So it counts as a "Sliver Spell" not a "Sliver Creature", okay, so then in the case of Root Sliver, that would mean Nameless Inversion can't be countered?
Simple question, if I play the Tribal Instant Nameless Inversion and I have a Pulmonic Sliver on the battlefield, does Nameless Inversion get put on top of my library?
I guess where I'm confused is that Pulmonic Sliver's ability says "If this creature". I know Changeling says Nameless Inversion is "every creature type" but in this context does it count AS a creature?
Additionally, in the context of a sliver deck, would Nameless Inversion trigger any/all "enter the battlefield" effects as it resolves?
So, a little background first. This deck started simply as a Mono-black Pauper Ponza deck I found online. I thought this list made for a good base so I went browsing around and came up with a lot of ideas to give the deck some more variety. First the list, and then I'll explain my choices.
Now I'll break the deck down into the broader goals each card is aligned with.
Land Destruction
4 Rancid Earth - Potential bonus burn
3 Reap and Sow - Added versatility of possible ramp
2 Destroy the Evidence - Bonus mill
2 Demonic Hordes & 2Helldozer - Either is part of a combo in this deck. I couldn't decide on only having one or the other, because I can see how both could be better in certain circumstances. Either way, they're also beefy creatures.
Control
4 Twiddle - Very versatile for control, getting doubles of a different color of mana, also great for using on Demonic Hordes or Helldozer
4 Freed from the Real - Versatile control, or, perfect for comboing up on Demonic Hordes or Helldozer for repeated land destruction.
4 Chittering Rats - A bit of a stretch, like I said this started as a pauper deck, but this card does give a nice bit of extra grief to the opponent.
Card Advantage/Deck Dig
2 Dusk Legion Zealot - Super cheap, ala pauper, I'm far from committed to this card, just a nice quick extra draw and then possibly on the field just to tank a hit.
2 Thorn of the Black Rose - Deathtouch is always nice to have to spook your opponent from attacking. I also never heard of 'monarch' before this card, but very cool!
4 Sign in Blood - Simple, cheap, fast card advantage. Despite the extra mana cost, I might opt for Read the Bones instead for the added scry, or perhaps do a 2/2 split.
1 Barren Moor - Card draw that doubles as a potential swamp. Not married to this, would be interested to see what people think of it in this context.
Ramp/Fixing
4 Dark Ritual - There's a lot of black, so this only makes sense.
4 Rampant Growth - Ramp that can instantly fix my mana if I'm still missing that blue.
3 Reap and Sow - Already in the "Land Destruction" section, just further pointing out the dual-utility of it.
2 Peat Bog - Same with Dark Ritual, there's a lot of black, and this can really give me a nice boost early on.
4 Evolving Wilds - Obviously.
3 Opulent Palace - Same speed as Evolving Wilds, but it makes every color I need available at once.
Like I said, this started as a Pauper deck, and with a couple exception card disqualifying it, it still is largely pauper. I'm not looking to spend hundreds in upgrades to it, but I'd certainly like any feedback or pointers on where this deck could possibly be improved upon or otherwise enhanced.
Sideboard recommendations would be appreciated as well. I've not really had much use for sideboards, as my friends and I play MtG very casually, but having a good sideboard would be nice anyways.
Funny enough, as-is, this deck costs less than $25, so I'll be buying all the cards I've listed, but I'm still 110% interested in improving upon it down the line!
P.S. The new Guilds of Ravnica set includes the card Unmoored Ego, which I think would be perfect for this deck! I'm definitely getting a playset when it becomes available. Thoughts?
Yea, cool thanks! If you do decide to build this yourself, you should send me a PM some time and let me know how it goes for you Once I've played the deck for a while and worked with it a bit, I may even consider trying my hand at a Legacy tournament with it, everything I've put in comes up as legal, so, I see no reason not to.
And yea, I'd have no idea what to even put in a sideboard right now anyways.
Alright, you make a lot of strong points. Really I would love to get a set of Breeding Pool, so, I may just spread it out and buy them a little at a time like Chord. As for Judge's Familiar, I was a little confused at first as to why you were pushing that card so hard, but I suppose since I'm aiming for victory by turn 4, that payment of 1 extra mana on the opponent's part can really **** with them? Especially since I guess it could be really easy for them to be tapped-out by the time it gets to my turn that early in the game.
So that considered, here's another edit of my deck.
As you can see I kept Preordain in there, really just because I really want something to draw cards. Although if you can think of anything better than Preordain purely for drawing cards then by all means shoot. If I was a millionare I'd just buy 4 Ancestral Recall's, but sadly I'm not. Braingeyser maybe?
