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  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only
    tbh he put me to L-2 with the sole purpose of finding out my role... and hes reason for allying me is that he is a good person... lol


    I honestly forgot i voted you lmfao, yet you betrayed me -_-

    Wait a minute... why would Shin every ally with LW? He was on LW's L-1 wagon with t minus 4 hours left. Can some one please look into this. I'm mobile only


    I voted LW? Pretty sure day 1 consisted of me voting DBS then voting Grape to make sure a lynch went through, the only way i would have voted LW was for the same reason it wouldnt have been cause i sucm read him.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Just checked. It looks like shin protected LW's ability not blocked it.
    hmm he protects Last's ability but scumreads him.. could easily be scum theatre. I think it would be in our best interest to have a Dawn or Shin lynch. roleblockers first.


    I mean it comes with the allying nothing i can do about that.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    @Phoenix #url=http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/community-forums/mafia/784906-zero-escape-mafia-day-2-unlucky-seven?comment=5390]5390[/urll]

    This post is something else mainly cause of how ahrd it is for me to reply to it

    -Can I start off by saying You saying your role helps town means literally nothing seeing as how your role usefulness is up to us not you.
    -Your role is common atleast the general aspect of it is, I don't know about him i want you lynched because its way to convienent and that i cant roleblock you.
    -SO i have to ask, is this passive all you have? No other abilities? I ask because I have 1 ability and 2 passives so the question has come to my mind.
    -I can prove you too, but you seem to be against that seeing as how you had to ask if you your ability can be blocked. If you were town wouldnt you be all up for being able to have an ability that can be proven?
    -What Process?
    -So that one post from DBS does it make her scum? If so why say that, and no I dont agree it gives scum vibes because I also like the idea of lynching you.
    -Why would scum kill you? If actually hurts them just as well, because they wont be able to see the strength of the roles through the flips.
    -Why haven't you looked at me? I strongly agree you need to be lynched but you didnt quote any of my posts about you ik they exist, youve mainly only been focused on Terry.
    -Passive multi targetting seems hard to believe and I rather not test that theory out cause it requires multiple deaths which i rather not see.
    -Do you think one of the roleblockers has to be scum?
    -Did you really vote twice in 1 posts -_-
    -What do you mean if u die your ability is broadcasted?
    -So are your scum reads Last/DBS/Terry/Osi?
    -Town shouldn't care about roles, but at the same time having the roles out there helps them understand the setup which in turn helps mafia also understand the setup.

    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Shinichi »
    Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
    the way you say this sounds like you don't care what happens to town. and why aren't you even voting that way if you want him lynched? I don't understand how you're town in all this. ugh.


    You can look at it that way sure, but hes a scum read so why the hell would I let that pass by just cause of his role claim.

    Quote from Iso »
    Funnily enough, Gentleman Johnny claimed Doc (as scum) in the 2016 Invitational, and I still strongly advocated his lynch immediately afterwards; Az was in that game and it should come as no surprise that I would advocate his lynch after his Doc claim.


    Fair enough lol

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Cythare also knows at least some selection of those three players better than you do...
    I guess that means you do acknowledge metareads.

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Since you don't want to try to convince me that Last is town, can you at least try to convince me that Shin is scum? I'm not really seeing a case on either of them from you, and I'm significantly more willing to believe that Shin is scum than I am to believe that Last is town or Phoenix is scum.
    I've already explained my townread on Last: his scummy behavior was neutral to me, but that early D1 tie was enough to give him a townlean. must I repeat myself everytime?
    as for Shin, the way he brought up a potential counterclaim late, besides hammering a townread of his, doesn't look good.

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    As I believe I have said, I have you straining the boundary between neutral and townlean, barring something overwhelmingly townie, or an Az townflip. You are part of one world, but you could definitely be town irregardless of the alignments of Last and Az.
    then why do you want to question my posts more than, say, Tom/LnG/Killjoy? it will lead nowhere if I'm a neutral/townlean for you.

