Why ever cut Faithless looting? (Midrange)
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Jund / Grixis / Shadow
- Abzan
In what situations do you cut Nourishing Shoal, especially when not cutting Through the Breach?
Here's the final decklist I'm taking to the GP and sideboard:
Here are all the sideboard configurations. For each one where I still need to make a cut I included that in (parenthesis). Happy to take any feedbacl on those decisions or anything else.
Abzan – Need 2 cuts!
-2 Faithless Looting; -1 Desperate Ritual; (-1 Through the Breach); (-1 Worldspine Wurm)
+1 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon
Ad Nauseum – Need 1 cut!
-1 Night’s Whisper; -1 Tormenting Voice; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual; (-1 Worldspine Wurm)
+1 Collective Brutality; +3 Blood Moon; +1 Slaughter Games
Affinity
-1 Temple of Malice; -3 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Shattering Spree; +1 Rakdos Charm; +1 Grim Lavamancer; +1 Abrade
Thoughtseize "(discard outlet, general answer to problematic cards)" - FinalNub
Cranial Extraction "(Storm, KCI, other GY stuff, although this may be a reach)" - FinalNub, I also like the idea damnjoni of it protecting against opposing Surgicals (great against lantern)
Lost LegacySlaughter Games This could be good sideboard tech against KCI, or other obvious linear strategies
2ndRakdos Charm An obviously versatile option that can be used in a number of situations but importantly can be used against "Go Wide" decks like Humans or those trying to prey on them.
Ignore Lost Legacy! I forgot it only targets non-Artifact. Slaughter Games would work though!
I had 3-4 Leyline of Sanctities or Chalices in, but thinking of leaving them out now. I liked Leyline against Storm and BGx decks (both on the decline now), Chalice was nice against a lot of decks but pretty much only on the play.
Thinking of adding some graveyard hate, mainly against Hollow One and KCI. I think the best options are Leyline of the Void, Ravenous Trap, Rakdos Charm, Surgical Extraction and/or Nihil Spellbomb.
I'm leaning towards Surgical Extraction or Rakdos Charm (especially if Jonathan thinks it's any good). Surgical because I like that it's cheap and it protects against opposing Surgicals. The downside being that it only slows Hollow One a bit (this could be balanced by playing more Angers). Rakdos Charm is nice because it also hits things on the battlefield against these decks.
Here's what I sketched out for my GP Vegas list. I'll work on a tournament report soon. Went 11-4 but 2 of my losses were literal punts out of the stadium and the other two were very close, so this conceivably could've been very different. In the meantime hopefully people will find this helpful. Have some other random thoughts too for some MUs
I'll be taking Grishoalbrand to GP Barcelona this weekend and would greatly appreciate some feedback on small tweaks and the last few spots in the sideboard. I've borrowed heavily from finalnub and damnjoni's post above. Unfortunately, I only get some FNM testing and a few leagues on MTGO, so I'm leaning heavily on videos I've watched and this forum.
My thought for a mainboard change is to swap Cathartic Reunion out for Tormenting Voice. My thought here is that I usually have only 1 card in my hand I can spare whenever I draw it, so I always feel the cost in lost combo pieces is too high. I also think this may reduce the blowout that happens G1 against a counter deck that counters it. Ultimately, this may just be that I'm bad at evaluating the combo pieces in hand, but this does seem to make me less hesitant to use.
Sideboard, I'm expecting slightly more KCI but also plenty of Humans. I really like the Sideboard guide that Jonathan put together, and acknowledged the removal of the 3rd Pact. In its place I'm thinking of one of three cards:
Thoughtseize "(discard outlet, general answer to problematic cards)" - FinalNub
Cranial Extraction "(Storm, KCI, other GY stuff, although this may be a reach)" - FinalNub, I also like the idea damnjoni of it protecting against opposing Surgicals (great against lantern)
Lost Legacy This could be good sideboard tech against KCI, or other obvious linear strategies
2ndRakdos Charm An obviously versatile option that can be used in a number of situations but importantly can be used against "Go Wide" decks like Humans or those trying to prey on them.
