Hi, all, what is everyone's thoughts on what to replace Reflector Mage? Maybe Deadeye Harpooner instead of Reflector Mage? It's better against decks that use Vial that can just play the bounced creature again. It's slightly easier to cast at 1 white, 2 colourless. I feel there are enough fetches to activate this card.
The major downside, of course, is that the targeted creature has to be tapped. But it combos well with Retreat to Coralhelm.
I'm just finding Reflector Mage underwhelming in certain matchups, and too much of a win-more against Shadow decks, and only a slight deterrent against similar mirror decks.
I don't think it's a good replacement. Sure, the casting is easier but in the worst case you hit her in a Company and your opponent has no tapped creautre/you have no Revolt-trigger. Imo Fiend Hunter is even better than Deadeye Harpooner. Also I'm a huge fan of Reflector Mage.
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I'm moving from Human Knightfall to classic Knightfall and need some help - here is my current list:
First of all some choice I have to explain: Wooded Foothills over Misty Rainforest - obvious budget cut
2nd Temple Garden - no Canopys at my LGS... so it's budget.
3x Noble Hierarch - I didn't manage to get a 4th Hierarch... What's your opinion on the amount of manadorks? In the Humanbuild 7 was right because the curve was a little bit lower and I could play more aggro with a Champion of the Parsih. Intuitively I would play 7 dorks. Voice of Resurgence - never played with the card. What is the right number to play here? Some posts earlier somebody stated that Voice is good is almost every matchup. I share that opinion. Reflector Mage - MVP in the humanbuild! Some classic lists play 0 other play up to 4 (split main and side). What's the forums opinion?
The sideboard is just an idea for now. In the humanbuild I had 1x Bojuka Bog but I think with ScOoze I have enough graveyardhate.
Any tips you have? As an longtime aggro-player it's a new world playing the midrangestuff.
Thank you in advance
Any Budget concerns are acceptable. Magic is retardedly expensive compared to most games so I understand if you are making cuts and considerations because of it.
Voice of Resurgence is a weird. It deters opponents from interacting with it and you on your turn, thereby discouraging reactive interaction, yet it is not a proactive card. The only reason you'd want it is because of various flavors of interactive Blue and Black decks. The X/X body is leaves behind is nice, but Voice has to die in order for you take advantage of it, and if your board is huge then a huge voice is not necessarily winning you the game unless your board is a bunch of misfits creatures. That being said, it is still an amazing creature and helps you stabilize the board against aggressive decks and is a HUGE pain to deal with as blue decks. In this current meta, Voice is an excellent inclusion to the deck at around 2-3 copies.
Reflector Mage will always be a good card regardless of the style of deck. Yes it's great when your deck geared towards killing your opponent really fast, but it also halts aggression and board development. "Classic Knightfall" is a big midrange tempo deck and being able to disrupt your opponents rhythm, stymie their board development, and deny their aggression is a powerful tool. Our goldfish (outside of the combo) is pathetic lol. You really want to spend your time developing your board WHILST denying your opponent from doing what they want to do. In conjunction with a Knight of the Reliquary, suddenly your 2/3s are like 3/4s or 4/5s while they're trying to get back into the game. The only times Reflector Mage sucks is when you have no follow up (basically no power cards) but that has nothing to do with the card, so much you just didn't have gas lol. Also, this deck just has no good VIABLE removal aside from Path to Exile, so having a creature act as pseudo removal or you can just cast/get off coco to attack is nice. Yes it's a 2/3, but it's what we got yenno lol
Courser is great, but it really depends on what your goals are with it.
Eternal Witness also falls into that description but is a bit more flexible so if you want it, put it in lol
BFT... lol no
Elspeth is excellent if you get into insane board stalls or you're playing Geist of Saint Traft, but currently the meta is unforgiving for her and as much as I hate to say it, you shouldn't play her unless you know what's in the room. (She's my favorite planeswalker </3)
Gideon on the other hand is excellent because the stream of bodies are much more relevant than elspeths (2/2 vs. 1/1), it's a 5/5, and most importantly, it's anthem is so powerful against Jeskai.