    Quote from tomsloger »
    @dawning
    It bugs me you want people to take your meta read on whisper as law but are just... actively ignoring me and az's meta read on Iso. We've both explained it fairly well imo. He's not solving the game like iso solves games.
    And is straight up flaunting that with his bull***** links to his iso which is, like, totally my move.
    looking into playstyles help your judgement. I explained Last's playstyle to you since he has a terrible time doing so, and I'm sure you have a better idea of how I play. feel free to figure things out from there. I never said my word is law, but if you're trying to discredit a metaread...that's hilarious. I've seen and considered Iso's meta and he hasn't behaved otherwise, just less aggressive - and he's mentioned some life issues that got in the way. there's also the possibility of tampering with meta, and I know since I do that frequently. Last is least likely, or even capable, of tampering with his meta since he has much to learn....which also explains his heavy reliance on meta, since he's not familiar with the tampering possibilities. I factor in everything before coming to a conclusion. Iso has more depth to decipher compared to Last, that is why I'm taking longer to figure him out.



    Quote from Shinichi »
    1.Ok when do i not tunnel miss meta? If you cant answer that properly then you cant possible see anything wrong with my acitons.

    2.It wasnt a counter claim 2 other people have clarly pointed out the differences actually your the only one who thinks its a counterclaim tbf lol, so likewise I don't care aobut this mechanical aspect you keep going back to. Cause again if I was scum why the hell would I wait till now to counterclaim, i aint an idiot i know how to play the game.

    3. Well I mean if you get lynched and flipp town ill still be flipping town, but I highly doubt your going to flip town with that role claim of yours.

    4.I don't but am i going to let myself get patronized? No of course not if I have to ill step outside my comfort zone.

    5.Delayed? If I am partnered with Phoenix and I betray him he will be role blocked that night. I obviously cant control it, so is this your way of justfiying my lynch is ok when your only able to clear yourself after night 3.

    6. Petty is one thing I am not, and i dont bring personal feelings into this game so please reframe from continuing to bring that up over and over its annoying.
    1. personal insults so far: acting like a god, so smart, miss meta(new). may I ask why the personal attacks?
    I have seen genuine tunnels from you as town, but they don't stay on 1 person if it accomplishes nothing - your only vote on me is doing nothing.
    2. when you fullclaimed, you included the non-factional kill line. sure sounds like you wanted to counterclaim me right there and then~ could have done that earlier, so we could all sort it out before forcing you to mislynch your townread. you even proceeded to blame anyone who is frustrated at Grapefruit's lack of claiming, Dawn and Azrael - yet you put Last at L2 to make him claim, and unvoted as a way to say that's what town should do.
    3. case and lynch me then. a single vote won't do anything to me and you know it. you aren't exactly pushing my case. why?
    4. in what way do you feel patronized?
    5. scum won't waste their actions on proving themselves to town. even if you're partnered with Phoenix, that doesn't mean you will roleblock him.
    6. what I say to others isn't directed at you, but you address those to call me petty. I don't think you should be annoyed if you're the one to bring it up.


    1.Your an adult lol please don't say those are insults, because if you consider those personal attacks then i deal with that every god damn day so please stop. You like to use meta so if you think me calling you miss meta is an insult then don't use meta so much lmfao.
    2.I included that cause its in my roles text, I didnt just decide to add that to frame you. I mean your welcome to believe what you want, but once i am lynched its going to make your life alot harder since the text is clearly there.
    3.I am, but just like me half the game wants to town read you XD.
    4.I wonder.
    5.I will roleblock him because I am town, if I was scum I would prob still roleblock him because bussing is fun lmfao.
    6.Cause petty would be ignoring me cause you don't like what I am saying, which is what a few other players have also been doing. I on the otherhand would never do soemthing like that.

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Quote from Shinichi »
    I would assume so unless mafia were provided fake flavor to claim.


    Wouldn't surprise me.


    I mean If the scum are evil by flavor then their are plenty of characters that I would know were scummy by nature if they claimed that, grape character is scummy in a sense flavor wise if you played the first game. So i can tell thats not the case, atleast thats my opinion.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Kabazame »
    @Joe Terry
    If Azrael is lying and the real doctor dies tonight after lynching Phoenix, we'll never know. This would be a free lynch with role flips but without we have nothing to go on. Scum benefits from this obviously.
    Furthermore, if scum has a rolecop they pretty much get infinite use Janitor which is insanely powerful.

