Quick report, i decided to try out smuggler's copter in the 2 drop slot. Unfortunately i drew zero during today's tournament, bummer.
Still went 4-0 beating ponza 2-0, hardened scales aggro 2-0, mono red prison 2-1 and dredge 2-1. A lot of the games got closed real quick.
Also made a minor change, now playing with only 3 colorless mana producing lands. 4 was too much.
I did get to play with copter in a game i played for fun with one of my opponents, and it might be what we are looking for until another playable 2 drop spirit (if ever) is printed. The 3/3 stats are nice, gets through 1 or 2 power flying blockers. The loot is awesome, even getting just one or two triggers is huge. Obviously that was just one game but i'll keep you guys posted on further testing this week!
I'm about to test a couple of copters aswell, did you test it any further?
I'm interested in hearing what are you hoping to draw with it and what you're happy to discard.
Which creatures you use to crew?
Let us know some tales about it,I'm listening
Tested the Smuggler's Copter online on xmage and id say it worked well. It helped filter cards early and mid game. it having semi protection by turning into an artifact at end of turn was nice. It put pressure on the opponent and forces them to use removal on it and with Kira, Great Glass Spinner and Selfless Spirit its typically easy to protect when it is a creature. My only issue is that it really is useless without a creature. In some Grixis matches and other decks i faced with super heavy creature removal they made sure I have no creatures to crew it.
All that said I like the concept and also wanted a kind of finisher for the deck that would allow me to put pressure on my opponent and as Geist of Saint Traft is almost perfect for that role it isn't a flier and that has cost me quite a few games because it was easily blocked. Under this understanding I decided to test out Dragonlord Ojutai and I like it so far. Much like Copter it allows filter once the deck is typically running out of steam, it has semi protection and 5 is nice chunk of life. Here is my current deck list. I'll take thoughts and comments.
You'll also notice I'm not using Path to Exile. I really hate giving my opponent lands and where as Cast Out is 3 more expensive, at worst it can be a 1 mana draw card in supplement to Serum Visions or at its best flashable removal which allowed me to successfully get rid of a Emrakul, the Aeons Torn before my opponent was able to attack me with it.
Hi people, i'll make some points on the latest discussion:
. Starting from wraths, i have found myself in situations where 3 x board cleaners would have helped. Engineered explosives is fine, it's selective, which i like and i wouldn't go lower than 2 copies. i would actually bring back in the supreme virdict, but i won't do it since i have found a form of similar effect by playing worship. I'll stay on 2 wide removals and use the rest of the slots as single removals. Dusk//dawn is not the card i am looking for when i think of those matchups that Ketoglutarate mentioned.
. i have tested it ( worship ) , and i am pleased. Game 1 almost no one is prepared to see it, and you may be able to protect it via quellers or wanderers. it did its job and i'm thinking of moving one more copy from the side to the main. my only concern is not to draw a second copy, but still, it's benefits are really large.
I have taken the new Ggideon of the trials in consideration but i don't feel it can be any helpful for the following reasons:
-)we can't protect him. our deck attacks and should never defend
-)double white is a problem expecially on a 3 CMC card
-)worship has a 1x creature on the board condition, gideon's emblem wants gideon on the field, it's too easy to get rid of even in Game 1. this is my opinion
I have talked to a bant spirit guy, he was also playing worship and he confirmed that on game one if he casts it he 's almost certainly the winner of that one game.
This is how i mean to deal with decks rushing me. It really showed its value yesterday when i faced Burn and Affinity. The Jund player i med also told me worship forces him to play focussing on that card and its implications, he felt like his gameplay would have been warped by that cast from me.
And this is also why, answering to @DualityofBeing, i wouldn't run plainwalkers unless they could enter the field and do something really important , as much as Liliana the last hopedoes against our 2/1 creatures when she hits the board.
.@zweiducks: i checked your list, i like your idea overall. I'm not moving towards control that much, i'll do when i'll be splashing black, but still i like the idea. Mana leak is much better than remand in a 30% of the situations i say, yet you draw no card from it, so why wouldn't you sobstitute the 3x Mana tithe and the relic with 4x ancestral visions? you said you can sit comfortably for the fisrt couple of turns, plus you got rid of the 4 vials which are 1CMC drops. i think opening with an ancestral would match your plan.
I'm not dropping Aether vial in my built, but i feel i wuould jump on the ancestral visions if i had no vials and no cantrips.
. regarding shadow of doubt, i still like it and still think being able to stone rain your opponent + drawing is a major tempo advantage you can take. I'm a bit concerned about the double blue mana we must have on second turn, but i'm going to try it once again.
