Just gonna go on the record now and say that I think Settle the Wreckage will be a very strong option for us. I'm still new to the deck, so don't jam 4 into your mainboard the day after Ixalan drops or anything crazy like that on my account; but this card seems to shore up some weaknesses quite well, while continuing to accrue advantage in a traditionally D&T way (pairs well with Paths before and after, Arbiter, or both).
It provides outs to the same troublesome creatures that Dusk//Dawn does, but at instant speed, and without the awkwardness of wiping our own Golems/Restos/Wisps. I'm a believer.
Excellent write-up, and good job! The work you put in really shows, all your plays were smart and showed foresight. I'm also new to the archetype, and although I'm running a UW tempo build, I see some things in your performance to aspire to, especially in how you played to tempo swings like that double-path turn against the zoo deck, and how you slow-rolled when necessary. How did Firewalker do? I run 4 Leyline of Sanctity in my board and I'm wondering whether I should just find some creatures to board in against burn instead.
Thanks much!
UW tempo looks fun; I also play 4c Humans, and there's a ton of overlap between the two builds.
Firewalker was great the one time I saw him (G3 vs Burn). Steady lifegain and a clock or repeat blocker, whatever your circumstances dictate. I wouldn't necessarily advise him for everyone, but I expect a lot of red on any given night at my LGS, so I sideboard accordingly (one each of Firewalker, Forge-Tender, and Mark of Asylum for now).
I've never used Leylines of Sanctity, so I can't speak to them. I will say that Burn seems to be a favorable matchup for D&T, so unless Leylines are pulling double duty against a lot of discard decks where you play, I might consider trying out some alternatives.
After lots of reading (especially here), theorycrafting, and online testing, I finally got the chance last night to bring D&T to a paper event! Played a fairly stock monowhite list with Sea Gate Wreckage and Mutavault in place of Canopies. Weathered Wayfarer, Smuggler's Copter, Serra Avenger, and a Relic filled up my maindeck flex slots as one-ofs. My sideboard was fairly standard besides the spicy inclusions of Mark of Asylum, Kor Firewalker, and Mangara of Corondor.
Round 1 vs Naya Zoo: Mulled to 6 on the play and opened with Inspector into Arbiter, not blocking my opponent's T1 Nacatl or T2 Goblin Guide. On T3 I played another Inspector and swung. My opponent bolted Arbiter, and in response I pathed both his dudes--no search for you. From there, Avenger and Resto took over the game, with a pair of clues providing gas. G2 an early Thalia demanded removal, only for me to follow up with another. This tempo advantage bought me enough time to stabilize, and a vialed Flickerwisp on Splicer during his attacks was enough of a swing to hand me the game. 1-0
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver: Not sure if this is the stock Delver list these days, or some kind of hybrid between Delver and Shadow, but it was basically a Grixis Shadow list without Shadow or the heavy life loss (fewer fetches, no Thoughtseize or Street Wraith), instead running Delver, Bolt, and a few other utility spells. G1 his T1 Delver flipped on T3, which was also the turn he played an Angler. My curve was fine, but he had a handful of removal spells and I never found a Path. Lost before I could stabilize.