    If Phoenix is telling the truth, his role is very beneficial to town, not only in providing information but also preventing scum from using the confusion to their benefit. Thus there's no reason to lynch him now when the rest of the scum team is still at large anyway.

    This leads me to two theories:
    Phoenix is town and JoeTerry is trying to kill him to make the game no flip, under the guise of his role being beneficial to scum. Terry knows this is not the case, but he's playing dumb so he doesn't get crucified after Phoenix flips

    Phoenix is scum and JoeTerry is trying to make it not look suspicious when he isn't Night Killed, or he's trying to bus him to get town cred. Whether the lynch goes through or not it's a win-win

    either way I think Terry is scum because he's pushing the Phoenix lynch too hard today when it's not the right play yet, and because this thing about the role being more beneficial to scum than town is pure rubbish. I don't think this is just him being wrong either, he's

    Also he betrayed me Frown
    Vote TheRealStinkyJoeTerry

    I have more to say on him but I don't have time right now. Expect a big post later tonight!


    SO nothing else matters to you, but his role? The interaction, the behavior, his posts? Only think that you care about is the usefulness of his ability which could be scum aligned am i wrong to state that unless you know otherwise which would imply your scum.

    Also I want phoenix lynched to and i can give 2 *****s about how helpful his aiblity is to town.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    @last manipulation why do u fall for it so easily?
    idk what you mean, just cause you see me agree on paper, doesnt mean I actually agree overall...

    I agree with terry here, I honestly if i cant gunrantee phoenix will be roleblocked I would like to see him lynched.
    Phoenix already stated his ability cant be roleblocked, but Im starting to believe that the fact that he asked Bur is a lie, and that his whole role is a lie...




    Again why would you believe that, its the 2nd most convienent thing he said outside his role claim. Also the 2nd time hes had information clarified by bur. Well what you write on paper is what matters the most in the game just saying.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    @phoenix #5329

    -No offense But why should I believe your word on how your ability works, mind you ive seen blockable passives on a 2nd note regardless ofo what you say I will be betraying you XD.

    Why do you care about the other games so much ? Thats the real question here, your on the verge of being a lynch option so what do those other games have anything to do with your situation?

    @KJ #5334

    -Why Does it matter, do you think I am scum for that reason? Also I dont even see where I replied to anything that was about you and if I did its because I wanted to provide my opinion and did not care who it was addressed to. So again does this say anything aobut my alignment?

    @Osi #5342 I aint one to talk since I am heavily focused on Dawn, but isn't it quite convienent for you to be mroe focused on az who is the hot topic?


    No, it's better for scum. Town shouldn't be concerned about roles. I'm scum reading everyone who tells me otherwise up until this point. I still don't see a good example of why it's more helpful to town than it is to scum. That opinion alone doesn't necessarily impact if the player with that ability is town or not, but I am pretty firm that it is more beneficial to scum to see role flips than it is to town. Town is used to working in a vacuum of assumption, scum use role info as a crutch and a Lynch pin to their semi-rig of destruction.
    I support this. in a way. we've had enough claims outed for the game, and don't think we need any more.


    You literally just agreed with tom then agreed with Terry lol.

    Quote from tomsloger »
    I mean, I don't think BP taker (or giver) is AI on it own.
    Could see any combination of alignments for those two roles.

    IF it's not whisper with both (ftr I think he's currently my ~weakest town read)

    But I do think targeting a KP claim is reasonably townie in a vacuum. Definitely how I would have used it.
    I really doubt Giver/Taker would be on the same alignment if they can affect thresholds - the only ones so far being claimed killing roles. while the give/take aspect is NAI, we can safely say they aren't aligned. if Last is scum, that'll mean the other half is town, and vice versa.

    also... what do you think of Cythare's reads?


    I agree but we have no idea if wisp is telling the truth about his ability after all he stated that he didnt use his ability.

    Quote from Azrael »
    I mean, he's behaviorally clean, and if he's town, the lack of flips destroys our information-gathering.

    Just flip him late-game if he's still alive, and get the best of both worlds.


    Why tho, why are people so hung up on that information?

