Hey all! I just finished my E & T deck and I've been playing around with different sideboard tech.
I'm curious as to why we don't run Kitchen Finks in the sideboard. Obviously, Finks is great vs. Burn, but it helps us in a lot of other matchups too. It's a creature, so it won't be slowed down by our Thalias. Extra ETB effects with Flickerwisps and Displacers sounds like it fits perfectly into our gameplan, especially when it removes the counter off of it. I guess 2 white mana could potentially be tricky, but we can also Vial it in. I can't really see any major downsides. Is there a reason the 'burn answers' in everyone's boards are Blessed Alliance or Kor Firewalker over this?
@deathandcatmix Oh okay. Are you well known or something? I'm new to the deck so I just wanted input. Nobody has replied to my posts so far so I'm not getting any good feedback on stuff. Sorry...
So a buddy of mine was at a PPTQ yesterday and faced a guy playing BW Eldrazi & Taxes with some Lingering Souls in it. Kind of sparked my curiosity. What's your opinions on putting 1-2 in where our flex spots are? I feel like it does fit into the deck alright. No real drawbacks except for maybe competing with our other 3 drops. But at that point I feel like you're playing more midrange Eldrazi almost so idk. Thoughts?
Hey all! So I've been thinking of building into a Death and Taxes Deck for a little while now. Problem is I can't seem to decide which variation I'd want to use. I was leaning towards B/W Eldrazi & Taxes but I'm not entirely sure. Could anyone give a basic rundown on how the different variations work with the current meta? Or rather the pros and cons of the different kinds?
Any feedback to help me get into the deck would be appreciated : )
Hey there! So I finally added a Gideon, Ally of Zendikar to my build last week. So now I'm sitting on 2 Sorrin/1 Liliana/1 Gideon. Seems like a good combination so far.
So I'd like to ask you if you guys can give some general advice on how to use him properly. When's the best time to use which of his abilities? What should I look out for that can get rid of him? When should I side him out? Etc.
Yeah I can't stress how much I love Runed Halo. It's a personal favorite of mine. It's just so versatile. Unfortunately, I'd say the downside of it is that it requires you to have knowledge of your opponents deck or just matchups in general. I'm still learning myself what matchups it works in. Not a card that will help a beginner with little matchup experience. My advice don't throw down money for these until you do your homework. But generally, bringing it in vs combo decks or decks with 2-3 big threats tops is pretty good. But yeah, knowing what those combo pieces/threats are beforehand will get you more mileage
Side note- I play against Grixis Death's Shadow a ton (surprise) because two of my good buddies play the deck. Landing a Runed Halo naming Death's Shadow is a real fun time lol
While I'm liking the idea of splashing green and using Driven // Despair in this deck, I'm still a bit skeptical. It does seem to have decent synergy with our deck and the mana cost is low enough. But is the extra color worth the payoff over something else? It does seem like it might be a bit of a winmoar card. You'd need to establish a board first before you get any use out of it. Which means, best case scenario, we T3 Spectral Procession into this on T4 to get the most out of it. Or at least that's how I see it. We struggle more against decks that hit fast and hard. Is getting card advantage by turn 4+ really gonna help us in those matchups? Don't get me wrong, the idea of swinging in with 3 spirits and having your opponent discard 3 cards is enough to make anyone moist. But eh I'm not totally sold on it helping us much outside the few control decks still around. Which we mostly have comfortable matchups vs anyway.
But I would love to see how you guys do with testing it out. It would be fun to add to a deck regardless.
Anyways, I was wondering about people's opinions on how best to speed up the deck's clock. I run a 3/2 Bitterblossom/RtA split and am thinking more and more that I should max out RtA because there are so many matchups in my meta (Tron, Ad Nauseum, Taking Turns, Elves, Eldrazi, Valakut, hell I even played against a Starfield of Nyx prison deck) where I'm racing as fast as possible to kill my opponent before they inevitably take over the game. Is there anything else I can do to put down more pressure early, or is Tokens doomed to be a slow deck no matter what?
