I should buy some and see what I think?"
Not in standard obviously, and probably too slow for extended, but maybe in more casual settings? I wonder if they had to actually limit the potential of quests because of MaRo's insistence on doubling cards that resulted in Guilder Bairn?
So far most of the quests look weak enough to not seem worth the bother, but I could see potential in Luminarch Accension:
From the spoiler: 1W, enchantment
* At the beginning of each opponent's end step, if you didn't lose life this turn, you may put a quest counter on Luminarch Ascension. (Damage causes loss of life)
* 1W: Put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if Luminarch Ascension has four or more quest counters on it.
With a W/U deck should be able to hold off damage for a couple of turns, then double the counters....or even if you drop the enchantment on turn two, and have any sort of chump blocker down, two doublings after that, then if the spoiler is correct, and there is no limit on how many angels you can pump out....could get pretty scary, fast!
I'm a long time, mostly casual, player, and in any given set I'll buy between a few boosters and half a box or so. The biggest factor in me buying more than a few boosters is how interesting the commons are. If I do wander into a store it will be for sealed deck or a draft, again driven by the commons.
So yah, I'll hold my judgement about how interested I am in a set until I see the commons. But I agree that a far higher portion of the rarer cards get spoiled, especially spoiled early.
I'm already thinking of a casual ally/changeling deck. That should let it focus in just 2-3 colours, but have enough 'ally' drops to power the allies up. I'm sure it would not be competitive, but it looks like it could be fun for casual.
I play mostly three-player with some rules about targetting, so not the same as larger and more wide-open games, but I think some of the same rules apply.
- Tempo still matters, in the sense of making use of your mana. But it is often less key that you have a two drop compared to being able to make good use of the eight mana that you have on turn 13. Traditional two player decks are very seldom able to continue making good use of their mana late into the game. This could mean having a higher curve on your spells or more 'X' spells, but it also often means having abilities that make good use of mana to power strong abilities.
- Card advantage matters to all decks, even aggresive ones. There is nothing like getting a fast start and getting labelled as a threat, then being reduced to top-decking while everyone else has cards in hand. That is, there is nothing quite so sure to make you feel doomed. The source of the card advantage may not be playable in two player, however. For example, if you have a lower mana curve and some good way to make use of land without playing it (spellshapers, for example), Mercadian Atlas can be a personal Howling Mine.
As a fairly easy deck to put together that can be fun in multiplayer, I think, look at the '5 color elemental' thread that is current on here. The Horde of Notions give you a good mana sink, and the recursion they give you supplies card advantage (as well as from the Mulldrifters, of course)
Along the lines of protection (and flexibility), perhaps Dragon Fodder? Gives you two blockers for two mana, and as a red sorcery will trigger what you need triggered. Not a cantrip, of course, but at times they could also help squeeze some damage through.
Not saying they would be good for you, just saying you might want to look at them.
I could see going after land, running a good amount of artifact mana, then running ghostly prison so that if anyone is running small cheap creatures.....they still can't afford to attack you much.
Sometimes I worry less about double strike, and focus more on the red-white nature, where Belligerent Hatchling and Balefire Liege are both good. Drop a hatchling turn four, play a r/w card turn five then attack with it as a 4/4 first striker. Or in some cases as a 6/6 (play two cheap spells, or drop the Liege).
Also, think about having some 'silver bullet' one of targets for the Sunforger to search up, such as one copy of Double Cleave, or whatever other effects you have....soon your opponents will know if you have a sunforger equipped and a couple of mana up, you can foil a lot of what they would do.
Another good utility card is Duergar Hedge-Mage which will deal with any annoying enchantments or artifacts, while still giving you another warm body.
I've tried Brion Stoutarm, with without damage on the stack you can't abuse him nearly as badly, and even then he never worked out for me as well as I'd hoped. Perhaps I needed to look at him more as a 4/4 for 4mana instead of focussing on his throwing ability?
I hope that gives you some more ideas!
Throw in some black point removal (and life gain) (tendrils of corruption and/or drain life for example would help support pestilence and get rid of thing, but don't forget simple terror or doom blade too), and possibly some of the higher end discard (swarms don't work so well if you don't have enough cards to swarm with....mind sludge could be one example).
Of course some early defense--whatever decent black creatures you have available, with an emphasis on toughness or utility (child of night might be decent, just to make sure that when you get your pestilence you still have life left).
And a few big black flyers to finish them off. Most of them will do for what you need here, you don't need anything too obscure or rare.
I'm not saying that this is a good deck, just that it should have the tools to defeat most simple creature swarms a good part of the time, and it should be cheap and easy to put together.
I play strictly multiplayer--three player with targetting restrictions which often lead to somewhat long games. Still I'll want mana acceleration in order to make good use of the rings, so most likely one colour will be green (although I could just use artifact based if needed). I'm thinking there have to be some powerful back effects based around sacrificing creatures that could be worth copying, although I can't think of any off the top of my head. But for the moment, assume any colour is possible.
Unfortunately none of the card deck search tools seem to have a feature for "search for wicked powerful activated abilities," and as I'm a bit out of touch with my cards I'm not so great at recalling what is out there. So I'm looking for suggestions: cards that would go great with Rings of Brighthearth (assume for the moment that I can build the deck to give me the time and mana needed to play most things).