    Quote from Azrael »
    I think Phoenix is a fantastic day 5 lynch and a crummy day 2 lynch. *frowns*


    If town is convinced not to vote phoenix then your my next bet if no one still doesnt want to vote dawn just saying.

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    but why would scum swipe Iso's BP over all the other possible choices, are they that afraid of his vegeance???
    Iso is essentially a vegetable at the moment, the same can be said of me. we're both invalid killing machines. just cripple us but keep us alive until town chooses to hang us. killing off investigative roles are priority. cripple the killing roles, kill off the investigative roles. crippling the killing roles matters as much as killing off the investigatives.


    We dont need the killing roles to progress its not like we're in a state that will make us lose if you dont shoot someone so it matters not abot killing roles, while invest roles can pretty much solve the game quicker.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from tomsloger »
    BP taker probably town based on targeting iso.
    Especially if iso is scum, but even if not it's like a really slow CC shot. Not really how I imagine scum using their "extra kp"

    Which probably makes iso/dawning more likely nontown.
    uhh... you're kinda jumping the gun here by assuming the Taker is town. in Bur's other setup, there were even/odd trackers and 1 was scum. BP Taker is probably scum.


    No ones even claimed this yet have that? We only know the possiblity exists because someone said they lost bp which could be a lie as well.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Iso »
    @JoeTerry: But Az Frown

    -

    So, I had another pet theory, and asked Bur if alignments were at all randomized with roles, and he told me he can't answer that question.

    I'm not really happy with that answer.


    I would assume so unless mafia were provided fake flavor to claim.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from tomsloger »
    @Joe
    Losing role info is a big deal.
    Imagine if we lynched a scum role blocker or something and didn't know that and lynch through neutraldawn and town shin?
    What if one of the people pushing scumaz rn is the actual doc that doesn't want to out themselves and scum kills them once were no flip.

    I put the order of likelihood for phoenix at lying scum>town>truthful scum.
    Still not voting there.


    Again your putting to much trust in a role that I dont think is town aligned, based on alot of curcumstances. So what if their are no flips? You act like town cant win flipless games.

    Quote from Axelrod »
    I wouldn't put it past Phoenix not to google other Bur games when coming up with the claim. It seemed kind of rushed, so I'd expect errors. Like, I can't think of a scenario where Jenna is scum besides being scum with Phoenix, so what worries me the most about lynching this guilty result (which is what it is) is that if Phoenix flips town, we don't get to automatic Jenna scum. So in a world where I can't imagine a scenario that makes Jenna scum, I trust her claim, but find it completely feasible that Phoenix's claim is made up, due to the number of holes in it.

    So, I take from this you are operating on the theory that scum-phoenix did not have his false-claim prepared at the time he initially denied that he targeted DV, and only came up with it on the fly after Jenna outted him?

    I have a harder time believing that.


    He had plenty of time to think about it

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    hmm did not know that, lol, well there goes my slight scum read on you down the drain
    yeah sure. you forget alot ~.~ I orchestrate my playstyles, kills, and actions, as beautifully as that AtE you so admire. lol


    @last manipulation why do u fall for it so easily?

    Quote from Axelrod »
    The problems with Phoenix's claim:

    1. Lynches: SO you think he visits the lynchee after there lynched to give us role info?

    I mean, mechanically, I have no issue with this. In as much as it's supposed to be a role that, as long as it's alive gives us full role reveals.
    2. Multiple kills: I have a hard time imagining a role that has to be in two places at once.

    I do not have a hard time imagining this. It is a bit bastardy.
    3. Bur has never hidden role info before.

    This was one of my first thoughts when he made the claim (or rather, my thought was - is this consistent with what Bur has done before). And it's not. Which leads me to the question, shouldn't Phoenix have thought about that too? Would he make a false claim like this knowing that it's inconsistent with the way Bur has always done it before?

    I mean, he might, but it's kind of sloppy of Phoenix to not check that, or very ballsy of him to check it and claim it anyway.
    I wouldn't put it past Phoenix not to google other Bur games when coming up with the claim. It seemed kind of rushed, so I'd expect errors. Like, I can't think of a scenario where Jenna is scum besides being scum with Phoenix, so what worries me the most about lynching this guilty result (which is what it is) is that if Phoenix flips town, we don't get to automatic Jenna scum. So in a world where I can't imagine a scenario that makes Jenna scum, I trust her claim, but find it completely feasible that Phoenix's claim is made up, due to the number of holes in it.