I've made an only slightly modified version of Jonathan's guide here: Google Doc
Any and all feedback is very welcome. I've got a ton of backup sideboard cards so I'm still not committed to anything yet.
p.s. finalnub you have a number of notes in your doc that just says "could use more" or highlight a specific sideboard spot that is blank. Could you provide just a bit more feedback on those items?
Finalnub/Jonathan I know we talked a lot about sideboarding at GP Toronto. I recently switched to amulet titan in paper but am picking up the deck on mtgo pretty soon. Do you have an updated version of your sideboard guide. I saw that you were running a lot of different things since we last talked. For example, lavamancer seems sweet. If anyone else has insight on this topic I'd love to hear from you. Sideboarding is probably my biggest struggle so I'd love to see how you guys are sideboarding.
+1!
@finalnub/Jonathan
I’m going to GP Barcelona in 2 weeks and picked up the deck solely on your great write-ups and detailed guide. I’m working on a cheat sheet for sideboarding which I will be taking with me and an update from you would be a great starting point/guidance. I’ll be posting my plan here for review anyway so any feedback would be great by the wider community too!
Also, which matchups would you consider to be okay to have Lost legacy? Right now I can think only about storm and scapeshift..are there any more decks in the meta right now that would be hurt badly by it?
How about... Living End?
We haven't recently discussed the mirror match here, but that is one of the most skill intensive matches I've played ina tournament setting. Here's some things I learned:
- Obviously a landed Leyline puts you in a short term advantage (until they Beast it).
- Lost Legacy naming Living End puts you in charge of when graveyards come into play and who gets to act first.
- You almost never want to resolve Demonic Dread if you can avoid it. It puts you at a bad tempo advantage.
- Faeries in hand are obviously super effective.
- You have to constantly balance the number of creatures on the field and the number in the Graveyard. The one who has better balance and greater power between the two should win.
Hey, guys. I really need your advise. Recetly i changed kari-zev expertise with 4th demonic dread and i felt that it was a right move. But suddenly our meta has bacome full of remands and now my living ends are usually in my hand and i can not play it (suspend is pretty slow and crazy). So, what do you think about having in main deck 8 cascade spells as well as 1 copy of expertise (for example, instead of 1 beast within)?
Against control are you suspending a copy as soon as you can? Then you force them to have two counterspells the same turn.
Again, I really appreciate both your responses and feedback. Trust me, I'd rather just talk through it in a casual way with someone who understands how the interactions work and work through the appropriate and reasonable shortcuts. However at the recent Copenhagen GP I missed a sequence trigger and my opponent was very strict that I had to say it before passing priority (not complaining, he was right). By doing this exercise I understand it better and will only get to this level if I feel the opponent is bent on taking it to the letter of the rules.
A Player: Entering combat phase, attack with XYZ creatures.
LE: Player: "No Blockers, cast violent outburst, cascade trigger on the stack, responses?"
A: No Responses
LE: [start flipping cards until Living End is hit] "Casting Living End. Living End on the stack, responses?"
A: [does not have Spell Snare] Sac Ornithopter to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Memnite to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Signal Pest to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Steel Overseer to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "Discard Faerie Macabre from hand targeting Signal Pest and Steel Overseer"
A: Faeries resolves, Signal Pest and Steel Overseer are exiled. Living End Resolves.
LE: "As Active Player, your triggers go on the stack first."
A: Activate Blinkmoth, put Arcbound counters on Blinkmoth. No further triggers.
LE: "Deadshot Minotaur trigger targeting Ornithopter. Ingot Chewer trigger targeting Signal Pest. Pass priority"
A: Triggers resolve. Ornithopter and Signal Pest go the Graveyard. Blinkmoth gets 5 +1/+1 counters.
LE: "Everything has resolved. Please continue on with your combat phase."
A: Main Phase 2 (assume they didn't play anything). Move to End of Turn.
LE: "During your End Phase, Fetch a red source, cycle Desert Ceradon, Archfiend of Ifnir trigger - Memnite and Blinkmoth each get -1 / -1 counter - Memnite goes to the Graveyard. Pass Priority. Start my turn."
