Hi everyone!
I'm looking for the 3/1 black and red Graveborn creature token with haste created by Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper.
This card was printed in Coldsnap and Commander 2013 Edition, is there such token in these two products?
If not I might hav to DIY for myself.
Thank you in advance for the reply!
All right, to all the gentlemen who have replied in this post:
I have now established a better understanding of the ruling issues surronding the scenario I encountered with your much needed help, so thank you a lot!:sunny:
And now this post could be closed.
Didn't saw your post when I replied those three gentlemen, but still, thank you for your reply!
You did get my point, I felt very awkward at the event when the op just look straight into my eyes and remained slient. I am those kind of guy who likes to annnounce triggers I control as clearly as possible so when that happened I was super confused and had no clue of what I should do. But this thread had answered that quite nicely.
Could OP offer to pass priority until the the last priority before Colossus resolves?
As a shortcut this should force the colossus player to interrupt the shortcut with any/all invisible triggers they wanted to take action on without relinquishing the ability to counter the colossus and also leaving ambiguous how many(if any) invisible triggers may be on the stack.
To propose a shortcut, a player must "describ[e] a sequence of game choices, for all players, that may be legally taken", including, in this scenario, choices involved when Sanctum of Ugin's ability resolves (for instance, whether the opponent will sacrifice Sanctum of Ugin for that ability) (C.R. 719.2a). Here, the shortcut ends at the opponent having priority, while Metalwork Colossus is on the top of the stack (C.R. 719.2a). To shorten such a shortcut, a player (other than the proposing player) need name only one "place where he or she will make a game choice that's different than what's been proposed" (for example, in this scenario, a different choice from the proposed choice of whether to sacrifice Sanctum of Ugin) (C.R. 719.2b), and that is enough to shorten the shortcut to that point (C.R. 719.2c).
Could OP offer to pass priority until the the last priority before Colossus resolves?
As a shortcut this should force the colossus player to interrupt the shortcut with any/all invisible triggers they wanted to take action on without relinquishing the ability to counter the colossus and also leaving ambiguous how many(if any) invisible triggers may be on the stack.
Likewise, if the colossus player announced their spell and the OP were to ask "Any triggers before it resolves?" the colossus player would be required to acknowledged the invisible triggers or miss them and OP should still have a chance to counter, right?
Peteroupc perfectly answered "(1) Whether the ruling is correct"
As for "(2) If I again encounter similar situation in a competitive match, how should I approach this?"
Unfortunately the only way for you to ensure that you are acting after the Sanctum abilities have been missed is to specifically ask if they resolve. While it is your best interests to act after the ability has been missed the rules can't assume you are always making the best play, or they would assume your opponent didn't miss the trigger either. Specifically the only way for you to get your opponent to move past the point where they have to make a choice on the Sanctum's trigger is if the Colossus has resolved and is on the battlefield, this is a point where the Sanctum's ability would have had a visible effect on the game, as in they would have been sac'd. So you can't try to trick your opponent into missing the triggers unless you are also letting the Colossus resolve. If you do go this route you will be given the option of counter the original colossus if they choose to use a Sanctum.
To peteroupc, user_938036 and Zauzich:
Thank you for replying the thread! Your replies combined, answered my questions quite nicely.
And to peteroupc: I would like to ask one more thing about the shortcut. In this scenario, as the inactive player, can I make such a shortcut like "I would like to pass all priority until the only spell or ability on the stack is the colossus itself, no matter how you choose to resolve all sanctum triggers." ? (I am not 100% sure I perceived your post #5 correctly.)
Here is a ruling problem I encountered during the latest gameday.
Anyone providing a answer is appreciated.
So my opponent was playing a deck with Sanctum of Ugin and Metalwork Colossus. He had several copies of Sanctum of Ugin in play and casted a Metalwork Colossus from hand. I was playing a control deck with counterspells, lets say all my spells were Cancel since it does not matter. Upon casting the creature spell he just looked at me without saying anything and no indication of the Sanctum of Ugin triggers. I countered the spell and he proceeded to say he would like to sac the Sanctum of Ugin and find another Metalwork Colossus. Then he did the same again, I countered the creature and he announced that he would like to sac another Sanctum of Ugin.
I felt totally screwed because imo as a control player I would defintely wait until he resolve all the Sanctum of Ugin triggers above the creature spell and decide whether to counter the actual creature. But the way he did it he put me in a tough spot because I wouldn't like to say anything also in case he did miss the trigger then the game would become two players staring at each other. I personally think this is kind of a miss trigger by him since he did not announced them by whichever way he could. The head judge at that event, who was a new judge mentored by a local L2(who was not present), searched the comprehensive rules, ruled in my opponent's favor since the trigger do not have a "visable effect" on the game. (Dunno if it is the exact wording in the comprehensive rules since im not a native english speaker).
I would like to know:(1) Whether the ruling is correct. (2) If I again encounter similar situation in a competitive match, how should I approach this?
Thank you for your reading, I know this is a long thread so your answer is, again, highly appreciated!
Anyway, thanks for the reply!
I'm looking for the 3/1 black and red Graveborn creature token with haste created by Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper.
This card was printed in Coldsnap and Commander 2013 Edition, is there such token in these two products?
If not I might hav to DIY for myself.
Thank you in advance for the reply!
I have now established a better understanding of the ruling issues surronding the scenario I encountered with your much needed help, so thank you a lot!:sunny:
And now this post could be closed.
And also, what is M.T.R to be exact? Never heard of that.
You did get my point, I felt very awkward at the event when the op just look straight into my eyes and remained slient. I am those kind of guy who likes to annnounce triggers I control as clearly as possible so when that happened I was super confused and had no clue of what I should do. But this thread had answered that quite nicely.
To peteroupc, user_938036 and Zauzich:
Thank you for replying the thread! Your replies combined, answered my questions quite nicely.
And to peteroupc: I would like to ask one more thing about the shortcut. In this scenario, as the inactive player, can I make such a shortcut like "I would like to pass all priority until the only spell or ability on the stack is the colossus itself, no matter how you choose to resolve all sanctum triggers." ? (I am not 100% sure I perceived your post #5 correctly.)
Anyone providing a answer is appreciated.
So my opponent was playing a deck with Sanctum of Ugin and Metalwork Colossus. He had several copies of Sanctum of Ugin in play and casted a Metalwork Colossus from hand. I was playing a control deck with counterspells, lets say all my spells were Cancel since it does not matter. Upon casting the creature spell he just looked at me without saying anything and no indication of the Sanctum of Ugin triggers. I countered the spell and he proceeded to say he would like to sac the Sanctum of Ugin and find another Metalwork Colossus. Then he did the same again, I countered the creature and he announced that he would like to sac another Sanctum of Ugin.
I felt totally screwed because imo as a control player I would defintely wait until he resolve all the Sanctum of Ugin triggers above the creature spell and decide whether to counter the actual creature. But the way he did it he put me in a tough spot because I wouldn't like to say anything also in case he did miss the trigger then the game would become two players staring at each other. I personally think this is kind of a miss trigger by him since he did not announced them by whichever way he could. The head judge at that event, who was a new judge mentored by a local L2(who was not present), searched the comprehensive rules, ruled in my opponent's favor since the trigger do not have a "visable effect" on the game. (Dunno if it is the exact wording in the comprehensive rules since im not a native english speaker).
I would like to know:(1) Whether the ruling is correct. (2) If I again encounter similar situation in a competitive match, how should I approach this?
Thank you for your reading, I know this is a long thread so your answer is, again, highly appreciated!