    I agree with terry here, I honestly if i cant gunrantee phoenix will be roleblocked I would like to see him lynched.

    Quote from Axelrod »
    He also, incidentally, gets caught with this claim if there are other roles out there (like, you know, an actual Watcher) and they don't see/track him to a death. Maybe the scum get around this by always having him be the one to do the kill, but as has been noted, he can get RBed, and then what? Are the scum going to miss a kill to try and frame him?


    Not ahrd if I cant roleblock him all that has to be done is dawn roleblocks him and we will have our answer.

    @Shin

    1. behaviorally, you focused too much on me while justifying it as a possible tunnel - instead of backing out and thinking it over.

    2. mechanically, you counterclaimed late. you had the ticket to escape the lynch on your townread, but you still hammered him, saying you intend to hound me if he flipped town - looks like fishing towncred off the dying townie. you yourself know and believe that town cannot have 2 of the same alignment, but now you're trying to argue that maybe this is just a tunnel and that we're both town. doesn't add up.

    3. I've seen a bulletproof SK. not sure about roleblocking. I really hope town will lynch me if that's the only way to prove my theory correct. I know I am town, so I'm sure you are scum - due to the fact you're a roleblocking variant. in fact, my flip will tie together many loose points. push my case if you actually scumread me, don't just sit on it knowing my lynch won't happen...because you're only 1 vote. fueling the Azrael wagon won't help you lynch me fyi.

    4. why do you feel the need to reference an old game then, in regards to role wording? I thought you said you don't care about other games, and only this one.

    5. but tell me...
    how do you intend to roleblock Phoenix Tonight? looking back at your claim, you're a Delayed Roleblocker who can block only by the next phase. there is also no guarantee that you will be paired up with Phoenix, or have the sufficient BP (4) to transfer the effects over since you're currently at (2).

    6. if your personal feelings are getting in the way, please calm down. I've had to hear you talking about me like I'm 'so smart' or 'acting like a god'. you're not one to talk about "petty behavior".



    @Tom @LnG
    if I am town, what does that make Shin? I know that I am town, that is why I'm sure Shin is scum. town cannot have 2 roleblockers, and Shin is too under-powered to be a neutral. if you want to argue that Dawn/Shin is town/neutral, then it's still fine to focus on us - you can figure out the neutral along with the setup. town is throwing away an important lead here if they won't lynch between Dawn/Shin.


    1.Ok when do i not tunnel miss meta? If you cant answer that properly then you cant possible see anything wrong with my acitons.

    2.It wasnt a counter claim 2 other people have clarly pointed out the differences actually your the only one who thinks its a counterclaim tbf lol, so likewise I don't care aobut this mechanical aspect you keep going back to. Cause again if I was scum why the hell would I wait till now to counterclaim, i aint an idiot i know how to play the game.

    3. Well I mean if you get lynched and flipp town ill still be flipping town, but I highly doubt your going to flip town with that role claim of yours.

    4.I don't but am i going to let myself get patronized? No of course not if I have to ill step outside my comfort zone.

    5.Delayed? If I am partnered with Phoenix and I betray him he will be role blocked that night. I obviously cant control it, so is this your way of justfiying my lynch is ok when your only able to clear yourself after night 3.

    6. Petty is one thing I am not, and i dont bring personal feelings into this game so please reframe from continuing to bring that up over and over its annoying.

    Quote from Axelrod »
    I made a whole long post about Phoenix and lost it. I'm not recreating it.

    Basically I concluded that as scum this would be a very elaborate planned out gambit - probably too elaborate - or a very fortuitous and quick thinking false claim from Phoenix - fortuitous because of his apparent role as "Carlos" which apparently fits this flavor very well (I know nothing of the flavor).


    I mean he had a while to think this through espically if he was scum, and thanks to those who didnt want to out their own actions it caused the whole sitaution to drag on. So he actually had quite a fair time to come up with the gambit. Which makes it even harder for me to believe this is a town claim.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Quote from Shinichi »
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Shinichi
    With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
    What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?

    Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
    Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...

    They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
    Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?


    I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.

    -Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.

    -That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.


    1. Then exactly why do you scum read her???
    2. I was a mafia doctor once, I know it can exist, again ur still wining urself... stop bringing this up, its not something we should be thinking about as of right now..
    3. Why?


    Her way of thinking and the swiss swassing with her reads.
    -When was this wtf?
    -Look at the post and read what you wrote its distasteful as a town to say yep i am locking my vote.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Shinichi
    With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then
    What does my post have to do with defending Dawn?

    Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
    Well I mean if you keep wining urself like this, your bound to get manipulated, we will deal with it as time comes, but the more you talk about it, the more that mafia can manipulate the game. Yes I know that Doc claims are scummy as hell, and yes Azrael as been scummy, as well as towny at points, will I be voting him today? Hell no...

    They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum
    Says who? your trying to lead town in a terrible direction, because as Grrr stated its still totally possible for you to both be town, with maybe one of you being being tpr... and if you flip scum, what then?


    I know its possible that 2 town roleblockers can exist, i literally just argued how our roles are different and completely balanced as town the fact that DBS doesnt see that is whats makng me think she is the scum roleblocker.

    -Ive seen a mafia doctor before, but i think in that setup there was a town vigilante with a 1 shot so was so hard to sort of the doctor. Stating it or not I doubt mafia are going to be like "Lets keep the doc and vig alive because 1 PERSON IS GOING TO SCUM READ THEM FOR SAIDA CTION" You think too highly of my 1 opnion and 1 vote.

    -That sort of logic makes me distrust your read on Osi.
    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    @DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
    killing roles are dicey and tend to fall in the tpr category. roleblockers are more likely to be scum than not, especially since we have a confirmed cop. if we had to choose between sorting the killing roles or the rb/manip roles, we best go for the manip roles. if we focus on the wrong point, it'll be bad all the way.
    then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.


    Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?

    Logically speaking do you think I am dumb enough to withhold doing somethat that would obviously get me scum read the longer I wait or say things that directly contradict my way of thinking? The answer is NO, because I dont think ur scum based on your role i think your scum bevhaorily.

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
    I think we need to get this clear: Dawn/Shin are both roleblockers. I don't see how 2 roleblockers can exist out of scum hands, especially when we have a confirmed investigative/cop. we're either town/scum or neutral/scum - or we're facing a possible 3rd roleblocker which is kinda unbalanced. how can you see Shin as town, if you think I'm neutral? there's scum in one of Dawn/Shin. even if you mislynch one, there's a guarantee of hitting scum by taking out the other one by next phase. it's impossible for 2 roleblockers to end up town/neutral, just impossible... how do the scumteam even defend themselves against all these abilities??

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Let's lynch Last! With great prejudice!
    lynch me first. if town is gonna ignore the basic of sorting counterclaims first and continue hitting lynches at random.... I have no words.


    Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.

    Quote from Azrael »
    Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?


    Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.


    Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...

    Osie
    You've been town hunting to be honest...


    With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    @Dawn:

    I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)

    As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?

    I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
    don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~


    Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.

    Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
    why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.


    They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum Grin

    Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.


    Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    @DBS, your RB is VERY easily thrown off. Also, Shin's RB is VERY limited, as he can only do it with those he's paired with that he chooses to betray. His active ability is exceedingly expensive. Frankly, I don't see how you can think that Iso and you can both exist as killing roles, but not think that Shin and you can exist. You're acting like both of you are full-pledged RB's.
    killing roles are dicey and tend to fall in the tpr category. roleblockers are more likely to be scum than not, especially since we have a confirmed cop. if we had to choose between sorting the killing roles or the rb/manip roles, we best go for the manip roles. if we focus on the wrong point, it'll be bad all the way.
    then again, Iso isn't off my radar and I think he could be scum, but the majority don't seem to be going for him...which could lead to another CFD. my suspects are Iso/Shin/Phoenix/Osie or Killjoy. not sure about Kaba/Cyth.


    Ive literally played with a SK that can roleblock and kill before so whats your point?