I tried a 2x and dropped it, but yesterday more than ever i have had a demand for more cantrips, i'd like to run a 3x shadows, not just 2x.
So, @zweiducks, please let us know more about episodes when you have casted Shadow with profit and when you would have preferred to have another card. I'm really into this card!
I'll be testing something similar to this list by the way:
(2-3 slots in my side are still to be revised to be honest. i am not sure abut the disenchant, the azorius charm and Kira in particular. I am not siding in Kira enough. if any of you wants to tell me when did they see Kira shining , i'll be gratefull )
I'm very into a Tempo strategy. My biggest concern so far is: does vapor snag fits my intentions better than PtE does ? PtE is by far the best removal, while Snags match my tempo intentions... I will need more playtesting for sure.
Hallowed moonlight, which i was enthusiastic about, hasn't been sided in enough to deserve spots in my side. I need stuff i frequently bring in. Hallowed has been too frequently a dead spor in my side, and as Denis said, creatures are better dealt with removals most of the times.
I have tested nebleghast Herald, and it did its job. I'm siding it out anyway cause i have seen how good is Eidolon of rethorics. When i have it down with vial and 2-3 cards in my hand i feel like i have made a sort of tempo-lock, my opponent has thiny chances to cast the right spell to get out of that stall. I wanna play this tempo-lock combo more frequently. I'll let you know the results!
Sorry for mistakes here and there, cba to read again, gotta go draft Amonkhet
When I tried worship personally it seemed impossible to keep. Maybe its just me but I see to face alot of grixis and other type of controlish/denial/ heavy ceature hate decks that have crap tons of removal and crap tons of board wipes. and usually by the time i can play it those decks normally have a very heavy card advantage via ancestral visions or whatever draw engine they have in the deck. Maybe I'm not siding against these decks properly. Suggestions? also just general question to most of you for example @StreexGeist in your sideboard i see many 1 copy of and 2 copy of. how do you reliably get to your answers in games 2 and 3 with only 1 and 2 copies of a card in a 60 card deck?
I've been trying out something like that after finding the vial version of the deck underwhelming. Merfolk and Death & Taxes just Vial so much better than we do, so why bother trying to force it? Here's what I'm working with:
I went in this direction because I noticed that if I could protect my Spell Quellers, I would probably win the game; and if my Spell Quellers die, my chances of losing go way up. With that in mind, I gave up on Vials and things like Metallic Mimic. I'm content to play a slower game where I sit back for the first few turns and counterspell things or Stone Rain my opponent with Shadow of Doubt (so good!) and then start to slip in Spirits when I have the mana to disrupt my opponent and cast them. I want to flash as much as possible, and put Spell Queller out of reach of removal.
People think Shadow of Doubt is Janky (and it kind of is) but no one expects it. The first time you get someone with it, they will think long and hard every other time they want to fetch. All the following are great on their own, but a single Shadow makes them so much better: Mana Leak, Mana Tithe, Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter. I love this card. Death's Shadow hates it since it also screws up their Traverse and Ranger of Eos.
The 4 cards I see as flexible in the main are the 3x Mana Tithe and the Relic. They're all good when they're good, but it's possible I want a 5th removal spell (1 Condemn main?) and/or something like Serum Visions in these spots. I'm still testing.
Sideboard is still very much up in the air.
The deck isn't perfect, but I'm winning more with it in this meta than I was with the Vial version, and having more fun.
I'm going to test out something similar to your build just simple because I like the aether build but refuse to buy the cards IRL.
Question to the forum has anyone had any luck in U/W using a planeswalker. I feel like they are a great resource that we should have access to. I've been testing Tamiyo, the moon sage and she seems to help with some threats like Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf and I like her draw power but i just wish she could come out a bit sooner or operate a bit more like her sister Tamiyo, Field Researcher. Any recommendations
Has anyone tested worship in their deck?
i am going to try a 2x , one in MB one in the side on fryday at a medium size tourney.
I'm doing it to have a chance to survive decks like eldrazi-tron and merfolks and possibly other decks against which it's not given i'll be able to be faster than them every game. Enchantments seem to me the type of spell that people is less prepared to deal with. I'm also pleased it stays over abrupt decay and kozilek inquisitions. not much, but still one point in its favour.
I actually prefer it in the UWr version of my dek where i have 3x boros charm to make my permanents indistructible, but i'll be testing it in the UW aswell, i hope it gains me that few turns i need to finish off my opponenet.
Comments welcomed
I was have the same concern and tried it and wasn't very pleased it took a little too long to get out. I'm considering the new Gideon of the Trials to serve a similar purpose though.
