The only way i can see us going to Theros is if something happens in Dominaria that leads to Ajani finding out that Elspeth is alive or something bad happens in theros and Gideon finds out about (when i say bad i mean bad bad, Heliod's death bad) because of right now everything indicates Ravnica, like many have said Ravnica is Bolas endgame but also Ral and Vraska are working with Bolas, there's also Jace and Vraska's plot against Bolas.
Now if we look at the mechanics in the game you could use the CMC as an indication of Theros, but there's also many GW token cards and UG +1/+1 counters in standard right now, and they can be used as indication of Ravnica just as much as CMC can be used as indication of Theros.
IMO we should wait until we get to the finish line of dominaria's story, by then we should get an idead of where we're heading, i think Ravnica is the most likely of the options but like i said, with the right twist we could end up on Theros, and there's also the rumor of New Phyrexia based on Karn's speech on the trailer for Dominaria.
I liked the story quite a bit. I figured Josu would show up in the story again, since this is Liliana's chance for major character development, but I didn't expect him to be under Belzenlok's thrall. Clearly Belzenlok is going to use him as leverage to keep Liliana from killing him.
Nissa breaking her Oath is unsurprising to me, given everything (and it's also unsurprising that she'd retreat to Zendikar), but I wonder what will happen with Chandra. Maybe she went to Regatha, and maybe that's where they'll finally confirm/deny if Mother Luti really is Jaya, since the latter will show up in the story.
Today's story definetly did not live up to the hype, maybe Liliana is just boring idk, her brother being the lich was supposed to be some amazing surprise but was like "meh", or maybe i'm just that annoying who knows.
I'll be honest in saying that I didn't expect you to love this story, regardless of whatever it was.
You know me xD.
I didn't hated it though, i liked what they did with Chandra and Nissa, and i wont deny, the Jhoira section waz amazing, when she said "Weatherlight" i got excited.
I just can't handle Liliana.
Today's story definetly did not live up to the hype, maybe Liliana is just boring idk, her brother being the lich was supposed to be some amazing surprise but was like "meh", or maybe i'm just that annoying who knows.
Also i thought it was really cool how Liliana described Nissa leaving in a "rage" state and Chandra wnet out to "find herself" it seems to me like everyone is changing exepct Liliana, even Gideon now understands that he's being used by Liliana so he is using her as well.
1) Reading the subtext Azor seems to see Ugin more as a friend then Ugin does of Azor, suggesting Ugin was more using Azor.
I'm really starting to get this feeling about Ugin. Between his interactions with Sorin&Nahiri, Azor, and the Gatewatch... it's looking more and more like Ugin is just as bad as Bolas when it comes to manipulating people into doing his bidding, then throwing them away once they're no longer useful.
Ugin doesn't throw people away, he simply look the other way, Bolas kills or destroys things, people and worlds he has no use for.
Why would anyone want to go back to Ixalan? the only cool thing that could happen on a return would be Useless Island becoming a huge city under the rule of Azor.
Maybe it's because some of us are actually interested in the plot hooks left hanging on the plane (namely the Ixalani's attempted invasion of Torrezon, and the potential Legion civil war).
Also, I don't know what you mean by "cool", but Azor has no reason to build a city on Useless Island when he'd be the only sapient resident.
Sure, there are a few plot hooks left, guess which other planes also have plot hooks, Amonkhet, New Phyrexia, Innistrad, and many more the only difference between these planes and Ixalan is that they are actually interesting.
And you're right Azor can't interact with anyone, but do you really thing he is going to sit around Useless Island doing nothing?.
Anyone that know anything about laws knows very well they are filled with holes that can be exploited, and Azor is the guy who literally created the entire legal systems of many worlds.
But what actually pissed me off about this thread (which led to my comments) is the fact that we just got out of Ixalan, if you want to talk about this, wait a few years will ya'
Why would anyone want to go back to Ixalan? the only cool thing that could happen on a return would be Useless Island becoming a huge city under the rule of Azor.
Can we um, tone down the vitriol here?
