Now that the new set is out, anything stick out for anyone that might be useable?
Not that I've seen, sadly.
@anorgasmicdeath: nice list. Glad to see someone else having success with Esper colors; I still think it's the way to go.
I love Wall of Omens and Lingering Souls, but my own meta has forced me away from them, with too many opponents that blockers aren't relevant against (bloody fishmen).
My own draw/cantrip-heavy setup (4 Visions of Beyond, 3 Thought Scour, 2 Remand) has been working out quite well. Went 2-1 twice recently in small local tourneys against a field that's entirely Tier 1/2; last Friday, I was one turn away from going 3-0 (opponents were Naya Burn, CoCo Elves, and Naya Zoo).
I could well be wrong, but to me there aren't many compelling reasons to move away from Blood Moon, land destruction, or utility spells.
The non-creature cards in our deck give us game against matchups where resolving a decent LE is either difficult or not enough to win on its own. Therefore, the way forward seems to be sticking to those Plan Bs while taking advantage of the ways our new creatures make Plan A stronger.
A few people have indeed mentioned that already, including myself; but yes, it's a real question, and it bears repeating.
Personally, I'll be centering my first brews around creatures that cycle for B or B/X. Ensuring a near-guaranteed T1 Cycle play shouldn't be too difficult between Blackcleave Cliffs, Blooming Marsh, and fetchlands. Black mana access on T1, red mana access on T2, and green mana access by T3 are the standards I'm going for; with that in mind, Horror is the most desirable of the new cyclers, while Minotaur is the most likely of the old guard to get cut. Architects of Will are still very much in contention, IMO, between cycling for B and their immensely useful EtB trigger.
Edit: here's a quick five-minute attempt at rendering the above:
I'm on board with those affirming the role of land destruction/denial in this deck. It gives us a nearly incalculable advantage against so many decks in Modern.
As for Jungle Weaver, I think it's safe to say his time has ended. Between the sudden glut of one-mana cyclers, the superiority of Archfiend and the Wurm in the generic Cycles-for-2 slot, and the utility of the landcyclers (who are still in contention, IMO, at least for those playing Blood Moon), Weaver just doesn't offer enough.
Lost Round 1 0-2 to a Gruul Burn player that went on to a 6-0 record on the night. Game 1 should really have been mine--he had a slowish start despite fully extending--but after 7 cycles, 7 cards in my opener, and 5 draws for turn, I never hit a Cascade spell, nor an LE (Expertise was in my opener). Quite unlucky. Had the opposite problem game 2, with a flood of Cascade spells and only 2 creatures in the yard. Some topdecked Brindle Boars and resolving both other LEs kept me alive for a while, but he drew more gas and eventually finished me.
Round 2 I faced Jeskai Prowess, and in Game 1 managed to Cascade just in time: T1 Swiftspear with 2x Mutagenic Growth on top had me reeling. I wiped the board at 5 life, bringing back six creatures, and all he had for reach was a single Bolt before I swung for lethal. Game 2 he fetched two nonbasics on his first two turns, only for me to power out a T2 Blood Moon thanks to our loyal Simian. GG.
Round 3 was against Esper Spirits, which actually has plenty of tools to disrupt our flow: Mausoleum Wanderer, Selfless Spirit, and Spell Queller are ones to watch out for. Game 1 he laid out a pair each of Wanderers and Selfless Spirits by T3, so I scooped without really revealing what I was playing. Game 2 he extended wide with only a single Wanderer down, and I was able to power past it's countering ability with SSG to Cascade into an easy win. Game 3 my opponent was a lot more cagey, leaving mana open for Queller and trying to play around the LE, but before too long I had enough gas to cast Demonic Dread twice in one turn, the first one having been countered. He threw out a couple fliers the following turn, but then my Blood Moon hit the field, largely locking him out and ensuing my continued advantage until the win.
Loving Blood Moon main; it really is a game changer.
Anybody running any copies of Remand these days? I was considering two. Tempo advantage, cantrip, synergy with Orb . . . There's a lot to like, but I'd be happy to hear your experiences, good or bad.
Yeah, I don't think I'd run the Archfiend in LE as we know it. Perhaps other components in Amonkhet will synergize well with it, and it's quite a cool card in its own right, but for now I'll pass.
Still, the glut of cyclers that's (probably) about to drop bodes very well for LE as an archetype. Time for some new toys!
Cool deck, I have a soft spot for norin. You are trying to build an aggro deck with purphoros and impact tremors for additional reach? I would cut the singleton soulfire grandmaster, thalia, heretic cathar, alesha and mentor of the meek. Soulfire and thalia are a bit random and I think ranger of eos and return to the ranks are better at providing card advantage than mentor of the meek and alesha. I like ranger of eos in this type of deck, would probably play 3 or 4. You can tutor for some cool one drops (lightning berserker, norin, weathered wayfarer). I would cut the second lightning berserker. Kytheon I'm unsure about. Does an attack with Norin help trigger kytheon? If it does you might want more kytheon if not I don't think he belongs in the deck.