I'm also curious about this. I've recently gone to a more control build with no more RtA, extra hand disruption, 1 Liliana of the Veil, and 3 BB and I'm not sure if it's gonna be better in the long run or not. I have yet to test it at my local FNM yet though because stuff keeps popping up. Fast combo decks, or just most fast decks in general seem to be our weakness. Is it worth having more speed in the deck, if not just for these kind of matchups? I really do like the more control style, but is it weaker in the current meta?
Although I would recommend going up to 23-24, it also must be noted that your mana base needs to be altered, not just added 2. You want 3 white on 3 for Spectral, so Swamps and Ghost Quarters early game are bad. Ghost quarter in the main is your enemy, and you should only run 1x Swamp. Polluted Delta is horrible. , Unless you're fetching for a dual, you're getting a swamp. You either take the 3 lifeloss to fetch an untapped dual, even when you already have one, or you fetch a swamp, which slows you down on your "3 white by turn 3" plan. Simply put, no non-white fetches, and no more than 2 non-white lands - a single swamp, to respond to Path or Ghost Quarter, and fetch against blood moon, and a Vault of the Archangel. You also want 3 plains, for the same "blood moon" reason, to allow Spectral to be cast for 3.
I think the consensus is that 2 GQs are mandatory for any Tron heavy meta. I agree that missing a turn 3 Spectral Procession can be pretty bad, but I don't think it warrants having no GQ whatsoever. It's definitely not a card that should be excluded so easily. Plus, we are still a 2 color deck. Some slight flexibility with our lands should not be as crippling for us as you're making it seem.
Also, if you're running Liliana, like some are, 2x Swamp is a given.
I'm finding that the Raise the Alarms have been grossly underwhelming for me. At best I will pop one late game if I absolutely need to block something big, but I rarely get more mileage than that. I never really feel the urgent need to play them. Also, I'm finding that I'm having mana problems a little too often. I realize I'm sitting at 22 lands so I think bumping myself up will hopefully fix it. I'm thinking of taking out the Raise the Alarms for a Fetid Heath and another Inquisition or Zealous.
Also very interested in adding a Liliana of the Veil somewhere. Maybe taking out a Timely for it? What do you guys think?
I disagree with GQ in the board. 2 GQ main in a list running 23-24 land with 2-3 colorless sources max doesn't hurt consistency much and saves sideboard slots for other cards. Additionally GQ is extremely helpful against Merfolk by answering Spreading Seas, in addition to the other more obvious matchups like Tron.
Yeah I agree with you completely. I was whiffing my turn 3 Spectrals a lot because I would open with a GQ or a Vault of the Archangel, but that was at 22 lands. Bumping up to 23 should hopefully fix that. They just seem like a waste in the sideboard when those two slots could be something more versatile. Right now my meta is pretty diverse, but if I had to say what's most prominent it would be Death's Shadow and Tron. DS is fine for me to deal with ,but keeping the GQs main feels almost mandatory if you even want a chance at beating Tron.
I'm finding that the Raise the Alarms have been grossly underwhelming for me. At best I will pop one late game if I absolutely need to block something big, but I rarely get more mileage than that. I never really feel the urgent need to play them. Also, I'm finding that I'm having mana problems a little too often. I realize I'm sitting at 22 lands so I think bumping myself up will hopefully fix it. I'm thinking of taking out the Raise the Alarms for a Fetid Heath and another Inquisition or Zealous.
Also very interested in adding a Liliana of the Veil somewhere. Maybe taking out a Timely for it? What do you guys think?
23 land seem to be the consensus for the number of lands we run. some run 24 when they start running a few more planeswalker like Gideon, ally of zendikar. Also, the more lands you have, the better your Secure the wastes will be. I definitely recommend you go to at least to 23 lands. I'd also check on changing that Polluted Delta for a fetch that goes for white. When we fetch for a basic, we rarely go for a swamp.
Now if you are to take out the Raise the Alarm, you could easily just replace them with a lili and a plain and call it a day. I'd actually play that list. Like I'm not sure I'd run a pair of Secure the Wastes (I'd probably run a single), but otherwise your list seem pretty much spot on. That sideboard is just right too.