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    DBS - Gut says DBS is neutral... which is the main reason I'm not screaming for his head this moment. Could vote him, but not my favorite lynch today.
    I think we need to get this clear: Dawn/Shin are both roleblockers. I don't see how 2 roleblockers can exist out of scum hands, especially when we have a confirmed investigative/cop. we're either town/scum or neutral/scum - or we're facing a possible 3rd roleblocker which is kinda unbalanced. how can you see Shin as town, if you think I'm neutral? there's scum in one of Dawn/Shin. even if you mislynch one, there's a guarantee of hitting scum by taking out the other one by next phase. it's impossible for 2 roleblockers to end up town/neutral, just impossible... how do the scumteam even defend themselves against all these abilities??

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    Let's lynch Last! With great prejudice!
    lynch me first. if town is gonna ignore the basic of sorting counterclaims first and continue hitting lynches at random.... I have no words.


    Easy I cant control who my targets are, only you can and thats only as long as you saty at 3 bp. Which honestly seems very fair so idk what your on about if you looked at things mechanically you would see the balance in our roles.

    Quote from Azrael »
    Are you really saying shin is the correct play over the tracked guilty?


    Being tagged by a watcher would be a lot more damning than being tagged by a tracker, with a plausible explanation and a squeaky clean behavioral record. I'm not terribly ecstatic about the role explanation and the possible mod retcon, but I think there are far superior targets from a behavioral standpoint.


    Your welcome to explain your view on me then mr. scum

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    ya my vote is locked on Osie, if you want to tell me his behavior is of town, then fine, but im not changing my vote... and if you want to vote me, thats also fine...

    Osie
    You've been town hunting to be honest...


    With this sort of logic defending dawn ill say my vote is locked on dawn then

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    @Dawn:

    I think that #5170 more than answers your side of the discussion of question 3. I think I'm okay with your answer. (Oh hey, you said something similar to what I said to Last about the end of that discussion. Didn't notice that. Amusing.)

    As for #5, your answer for the reasoning behind the slight back-off on your townread of Last is that "you had your doubts with the way he was scumreading Azrael?" What about his scumread on Azrael did you not like? Was there anything else that you didn't like? Why or why not? And, I reiterate: What about Last has been so OVERWHELMINGLY townie that he's been seemingly towncleared for you since like two or three pages into the game or something like that?

    I explained a few times about why Last is town. he's a rather easy person to read, and not good at lying. I'm not the only one who townreads him btw, you can question Axel or Tom. the only one who thinks it's hard, or makes it look hard, is you. that is an admirable feat, but too flattering to be true.
    don't pull up posts if you're going to argue over it in terms of semantics or clarifications. I've had enough to deal with Shinichi ~.~


    Its not that we are bad at lieing its the fact that we're decent human beings and dont like lieing even for a so called fictional game lol.

    Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.
    why not Shin? you want Azrael to protect me, which means I'm more likely a townread. Shin's claim is a direct counter to my role, and he claimed it after a mislynch. I think with 2 possible roleblockers, sorting us is better.


    They're welcome to sort me out, but once I die your immediatly going to be scum read due to the fact you believe 2 town cant exist when in face im town, so if this is true then your scum Grin

    Yeah and I think AZ has been damn scummy, but he's claimed dr. If we aren't lynching people based on their play and taking role claims into consideration then I think Phoenix is a good lynch. Scum need to kill AZ or risk he actually stops the kill. Or they need to kill jenna, but AZ could protect jenna, so they have to kill az.


    Doc will eventually be night killed just like the vig claim, but if they arent then what?
    8

    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    @Dawn #5148

    Doesnt matter if you prove your vigilante or not at this point when you literally could just be mafia making a night kill or a mafia with a double shot/delayed shot. As for this post now I will most def stop your shot, because now your doing what LNG did which is assuming that a specific action can only come from scum which is exactly why i dislike LNG slot.

    No scum will most likely kill you when ur able to shoot, if they don't then its pretty obvious what your alignment is at this point. Mafia aren't dumb enough to allow a vig shot to go unchallenged.

    Also I don't like when others point out rule breakings so plz dont be petty doing it to others.