Sorry, if this is too much detail, but I just want to make sure I'm getting this exactly right so I don't lose any opportunities because of a misplay or missed trigger.
1. They say enter combat, pass priority.
2. You pass priority
3. They go to declare attacks, pass priority.
4. You pass priority
5. Go to blocks, they pass priority.
Here, would you say "no blocks, cast Violent Outburst, Cycle. Pass priority"
Then if they say it resolves, start flipping cards and say "cycle into Living End. I'd like to play Living End."
Here I need to get some sort of response that it resolves or they try to counter it. What do you usually say? I've been going with "does it resolve?" But I feel that's baiting then to counter.
Moving on, let's assume they say "It resolves" do I say "pass priority" so they can start doing their saccing?
At this point I know I have actions I want to take while LE is on the stack (maybe Fetch if I haven't already, maybe cycle ceradon, probably discard Faeries). If they take no actions and pass priority back to me do I miss my opportunity - this is obviously more relevant to deck without any post LE triggers, but may want to bolt or push a creature or something else tricky to get something back in the yard. Can I say something after I say "play Living End" that means do what you are going to do then I've got stuff to do which will be the last thing before LE happens?
6. You cast violent outburst cascading into living end, pass priority.
This is where one of two scenarios happen.
Scenario A: They want the modular trigger on the stack post living end (predicated on the two unknown cards in hand or whatever thought line of logic)
7a. Opponent sacs all creatures except ravager and then some non-creature artifacts (if any), passes priority.
7b. opponent sacs all creatures and then some non-creature artifacts (if any), passes priority
I've read somewhere that a good Affinity player does their sacing one at a time allowing the LE player to respond after each one. If I understand correctly this is so when they get down to the Raveger you have to make a guess of will they sac it, then you respond and discard Faeries exiling Raveger and something else, or will they allow it to be taken down by LE, and float the counters onto a returned creature. My understanding here is after each modular sacrifice they are passing priority to use Faeries and for the last one before Raveger if you don't use the Faerie and they choose not to sac Raveger to itself then you miss the opportunity to take another action and the Living End occurs.
Is this correct? What is the right way to phrase these steps so that you get to take your actions before the stack clears and LE happens?
8a. With living end still on the stack, faerie macabre the overseer and signal pest and cycle the cerodon.
9a. Resolve living end
10a. ETB goes on stack resolving in active player then non-active player order
11a. Modular trigger on the stack, choose either vault skirge, memnite or ornithopter or one of the manlands (if mana available)
12a. Your abilities goes on the stack, respond accordingly based on which creature the modular trigger goes on. Minotaur on the fliers and ingot chewer the nonfliers.
13a. Your abilities resolve first
14a. Your opponents abilities fizzle unless choosing the manland
So this is specifically relevant because it is Violent Outburst on their turn so they are AP here. Would you say, "as AP your ETBs happen first"?
Let's say they say "activate Blinkmoth, put the counters on the creature" then you respond, "As NAP my ETB triggers are as follows: Deadshot Minotaur does 3 damage to Vault Skirge, Ingot Chewer destroys Memnite, pass priority." At this point they should move the two creatures to the graveyard and put tokens on the Blinkmoth. Everything is done from the Violent Outburst, but sometimes it feels like they are still waiting for me. Can you say, "It is still your combat phase do you have any more actions?" Or something like that?
As a quick aside if this LE was off a Demonic Dread you'd be the AP and have to select which creatures get killed before the modular triggers are placed, right?
15a. Liberally activate fulminator mage whenever you feel threatened by the manland with counters if that is the target
Scenario B: No modular trigger on the stack post living end
7b. opponent sacs all creatures and then some non-creature artifacts (if any), passes priority
8b. With living end still on the stack, faerie macabre the overseer and ravager and cycle the cerodon.