It's awkward trying to conceptualize this deck as a midrange deck because things aren't as apparent as other midrange decks, but basically the way you build midrange decks are with Disruption, Aggression (a strong clock), Flexible Utility, and Card Advantage. You're trying to deny what your opponent is doing with disruption and flexible utility whilst killing them with an indomitable board state (ex. 3 5/6 Tarmogoyfs, 2 7/7 Death's Shadows, etc.), or an insurmountable card advantage (pro tip: if you have more stuff than your opponent, unless they can come up with lethal, you're going to win lol xD).
It's very win more and the situations where you'd want it are so specific. It is awesome to go "IN RESPONSE!!!" to a removal spell on Knight and they got completely blown out making it a 2 for 1 with a single activation. It might be better to have Sejiri Steppe in the G/W Value Town because that kind of trick is valuable when you can keep Azusa and Ramunap on the board. In this deck however it's to cute and too much time taken away instead of bashing in, getting Gavony or Kessig, drawing off Canopy, blowing up lands, or ramping (hardly enough space to plug in a Sejiri steppe).
It’s less mana intensive as opposed to EE and it takes out any non-land permanent. It’s that nice 1-of that just removes something(s). Kinda like a 1-of Council’s Judgment in some ways.
Jace’s ability to rebuy spells is useful sometimes but it’s not worth the slot. It’s sometimes difficult to flip even with fetchlands and the Match-ups where casting CoCo is awesome is also the match-ups where it’ll die before it flips. It’s not as valuable as utility creatures, the second or third Tireless Tracker, or another disruptive 3 drop creature.
Dusk//Dawn is strong against big creatures for sure and Dawn is just overkill against fair decks. It is however slow but it’s such a powerful restart button that I could see a single copy. Settle the Wreckage is good against those decks you’ve mentioned but it seems to narrow and conditional ESPECIALLY as a 1-of. It’s not nearly as good as Dusk//Dawn because you can cast it as soon as you have the mana necessary. You get into a lot of creature stalls and they may not even attack; they also have disruption to prevent you from casting Settle the Wreckage at a critical juncture. Yes these things apply to Dusk//Dawn as well, but you can just cast it as soon as it’s available as opposed to Settle the Wreckage where they have to attack, which, unless you’re behind, they may not considering we play to the board and stalls occur quite often.
Gotta get aggressive as best as your draws allow you too. You’re not beating this style of a Company deck late game without a displacer. In the past I found that if I just stop displacer from hitting the board or I path it, I’ll eventually just roll Bant Eldrazi decks over. If, however, I let them resolve it, so long as they have good starts like T2/T3 Thought-Knot Seer followed up by a Smasher, then it gets really difficult to win. Also Queller destroys everything other than smasher and drowner, which aren’t really as important to us in the long run so be careful!!!
If you’re playing large numbers of trackers and reflector Mage then you shouldn’t really need more cards to win your Midrange MU’s. That being said, at least have a slot or two (or cards that can overlap into those MUs like kitchen finks for example) so you can give yourself an even higher chance of winning those MUs (always win your good/close MUs!!!). I think you’d rather want Gideon at 2 or even 3 if you’re straight up always losing in those MUs.