Yes, there are conflicts with Liliana being a member of the Gatewatch, and yes I imagine that there was some fallout when she left without much of a fight...
However,
She is also a powerful planeswalker and (while maybe these are my own thoughts being Abzan and all) that power can serve noble purposes if channeled correctly. I am enough of a realist to understand that sometimes you have to use all the tools in your belt, including those deemed nasty, dark, but powerful.
Also, all of the Gatewatch planeswalkers bring conflict to the group if the team's purposes end up being too radically different from their own philosophies and values.
Chandra values freedom and choice. She's not going to join causes that subjugates people in their creative, personal expressions, particularly those that don't jeopardize the safety and freedoms other people- much.
Nissa values the environment and preserving natural balance, whatever that means for the plane in question. It is unlikely she would join in causes where she feels the net harm and damage to the planar ecology is greater than the benefits to such environment and ecology.
Gideon cares about doing that which he feels is 'just' and 'right'. This is perhaps one of the most flexible standards as it is not entirely clear what is included in these principles. We know that he prefers to work within the confines of the law if possible and that he cares about both individuals and societies as a whole. Where he chooses to err in these may depend on Creative.
Jace's own ideology is also fairly flexible. He is concerned with the 'big picture', personal responsibilities, Learning, and those with whom he's formed an alliance with. Threats to either the Multiverse, Ravnica, the Gatewatch, or learning opportunities are likely to motivate him the most. He is also motivated to learn as much as he can about subjects that interest him.
Lilliana is the easiest to figure out. If it helps or benefits Liliana in some way, particularly with her remaining demons or controlling the Veil then she'll do it, especially if the benefits outweigh the costs to her. She has also no problem trying to gain psychological advantages over other Gatewatch members, particularly if it allows her to better control or manipulate them to better meet her own agenda.
Ajani- not entirely sure. He seems to be a mixture of both Gideon's and Nissa's values, as he cares about almost everyone including nature, and dislikes abuses of power and ability.
I think we will see more conflict as more members join and as new objectives arise that may conflict with individual members. The Eldrazi and Bolas are pretty universal Threats to most value and ideological systems. The biggest sticking point I see in the future is the question as to when should the Gatewatch interfere and when should they not.
I get what you're saying, but here's the thing, Liliana isn't just a very powerful planeswalkers, but she also extremely afraid of of dying (most people she killed, her deals with the demons and Bolas, leaving her "friends" behind in Amonkher) she did all of those thing to survive, not just that but she doesn't feel enough empathy to be part of a group of people who wants to protect those who can't protect themselves, remember when she forced Thalia to destroy the Hellvault? do you think she cared about the thousand who probably died because all of those demons were set free ? Liliana is a survivor she will do what she has to to live.
Now imagine this: If she made a sacrifice (a leg an arm,her powers maybe even her life) then an entire plane will be saved, if she doesn't do anything an entire world dies, but she won't lose anything, she won't lose any of the things i mentioned above, she won't lose any friends (Jace) which one do you honestly think she would choose?
The fact is, Liliana has absolutely no reason to be a part of the Gatewatch other then being powerful, if they want a black walker on the Gatewatch, they have Vraska and Sorin, Sorin doesn't look like a fit, but i can see him giving his life if he knew for sure that his death would be for the greater good of the multiver and of course of Innistrad, Vraska on the other hand woudn't fight for people who can't fight for themselves, but she would teach them how to fight, if they don't see a reason why to use Sorin or Vraska, the can always create another walker to fill the role of black planeswalker.
Dominaria is the nexus of the Multiverse right ? ''The source of everything''
With so much story there it's obvious very powerful characters will be waiting there.
When it comes to Liliana, Razaketh used a hidden clause in their contract manage to gain control over Liliana. Also remember then when she killed Kothophed, the first demon she killed, Kothophed told her that killing him would not give her what she seeks. Adding to that Nicol Bolas is the one that redirected her to those 4 demons for the ''deal''. Possibly because he wanted her as a future servant.