9b. Resolve living end
10b. ETB goes on stack, you're the only one with any. Minotaur the skirge and ingot chewer the signal pest
I assume the end of their turn is when I want to cycle Ceradon. I have a substantial threat clock out already and this allows me to put a -1/-1 on anything I didn't destroy with ETB triggers and anything they might of cast in their second main. Hopefully you get another land as you described.
Assuming no other cards played, when turn is passed back to you ingot chewer (better if hardcasted assuming land drawn) the plating and proceed to attack with all but the archfiend holding that to block any potential counter attacks.
These entire sequences is predicated on the fact that they don't have spell pierce in hand and spell pierce mana available. If they do, cut back to 7a/b and change that to opponent casting spell pierce to end that sequence.
Also it's hard to predict any future events because a lot of information is unknown. The card gained from cycling cerodon and the two unknown cards in opponents hands changes a lot. That on top of mana open for opponent and life totals probably carries weight too in making decisions.
edit: I suppose there is one more line to take based only on known info, one could choose to not cycle cerodon and instead farie macabre the ornithopter and ravager (scenario B only) and use ETBs targeting the non 1 toughness creatures and finish off the remaining ones with cerodon cycle triggering archfiend. Scenario A is the same except you get a free hit on another creature because ravager isn't going to GY (makes no difference which creature)
I don't honestly think it makes any real difference if you cycle cerodon or not, maybe if I got life totals it might be more relevant.
Again, thank you so much for helping with the phrasing here and the lines of play. If you can think of any other specific key statements a LE player should remember to use during their sequence I'd be very appreciative.
I'd like some help with phrasing my turn phases and actions in competitive play using cards like Faeries Macabre and Ingot Chewer for maximum value and rules correctness.
I'll give you a scenario and you tell me how exactly you'd phrase each step.
You:
Hand: Desert Cerodon, Ingot Chewer, Faerie Macabre, Violent Outburst
Board: Blackcleave Cliffs, Grove of the Burnwillows, Swamp, Verdant Catacombs (All Untapped)
Yard: Archfiend of Ifnir, 1x Horror of Broken Lands, Deadshot Minotaur, Ingot Chewer, Fulminator Mage
I think the 2 - 2 split of archfiend and beast just answers more situations. I think TWoo a great LE player and had a great run, but I doubt having zero answers to things like Chalice or Karn MB is the right build.
Probably only a matter of time before this deck is in Tier 2 again.
Hopefully, the OP of this thread also comes back soon. The primer needs to be updated with the new creatures.
Or a new one started. Not sure how MTGSalvation threads are meant to go but after 250 pages, isn't it time to consolidate, put together a new guide and start the discussion fresh? Is a decklist or sideboard guide from 2014 even useful anymore?
Why ever cut Faithless looting? (Midrange)
- Mardu Pyromancer
- Jund / Grixis / Shadow
- Abzan
In what situations do you cut Nourishing Shoal, especially when not cutting Through the Breach?
Here's the final decklist I'm taking to the GP and sideboard:
5 Swamp
3 Mountain
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Temple of Malice
4 Faithless Looting
4 Night's Whisper
2 Tormenting Voice
1 Collective Brutality
2 Desperate Ritual
4 Goryo's Vengeance
1 Manamorphose
4 Through the Breach
4 Nourishing Shoal
4 Griselbrand
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Worldspine Wurm
2 Borborygmos Enraged
2 Pact of Negation
1 Collective Brutality
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Shattering Spree
1 Rakdos Charm
3 Blood Moon
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Abrade
1 Slaughter Games
Here are all the sideboard configurations. For each one where I still need to make a cut I included that in (parenthesis). Happy to take any feedbacl on those decisions or anything else.
Abzan – Need 2 cuts!
-2 Faithless Looting; -1 Desperate Ritual; (-1 Through the Breach); (-1 Worldspine Wurm)
+1 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon
Ad Nauseum – Need 1 cut!
-1 Night’s Whisper; -1 Tormenting Voice; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual; (-1 Worldspine Wurm)
+1 Collective Brutality; +3 Blood Moon; +1 Slaughter Games
Affinity
-1 Temple of Malice; -3 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Shattering Spree; +1 Rakdos Charm; +1 Grim Lavamancer; +1 Abrade
Amulet – Need 1 Cut!