I've been wondering how people are configuring both their MB and SB because I've been a bit stuck on what the sideboard and flex slots should be. My current list it:
Lands:
Windswept Heath x 4
Misty Rainforest x 4
Flooded Strand x 1
Breeding Pool x 1
Hallowed Fountain x 1
Temple Garden x 1
Stomping Ground x 1
Horizon Canopy x 1
Gavony Township x 1
Rogue's Passage x 1
Ghost Quarter x 1
Plains x 2
Forest x 3
Creatures:
Noble Hierarch x 4
Birds of Paradise x 4
Knight of the Reliquary x 4
Spell Queller x 4
Reflector Mage x 4
Tireless Tracker x 3
Selfless Spirit x 2
Scavenging Ooze x 2
Qasali Pridemage x 2
Spells:
Path to Exile x 4
Collected Company x 4
Retreat to Coralhelm x 2
Sideboard:
Izzet Staticaster x 3
Gaddock Teeg x 2
Stony Silence x 2
Unified Will x 4
I left the sideboard unfinished because it's always changing; every week I'm unsatisfied with the SB because I'm trying to find the most universal sideboard for every MU. I think it's possible to accomplish when you have so many cards available that have general application to anything. Knight of the Reliquary is one of the most flexible and powerful creature at 3CMC in all of magic. It's capable of accomplishing so many things when you get to untap with it, along side "one shotting" an opponent being part of a 2 card interaction. Spell Queller hits EVERY SPELL 4CMC and under. It's basically an answer to most in the format. Reflector Mage can answer and tempo out any legal target, whether that'd be key creatures, combo pieces, and decimates big fatties like delve threats or Eldrazi. Tireless Tracker is an ever growing gigantic threat that draws you more of everything else in your deck that's awesome lol. Your 2 drops have application in MOST match ups. Collected Company ties this all together and allows you to have a cohesive, tempo-oriented disruptive, aggressive strategy that isn't vulnerable to "grindy" decks. You tie this together with 4 Unified Will (COUNTERSPELLLLL) and you begun sowing a plan that combats all strategies.
I guess what I really want to know is what have your plans for building a sideboard been based on. I'm having a hard time filling out the sideboard week after week and I'm opening up my choices to your suggestions.
Also, I think Voice is just a poor choice and isn't really something that NEEDS to be a part of the deck. It's SUPER nice to have in particular MU's but that's almost it. Most of the time, it's a 2/2 that makes your opponent play on their turn, which does offer a bit if disruption but isn't as good as most people think unless you're playing against blue or G/B/x. It's value in those scenarios are reasonable, but your opponent is just going to kill it on your turn, and then wipe your board with a verdict. Against other midrange decks, it's NICE to have, but it's not necessarily game breaking; it's merely a hurdle your opponent needs to jump over. If you're in a scenario with a dominating presence or you anticipate a Liliana and you play a Voice then it's pretty good but it's just the cherry on top and not back breaking. If anything, I'd rather have Tireless Tracker because it gives me immediate pressure and value, staying power in it's "X-for-1" with the surplus of clues you accrue, and can win the game by itself. I'm not discrediting it's usefulness to be a great blocker, present itself as multiple bodies for 1 card (ESPECIALLY against aggressive decks), and potentially leave you with an ever growing body, but for the purposes of this deck, it feels more like a "luxury" rather than a necessity. It's nice to have a 6/6 token for free, but it's also nice to have a deck that has every single one of it's slots filled with purpose and necessity.
In regards to control decks, they’re just playing a strategy that kinda beats yours and you have so many blanks depending on your list. They’ll never let you resolve a Knight (especially with Retreat), Path and any number of Reflector Mage dont accomplish anything (2/3 body is kinda bad), birds don’t accomplish anything without your 1-of Gavony, Qasali Pridemage is a 2/2 lol, and your aggressive starts are entirely predicated on your opening. Unless your in a dominating lead, Voice doesn’t really amount to much in general. If they have a Verdict, they’ll just path it on your turn and wipe the board, effectively making Voice a 2/2. That said, if you can develop the board and they’re stumbling on removal, permission, and/or lands then you can just kill them with anything. Higher numbers of Tireless Tracker, Geist of Saint Traft, Thrun, counterspells, resilient threats like Voice and Finks, and planeswalkers can wreak havoc and present problems for the Control player to get to the late game stage of the game efficiently and do their powerful game plan. And yes, Selfless Spirit is awesome lmao.
Land Denial isn’t so much a problem IF you’re able to develop a board of mana dorks, fetch basics (I currently play around 5-6), Spell Queller, and disenchant effects from Qasali Pridemage and Fracturing Gust postboard. You’re generally a lot better against those things because you run like 8 mana dorks and Knight of the Reliquary.
In regards to an early Blood Moon, there’s not much you can do unless you fetch for a forest specifically and play out mana dorks and blow it up with a Pridemage. You can also just kill your opponent and have it not matter lmao.
It really revolves around whether you’re playing Druid Vizier combo or not. Then it comes down to whether or not you’re playing reflector Mage (what amount in main or side) or not at all. Then after you’ve decided you play at least 1 retreat, ALWAYS 8 mana dorks, and some combination of value creatures and disruptive ones. It’s so flexible from there so you gotta be a bit specific about what you’re trying to prepare for.