Knowing Bolas, he would know better. There must be something in her contract that even by killing all 4 demons will not free her. Something she clearly is not aware of. Bolas could have corrupted or kill her before but didn't, maybe because he knows ultimately she is bound to serve him ? Maybe the contract, since performed by 4 demons serving Bolas was signed not by/only them but Bolas aswell ? Maybe he is the one who created such ''spell'' a contract spell that a black mana user can do and when done bounds servitude to Bolas ?
I don't know but i don't really think Liliana will be set free.
It's also interesting that Ajani and Garruk's (2 of the strongest planeswalkers lore wise) whereabouts are unknown. Unless Ajani is indeed waiting for them in Dominaria.
Garruk is heading somewhere unknown to us, slowly becoming a demon.
Lastly i find it interesting that Bolas is going to Ravnica. House to Niv-Mizzet. Either Bolas wants to stop Mizzet waking his planeswalker spark as he sees him as a threat if he later decides to join the Gatewatch OR and personally this is what i like to think, Niv-Mizzet is actually the right hand to Nicol Bolas. Will Bolas ignite his planeswalker spark ? Bolas is ruthless, yes, but he is also incredibly smart. He knows having pawns such as Tezzeret is good but risky as their loyalty comes from his influence. Having a right hand such Niv-Mizzet, someone who actually wants Bolas to succeed, maybe in the promise of power and knowledge beyond comprehension ? I don't know but it will be interesting to see what interaction they'll have. Both of them are ancient smart narcissistic dragons, Niv-Mizzet would make a great right hand for Bolas.
Its unlikely that Niv works for Bolas. We know Niv doesn't know about walkers and the fact that Ral is working directly under Bolas as opposed to being ordered to work on something by Niv that is of Bolas' design indicates that Niv is not a part of it. Also the fact that theyre both hyper-intelligent, narcissists is exactly the reason that Niv would make a poor right hand man to Bolas. I mean look at Tezz. He only works for Bolas, at this point at least, because he is physically bound to doing so. And he's probably not a quarter the brain or a tenth the ego of Niv.
Either Bolas wants Ravnica for its high planeswalker traffic or something special about the plane itself. This may or may not have to do with the plan that creative scrapped for RTR that would have moved Ravnica into the center of the multiverse, unseating Dominaria.
Ravnica is known for it's Law Magic, as far as i know law magic isn't something you see everyday in the multiverse and yet, Ravnica is filled with people who can use it for example Teysa and almost every single person that is part of the Azorious, maybe Bolas wants to use law magic to create/destroy something.
Very convenient for Belzenlok to be here, especially since both Liliana and the Raven Man are tied to Dominaria in some way.
Yeah, I think it's been pretty clear Dominaria would be Liliana focused, and given that she has a last demon outstanding, it made sense.
Nicol Bolas is going to Ravnica, given the fact that she works for him it's very likely she's going there as well, there is nothing that indicates that she's going to Dominaria other then the fact that she was born there.
That, and the writer herself confirmed it, and Liliana's last demon is there. Also, that's where the Raven Man first appeared to her, and we still don't know who he is.
Unless you meant before all of what was revealed this week was revealed.
Yeah, if you want to take their word for it feel free, just remember that those are the ssame people who "confirmed" Edgar Markov created the vampires for selfish reasons and not to save his people, those are the same people who "confirmed" Huatli left Ixalan to travel with Angrath when she actually went to Kaladesh were she became friends with i forgot her name (sorry), and what i think is the most important part, the last time we saw Liliana the Gatewatch was either pissed with her or wanted her dead (remember when she betrayed them to go with Bolas just so she could save her skin? yeah), so if you want to take their word for it, be my guest, but i'm not stupid enough to do that again.
Very convenient for Belzenlok to be here, especially since both Liliana and the Raven Man are tied to Dominaria in some way.
Yeah, I think it's been pretty clear Dominaria would be Liliana focused, and given that she has a last demon outstanding, it made sense.
Nicol Bolas is going to Ravnica, given the fact that she works for him it's very likely she's going there as well, there is nothing that indicates that she's going to Dominaria other then the fact that she was born there.