G2 my progression was wild: T1 Vial, T2 Thalia and Inspector, T3 Arbiter, Arbiter, Vial. By T4 I had two Tec Edge down and was content to slow roll through the Vials, threatening to shut him off a color altogether even if he found a way through the Arbiter tax. Clocked him out with my board, pathing his Tasigur and forcing his unflipped Delvers to chump. G3 was a major grind, with a slow start on my end mitigated by chaining back-to-back-to-back Relics to shut off his Delve cards and dig for answers. Eventually he fought through my Relics to resolve an Angler, but by then I had a full hand, a Vial at three, and combat tricks aplenty. Found my Forge-Tender as a hedge against sweepers and won the game from there. 2-0
Round 3 vs Naya Burn: G1 on the play was absurd. T1: Inspector, pass. Opponent plays a fetch and passes back. T2 swing for 1, play an Arbiter. Opponent cracks his fetch in response to Arbiter for a tapped land, goes to turn, thinks for a while, then scoops, showing me a hand of three fetchlands and four two-mana spells. Damn, Arbiter, you're a savage. G2 I mulled to a decent 6 but his start was too fast for me to handle. He ran out of steam and was in topdeck mode after putting me to one life. I had a three turn clock on him, so had to hope he failed to find a damage spell, but a Boros Charm came off the top for the win. G3 my opponent mulled to 5, while I kept Plains, Vial, Inspector, Thalia, Kor Firewalker, Splicer, and Flickerwisp. Drew into more gas and won comfortably. 3-0
Round 4 vs Dredge: My one-of Relic in the main showed up in my opener after a mull to 6, so I thought I was in business. But my opponent had some nasty early Dredge action, forcing me to crack my Relic on T3 in response to two Narcomeba triggers, with two Amalgams and a Conflagarate in the yard. Didn't have much choice there, but he still had two Cathartic Reunions as a follow up, and proceeded to overwhelm me in no time. G2 was a 25 minute grind fest. My early Relic kept him from really going off, while Thalia and a pair of Inspectors started the clock and played the advantage game. Flickerwisp out of Vial in response to Conflagarate saved Thalia. Next turn, I drew his lone Narcomeba into a trade by attacking with Wisp, then slammed a Mirran Crusader, who closed out the game from there.
G3 I kept Plains, Ghost Quarter, Grafdigger's Cage, Inspector, Thalia, Serra Avenger, and Path. His early plan was Dredging via Stinkweed Imp and then hardcasting the Imp, which he did three times in a row, and honestly did a fine job of keeping him in the game long enough to find an Abrupt Decay for my Cage. He went off immediately, but my board state, while not strong enough to attack profitability into the Imps, was good enough to defend. We went to turns without either of us finding a way through. My next cards after the game ended were Relic, Path, and Mirran Crusader, which seems favored for the win. Ah well. 3-0-1
Not bad at all for the deck's paper debut! My one-ofs barely showed up at all; it was the deck's core that overperformed, especially the one- and two-drops. Inspector, Arbiter, and Thalia were all extraordinarily effective.
What a fun archetype this is. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion active, and helping players like me who are new to the deck do well. Planning to run the exact same list next time I play D&T (hopefully with a pair of Canopies added).
Great discussion over the past few weeks in here. It's been a pleasure to read.
I finally got a glance to play this deck in paper for the first time last week. It wasn't my greatest showing, but I'll go over the highlights in case they're helpful for others.
Round 1 vs Dredge: Opponent had the nuts in G1, to the point where my one-of Echoing Truth sending four attacking Prized Amalgams back to his hand was only a speed bump. G2 I kept a strong hand without grave hate, and it proved to be enough: T1 Champ into T2 Champ and Hierarch into T3 Champ and Big Thalia followed up by a pair of Reflector Mages was aggro/tempo city. Didn't find any grave hate G3 either, but a T2 Meddling Mage naming Conflagarate followed by my opponent dredging 5 and turning over two Conflagarates and three lands about summed things up. 1-0
Round 2 vs Blue Steel: I'd never seen this deck before, and didn't have much of an idea what I was up against. All three games were close races. The decisive moment came in G3 when my opponent tapped out to put me at 2, with two Lodestone Golems on board to tax my plays. I was sitting on 5 land with a CoCo in hand. I untapped, and topdecked a shock land--GG dead. For fun, we flipped the top six to see what I would have found if it had been a land I could've played. Double Lieutenant and lethal. FML. 1-1
Round 3 vs Esper Goryo's: G1 I mulled to 5 on the draw. Put him to two life before he found Emrakul to finish me. G2 I mulled to 6, kept a hand of three lands plus Champ, Path, and CoCo, scryed a land to the bottom, then topdecked three straight lands. Needless to say, that was a loss. Pretty frustrating draws in light of the fact that Bant Blsck has so many great tools against Goryo's: both Thalias are huge hosers, and an early Sin Collector, Kambal, or Rest In Peace can cripple them. Oh well. 1-2
Round 4 vs. Mono-Green Stompy: This poor guy was on the recieving end of my rebound in luck. G1 on the play my progression was Champ into Lieutenant into Mirran Crusader. G2 was even worse for him: T1 Hierarch, T2 Crusader, T3 CoCo into Crusader and Reflector Mage, bouncing his Baloth. This match was over before it began. 2-2
Not bad for the first run out in paper. I feel aggrieved by the Goryo's loss, but that's MtG (and life). I think I made the right decisions; luck just wasn't with me at the time. There's nothing in this list with which I was displeased. Really looking forward to playing Humans more and improving my proficiency with them.
