So I've been looking at the spoiler for the past three days and I probably won't be buying BFZ. A lot of the commons, uncommons, and rares so far look like draft cards and I'm going to mistake that for the set being underpowered. Ulamog doesn't suffle back when he dies, so he can't stop mill and therefore is garbage and not viable for modern play. Gideon is bad because he looks like Xenagos and Xenagos isn't seeing play at this moment so he must be bad too?? The lands are just strictly worse shocklands and standard rotates in 18 months so why bother buying them anyways? Overall the set feels gimmicky; why do "colorless matters" when there are clearly colored mana symbols on the card? I don't think there will be much value in bfz because the rares are bad and the full arts won't add value because everyone knows that basics in standard are worth nothing, so my frame of reference is absolute and correct about every new card. Not only that but you'll never see the full art shock lands, they're just a blatant cash grab from wotc. Overall I am an amateur who's been playing since Theros but since I won my FNM one time in March I am a master at evaluating new cards, and take my expert opinion to forums so players can get mad at just how wrong I am.
My deck (post rotation) is pretty much set in stone. I took out -1 land, -3 jace's ingenuity for x4 Anticipate.
What I am not sure about is the "flexibile" slots. Due to anticipate, I could see cutting another land, 1 crux, and 1-2 bile blights.
The question becomes what to replace those cards with. I'm thinking it will be 100% meta dependent, so its hard to tell.
Another question: can we go down to 26 lands with the inclusion of anticipate? We still have huge spells to cast... (see Ugin).
I'm planning on running 26 land with four Anticipate -- I don't think it will be a problem at all, personally.
The disconnect here is that your view of a “good” game has no bearing outside a kitchen table, whereas mine is rooted in the spirit of competitive play, proper manners, and good etiquette — not subjective emotional feelings such as whether or not it was “memorable” or “fun”.
I will be quite honest: I don’t particularly care if my opponent did or did not have fun — I care about whether or not we sparred in a competitive fashion under the guidelines I originally posted. If we conducted ourselves in an adult and sportsman like manner, abiding by the rules of the game, then it was a good game. Fun is subjective; sparring within a prescribed set of guidelines is not.
You are right that I don’t enjoy getting mana screwed. I don’t enjoy it because it hampers my ability to win — which is the entire point of competitive play. What I don’t do is whinge like a child about it. I accept that it happened and after the match I offer to shake my opponents hand, wish them the best of luck in the next round, and say good games. If they are the first to offer then I accept their offer for a handshake, wish them luck, and say good games. That’s the proper thing to do.
Have you ever watched professional tennis? When Roger Federer was at his prime? He would routinely win matches in consecutive sets, barely letting his opponent onto the board. Yet every time after Federer would destroy someone, they would meet at the net and exchange pleasantries because that’s what mature adults do. Did his opponent enjoy getting embarrassed, perhaps on worldwide television, by Roger Federer? I highly doubt it. That also does not justify the refusal to exchange pleasantries or to cop an attitude.
Remember when the Seattle Seahawks won the Super Bowl last year? They crushed the Denver Broncos in an embarrassing fashion. It was not close. Yet those very same Denver Broncos congratulated the winning Seattle team and, in the face of a very emotional defeat, conducted themselves as professionals and mature adults.
This is no different. At all. You do not have to enjoy the match you lost. That lack of enjoyment does not excuse you, or anyone, from conducting themselves as mature adults with proper manners. It simply does not.
As for the image issue: Your area does not constitute the greater Magic community. This is an issue that has been addressed at length by numerous people, including professionals. Yes, the Magic community has image issues, most of which are completely justified based on the way a very significant amount of players conduct themselves (I.E., with offensive language that belittles women and minorities, both racial and sexual, not to mention the propensity of Magic players to use 'retarded' as a pejorative, which is incredibly offensive and insensitive; immaturity, and incredibly poor social skills) and present themselves (I.E., poor personal hygiene and/or lack of proper grooming). The incredibly childish and immature attitudes being displayed by some individuals in this thread do nothing but reinforce the notion that Magic players have poor social skills and are immature.
Magic is a game of skill, and one of its parameters is luck -- when you sit down across from an opponent for a match, be it competitive or friendly, you are accepting the parameters of this game. You know, and accept, that you may win or lose, that you may have mana difficulties, that you may play poorly (or well), that you may be outplayed by an opponents mental game (or vice versa), so on and so forth. Any game that is fought fairly (which means within the rules and parameters of the game), with honour and within the spirit and rules of the game, is a good game. Whether or not you get mana flooded or mana screwed is irrelevant and does not change the meaning of "good game". The only time a game is not "good" is when one player cheats (thus violating the rules/spirit of the game) or one player conducts themselves in an unsportsmanlike manner (thus violating the parameters of competitive play/spirit of the game). If neither of these have occurred, then the game was, in fact, good.