Also, I realized the other night that Mirrorweave is actually SUPER good for Slivers in general, since a lot of their abilities stack, such as Leeching Sliver, Frenzy Sliver, Diffusion Sliver(I think), Opaline Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, and any of the +1/+1 slivers. So I think I may buy multiple playsets of Mirrorweave to have handy to just toss in to any future sliver decks I do, haha.
Alright, a lot of good ideas in here. I'm really torn on Chord of Calling. Granted, it does let you pull a creature of any color, and that Kaho combo is pretty dang sweet, but with the extra 2 mana cost, that makes for a total of 7 permanents/lands tapping just to pull her, and 4 tapping if i just want to pull out one of my 1 drop creatures.
There is also the matter of wanting some defense and deck-digging cards in here, so, going off what you've provided, I've made some concessions and here's where I'm currently at.
Thoughts? Also, can you think of anything I could use as opposed to Breeding Pool? I really would rather not spend $40+ getting all 4 of those for my deck. Anything like Gemstone Mine perhaps? Since this deck is supposed to win in as few turns as possible, I'm not so sure the limited use would be an issue. Chord of Calling is pretty pricey too, but, I think I may just have to wait a paycheck and bite the bullet on that one. Expensive hobbies are still hobbies, I suppose, haha.
edit: Also, forgot, with a few quick tests, I was able to get a win-condition with this setup even with a fairly rough starting hand by turn 5.
So any thoughts? From my testing with this, it looks like it's now waaaay easier to reach victory conditions on turns 6, 5, and 4.
Also, any ideas for my Sideboard? I've found by testing against others on Untap.in, that my deck gets toootally butchered by cards like Drown in Sorrow
Yea that's fair, would really show up my friend. He has decks that use totally B.S. combos with banned cards, but they usually take a bit to set up. Such as this one exploit combo in his Myr deck that allows him to repeatedly tap and untap a few of his Myr for infinite Mana.
Also, any recommendations on good, quick tutor cards? As I said, I was considering Homing Sliver to get out Virulent Sliver, but also Mystical Tutor for Mirrorweave and maybe Worldly Tutor for Virulent, although Worldly Tutor is pretty expensive by my standards, haha.
Side note, do you think I really need Mangara's Tome at this point, or should I free that slot up for a different low-drop card? I am trying to keep my deck at exactly 60 cards.
Hot damn those are some good tips! I've never seen Mirroweave before, that's diabolocal! I didn't even consider a card that could just straight up turn everything into a Virulent Sliver!
I should also suggest Mirroweave to my friend's Biovisionary deck.
But it looks like if I had some kind of mana ramp in here, like, i dunno Lotus petals or something, I could get a victory in turn 3 with Mirroweave. I'd just have to be able to get enough mana off.
Turn 1 I can get a Virulent Sliver, then turn 2 I can get 2 1-drop unblockables. Turn 3 I just need 1 more 1-drop unblockable and Mirroweave, as all 3 unblockables would essentially have poisonous 4. But that means I would need 5 mana to use in turn 3.
Hey all! I actually just joined the forum. I'm not totally sure where the best place to put this was, but since this deck I'm working on isn't really trying to adhere to any format (I just like playing Magic with my buddies), I figured in casual would be fine. So this is a bit of a Johnny deck I'm working on, combining Virulent Sliver with weak unblockable creatures and Hivestone. Essentially trying to bump the opponent to 10 poison counters as fast as possible.
Here's what I currently have in the deck (I'll explain my reasoning for some).
Spells Hivestonex4 Muddle the Mixturex4(The primary uses for this are ensuring I pull out Hivestone, and if I already have it out, grabbing a Blighted Agent, but it's also just nice to have a counter) Mangara's Tomex1(Sort of risky, but if the match is going on long enough and I pull it out, can help speed things back up for me)
Lands Ancient Zigguratx4(Since the deck is so creature heavy) Unclaimed Territoryx2(I'd like a ruling to see if choosing "slivers" would let me play non-slivers with it after playing Hivestone, but this is more for dropping the more expensive slivers)
Forestx4
Islandx10
Some ideas I already have...
Since the Virulent sliver is so important in this deck, I was also thinking about maybe swapping two of the Muddle's for 2 Homing Slivers, since using it just as a Tutor makes its color irrelevant.
I was also considering perhaps Coat of Arms to beef up Blighted Agent and place more weight on its "Infect" ability.
Also a pretty recent card, Animation Module, looks like it could be useful, via its second ability.
As it stands, my testing has shown that I can reasonably manage a turn 6 or 7 victory, but I'm pretty sure a turn 5 victory is possible with my current cards.
So does anyone have any ideas or suggestions in regards to the info here that could perhaps make my deck more consistent or even knock out 10 poison counters faster than turn 5? Keep in mind, this is casual, so I'm really not super interested in spending more than $10-$20 on a single card (and even at those prices I'd hold off on buying for a whiiiiile)
I guess where I'm confused is that Pulmonic Sliver's ability says "If this creature". I know Changeling says Nameless Inversion is "every creature type" but in this context does it count AS a creature?