I don’t think there’s much to extract from your win/loss rates. There’s so many facets to winning and losing that trying to discern anything regarding the “tightness” of your play or your thought process during sideboarding is a fools errand. You should concern yourself with how much your losing and why.
In regards to what you could have done to do better, it’s hard to figure out because you don’t have replays to see what you should have done. Magic has a lot of its successful results predicated on a big chunk of luck and it’s also the same with losing. You could have been dealt poor hands and matchups but always remember there’s something YOU could have done better.
Any Budget concerns are acceptable. Magic is retardedly expensive compared to most games so I understand if you are making cuts and considerations because of it.
Voice of Resurgence is a weird. It deters opponents from interacting with it and you on your turn, thereby discouraging reactive interaction, yet it is not a proactive card. The only reason you'd want it is because of various flavors of interactive Blue and Black decks. The X/X body is leaves behind is nice, but Voice has to die in order for you take advantage of it, and if your board is huge then a huge voice is not necessarily winning you the game unless your board is a bunch of misfits creatures. That being said, it is still an amazing creature and helps you stabilize the board against aggressive decks and is a HUGE pain to deal with as blue decks. In this current meta, Voice is an excellent inclusion to the deck at around 2-3 copies.
Reflector Mage will always be a good card regardless of the style of deck. Yes it's great when your deck geared towards killing your opponent really fast, but it also halts aggression and board development. "Classic Knightfall" is a big midrange tempo deck and being able to disrupt your opponents rhythm, stymie their board development, and deny their aggression is a powerful tool. Our goldfish (outside of the combo) is pathetic lol. You really want to spend your time developing your board WHILST denying your opponent from doing what they want to do. In conjunction with a Knight of the Reliquary, suddenly your 2/3s are like 3/4s or 4/5s while they're trying to get back into the game. The only times Reflector Mage sucks is when you have no follow up (basically no power cards) but that has nothing to do with the card, so much you just didn't have gas lol. Also, this deck just has no good VIABLE removal aside from Path to Exile, so having a creature act as pseudo removal or you can just cast/get off coco to attack is nice. Yes it's a 2/3, but it's what we got yenno
Courser is great, but it really depends on what your goals are with it.
Eternal Witness also falls into that description but is a bit more flexible so if you want it, put it in lol
BFT... lol no
Elspeth is excellent if you get into insane board stalls or you're playing Geist of Saint Traft, but currently the meta is unforgiving for her and as much as I hate to say it, you shouldn't play her unless you know what's in the room. (She's my favorite planeswalker </3)
Gideon on the other hand is excellent because the stream of bodies are much more relevant than elspeths (2/2 vs. 1/1), it's a 5/5, and most importantly, it's anthem is so powerful against Jeskai.
It's awkward trying to conceptualize this deck as a midrange deck because things aren't as apparent as other midrange decks, but basically the way you build midrange decks are with Disruption, Aggression (a strong clock), Flexible Utility, and Card Advantage. You're trying to deny what your opponent is doing with disruption and flexible utility whilst killing them with an indomitable board state (ex. 3 5/6 Tarmogoyfs, 2 7/7 Death's Shadows, etc.), or an insurmountable card advantage (pro tip: if you have more stuff than your opponent, unless they can come up with lethal, you're going to win lol xD).
Dusk//Dawn is strong against big creatures for sure and Dawn is just overkill against fair decks. It is however slow but it’s such a powerful restart button that I could see a single copy. Settle the Wreckage is good against those decks you’ve mentioned but it seems to narrow and conditional ESPECIALLY as a 1-of. It’s not nearly as good as Dusk//Dawn because you can cast it as soon as you have the mana necessary. You get into a lot of creature stalls and they may not even attack; they also have disruption to prevent you from casting Settle the Wreckage at a critical juncture. Yes these things apply to Dusk//Dawn as well, but you can just cast it as soon as it’s available as opposed to Settle the Wreckage where they have to attack, which, unless you’re behind, they may not considering we play to the board and stalls occur quite often.