The concept that a game can only be "good" when the loser loses under certain circumstances (must have had an equal chance to win, no mana screw, no mana flood, must draw well, et al) is one of the most self-centred and immature things I have heard in some time from this community. The world does not revolve around any one person, so this self-centred immaturity is, point blank, without justification and unacceptable. It is borderline unsportsmanlike as well.
The Magic community as a whole has massive image and reputation issues, and some of the attitudes being displayed here only reinforce the negative image and reputation the larger community has. Stop being part of the problem.
#178, LnG: A hunch eh? I think I understand what you’re trying to say.
#183, DCIII: I didn’t stop to think about Tan’s post in that way — in retrospect, I agree.
#185, BlackVise: There’s a difference between minimalism — not saying a lot, posting infrequently — and simply not commenting on anything. I suppose my point is that there was quite a lot going on, and with your first post you left a plethora of topics on the table and we don’t know your thought(s) on them.
Perhaps gambit wasn't quite the word to use, but I figured that HP may be claiming to avoid being lynched right now. Her post about potential repercussions then seemed as thought she realized that her choice of role would actually have the complete opposite effect and was trying to backtrack.
HP wasn’t even under pressure when she claimed IC? This makes no sense.
Unvote; Vote: BlackVise
#186, Wildfire: It takes 10 seconds to figure out which page your post(s) are on. It would be page 5 for Posts 110,113, and 115. I’m not going to quote two dozen posts in a single post when I’m doing a big catch up post.
And I still want responses from Posts 113 and 115.
* The fence-sitty post #51 doesn't sit well with me.
And this is just crazy. Why should anyone have a strong read one way or the other 51 posts into the game? Especially in regards to a claimed miller! Bur's cautious, skeptical view of the situation is exactly what he should be feeling!
And to finally answer your question, I actually really like the questions Bur has been asking. Him trying to get you and WG to support your reads is anything but a point against him, and later, I felt that when he turned his attention to Rai and Cantrip, those where good signs of actual scum hunting. And to a smaller extent, I feel like his thoughts regarding the HP situation were more likely town (such as being concerned about whether we lose a lynch in testing).
Yes and no. It's unlikely that someone would have a strong opinion about another player at this stage, but the language that was used stood out. "I'll give her a pass, for now" is a really scummy way to say "I don't have a read on her". It comes across as an attempt to try to appeal to other players' townreads while leaving a door open to pursue it later rather than just saying "it's too early for me to have a read on her (him)".
Re: the questions Bur has been asking:
-Clarifying TMCT is a cat
-2x "elaborate on Arian read"
-Why would HP vote for herself
-2x clarification on HP's ability
-Question to Rai uses an incorrect premise
-Question to Cantrip is a rehash of what has already been asked
None of those seem particularly compelling to me.
/barn
I’ll finish pages 9 to current Saturday.
@Mod/All: My GRE exam is in two weeks so I’ll be the same semi-activity until its over. I’m finishing the math portion of the prep (the hardest) come Sunday, so I’ll be somewhat more active next week than I currently am.
#14, Arianrhod: Why not just full claim here?
#22, Tanarin: Agree with the full claim.
#23, LnG: Try to explain. I’m curious.
#26, Rhand: Probably.
#30, Wildfire: I hate this post with a passion. There’s no point to it; it’s a “busy post”. Like you’re trying to be active, but not being active.
#33, Tanarin: Something about this just… rubs me wrong. Do you agree or disagree that Wildfire’s #30 was terrible and why?
#34, Wildfire: Same as #30. I do not like this post at all.
#38, HP: I’ll buy it.
#51, Bur: This answer to Tanarin was wholly unsatisfying. If you would have done the same thing, shouldn’t you have a generally positive opinion towards Arianrhod? What were you hoping to gain/figure out by asking others how they reached their conclusion on him?
Vote: Bur
#60, Killjoy: Agreed.
#69, Rai: Terrible post is terrible. It’s just filler nonsense.
#71, DCIII: Why does Tanarin’s 67 feel self-conscious? Agree re: Rai
#77, BlackVise: This is your first post and you elected to not comment on the many other things that’ve been going on? Not a fan of this post.