I would probably play an additional hanweir garrison since the card works well with the theme of your deck.
Hey,
You're certainly right in that a few of the one-drops are randos. Thalia can be a great tempo play on T3 against a lot of decks, while the Grand Master is a nod to grindy games. Both represent decent value as one-ofs while triggering tribal synergies and Tremors effects (not the most efficiently, I grant you!). Alesha has been nice (returning a Garrison with her is glorious). While T3 Mentor can make for an explosive T4, he can just as easily die--I think you're right that Ranger is the superior engine.
That concession, however, leads to some deck building issues. More Rangers at the expense of three-drops and a two-drop (along with perhaps axing Kytheon) raises the curve. Do I drop Purphoros for a third Tremors as a response to this? And between more Rangers and the restriction on Return to the Ranks, I should be loading down even more heavily on one (and to a lesser extent, two) drops, which runs counter to potential moves away from Kytheon and the second Berserker.
Legion Loyalist as a one-of might make his way in if the number of Rangers gets boosted, but what else? A third Norin? Boros Elite? For two-drops, am I crazy for considering Precinct Captain or even a one-of Truefire Paladin? Lastly, Gather the Townsfolk is in a strange place for me--it pairs extremely well with Champs/Lieutenants as well as Tremors, but Return fails to scoop it up.
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I certainly don't expect answers to all of them; just spitballing and thinking aloud. I think the potential here is quite high, just a matter of finding the right blend.
@Savage Hi, thx, it's been a while since I posted these. I'm still on Norin and tried all kinds of things in the meantime. I'm really sold on 4 Norin, as I always want him, but I also tried Berserker and like him too. I'm currently on 8 sisters, 2 Purphoros 8 removal...
I liked Mimic when I really maxed out on the token producers
Cool stuff.
For my own brew, I left Mimic by the wayside, bumped Norin up to a 2-of, and moved away from the Soul Sisters. The decks that gave me fits were the ones that grind you out with repeated discard or removal and then take over the game, and against those opponents, the Sisters' lifegain proved only to delay the inevitable loss. They're great against Burn and other red aggro, but that's why we make an exception to Human tribalism for some Kor Firewalker from the side.
Considering 2x Blood Moon from the side as well, probably at the expense of Baby Thalia (though it feels strange to contemplate leaving her out of the 75 in Human tribal).
Just keep in mind that it made sense in that meta, the current meta doesn't really justify Olivia because very few midrange decks if any can reestablish a threatening board state both tall and wide on the level of living end does once a living end resolves.
For sure. I'll test Olivia for lulz and keep an eye out for anything in Jund colors resembling a like-for-like Rhino replacement (felt so good to lay that down the turn after a resolved LE), but conceptually I agree with you: not much in Modern can stand up to a post-LE board, so devoting resources to that and our land destruction/Denial Plan B is paramount.
It's a fun variant and I think it has potential. Have to play much more games to adjust and say for sure though. I put Worship in the SB. Do you like the idea? Or do you think the traditional Norin-sisters deck running Genesis chamber and Ajani's Pridemate is just outright better?
Shared Animosity can be very powerful and finish things quickly. Please try it and tell me your opinion: brutal addition or win-more?
Nice lists.
I too have been brewing and playtesting Boros Humans; such a fun archetype!
Your first list looks good. 4x Norin might be a tad excessive, and the curve is slightly high on the whole (even higher if you shave a Norin or three). Have you considered Lightning Berserker as both a repeatable EtB trigger enabler and a decent mid/late-game mana sink?
The second list is a little further off the beaten path relative to what I've been running, but it looks solid. How has Mimic performed for you? I've been eyeing it as at least a one-of; seems to have potential.
I'm not 100% certain but i'd bet an arm and a leg that it had to do with eldrazi winter. It completely warped the meta that allowed decks like living end to actually post significant results by virtue of being one of the few decks that had a decent matchup against Eldrazi.
I suspect that Olivia was the tech to be brought out in the mirror match to break up the inevitable board stalemates. In that meta, I could see the rationale in metagaming to that level, but not in this meta where a living end mirror match is once in a blue moon (not the deck).
Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me. I wasn't around for Eldrazi Winter, but busting up a stalled board and giving us an evasive, multifaceted threat is exactly what I had in mind.
@menlo_e: No problem, dude. If I get a run of games in with her in the deck I'll let you know how it goes.
I'd love to hear your rationale. As it stands, I can't see why you would.