    Posted in: Mafia
  • posted a message on Zero Escape Mafia - Day 2 - Unlucky Seven
    Quote from Kabazame »
    @KJ Yes, Coroner is an uncommon role. Passive coroner is pretty much unheard of as far as I know. Furthermore, typically a coroner has to pick his target so he would only get one reveal a night. Phoenix's role gets all of them and the lynch as well, while the Coroner would typically have to use his Night Action to get a flip. Also because it's a passive, I don't think you can role block it (like you can't roleblock Bulletproof) though I could be mistaken.

    So his role is a lot stronger than your typical Coroner, and apparently Bur has never used a No Reveal setup before. So there are a lot of assumptions to be made in order for Phoenix to be Town. What I mean by "how does it seem legit?" is that all there really is to support his claim is that he said it. There's no precedent for this role. There is however countless examples of scum being tracked to the night kill. That's why it's the simplest explanation.

    At least you do seem to be thinking about this clearly. At first I thought you were just blindly defending him but I'm starting to see a real thought process behind it now.


    No harm in me testing that theory if hes my partner. Idc about bursamas other games, i care about this game. Only reason I dislike the claim is because its way way to convienent.

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    personally would like to reserve Shinichi for vigshot~


    There's no way that scum lets town!Dawning get in a vigshot... Why would you make this post?


    Of course they would if they think shes going to.

    1.They know she will misfire
    2. Shes scum

    Quote from Lastwhisper »
    Quote from osieorb18 »
    personally would like to reserve Shinichi for vigshot~


    There's no way that scum lets town!Dawning get in a vigshot... Why would you make this post?
    trust me, I am keeping an eye on her... if I have any reason to believe she is scum, she will not get that vig shot off... lmao


    I don't trust you in the slighest

    Quote from osieorb18 »
    @Jenna: Why did you go with this elaborate plan of pretending to be a watcher targeting D_V? Why not just say outright that you tracked Phoenix to D_V? This seems, well, overwrought.

    Like, there wasn't even a gain from someone claiming that they visited D_V for something different. Phoenix looks marginally more suspect, but he's also been one of the towniest players this entire game. It's not significant enough after his claim.


    Why does it matter, the way jenna did it feels like town regardless, the fact that some people overreacted says alot aobut their own alignments.


    [@LnG #5115]
    Ally while Betrayed until I reach 1 BP, stay at Betray while Betrayed.

    even if that person is a scumread (e.g. Iso), I will stick to the plan. anyone who tries to increase my BP and justify it later is just hindering the town, especially when I fullclaimed - it's best for town to prove my claim as soon as possible, especially when there's no vig CC.

    [@Killjoy #5116]
    aha! was trying to think what's the inverse of a Janitor. I rolled Coroner before~ it was in that starship game where even the vig could be scum...nothing guarantees alignment. Phoenix being unaware of his role doesn't seem fake.


    hmmmmm... since Phoenix is a passive 'coroner', he's probably the neutral. a passive that serves a use to the setup, yet doesn't require any BP, seems more fitting for neutral. I have BP requirements so idk how everyone thinks I could be neutral - this means I'm either scum or town, and Shin/Iso is the opposite. yes!

    with this I can outrule a Phoenix/Killjoy scumteam possiblity. missing scum probably in Osie/Cyth/Kaba. Osie is really hard to figure out lol...so much socializing. Kaba's lurk vote on Last at EoD1 still noted.


    You do realize asking me to help you without knowing your alignment is a load of bull. I already plan to betray certain people that I distrust and want to figre out. Phoenix being one of those people since i want to test out if his so called passive can be roleblocked.

    Quote from LnGrrrR »
    Additional: Killjoy, did you read the link you posted?

    "In some games, the roles of the dead players are only revealed if the coroner(s) remains alive. In this case, it can be Mafia aligned, creating a dilemma upon revelation."

    Just saying.


    Time to vote phoenix then

    Quote from Shinichi »
    Talking about the silence of the lambs mafia game lol
    what is the correlation in "town in your role pm doesn't mean you're town". does that mean the role pm in the other game had town in all of them??


    Dont see why this correlation is relevant seeing as how the hosts are different, and my talk about that mafia game had nothing to do with my role pm in this game. Was just an interaction with palyers from that game.
    Posted in: Mafia
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