Thanks! Yeah chaning the Polluted Delta seems like an obvious fix. I'll get on that. Another Plains would be good instead of the Fetid Heath probably (for that surprise Blood Moon lol).
Secure the Wastes is a personal favorite of mine. I just like having a few instant speed token generators. It does feel good to bring out 5 guys at my opponents end step to swing in with on my next turn. Also, in the Tron matchup, I think it may be one of our best cards pre-sideboard. But that's not saying much at all...
I'm finding that the Raise the Alarms have been grossly underwhelming for me. At best I will pop one late game if I absolutely need to block something big, but I rarely get more mileage than that. I never really feel the urgent need to play them. Also, I'm finding that I'm having mana problems a little too often. I realize I'm sitting at 22 lands so I think bumping myself up will hopefully fix it. I'm thinking of taking out the Raise the Alarms for a Fetid Heath and another Inquisition or Zealous.
Also very interested in adding a Liliana of the Veil somewhere. Maybe taking out a Timely for it? What do you guys think?
I'd go as far as saying that Fatal Push has essentially locked the flex spots in our list. Not only does it replace both Dismember and Cut, but it also means we should drop a plains, and put in 3 Auriok Champions. Not only does it survive the new Tier 1 removal spell, but it stops the decks it enables. Grixis Delver, Grixis Control, and Grixis Death Shadow are all dominant decks in the format, and the ability to repeatedly block a Tasigur or Deaths Shadow, along with the removal to make sure they never have more Shadows than we have Aurioks, means we can basically lock them into being unable to deal combat damage. Wait until Grixis taps out and can't Spell Snare, and resolve an Auriok Champion, and you basically turn the clock. I also think this locks our 2 drop spot, although not as hard. I know most people run either 4 Bitterblossom, or 4 Raise, but I've been experimenting with 1 BB, 3 Raise. The theory being that seeing an early game raise can get ceatures out faster fo blockes against aggro, but that Bitterblossom is better in grindier matchups, so I want to have it in mainboard. With Grixis both having creatures that need to be blocked, and the potential for long-game, I feel a mix of both is even more beneficial now. I think that with the current state of Modern, this may be the best meta for Tokens in a while, although now, we have less flexibility with the build, as I feel like Aurioks are the biggest advantage we have.
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with Auriok Champion being essential lock as our 2 drop in the deck, even vs. Grixis. Our matchup is already pretty favorable. We brush off most spot removal while having access to plenty of our own to deal with their big threats. Our tokens can also easily block any Death Shadows or Tasigurs for days even if we absolutely can't get rid of them. If we're being honest, Death's Shadow is the variant you're gonna see most at the moment, and Auriok doesn't given us that much of a ledge against it. Yeah blocking them indefinitely is cool, but with the above mentioned I don't think you should need her for that. Plus she competes for our 2 drop too harshly, being 2 white to cast.
She's a great card, and I think running 2 in your main is fine depending on your meta/deck build, but she shouldn't be run main as an answer to Grixis imo.
Alternatively, I've been running 2 Runed Halos in my sideboard and they pretty much produce the same effect vs. any Death's Shadow
I'm curious as to why we don't run Kitchen Finks in the sideboard. Obviously, Finks is great vs. Burn, but it helps us in a lot of other matchups too. It's a creature, so it won't be slowed down by our Thalias. Extra ETB effects with Flickerwisps and Displacers sounds like it fits perfectly into our gameplan, especially when it removes the counter off of it. I guess 2 white mana could potentially be tricky, but we can also Vial it in. I can't really see any major downsides. Is there a reason the 'burn answers' in everyone's boards are Blessed Alliance or Kor Firewalker over this?
So a buddy of mine was at a PPTQ yesterday and faced a guy playing BW Eldrazi & Taxes with some Lingering Souls in it. Kind of sparked my curiosity. What's your opinions on putting 1-2 in where our flex spots are? I feel like it does fit into the deck alright. No real drawbacks except for maybe competing with our other 3 drops. But at that point I feel like you're playing more midrange Eldrazi almost so idk. Thoughts?