Well, since you asked:
I'm turning a casual Vampire deck into a Commander deck, so I was going through cards of which I own multiple copies to see if they've any use elsewhere before they get added to the trade binder. Concurrently, I'm restructuring my LE deck away from splashing white in light of the recent success of Blood Moon builds. That means my Siege Rhinos are a thing of the past, so I'm considering what else from Jund colors could fulfill the role of high-value four-drop that's useful in a variety of situations. Voldaren has some glaring downsides, but she sees play in Jund and other midrange setups.
Two Olivias from the side, so it's been done before. I wonder what merited her inclusion in the deckbuilder's eyes. Either way, I may give her a shot for fun.
Not that I've seen, sadly.
@anorgasmicdeath: nice list. Glad to see someone else having success with Esper colors; I still think it's the way to go.
I love Wall of Omens and Lingering Souls, but my own meta has forced me away from them, with too many opponents that blockers aren't relevant against (bloody fishmen).
My own draw/cantrip-heavy setup (4 Visions of Beyond, 3 Thought Scour, 2 Remand) has been working out quite well. Went 2-1 twice recently in small local tourneys against a field that's entirely Tier 1/2; last Friday, I was one turn away from going 3-0 (opponents were Naya Burn, CoCo Elves, and Naya Zoo).
The non-creature cards in our deck give us game against matchups where resolving a decent LE is either difficult or not enough to win on its own. Therefore, the way forward seems to be sticking to those Plan Bs while taking advantage of the ways our new creatures make Plan A stronger.
Edit: and Archfiend!
Personally, I'll be centering my first brews around creatures that cycle for B or B/X. Ensuring a near-guaranteed T1 Cycle play shouldn't be too difficult between Blackcleave Cliffs, Blooming Marsh, and fetchlands. Black mana access on T1, red mana access on T2, and green mana access by T3 are the standards I'm going for; with that in mind, Horror is the most desirable of the new cyclers, while Minotaur is the most likely of the old guard to get cut. Architects of Will are still very much in contention, IMO, between cycling for B and their immensely useful EtB trigger.
Edit: here's a quick five-minute attempt at rendering the above:
4 Monstrous Carabid
4 Desert Cerodon
4 Horror of the Broken Lands
2 Architects of Will
1 Pale Recluse
1 Archfiend of Ifnir
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Beast Within
2 Blood Moon
4 Violent Outburst
3 Demonic Dread
3 Living End
1 Kari Zev's Expertise
Sucks to cut Avalanche Riders when maindecking Blood Moon, but otherwise I'm extremely happy with how this is shaping up at first glance.
As for Jungle Weaver, I think it's safe to say his time has ended. Between the sudden glut of one-mana cyclers, the superiority of Archfiend and the Wurm in the generic Cycles-for-2 slot, and the utility of the landcyclers (who are still in contention, IMO, at least for those playing Blood Moon), Weaver just doesn't offer enough.
RIP big booty spider. Press F to pay respects.
My only hesitation comes from their one-color cycling demand. For those of us on the Blood Moon plan, how much of a drawback will this prove to be?
Still, that Horror. Yes, please!
Lost Round 1 0-2 to a Gruul Burn player that went on to a 6-0 record on the night. Game 1 should really have been mine--he had a slowish start despite fully extending--but after 7 cycles, 7 cards in my opener, and 5 draws for turn, I never hit a Cascade spell, nor an LE (Expertise was in my opener). Quite unlucky. Had the opposite problem game 2, with a flood of Cascade spells and only 2 creatures in the yard. Some topdecked Brindle Boars and resolving both other LEs kept me alive for a while, but he drew more gas and eventually finished me.
Round 2 I faced Jeskai Prowess, and in Game 1 managed to Cascade just in time: T1 Swiftspear with 2x Mutagenic Growth on top had me reeling. I wiped the board at 5 life, bringing back six creatures, and all he had for reach was a single Bolt before I swung for lethal. Game 2 he fetched two nonbasics on his first two turns, only for me to power out a T2 Blood Moon thanks to our loyal Simian. GG.
Round 3 was against Esper Spirits, which actually has plenty of tools to disrupt our flow: Mausoleum Wanderer, Selfless Spirit, and Spell Queller are ones to watch out for. Game 1 he laid out a pair each of Wanderers and Selfless Spirits by T3, so I scooped without really revealing what I was playing. Game 2 he extended wide with only a single Wanderer down, and I was able to power past it's countering ability with SSG to Cascade into an easy win. Game 3 my opponent was a lot more cagey, leaving mana open for Queller and trying to play around the LE, but before too long I had enough gas to cast Demonic Dread twice in one turn, the first one having been countered. He threw out a couple fliers the following turn, but then my Blood Moon hit the field, largely locking him out and ensuing my continued advantage until the win.
Loving Blood Moon main; it really is a game changer.
Still, the glut of cyclers that's (probably) about to drop bodes very well for LE as an archetype. Time for some new toys!