I've tried all 3. Wouldn't Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit be harder to cast based on its double W cost? In the current build I'm using on xmage favorable winds seems nice. my only thing is sometimes the deck runs out of gas and i need a creature to be threat and drawing more favorable winds or more aether vial sucks.
Favorable Winds seems much easier to cast as an anthem effect.
6 mana (even with convoke) is quite a lot for this deck.
Yeah I definitely see that perspective. I guess I was trying to use something that could still be used with Geist of Saint Traft or Eidolon of Rhetoric or other non flying spirits. Sometimes it feels like the deck misses out on some tech options because they don't have flying and making those creatures beefier with more power/toughness kinda makes the lack of flying irrelevant.
Hello all been following and reading the forum for a while. For a pure U/W version not doing the Tallowisp stuff has anyone tried Obelisk of Urd? Since we are kinda short on Lords I've been using Metallic Mimic but I find that she is too prone to creature removal alone and has Geist of Saint Traft syndrome because she doesn't have flying. Thoughts?
Tested the Smuggler's Copter online on xmage and id say it worked well. It helped filter cards early and mid game. it having semi protection by turning into an artifact at end of turn was nice. It put pressure on the opponent and forces them to use removal on it and with Kira, Great Glass Spinner and Selfless Spirit its typically easy to protect when it is a creature. My only issue is that it really is useless without a creature. In some Grixis matches and other decks i faced with super heavy creature removal they made sure I have no creatures to crew it.
All that said I like the concept and also wanted a kind of finisher for the deck that would allow me to put pressure on my opponent and as Geist of Saint Traft is almost perfect for that role it isn't a flier and that has cost me quite a few games because it was easily blocked. Under this understanding I decided to test out Dragonlord Ojutai and I like it so far. Much like Copter it allows filter once the deck is typically running out of steam, it has semi protection and 5 is nice chunk of life. Here is my current deck list. I'll take thoughts and comments.
2 Dragonlord Ojutai
4 Drogskol Captain
2 Kira, Great Glass-Spinner
4 Mausoleum Wanderer
4 Rattlechains
3 Selfless Spirit
4 Spell Queller
Enchantment (3)
3 Cast Out
Instant (9)
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Cryptic Command
4 Mana Leak
4 Serum Visions
Land (21)
4 Flooded Strand
3 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Island
2 Moorland Haunt
2 Plains
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Cavern of Souls
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Rest in Peace
3 Spreading Seas
2 Stony Silence
You'll also notice I'm not using Path to Exile. I really hate giving my opponent lands and where as Cast Out is 3 more expensive, at worst it can be a 1 mana draw card in supplement to Serum Visions or at its best flashable removal which allowed me to successfully get rid of a Emrakul, the Aeons Torn before my opponent was able to attack me with it.
When I tried worship personally it seemed impossible to keep. Maybe its just me but I see to face alot of grixis and other type of controlish/denial/ heavy ceature hate decks that have crap tons of removal and crap tons of board wipes. and usually by the time i can play it those decks normally have a very heavy card advantage via ancestral visions or whatever draw engine they have in the deck. Maybe I'm not siding against these decks properly. Suggestions? also just general question to most of you for example @StreexGeist in your sideboard i see many 1 copy of and 2 copy of. how do you reliably get to your answers in games 2 and 3 with only 1 and 2 copies of a card in a 60 card deck?
I'm going to test out something similar to your build just simple because I like the aether build but refuse to buy the cards IRL.
Question to the forum has anyone had any luck in U/W using a planeswalker. I feel like they are a great resource that we should have access to. I've been testing Tamiyo, the moon sage and she seems to help with some threats like Death's Shadow and Tarmogoyf and I like her draw power but i just wish she could come out a bit sooner or operate a bit more like her sister Tamiyo, Field Researcher. Any recommendations
I was have the same concern and tried it and wasn't very pleased it took a little too long to get out. I'm considering the new Gideon of the Trials to serve a similar purpose though.
I've tried all 3. Wouldn't Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit be harder to cast based on its double W cost? In the current build I'm using on xmage favorable winds seems nice. my only thing is sometimes the deck runs out of gas and i need a creature to be threat and drawing more favorable winds or more aether vial sucks.
Yeah I definitely see that perspective. I guess I was trying to use something that could still be used with Geist of Saint Traft or Eidolon of Rhetoric or other non flying spirits. Sometimes it feels like the deck misses out on some tech options because they don't have flying and making those creatures beefier with more power/toughness kinda makes the lack of flying irrelevant.