#89, DCIII: iRebel thanks this post. Add Bur and Wildfire to the list of early scum reads.
#90, Cantrip: Why the random arbitrary statistical figure? If its “probably the right play” to test HPs claim, then why does it matter when it happens?
#96, Cythare: /barn.
#107, Cythare re: #104, Karn: /barn
#110, Wildfire: How is this anything but hairsplitting?
#113, Wildfire: Enlighten us.
#115, Wildfire: I’m confused by this post. Can you explain what you were trying to say because my head spins whenever I read it.
#123, Rai: Well that’s your second awful post.
Unvote; Vote: Rai
#124, Hans: Same as BlackVise… your first post and you have zero to say about anything that’s been going on?
#126, Tammy: I agree on testing HP claim; I don’t much see a point in testing it toDay but if it’s going to be a distraction then I’m okay with it.
@BlackVise, LnG, Hans, Rhand, Killjoy, Kamikaze: What do you think of Bur and Rai?
#159, KCC: I agree that Tanarin is giving weird vibes but why do you dislike him more than Rai? When I look at #77 I don’t see anything particularly good or useful from it, and that 77 posts in there was plenty to comment on.
What points of favour do you see in it?
EWP: Nevermind the first question re: Tan.
I want to lynch: Rai, Tanarin
I’m okay lynching: Bur, Wildfire
I’d rather not lynch: Cantripmancer, DCIII, Arianrhod, Sir Karn, Tammy
I refuse to lynch: Wheat, Cythare, KCC, TMCT, HP.
Null: Rhand, Kamikaze, Hans, BlackVise, LnG, Killjoy
I apologise to everyone, but I simply cannot make the necessary commitment to this game with the real life drama I'm dealing with -- and I have no idea how fast, or slow, it's going to subside. The only fair thing to do is replace, and that's what I am going to do instead of repeatedly getting prodded and or dodging prods.
Tanarin, #60: You’re right, I do know how you play. That’s exactly why I don’t like the way you said what you said.
Generic, #68: I was attacking you to gauge your reaction; your post felt similar to how you went after Zinger in Marvel 1, where you were scum. I would have expected scum!Generic to not relent like you did.
To answer your question, Tanarin because he jumped on it right out of the blue without bothering to hear any kind of response from AE.
#70, Kamikaze: I disagree that Antny was being “excessively” defensive. I don’t believe there’s a very strong way of responding to a self-aware charge that doesn’t read as defensive or, funny enough, self aware.
There is also no similarities between what I said and what Tanarin said.
Won’t be touching the AE Wagon at this point (as of AE’s reply to Tare)
Generic, #83: None.
I can’t make heads or tails of AE v. Tare — I could see arguments for it being town v. town or town v. scum. AE’s rebuttals of Tare’s case seem decent enough, but I’m not a fan of how it’s solely the basis of AE voting for him and trying to shepherd votes onto him. I’m not a fan of how Tare really isn’t replying to AE but continuing to push the case anyway. It’s just odd behaviour all around to me.
#116, Antny: Why does that post from Generic scream scum?
#117, KoolKoal: Jumpy much?
#129, KoolKoal: Why are you confident you can read Antny?
As a general note to everyone: I have some RL drama currently going on, so for the next few days, I will only be posting once, maybe twice a day at most as my computer time will be limited.
#6, Cantrip: No. There’s no way for us to judge the actions of the Judge as either “town” or “anti-town”, for the correct decision for the judge, regardless of alignment, is to lynch the scummiest person of the day, IMO.
#20, Generic: You’re doing that scummy thing again.
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
#45, Generic: Eshnolat.
#48, KoolKoal: /barn re: judge proposal.
#52, Taredas: I’d also like a link, if possible, to where you’re reading your theory arguments.
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
#55, KoolKoal: Why Taredas? What, specifically, about his question to AE pings your scumdar?
You sir, are a communist.
I'm planning on running 26 land with four Anticipate -- I don't think it will be a problem at all, personally.
I actively collect:
And working on getting sorted/started:
The disconnect here is that your view of a “good” game has no bearing outside a kitchen table, whereas mine is rooted in the spirit of competitive play, proper manners, and good etiquette — not subjective emotional feelings such as whether or not it was “memorable” or “fun”.
I will be quite honest: I don’t particularly care if my opponent did or did not have fun — I care about whether or not we sparred in a competitive fashion under the guidelines I originally posted. If we conducted ourselves in an adult and sportsman like manner, abiding by the rules of the game, then it was a good game. Fun is subjective; sparring within a prescribed set of guidelines is not.