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose
+3 Blood Moon (2 Blood Moon); +1 Abrade; +1 Slaughter Games
Blue Moon Breach/Madcap/Kiki
-2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Lightning Axe;
+2 Pact of Negation; +1 Collective Brutality
Boggles – Need 1 Cut!
-2 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual
+1 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon (2 Blood Moon)
Burn
-4 Night’s Whisper
+2 Pact of Negation; +1 Collective Brutality; +1 Abrade
Dredge
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe
+1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Rakdos Charm
Eldrazi Stompy
-2 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Shattering Spree
Eldrazi & Taxes
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Abrade
Eldrazi Tron
-1 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Shattering Spree; +1 Abrade
Elves
-1 Night’s Whisper; -1 Tormenting Voice; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Abrade
Gx Tron
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe;
+1 Shattering Spree; +1 Blood Moon
Grixis Shadow
-1 Temple of Malice; -1 Faithless Looting; -2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm;
+1 Pact of Negation; +2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon
Gw Company
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods
Humans
-1 Temple of Malice; -2 Night’s Whisper; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+1 Collective Brutality; +2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Grim Lavamancer; +1 Abrade
Infect
-1 Temple of Malice; -1 Tormenting Voice; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Nourishing Shoal; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+1 Collective Brutality; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon; +1 Grim Lavamancer; +1 Abrade
Jeskai Control – Need 1 cut!
-2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; (-1 Through the Breach)
+2 Pact of Negation; +1 Collective Brutality; +3 Blood Moon; +1 Slaughter Games
Jund – Need 1 cut!
-2 Faithless Looting; -1 Desperate Ritual; (-1 Manamorphose)
+1 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +2 Blood Moon
Jund Shadow
-1 Faithless Looting; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Nourishing Shoal; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Engineered Explosives; +3 Blood Moon
KCI
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual
+1 Rakdos Charm; +1 Slaughter Games
Lantern
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Nourishing Shoal; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Shattering Spree; +1 Rakdos Charm; +3 Blood Moon; +1 Abrade
Mardu Pyromancer – Need 1 Cut! (Why Borborygmos Enraged?)
-2 Faithless Looting; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; (-1 Through the Breach); -1 Borborygmos Enraged (Worldspine Wurm)
+1 Collective Brutality; +2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Abrade
Ponza (Why not Lightning Axe?)
-1 Collective Brutality
+1 Abrade
Storm – Need 1 cut!
-1 Temple of Malice; -2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Through the Breach; -1 Worldspine Wurm
+2 Pact of Negation; +1 Collective Brutality; (-1 Collective Brutality); +1 Rakdos Charm; +1 Abrade; +1 Slaughter Games
Turbo Hollow One
-2 Night’s Whisper; -1 Collective Brutality; -1 Desperate Ritual
+2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Abrade
Uw Control
-2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual
+2 Collective Brutality; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Slaughter Games
Valakut – Need 1 Cut!
-1 Collective Brutality; -1 Lightning Axe; -1 Desperate Ritual
+3 Blood Moon; (-1 Blood Moon); +1 Slaughter Games
Vizier Combo (Why Nourishing Shoal?)
-2 Tormenting Voice; -1 Desperate Ritual; -1 Manamorphose; -1 Nourishing Shoal (Through the Breach); -1 Worldspine Wurm
+1 Collective Brutality; +2 Bontu’s Last Reckoning; +1 Anger of the Gods; +1 Engineered Explosives; +1 Grim Lavamancer
Ignore Lost Legacy! I forgot it only targets non-Artifact. Slaughter Games would work though!
Hi all,
I'll be taking Grishoalbrand to GP Barcelona this weekend and would greatly appreciate some feedback on small tweaks and the last few spots in the sideboard. I've borrowed heavily from finalnub and damnjoni's post above. Unfortunately, I only get some FNM testing and a few leagues on MTGO, so I'm leaning heavily on videos I've watched and this forum.