Additionally, in the context of a sliver deck, would Nameless Inversion trigger any/all "enter the battlefield" effects as it resolves?
2 Dusk Legion Zealot
4 Chittering Rats
2 Thorn of the Black Rose
2 Demonic Hordes
2 Helldozer
Spells (29)
4 Dark Ritual
4 Twiddle
4 Rampant Growth
4 Sign in Blood
4 Freed from the Real
4 Rancid Earth
3 Reap and Sow
2 Destroy the Evidence
1 Barren Moor
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Forest
2 Island
3 Opulent Palace
2 Peat Bog
5 Swamp
Now I'll break the deck down into the broader goals each card is aligned with.
Land Destruction
4 Rancid Earth - Potential bonus burn
3 Reap and Sow - Added versatility of possible ramp
2 Destroy the Evidence - Bonus mill
2 Demonic Hordes & 2Helldozer - Either is part of a combo in this deck. I couldn't decide on only having one or the other, because I can see how both could be better in certain circumstances. Either way, they're also beefy creatures.
Control
4 Twiddle - Very versatile for control, getting doubles of a different color of mana, also great for using on Demonic Hordes or Helldozer
4 Freed from the Real - Versatile control, or, perfect for comboing up on Demonic Hordes or Helldozer for repeated land destruction.
4 Chittering Rats - A bit of a stretch, like I said this started as a pauper deck, but this card does give a nice bit of extra grief to the opponent.
Card Advantage/Deck Dig
2 Dusk Legion Zealot - Super cheap, ala pauper, I'm far from committed to this card, just a nice quick extra draw and then possibly on the field just to tank a hit.
2 Thorn of the Black Rose - Deathtouch is always nice to have to spook your opponent from attacking. I also never heard of 'monarch' before this card, but very cool!
4 Sign in Blood - Simple, cheap, fast card advantage. Despite the extra mana cost, I might opt for Read the Bones instead for the added scry, or perhaps do a 2/2 split.
1 Barren Moor - Card draw that doubles as a potential swamp. Not married to this, would be interested to see what people think of it in this context.
Ramp/Fixing
4 Dark Ritual - There's a lot of black, so this only makes sense.
4 Rampant Growth - Ramp that can instantly fix my mana if I'm still missing that blue.
3 Reap and Sow - Already in the "Land Destruction" section, just further pointing out the dual-utility of it.
2 Peat Bog - Same with Dark Ritual, there's a lot of black, and this can really give me a nice boost early on.
4 Evolving Wilds - Obviously.
3 Opulent Palace - Same speed as Evolving Wilds, but it makes every color I need available at once.
Like I said, this started as a Pauper deck, and with a couple exception card disqualifying it, it still is largely pauper. I'm not looking to spend hundreds in upgrades to it, but I'd certainly like any feedback or pointers on where this deck could possibly be improved upon or otherwise enhanced.
Sideboard recommendations would be appreciated as well. I've not really had much use for sideboards, as my friends and I play MtG very casually, but having a good sideboard would be nice anyways.
Funny enough, as-is, this deck costs less than $25, so I'll be buying all the cards I've listed, but I'm still 110% interested in improving upon it down the line!
P.S. The new Guilds of Ravnica set includes the card Unmoored Ego, which I think would be perfect for this deck! I'm definitely getting a playset when it becomes available. Thoughts?
And yea, I'd have no idea what to even put in a sideboard right now anyways.
So that considered, here's another edit of my deck.
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
8 Island
Creatures (25)
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Gudul Lurker
4 Slither Blade
4 Judge's Familiar
4 Virulent Sliver
2 Augury Owl
1 Kaho, Minamo Historian
4 Mirrorweave
4 Chord of Calling
2 Preordain
2 Merchant Scroll
1 Tower Defense
As you can see I kept Preordain in there, really just because I really want something to draw cards. Although if you can think of anything better than Preordain purely for drawing cards then by all means shoot. If I was a millionare I'd just buy 4 Ancestral Recall's, but sadly I'm not.
Braingeyser maybe?
Also, I realized the other night that Mirrorweave is actually SUPER good for Slivers in general, since a lot of their abilities stack, such as Leeching Sliver, Frenzy Sliver, Diffusion Sliver(I think), Opaline Sliver, Harmonic Sliver, and any of the +1/+1 slivers. So I think I may buy multiple playsets of Mirrorweave to have handy to just toss in to any future sliver decks I do, haha.
There is also the matter of wanting some defense and deck-digging cards in here, so, going off what you've provided, I've made some concessions and here's where I'm currently at.