You are right that I don’t enjoy getting mana screwed. I don’t enjoy it because it hampers my ability to win — which is the entire point of competitive play. What I don’t do is whinge like a child about it. I accept that it happened and after the match I offer to shake my opponents hand, wish them the best of luck in the next round, and say good games. If they are the first to offer then I accept their offer for a handshake, wish them luck, and say good games. That’s the proper thing to do.
Have you ever watched professional tennis? When Roger Federer was at his prime? He would routinely win matches in consecutive sets, barely letting his opponent onto the board. Yet every time after Federer would destroy someone, they would meet at the net and exchange pleasantries because that’s what mature adults do. Did his opponent enjoy getting embarrassed, perhaps on worldwide television, by Roger Federer? I highly doubt it. That also does not justify the refusal to exchange pleasantries or to cop an attitude.
Remember when the Seattle Seahawks won the Super Bowl last year? They crushed the Denver Broncos in an embarrassing fashion. It was not close. Yet those very same Denver Broncos congratulated the winning Seattle team and, in the face of a very emotional defeat, conducted themselves as professionals and mature adults.
This is no different. At all. You do not have to enjoy the match you lost. That lack of enjoyment does not excuse you, or anyone, from conducting themselves as mature adults with proper manners. It simply does not.
As for the image issue: Your area does not constitute the greater Magic community. This is an issue that has been addressed at length by numerous people, including professionals. Yes, the Magic community has image issues, most of which are completely justified based on the way a very significant amount of players conduct themselves (I.E., with offensive language that belittles women and minorities, both racial and sexual, not to mention the propensity of Magic players to use 'retarded' as a pejorative, which is incredibly offensive and insensitive; immaturity, and incredibly poor social skills) and present themselves (I.E., poor personal hygiene and/or lack of proper grooming). The incredibly childish and immature attitudes being displayed by some individuals in this thread do nothing but reinforce the notion that Magic players have poor social skills and are immature.
The concept that a game can only be "good" when the loser loses under certain circumstances (must have had an equal chance to win, no mana screw, no mana flood, must draw well, et al) is one of the most self-centred and immature things I have heard in some time from this community. The world does not revolve around any one person, so this self-centred immaturity is, point blank, without justification and unacceptable. It is borderline unsportsmanlike as well.
The Magic community as a whole has massive image and reputation issues, and some of the attitudes being displayed here only reinforce the negative image and reputation the larger community has. Stop being part of the problem.
#178, LnG: A hunch eh? I think I understand what you’re trying to say.
#183, DCIII: I didn’t stop to think about Tan’s post in that way — in retrospect, I agree.
#185, BlackVise: There’s a difference between minimalism — not saying a lot, posting infrequently — and simply not commenting on anything. I suppose my point is that there was quite a lot going on, and with your first post you left a plethora of topics on the table and we don’t know your thought(s) on them.
HP wasn’t even under pressure when she claimed IC? This makes no sense.
Unvote; Vote: BlackVise
#186, Wildfire: It takes 10 seconds to figure out which page your post(s) are on. It would be page 5 for Posts 110,113, and 115. I’m not going to quote two dozen posts in a single post when I’m doing a big catch up post.
And I still want responses from Posts 113 and 115.
/barn
I’ll finish pages 9 to current Saturday.
@Mod/All: My GRE exam is in two weeks so I’ll be the same semi-activity until its over. I’m finishing the math portion of the prep (the hardest) come Sunday, so I’ll be somewhat more active next week than I currently am.
#22, Tanarin: Agree with the full claim.
#23, LnG: Try to explain. I’m curious.
#26, Rhand: Probably.
#30, Wildfire: I hate this post with a passion. There’s no point to it; it’s a “busy post”. Like you’re trying to be active, but not being active.
#33, Tanarin: Something about this just… rubs me wrong. Do you agree or disagree that Wildfire’s #30 was terrible and why?
#34, Wildfire: Same as #30. I do not like this post at all.
#38, HP: I’ll buy it.
#51, Bur: This answer to Tanarin was wholly unsatisfying. If you would have done the same thing, shouldn’t you have a generally positive opinion towards Arianrhod? What were you hoping to gain/figure out by asking others how they reached their conclusion on him?
Vote: Bur
#60, Killjoy: Agreed.
#69, Rai: Terrible post is terrible. It’s just filler nonsense.