Now if we look at the mechanics in the game you could use the CMC as an indication of Theros, but there's also many GW token cards and UG +1/+1 counters in standard right now, and they can be used as indication of Ravnica just as much as CMC can be used as indication of Theros.
IMO we should wait until we get to the finish line of dominaria's story, by then we should get an idead of where we're heading, i think Ravnica is the most likely of the options but like i said, with the right twist we could end up on Theros, and there's also the rumor of New Phyrexia based on Karn's speech on the trailer for Dominaria.
Getting two in the same week got me confused.
You know me xD.
I didn't hated it though, i liked what they did with Chandra and Nissa, and i wont deny, the Jhoira section waz amazing, when she said "Weatherlight" i got excited.
I just can't handle Liliana.
Also i thought it was really cool how Liliana described Nissa leaving in a "rage" state and Chandra wnet out to "find herself" it seems to me like everyone is changing exepct Liliana, even Gideon now understands that he's being used by Liliana so he is using her as well.
Ugin doesn't throw people away, he simply look the other way, Bolas kills or destroys things, people and worlds he has no use for.
Sure, there are a few plot hooks left, guess which other planes also have plot hooks, Amonkhet, New Phyrexia, Innistrad, and many more the only difference between these planes and Ixalan is that they are actually interesting.
And you're right Azor can't interact with anyone, but do you really thing he is going to sit around Useless Island doing nothing?.
Anyone that know anything about laws knows very well they are filled with holes that can be exploited, and Azor is the guy who literally created the entire legal systems of many worlds.
But what actually pissed me off about this thread (which led to my comments) is the fact that we just got out of Ixalan, if you want to talk about this, wait a few years will ya'
I get what you're saying, but here's the thing, Liliana isn't just a very powerful planeswalkers, but she also extremely afraid of of dying (most people she killed, her deals with the demons and Bolas, leaving her "friends" behind in Amonkher) she did all of those thing to survive, not just that but she doesn't feel enough empathy to be part of a group of people who wants to protect those who can't protect themselves, remember when she forced Thalia to destroy the Hellvault? do you think she cared about the thousand who probably died because all of those demons were set free ? Liliana is a survivor she will do what she has to to live.
Now imagine this: If she made a sacrifice (a leg an arm,her powers maybe even her life) then an entire plane will be saved, if she doesn't do anything an entire world dies, but she won't lose anything, she won't lose any of the things i mentioned above, she won't lose any friends (Jace) which one do you honestly think she would choose?
The fact is, Liliana has absolutely no reason to be a part of the Gatewatch other then being powerful, if they want a black walker on the Gatewatch, they have Vraska and Sorin, Sorin doesn't look like a fit, but i can see him giving his life if he knew for sure that his death would be for the greater good of the multiver and of course of Innistrad, Vraska on the other hand woudn't fight for people who can't fight for themselves, but she would teach them how to fight, if they don't see a reason why to use Sorin or Vraska, the can always create another walker to fill the role of black planeswalker.
Ravnica is known for it's Law Magic, as far as i know law magic isn't something you see everyday in the multiverse and yet, Ravnica is filled with people who can use it for example Teysa and almost every single person that is part of the Azorious, maybe Bolas wants to use law magic to create/destroy something.
Or maybe i'm just talking crap (i do that often.
If they're okay with giving away sparks, they should have given Azor his spark back as well.
Yeah, if you want to take their word for it feel free, just remember that those are the ssame people who "confirmed" Edgar Markov created the vampires for selfish reasons and not to save his people, those are the same people who "confirmed" Huatli left Ixalan to travel with Angrath when she actually went to Kaladesh were she became friends with i forgot her name (sorry), and what i think is the most important part, the last time we saw Liliana the Gatewatch was either pissed with her or wanted her dead (remember when she betrayed them to go with Bolas just so she could save her skin? yeah), so if you want to take their word for it, be my guest, but i'm not stupid enough to do that again.
Nicol Bolas is going to Ravnica, given the fact that she works for him it's very likely she's going there as well, there is nothing that indicates that she's going to Dominaria other then the fact that she was born there.