Any feedback to help me get into the deck would be appreciated : )
So I'd like to ask you if you guys can give some general advice on how to use him properly. When's the best time to use which of his abilities? What should I look out for that can get rid of him? When should I side him out? Etc.
Side note- I play against Grixis Death's Shadow a ton (surprise) because two of my good buddies play the deck. Landing a Runed Halo naming Death's Shadow is a real fun time lol
But I would love to see how you guys do with testing it out. It would be fun to add to a deck regardless.
I'm also curious about this. I've recently gone to a more control build with no more RtA, extra hand disruption, 1 Liliana of the Veil, and 3 BB and I'm not sure if it's gonna be better in the long run or not. I have yet to test it at my local FNM yet though because stuff keeps popping up. Fast combo decks, or just most fast decks in general seem to be our weakness. Is it worth having more speed in the deck, if not just for these kind of matchups? I really do like the more control style, but is it weaker in the current meta?
I think the consensus is that 2 GQs are mandatory for any Tron heavy meta. I agree that missing a turn 3 Spectral Procession can be pretty bad, but I don't think it warrants having no GQ whatsoever. It's definitely not a card that should be excluded so easily. Plus, we are still a 2 color deck. Some slight flexibility with our lands should not be as crippling for us as you're making it seem.
Also, if you're running Liliana, like some are, 2x Swamp is a given.
Yeah I agree with you completely. I was whiffing my turn 3 Spectrals a lot because I would open with a GQ or a Vault of the Archangel, but that was at 22 lands. Bumping up to 23 should hopefully fix that. They just seem like a waste in the sideboard when those two slots could be something more versatile. Right now my meta is pretty diverse, but if I had to say what's most prominent it would be Death's Shadow and Tron. DS is fine for me to deal with ,but keeping the GQs main feels almost mandatory if you even want a chance at beating Tron.
Thanks! Yeah chaning the Polluted Delta seems like an obvious fix. I'll get on that. Another Plains would be good instead of the Fetid Heath probably (for that surprise Blood Moon lol).
Secure the Wastes is a personal favorite of mine. I just like having a few instant speed token generators. It does feel good to bring out 5 guys at my opponents end step to swing in with on my next turn. Also, in the Tron matchup, I think it may be one of our best cards pre-sideboard. But that's not saying much at all...
4 Concealed Courtyard
3 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Shambling Vent
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
Instants (12)
2 Raise the Alarm
4 Path to Exile
3 Fatal Push
2 Secure the Wastes
1 Zealous Persecution
4 Lingering Souls
4 Spectral Procession
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Collective Brutality
Enchantments (7)
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Bitterblossom
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Runed Halo
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Auriok Champion
2 Stony Silence
2 Sundering Growth
1 Pithing Needle
1 Wrath of God
1 Surgical Extraction
I'm finding that the Raise the Alarms have been grossly underwhelming for me. At best I will pop one late game if I absolutely need to block something big, but I rarely get more mileage than that. I never really feel the urgent need to play them. Also, I'm finding that I'm having mana problems a little too often. I realize I'm sitting at 22 lands so I think bumping myself up will hopefully fix it. I'm thinking of taking out the Raise the Alarms for a Fetid Heath and another Inquisition or Zealous.
Also very interested in adding a Liliana of the Veil somewhere. Maybe taking out a Timely for it? What do you guys think?
I'm gonna have to strongly disagree with Auriok Champion being essential lock as our 2 drop in the deck, even vs. Grixis. Our matchup is already pretty favorable. We brush off most spot removal while having access to plenty of our own to deal with their big threats. Our tokens can also easily block any Death Shadows or Tasigurs for days even if we absolutely can't get rid of them. If we're being honest, Death's Shadow is the variant you're gonna see most at the moment, and Auriok doesn't given us that much of a ledge against it. Yeah blocking them indefinitely is cool, but with the above mentioned I don't think you should need her for that. Plus she competes for our 2 drop too harshly, being 2 white to cast.
She's a great card, and I think running 2 in your main is fine depending on your meta/deck build, but she shouldn't be run main as an answer to Grixis imo.
Alternatively, I've been running 2 Runed Halos in my sideboard and they pretty much produce the same effect vs. any Death's Shadow