Lands:
Windswept Heath x 4
Misty Rainforest x 4
Flooded Strand x 1
Breeding Pool x 1
Hallowed Fountain x 1
Temple Garden x 1
Stomping Ground x 1
Horizon Canopy x 1
Gavony Township x 1
Rogue's Passage x 1
Ghost Quarter x 1
Plains x 2
Forest x 3
Creatures:
Noble Hierarch x 4
Birds of Paradise x 4
Knight of the Reliquary x 4
Spell Queller x 4
Reflector Mage x 4
Tireless Tracker x 3
Selfless Spirit x 2
Scavenging Ooze x 2
Qasali Pridemage x 2
Spells:
Path to Exile x 4
Collected Company x 4
Retreat to Coralhelm x 2
Sideboard:
Izzet Staticaster x 3
Gaddock Teeg x 2
Stony Silence x 2
Unified Will x 4
I left the sideboard unfinished because it's always changing; every week I'm unsatisfied with the SB because I'm trying to find the most universal sideboard for every MU. I think it's possible to accomplish when you have so many cards available that have general application to anything. Knight of the Reliquary is one of the most flexible and powerful creature at 3CMC in all of magic. It's capable of accomplishing so many things when you get to untap with it, along side "one shotting" an opponent being part of a 2 card interaction. Spell Queller hits EVERY SPELL 4CMC and under. It's basically an answer to most in the format. Reflector Mage can answer and tempo out any legal target, whether that'd be key creatures, combo pieces, and decimates big fatties like delve threats or Eldrazi. Tireless Tracker is an ever growing gigantic threat that draws you more of everything else in your deck that's awesome lol. Your 2 drops have application in MOST match ups. Collected Company ties this all together and allows you to have a cohesive, tempo-oriented disruptive, aggressive strategy that isn't vulnerable to "grindy" decks. You tie this together with 4 Unified Will (COUNTERSPELLLLL) and you begun sowing a plan that combats all strategies.
I guess what I really want to know is what have your plans for building a sideboard been based on. I'm having a hard time filling out the sideboard week after week and I'm opening up my choices to your suggestions.
Also, I think Voice is just a poor choice and isn't really something that NEEDS to be a part of the deck. It's SUPER nice to have in particular MU's but that's almost it. Most of the time, it's a 2/2 that makes your opponent play on their turn, which does offer a bit if disruption but isn't as good as most people think unless you're playing against blue or G/B/x. It's value in those scenarios are reasonable, but your opponent is just going to kill it on your turn, and then wipe your board with a verdict. Against other midrange decks, it's NICE to have, but it's not necessarily game breaking; it's merely a hurdle your opponent needs to jump over. If you're in a scenario with a dominating presence or you anticipate a Liliana and you play a Voice then it's pretty good but it's just the cherry on top and not back breaking. If anything, I'd rather have Tireless Tracker because it gives me immediate pressure and value, staying power in it's "X-for-1" with the surplus of clues you accrue, and can win the game by itself. I'm not discrediting it's usefulness to be a great blocker, present itself as multiple bodies for 1 card (ESPECIALLY against aggressive decks), and potentially leave you with an ever growing body, but for the purposes of this deck, it feels more like a "luxury" rather than a necessity. It's nice to have a 6/6 token for free, but it's also nice to have a deck that has every single one of it's slots filled with purpose and necessity.
Land Denial isn’t so much a problem IF you’re able to develop a board of mana dorks, fetch basics (I currently play around 5-6), Spell Queller, and disenchant effects from Qasali Pridemage and Fracturing Gust postboard. You’re generally a lot better against those things because you run like 8 mana dorks and Knight of the Reliquary.
In regards to an early Blood Moon, there’s not much you can do unless you fetch for a forest specifically and play out mana dorks and blow it up with a Pridemage. You can also just kill your opponent and have it not matter lmao.
In regards to what you could have done to do better, it’s hard to figure out because you don’t have replays to see what you should have done. Magic has a lot of its successful results predicated on a big chunk of luck and it’s also the same with losing. You could have been dealt poor hands and matchups but always remember there’s something YOU could have done better.