My thought for a mainboard change is to swap Cathartic Reunion out for Tormenting Voice. My thought here is that I usually have only 1 card in my hand I can spare whenever I draw it, so I always feel the cost in lost combo pieces is too high. I also think this may reduce the blowout that happens G1 against a counter deck that counters it. Ultimately, this may just be that I'm bad at evaluating the combo pieces in hand, but this does seem to make me less hesitant to use.
Sideboard, I'm expecting slightly more KCI but also plenty of Humans. I really like the Sideboard guide that Jonathan put together, and acknowledged the removal of the 3rd Pact. In its place I'm thinking of one of three cards:
I've made an only slightly modified version of Jonathan's guide here: Google Doc
Any and all feedback is very welcome. I've got a ton of backup sideboard cards so I'm still not committed to anything yet.
p.s. finalnub you have a number of notes in your doc that just says "could use more" or highlight a specific sideboard spot that is blank. Could you provide just a bit more feedback on those items?
+1!
@finalnub/Jonathan
I’m going to GP Barcelona in 2 weeks and picked up the deck solely on your great write-ups and detailed guide. I’m working on a cheat sheet for sideboarding which I will be taking with me and an update from you would be a great starting point/guidance. I’ll be posting my plan here for review anyway so any feedback would be great by the wider community too!
How about... Living End?
We haven't recently discussed the mirror match here, but that is one of the most skill intensive matches I've played ina tournament setting. Here's some things I learned:
- Obviously a landed Leyline puts you in a short term advantage (until they Beast it).
- Lost Legacy naming Living End puts you in charge of when graveyards come into play and who gets to act first.
- You almost never want to resolve Demonic Dread if you can avoid it. It puts you at a bad tempo advantage.
- Faeries in hand are obviously super effective.
- You have to constantly balance the number of creatures on the field and the number in the Graveyard. The one who has better balance and greater power between the two should win.
What are your tips for playing the mirror?
Against control are you suspending a copy as soon as you can? Then you force them to have two counterspells the same turn.
LE Player:
Hand: Desert Cerodon, Ingot Chewer, Faerie Macabre, Violent Outburst
Board: Blackcleave Cliffs, Grove of the Burnwillows, Swamp, Verdant Catacombs (All Untapped)
Yard: Archfiend of Ifnir, Horror of Broken Lands, Deadshot Minotaur, Ingot Chewer, Fulminator Mage
Affinity Player:
Hand: 2 cards
Board: Ornithopter, Memnite, Signal Pest, Steel Overseer, Arcbound Raveger, Mox Opal, Cranial Plating, Blinkmoth Nexus, Darksteel Citadel
Yard: Vault Scourge, Inkmoth Nexus
A Player: Entering combat phase, attack with XYZ creatures.
LE: Player: "No Blockers, cast violent outburst, cascade trigger on the stack, responses?"
A: No Responses
LE: [start flipping cards until Living End is hit] "Casting Living End. Living End on the stack, responses?"
A: [does not have Spell Snare] Sac Ornithopter to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Memnite to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Signal Pest to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "No Response"
A: Sac Steel Overseer to Arcbound Raveger.
LE: "Discard Faerie Macabre from hand targeting Signal Pest and Steel Overseer"
A: Faeries resolves, Signal Pest and Steel Overseer are exiled. Living End Resolves.
LE: "As Active Player, your triggers go on the stack first."
A: Activate Blinkmoth, put Arcbound counters on Blinkmoth. No further triggers.
LE: "Deadshot Minotaur trigger targeting Ornithopter. Ingot Chewer trigger targeting Signal Pest. Pass priority"
A: Triggers resolve. Ornithopter and Signal Pest go the Graveyard. Blinkmoth gets 5 +1/+1 counters.
LE: "Everything has resolved. Please continue on with your combat phase."
A: Main Phase 2 (assume they didn't play anything). Move to End of Turn.
LE: "During your End Phase, Fetch a red source, cycle Desert Ceradon, Archfiend of Ifnir trigger - Memnite and Blinkmoth each get -1 / -1 counter - Memnite goes to the Graveyard. Pass Priority. Start my turn."
