Kaba, just claim scum and get over it. Please enlighten me on how checking if someone gets it up is even remotely related to the game of mafia.
Wait what? Did you think I said "get it up" as in get an erection? lmao
"Get up" meaning if they performed a night action. Have you never seen the role prostitute before? Basically, I'm just told if the target acted that night, but not any details about what they did, who they targeted, etc.
Kaba, why didnt you target anyone either of the nights?
Night 1 I was worried I would be betrayed because I wasn't very active (I only start with 3 BP btw)so betrayal and acting would leave me at 1, unable to act and also prone to death by betrayal the next nght. Decided not to use it
Night 2 I wasn't here
@Joe I don't know what to tell you lol apparently my feminine charms transcends gender and species
@Joe Terry
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
It's also weird that his ability passes by betrayal. Why would someone betray a first responder and take his job? Does that make sense with the flavor?
Also, that means scum could get his role right? Not only does that mean his role could just as easily be scum (because scum can get it anyway), but also allowing scum to have a role that punishes town for lynching them is bastard isn't it? At least I think so. Since most of us agree that Phoenix's role helps town, it would be bad taste to put it in the hands of scum.
@KJ Yes, Coroner is an uncommon role. Passive coroner is pretty much unheard of as far as I know. Furthermore, typically a coroner has to pick his target so he would only get one reveal a night. Phoenix's role gets all of them and the lynch as well, while the Coroner would typically have to use his Night Action to get a flip. Also because it's a passive, I don't think you can role block it (like you can't roleblock Bulletproof) though I could be mistaken.
So his role is a lot stronger than your typical Coroner, and apparently Bur has never used a No Reveal setup before. So there are a lot of assumptions to be made in order for Phoenix to be Town. What I mean by "how does it seem legit?" is that all there really is to support his claim is that he said it. There's no precedent for this role. There is however countless examples of scum being tracked to the night kill. That's why it's the simplest explanation.
At least you do seem to be thinking about this clearly. At first I thought you were just blindly defending him but I'm starting to see a real thought process behind it now.
@Tom: And I'm saying you don't have enough info to conclude that he is scum by reason of commiting the nightkill. There is not enough info to accurately come to that conclusion. He's felt pretty townie and his role seems legit.Throwing your arms up and saying "Well he must be scum then" while ignoring that is mostly where my issue lies here.
Why do you think his role "seems legit"? You said you've never seen anything like it. No one else has either. History points to Bur usually posting flips. What exactly about his role seems legit?
I'm not saying he is definitely lying, but I want to know what gives you confidence he's telling the truth.
If Phoenix is indeed scum than KJ is almost definitely scum with him. Trying to argue that Occam's Razor doesn't point to Phoenix killing DV is ludicrous.
Phoenix was tracked to a dead DV. What are the explanations for this?
A) He killed DV
B) He has some crazy role no one has seen before where he passively visits every night kill victim
I don't see an issue with multiple protection claims because of the BP aspect in this game. Even if Dawn, Shin, and Az are all telling the truth, it's not like they can act every night due to the BP costs (for Shin and Az) or the thresholds Dawn has to be at. So maybe there are an abundance of roles to make up for the limited uses? Besides, we don't know what kind of powerful roles scum might have.
Regardless lynching the claimed doctor is a terrible idea. At least give him one night phase and if he's still alive re-evaluate. I don't think Azreal has been scummy anyway and I have thought the lynch was bad from the beginning. There's no need for scum to put as much effort into scumhunting and figuring out the game as he has.
To be clear I don't think Phoenix is the lynch today. The whole scum team is still alive and his role is too valuable if he's telling the truth. But I do think it's important to discuss it
@Phoenix, if multiple people die at night, would you be tracked to all of them? Also, when did you visit Grapefruit to get his role info? Or do you only visit the dead players, and if so would lynches still provide role info but not Night Kills?
We could test this is Jenna tracks him again, DBS shoots someone, and there's a Mafia kill. In this case, Phoenix should be tracked to both, right? If not, he's lying. This would be hard to pull off depending on what powers scum has but if we can it should prove Phoenix one way or the other
It doesnt matter when they die, or even if their mod killed, as long as phoenix is alive, he gets the information for us... he visited grapefruit as soon as he was lynched...
First of all Dawn still cant shoot anyone, is this some kind of slip? Why are you focused on proving phoenix? did you ever even think he was scummy?
Jenna didn't track him to Grapefruit though, so it's weird. If Dawn can't shoot right now then I misunderstood. I'm not sure how you can see that as a slip. Or would you call when you misunderstood that Iso was claiming vig when he already retracted it a slip too?
Phoenix's role is very convenient so I'm suspicious of it. I wasn't reading him as scum, but how everything went down with the track is not a good look.
@Phoenix, if multiple people die at night, would you be tracked to all of them? Also, when did you visit Grapefruit to get his role info? Or do you only visit the dead players, and if so would lynches still provide role info but not Night Kills?