- For pacifism, championing a creature is a great way to get rid of it. Note that if you champion a champion, the original creature comes back out. And although Nova Chaser is fantastic in a lot of way, there could be times you might as or more happy with Changeling Berserker, because it has haste. They pacify you strongest attacker and think they are reasonably safe this turn, you drop the berserker and swing for at least five, and if they manage to kill it your original creature is back, no longer pacified. Of course, this won't help with oblivion ring.
- Which is why sometimes you just want a counter-spell, it can deal with anything
I agree that overall, more of the new cards are good than with the old cards. I don't play many cards with the old borders, even though I have more of those.
There are a few cards that I really don't like in casual multiplayer from the new sets. I'd not say they totally ruin things, but they hurt my fun a bit. It seems that Wizards has decided that by six mana you should be able to just about kill someone by playing one card. In multiplayer the odds that one of your opponents will be vulnerable to a particular kill card like that are maybe higher than in two player. For example, Cruel Ultimatum. So at times it feels like you are just building up to a really interesting board position, and then POW someone gets essentially wiped out by one card.
I think that is perhaps poor development? There are some effects that just can't be balanced well with mana costs....they are either essentially unplayable because of how hard they are to cast, or else they have a not-so-fun effect on the game (at least from a casual perspective, where an interesting game is often a higher goal than winning no matter how).
Mind you, I think most casual gruops are pretty good about accepting "You know, you wrecked us with that a few times now, but it really isn't any fun. Could you send it on vacation for a while?" (whether 'it' is a card or a deck).
Yah, with only half a dozen or so chimera, I think 2 sanctum gargoyle should be enough.
I'm surprised by no Cairn Wanderer. They'd pick up the abilities of any dead chimera, making the chimera doubly useful once dead
And just for giggles, maybe once in a while (if you have them) throw in a ] or a Sosuke, Son of Seshiro" target="blank">Seshiro the anointed[/CARD] or a Sosuke, Son of Seshiro. They both have a pretty dramatic effect on changelings that can throw your opponents for a loop--and would be unexpected out of the 'chimera deck.'
The idea would be to pick the land-finders (like harrow) and the uncommon dual-lands aggressively, right after out and out bombs. Then in the case of allies, fill up on the allies that come around later, because they are not that great for most people. Play a base of forests and a sprinkling of the other land types to search up.
I don't have a feel yet for how fast the format will be, but so far it looks like there is not a lot of first couple of turn speed, but that things will start jumping very fast by turn four at the latest. Which might give 5cG - allies enough time to get established? Will have to wait to see more of the spoiler.
I'm likely going to take my son to play two-headed giant at the pre-release, and I'll certainly be looking to see if we have enough mana-fixing to support a 5CG strategy for one of the decks.
Also noted that a couple of the allies that went up in the spoiler today are not showing the 'under your control' part of the trigger. Not sure if this is an error in the spoiler, or if some allies actually trigger on an ally entering the battlefield under anyone's control? If the latter, those ones would clearly trigger more often (whether that makes them strong enough to play is another question).
So maybe bringing back kicker, which I think is one of those broadly popular mechanics which is simple for people to understand was a deliberate attempt to sweeten the set a bit, from a saleability point of view? People who might ask "How many cards do I want to buy from a set that is about the most boring of all card types, land?" might also react with "Kicker is back? Cool, I really enjoyed it before, well, maybe this won't be so bad, I should buy some and see what I think?"
Just speculating, of course.
So far most of the quests look weak enough to not seem worth the bother, but I could see potential in Luminarch Accension:
From the spoiler: 1W, enchantment
* At the beginning of each opponent's end step, if you didn't lose life this turn, you may put a quest counter on Luminarch Ascension. (Damage causes loss of life)
* 1W: Put a 4/4 white Angel creature token with flying onto the battlefield. Activate this ability only if Luminarch Ascension has four or more quest counters on it.
With a W/U deck should be able to hold off damage for a couple of turns, then double the counters....or even if you drop the enchantment on turn two, and have any sort of chump blocker down, two doublings after that, then if the spoiler is correct, and there is no limit on how many angels you can pump out....could get pretty scary, fast!
So yah, I'll hold my judgement about how interested I am in a set until I see the commons. But I agree that a far higher portion of the rarer cards get spoiled, especially spoiled early.
- Tempo still matters, in the sense of making use of your mana. But it is often less key that you have a two drop compared to being able to make good use of the eight mana that you have on turn 13. Traditional two player decks are very seldom able to continue making good use of their mana late into the game. This could mean having a higher curve on your spells or more 'X' spells, but it also often means having abilities that make good use of mana to power strong abilities.
- Card advantage matters to all decks, even aggresive ones. There is nothing like getting a fast start and getting labelled as a threat, then being reduced to top-decking while everyone else has cards in hand. That is, there is nothing quite so sure to make you feel doomed. The source of the card advantage may not be playable in two player, however. For example, if you have a lower mana curve and some good way to make use of land without playing it (spellshapers, for example), Mercadian Atlas can be a personal Howling Mine.
As a fairly easy deck to put together that can be fun in multiplayer, I think, look at the '5 color elemental' thread that is current on here. The Horde of Notions give you a good mana sink, and the recursion they give you supplies card advantage (as well as from the Mulldrifters, of course)