Sorry, if this is too much detail, but I just want to make sure I'm getting this exactly right so I don't lose any opportunities because of a misplay or missed trigger.
Here, would you say "no blocks, cast Violent Outburst, Cycle. Pass priority"
Then if they say it resolves, start flipping cards and say "cycle into Living End. I'd like to play Living End."
Here I need to get some sort of response that it resolves or they try to counter it. What do you usually say? I've been going with "does it resolve?" But I feel that's baiting then to counter.
Moving on, let's assume they say "It resolves" do I say "pass priority" so they can start doing their saccing?
At this point I know I have actions I want to take while LE is on the stack (maybe Fetch if I haven't already, maybe cycle ceradon, probably discard Faeries). If they take no actions and pass priority back to me do I miss my opportunity - this is obviously more relevant to deck without any post LE triggers, but may want to bolt or push a creature or something else tricky to get something back in the yard. Can I say something after I say "play Living End" that means do what you are going to do then I've got stuff to do which will be the last thing before LE happens?
I've read somewhere that a good Affinity player does their sacing one at a time allowing the LE player to respond after each one. If I understand correctly this is so when they get down to the Raveger you have to make a guess of will they sac it, then you respond and discard Faeries exiling Raveger and something else, or will they allow it to be taken down by LE, and float the counters onto a returned creature. My understanding here is after each modular sacrifice they are passing priority to use Faeries and for the last one before Raveger if you don't use the Faerie and they choose not to sac Raveger to itself then you miss the opportunity to take another action and the Living End occurs.
Is this correct? What is the right way to phrase these steps so that you get to take your actions before the stack clears and LE happens?
So this is specifically relevant because it is Violent Outburst on their turn so they are AP here. Would you say, "as AP your ETBs happen first"?
Let's say they say "activate Blinkmoth, put the counters on the creature" then you respond, "As NAP my ETB triggers are as follows: Deadshot Minotaur does 3 damage to Vault Skirge, Ingot Chewer destroys Memnite, pass priority." At this point they should move the two creatures to the graveyard and put tokens on the Blinkmoth. Everything is done from the Violent Outburst, but sometimes it feels like they are still waiting for me. Can you say, "It is still your combat phase do you have any more actions?" Or something like that?
As a quick aside if this LE was off a Demonic Dread you'd be the AP and have to select which creatures get killed before the modular triggers are placed, right?
I assume the end of their turn is when I want to cycle Ceradon. I have a substantial threat clock out already and this allows me to put a -1/-1 on anything I didn't destroy with ETB triggers and anything they might of cast in their second main. Hopefully you get another land as you described.
Again, thank you so much for helping with the phrasing here and the lines of play. If you can think of any other specific key statements a LE player should remember to use during their sequence I'd be very appreciative.
I'll give you a scenario and you tell me how exactly you'd phrase each step.
You:
Hand: Desert Cerodon, Ingot Chewer, Faerie Macabre, Violent Outburst
Board: Blackcleave Cliffs, Grove of the Burnwillows, Swamp, Verdant Catacombs (All Untapped)
Yard: Archfiend of Ifnir, 1x Horror of Broken Lands, Deadshot Minotaur, Ingot Chewer, Fulminator Mage
Opponent:
Hand: 2 cards
Board: Ornithopter, Memnite, Signal Pest, Steel Overseer, Arcbound Raveger, Mox Opal, Cranial Plating, Blinkmoth Nexus, Darksteel Citadel
Yard: Vault Scourge, Inkmoth Nexus
On their turn. End of Main Phase 1, they say "Entering Combat".
This is a GP level event. Please tell me how you'd phrase every step. Assume they make optimal plays with the information they have.
Keen to see your list when you get access to a computer to post it.
Or a new one started. Not sure how MTGSalvation threads are meant to go but after 250 pages, isn't it time to consolidate, put together a new guide and start the discussion fresh? Is a decklist or sideboard guide from 2014 even useful anymore?