#71, DCIII: Why does Tanarin’s 67 feel self-conscious? Agree re: Rai
#77, BlackVise: This is your first post and you elected to not comment on the many other things that’ve been going on? Not a fan of this post.
#89, DCIII: iRebel thanks this post. Add Bur and Wildfire to the list of early scum reads.
#90, Cantrip: Why the random arbitrary statistical figure? If its “probably the right play” to test HPs claim, then why does it matter when it happens?
#96, Cythare: /barn.
#107, Cythare re: #104, Karn: /barn
#110, Wildfire: How is this anything but hairsplitting?
#113, Wildfire: Enlighten us.
#115, Wildfire: I’m confused by this post. Can you explain what you were trying to say because my head spins whenever I read it.
#123, Rai: Well that’s your second awful post.
Unvote; Vote: Rai
#124, Hans: Same as BlackVise… your first post and you have zero to say about anything that’s been going on?
#126, Tammy: I agree on testing HP claim; I don’t much see a point in testing it toDay but if it’s going to be a distraction then I’m okay with it.
@BlackVise, LnG, Hans, Rhand, Killjoy, Kamikaze: What do you think of Bur and Rai?
#159, KCC: I agree that Tanarin is giving weird vibes but why do you dislike him more than Rai? When I look at #77 I don’t see anything particularly good or useful from it, and that 77 posts in there was plenty to comment on.
What points of favour do you see in it?
EWP: Nevermind the first question re: Tan.
I want to lynch: Rai, Tanarin
I’m okay lynching: Bur, Wildfire
I’d rather not lynch: Cantripmancer, DCIII, Arianrhod, Sir Karn, Tammy
I refuse to lynch: Wheat, Cythare, KCC, TMCT, HP.
Null: Rhand, Kamikaze, Hans, BlackVise, LnG, Killjoy
/in
edit: 0 games
Sorry to Proph and everyone.
Generic, #68: I was attacking you to gauge your reaction; your post felt similar to how you went after Zinger in Marvel 1, where you were scum. I would have expected scum!Generic to not relent like you did.
To answer your question, Tanarin because he jumped on it right out of the blue without bothering to hear any kind of response from AE.
#70, Kamikaze: I disagree that Antny was being “excessively” defensive. I don’t believe there’s a very strong way of responding to a self-aware charge that doesn’t read as defensive or, funny enough, self aware.
There is also no similarities between what I said and what Tanarin said.
Won’t be touching the AE Wagon at this point (as of AE’s reply to Tare)
Generic, #83: None.
I can’t make heads or tails of AE v. Tare — I could see arguments for it being town v. town or town v. scum. AE’s rebuttals of Tare’s case seem decent enough, but I’m not a fan of how it’s solely the basis of AE voting for him and trying to shepherd votes onto him. I’m not a fan of how Tare really isn’t replying to AE but continuing to push the case anyway. It’s just odd behaviour all around to me.
#116, Antny: Why does that post from Generic scream scum?
#117, KoolKoal: Jumpy much?
#129, KoolKoal: Why are you confident you can read Antny?
As a general note to everyone: I have some RL drama currently going on, so for the next few days, I will only be posting once, maybe twice a day at most as my computer time will be limited.
#20, Generic: You’re doing that scummy thing again.
Unvote
Vote: Generic
I don’t buy the self aware argument.
#31, Generic: Okay, maybe Generic isn’t doing that scummy thing. Unvote
#33, Kamikaze: Speaking of terrible votes, yours is a prime example. There was nothing wrong with Eshnolat’s vote on Generic.
Why do you think Antny is being “excessively” defensive? Elaborate.
#39, Kamikaze: Explain why you’re suspicious of Eshnolat and Antny.
#45, Generic: Eshnolat.
#48, KoolKoal: /barn re: judge proposal.
#52, Taredas: I’d also like a link, if possible, to where you’re reading your theory arguments.
Am willing to support the AE wagon depending on how AE responds.
#54, Tanarin: “If I can see the logic first hand, I may be convinced to support said idea” —> This wording irks me, and doesn’t strike me as very town like. I feel like the town response would be along the lines of I’d like to see the whole discussion so we can examine it more thoroughly, but that isn’t what Tanarin said. He might be willing to support it after seeing it, with no qualification as to what would make him get on board. It’s sly sounding.
#55, KoolKoal: Why Taredas? What, specifically, about his question to AE pings your scumdar?
Vote: Tanarin
Damn Patriots!