Hey,
You're certainly right in that a few of the one-drops are randos. Thalia can be a great tempo play on T3 against a lot of decks, while the Grand Master is a nod to grindy games. Both represent decent value as one-ofs while triggering tribal synergies and Tremors effects (not the most efficiently, I grant you!). Alesha has been nice (returning a Garrison with her is glorious). While T3 Mentor can make for an explosive T4, he can just as easily die--I think you're right that Ranger is the superior engine.
That concession, however, leads to some deck building issues. More Rangers at the expense of three-drops and a two-drop (along with perhaps axing Kytheon) raises the curve. Do I drop Purphoros for a third Tremors as a response to this? And between more Rangers and the restriction on Return to the Ranks, I should be loading down even more heavily on one (and to a lesser extent, two) drops, which runs counter to potential moves away from Kytheon and the second Berserker.
Legion Loyalist as a one-of might make his way in if the number of Rangers gets boosted, but what else? A third Norin? Boros Elite? For two-drops, am I crazy for considering Precinct Captain or even a one-of Truefire Paladin? Lastly, Gather the Townsfolk is in a strange place for me--it pairs extremely well with Champs/Lieutenants as well as Tremors, but Return fails to scoop it up.
Sorry for the barrage of questions. I certainly don't expect answers to all of them; just spitballing and thinking aloud. I think the potential here is quite high, just a matter of finding the right blend.
Thanks for the comment!
Cool stuff.
For my own brew, I left Mimic by the wayside, bumped Norin up to a 2-of, and moved away from the Soul Sisters. The decks that gave me fits were the ones that grind you out with repeated discard or removal and then take over the game, and against those opponents, the Sisters' lifegain proved only to delay the inevitable loss. They're great against Burn and other red aggro, but that's why we make an exception to Human tribalism for some Kor Firewalker from the side.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Inspiring Vantage
2x Sacred Foundry
2x Clifftop Retreat
5x Plains
2x Mountain
1x Slayer's Stronghold
Creatures (26)
4x Champion of the Parish
4x Thalia's Lieutenant
4x Thraben Inspector
2x Norin the Wary
2x Lightning Berserker
2x Hanweir Garrison
1x Kytheon, Hero of Akros
1x Weathered Wayfarer
1x Soulfire Grand Master
1x Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1x Alesha, Who Smiles at Death
1x Mentor of the Meek
1x Ranger of Eos
1x Purphoros, God of the Forge
2x Impact Tremors
Sorceries (2)
2x Return to the Ranks
Instants (10)
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Path to Exile
2x Boros Charm
3x Stony Silence
3x Wear//Tear
3x Kor Firewalker
2x Ash Zealot
2x Mirran Crusader
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Considering 2x Blood Moon from the side as well, probably at the expense of Baby Thalia (though it feels strange to contemplate leaving her out of the 75 in Human tribal).
Any thoughts on the deck?
For sure. I'll test Olivia for lulz and keep an eye out for anything in Jund colors resembling a like-for-like Rhino replacement (felt so good to lay that down the turn after a resolved LE), but conceptually I agree with you: not much in Modern can stand up to a post-LE board, so devoting resources to that and our land destruction/Denial Plan B is paramount.
Nice lists.
I too have been brewing and playtesting Boros Humans; such a fun archetype!
Your first list looks good. 4x Norin might be a tad excessive, and the curve is slightly high on the whole (even higher if you shave a Norin or three). Have you considered Lightning Berserker as both a repeatable EtB trigger enabler and a decent mid/late-game mana sink?
The second list is a little further off the beaten path relative to what I've been running, but it looks solid. How has Mimic performed for you? I've been eyeing it as at least a one-of; seems to have potential.
Here's my Boros brew, if anyone's interested: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/boros-bean-counters-human-tribal/
Apologies if links to decks outside the forum are frowned upon; I'm short on time at the moment. Suggestions most welcome!
Sounds like a reasonable assumption to me. I wasn't around for Eldrazi Winter, but busting up a stalled board and giving us an evasive, multifaceted threat is exactly what I had in mind.
@menlo_e: No problem, dude. If I get a run of games in with her in the deck I'll let you know how it goes.
Well, since you asked:
I'm turning a casual Vampire deck into a Commander deck, so I was going through cards of which I own multiple copies to see if they've any use elsewhere before they get added to the trade binder. Concurrently, I'm restructuring my LE deck away from splashing white in light of the recent success of Blood Moon builds. That means my Siege Rhinos are a thing of the past, so I'm considering what else from Jund colors could fulfill the role of high-value four-drop that's useful in a variety of situations. Voldaren has some glaring downsides, but she sees play in Jund and other midrange setups.
Some Googling turned up this list, and not much else: http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpmel16/top-8-decklists-2016-03-06
Two Olivias from the side, so it's been done before. I wonder what merited her inclusion in the deckbuilder's eyes. Either way, I may give her a shot for fun.