We could test this is Jenna tracks him again, DBS shoots someone, and there's a Mafia kill. In this case, Phoenix should be tracked to both, right? If not, he's lying. This would be hard to pull off depending on what powers scum has but if we can it should prove Phoenix one way or the other
My point is that he didn't use his ability because he was skeptical of everyone, despite townreading you really hard. and his gift ability is really helpful for someone with a threshold ability such as yours, so it doesn't make sense for him to not use it.
There are no guarantees in Mafia obviously, so I just have to go with my strongest read!
I totally agree with you that pressuring other players is a good strategy! On the other hand, we can't let Whisp fall off the radar completely, so we have to keep that balance. I like your response overall though and I'm pretty sold on you as Town at this point.
my ability would not help Dawn, maybe shin? And I don't think I ever said he was a hard town read, and I'm sorry if I didn't notice him say he also had a threshold ability throughout being attacked day 1. Why do your posts sound like ur just starting to get into the game? Lol like ur we're no existent day 1 and you are gunna tell me I am scummy? Ok...
I really don't know how you could miss Dawn claiming the threshold when it was a big deal and you commented on it. Same thing that happened with Iso's retracted claim too. But anyway...
I AM just starting to get into the game because I replaced in halfway through Day 1 and spent the second half catching up! Not only were there a lot of posts already when I got here, but the thread was still moving really fast and I didn't have a ton of time. So yeah I finally got caught up during the Night phase
what??? I know dawn has a threshold, I thought u were talking about shin...
My mistake, I thought you meant that you didn't know about Dawn's threshold. Not noticing Shin's is understandable (in fact I may even be wrong)
I don't see scum Azreal at all. He's put in a lot of effort and all of his reads have made sense to me except his LW read, which I don't really get. I mean yeah he lead a mislynch on GF but that happens. I don't really see any other marks against him
Wait what? Did you think I said "get it up" as in get an erection? lmao
"Get up" meaning if they performed a night action. Have you never seen the role prostitute before? Basically, I'm just told if the target acted that night, but not any details about what they did, who they targeted, etc.
Night 1 I was worried I would be betrayed because I wasn't very active (I only start with 3 BP btw)so betrayal and acting would leave me at 1, unable to act and also prone to death by betrayal the next nght. Decided not to use it
Night 2 I wasn't here
@Joe I don't know what to tell you lol apparently my feminine charms transcends gender and species
Nothing. I didn't have access to the forum so I couldn't even submit an action!
I guess a claim is in order. I am Lotus, Town Prostitute. For 1 BP I can target someone and see if they get up at night. I haven't acted yet
Now what did I miss
If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.
If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.
This leads me to two theories:
Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips
Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win
either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's
Also he betrayed me
Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry
I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!
Also, that means scum could get his role right? Not only does that mean his role could just as easily be scum (because scum can get it anyway), but also allowing scum to have a role that punishes town for lynching them is bastard isn't it? At least I think so. Since most of us agree that Phoenix's role helps town, it would be bad taste to put it in the hands of scum.
Am I crazy here or does that seem unfair?
So his role is a lot stronger than your typical Coroner, and apparently Bur has never used a No Reveal setup before. So there are a lot of assumptions to be made in order for Phoenix to be Town. What I mean by "how does it seem legit?" is that all there really is to support his claim is that he said it. There's no precedent for this role. There is however countless examples of scum being tracked to the night kill. That's why it's the simplest explanation.
At least you do seem to be thinking about this clearly. At first I thought you were just blindly defending him but I'm starting to see a real thought process behind it now.
Why do you think his role "seems legit"? You said you've never seen anything like it. No one else has either. History points to Bur usually posting flips. What exactly about his role seems legit?
I'm not saying he is definitely lying, but I want to know what gives you confidence he's telling the truth.
Phoenix was tracked to a dead DV. What are the explanations for this?
A) He killed DV
B) He has some crazy role no one has seen before where he passively visits every night kill victim
One of these is clearly simpler than the other
Regardless lynching the claimed doctor is a terrible idea. At least give him one night phase and if he's still alive re-evaluate. I don't think Azreal has been scummy anyway and I have thought the lynch was bad from the beginning. There's no need for scum to put as much effort into scumhunting and figuring out the game as he has.
Jenna didn't track him to Grapefruit though, so it's weird. If Dawn can't shoot right now then I misunderstood. I'm not sure how you can see that as a slip. Or would you call when you misunderstood that Iso was claiming vig when he already retracted it a slip too?
Phoenix's role is very convenient so I'm suspicious of it. I wasn't reading him as scum, but how everything went down with the track is not a good look.
We could test this is Jenna tracks him again, DBS shoots someone, and there's a Mafia kill. In this case, Phoenix should be tracked to both, right? If not, he's lying. This would be hard to pull off depending on what powers scum has but if we can it should prove Phoenix one way or the other
My mistake, I thought you meant that you didn't know about Dawn's threshold. Not noticing Shin's is understandable (in fact I may even be wrong)