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Breeding Pool
6 Forest
8 Island
Creatures (25)
3 Arbor Elf
3 Birds of Paradise
4 Gudul Lurker
4 Slither Blade
4 Triton Shorestalker
4 Virulent Sliver
2 Augury Owl
1 Kaho, Minamo Historian
4 Mirrorweave
4 Chord of Calling
3 Preordain
2 Tower Defense
Thoughts? Also, can you think of anything I could use as opposed to Breeding Pool? I really would rather not spend $40+ getting all 4 of those for my deck. Anything like Gemstone Mine perhaps? Since this deck is supposed to win in as few turns as possible, I'm not so sure the limited use would be an issue. Chord of Calling is pretty pricey too, but, I think I may just have to wait a paycheck and bite the bullet on that one. Expensive hobbies are still hobbies, I suppose, haha.
edit: Also, forgot, with a few quick tests, I was able to get a win-condition with this setup even with a fairly rough starting hand by turn 5.
Creatures
Birds of Paradise x3
Gudul Lurker x4
Slither Blade x4
Triton Shorestalker x4
Virulent Sliver x4
Augury Owl x2
Blighted Agent x2
Spells
Green Sun's Zenith x2
Ponder x2
Preordain x4
Merchant Scroll x2
Mirrorweave x4
Tezzeret's Gambit x3
Lands
Ancient Ziggurat x2
Hinterland Harbor x4
Forest x4
Island x10
So any thoughts? From my testing with this, it looks like it's now waaaay easier to reach victory conditions on turns 6, 5, and 4.
Also, any ideas for my Sideboard? I've found by testing against others on Untap.in, that my deck gets toootally butchered by cards like Drown in Sorrow
Also, any recommendations on good, quick tutor cards? As I said, I was considering Homing Sliver to get out Virulent Sliver, but also Mystical Tutor for Mirrorweave and maybe Worldly Tutor for Virulent, although Worldly Tutor is pretty expensive by my standards, haha.
Side note, do you think I really need Mangara's Tome at this point, or should I free that slot up for a different low-drop card? I am trying to keep my deck at exactly 60 cards.
I should also suggest Mirroweave to my friend's Biovisionary deck.
But it looks like if I had some kind of mana ramp in here, like, i dunno Lotus petals or something, I could get a victory in turn 3 with Mirroweave. I'd just have to be able to get enough mana off.
Turn 1 I can get a Virulent Sliver, then turn 2 I can get 2 1-drop unblockables. Turn 3 I just need 1 more 1-drop unblockable and Mirroweave, as all 3 unblockables would essentially have poisonous 4. But that means I would need 5 mana to use in turn 3.
Here's what I currently have in the deck (I'll explain my reasoning for some).
Creatures
Triton Shorestalkerx4
Virulent Sliverx4
AEther Figmentx4
Blighted Agentx4
Invisible Stalkerx4
Deathcult Roguex4
Latch Seekerx4
Shadow Sliverx2(I figured if I get several actual slivers out, this could be played at the last moment to make everything unblockable and finish)
Synchronous Sliverx1(Seemed like it'd be nice just in case letting my creatures swing and block would save my ass)
Spells
Hivestonex4
Muddle the Mixturex4(The primary uses for this are ensuring I pull out Hivestone, and if I already have it out, grabbing a Blighted Agent, but it's also just nice to have a counter)
Mangara's Tomex1(Sort of risky, but if the match is going on long enough and I pull it out, can help speed things back up for me)
Lands
Ancient Zigguratx4(Since the deck is so creature heavy)
Unclaimed Territoryx2(I'd like a ruling to see if choosing "slivers" would let me play non-slivers with it after playing Hivestone, but this is more for dropping the more expensive slivers)
Forestx4
Islandx10
Some ideas I already have...
Since the Virulent sliver is so important in this deck, I was also thinking about maybe swapping two of the Muddle's for 2 Homing Slivers, since using it just as a Tutor makes its color irrelevant.
Also some of my lands could perhaps be swapped for some dual-color lands, stuff like Botanical Sanctum, Breeding Pool, Flooded Grove, or Temple of Mystery(for the added scry).
I was also considering perhaps Coat of Arms to beef up Blighted Agent and place more weight on its "Infect" ability.
Also a pretty recent card, Animation Module, looks like it could be useful, via its second ability.
As it stands, my testing has shown that I can reasonably manage a turn 6 or 7 victory, but I'm pretty sure a turn 5 victory is possible with my current cards.
So does anyone have any ideas or suggestions in regards to the info here that could perhaps make my deck more consistent or even knock out 10 poison counters faster than turn 5? Keep in mind, this is casual, so I'm really not super interested in spending more than $10-$20 on a single card (and even at those prices I'd hold off on buying for a whiiiiile)