^Nice post. I'm on a very similar list to yours, and can corroborate most of your impressions based on my own testing.
Anyone have any spicy tech at 2CMC? On my shortlist are Grand Abolisher, Knight of the Holy Nimbus and Skyship Plunderer.
My spice of choice at 2 CMC over the last few weeks has been Saffi Eriksdotter, Qasali Pridemage, and Phantasmal Image. Image is one of the highest-upside cards in the deck, but it's also terrible in other situations. I'll almost certainly end up cutting it for a Mayor before bringing it to the local tourney in a few days. Saffi isn't a very aggressive card, but the wording on her ability means that we can protect important creatures like Anafenza or either Thalia while generating another EtB trigger for Champs and Lieutenants. Pridemage's utility is well known; whether one merits a maindeck slot is a meta call, and for me, the answer is yes.
Also - thoughts on 3 or 4 Path to Exile main deck? I think we want the 4 copies in the 75, but is a good idea to put the 4th in the sideboard so we have another slot for control/non-interactive matchups?
I've been playing a 3/1 main/side split for Path. 3 Paths and the massive advantage of Reflector Mage seems to be more than enough for creature-heavy matchups, which tend to be favorable in the first place. In place of the 4th Path, I'm maining an Echoing Truth, which provides a second maindeck answer (alongside Pridemage) to cards like Bridge, Worship, and Phyrexian Unlife, along with its other applications: sweeping tokens, bouncing planeswalkers, Delve creatures, Griselbrand, or multiples of whatever the enemy is running.
^Nice post. I'm on a very similar list to yours, and can corroborate most of your impressions based on my own testing.
Anyone have any spicy tech at 2CMC? On my shortlist are Grand Abolisher, Knight of the Holy Nimbus and Skyship Plunderer.
My spice of choice at 2 CMC over the last few weeks has been Saffi Eriksdotter, Qasali Pridemage, and Phantasmal Image. Image is one of the highest-upside cards in the deck, but it's also terrible in other situations. I'll almost certainly end up cutting it for a Mayor before bringing it to the local tourney in a few days. Saffi isn't a very aggressive card, but the wording on her ability means that we can protect important creatures like Anafenza or either Thalia while generating another EtB trigger for Champs and Lieutenants. Pridemage's utility is well known; whether one merits a maindeck slot is a meta call, and for me, the answer is yes.
Also - thoughts on 3 or 4 Path to Exile main deck? I think we want the 4 copies in the 75, but is a good idea to put the 4th in the sideboard so we have another slot for control/non-interactive matchups?
I've been playing a 3/1 main/side split for Path. 3 Paths and the massive advantage of Reflector Mage is more than enough for creature-heavy matchups, which tend to be favorable in the first place. In place of the 4th Path, I'm maining an Echoing Truth, which provides a second maindeck answer (alongside Pridemage) to cards like Bridge, Worship, and Phyrexian Unlife, along with its other applications: sweeping tokens, bouncing planeswalkers, Delve creatures, Griselbrand, or multiples of whatever the enemy is running.
Thanks for the rundown on Skred! The only objection I might raise is over siding in Stony Silence, simply because I'd expect the Skred player to side out their Relics against us. While the deck is not common overall, I do see it often enough locally to be concerned (same with red decks in general). Mark, Forge-Tender, and Kor Firewalker will all see heavy testing.
Merfolk seems like another rough matchup that I'd love to hear discussion on. Hopefully I'm missing something; right now, it seems rather hopeless. Our usual ability to gum up ground combat with First Strike and instant-speed combat tricks is almost totally obviated by Islandwalk. Ghost Quartering our own enchanted land seems like the best way out, which is how you know things are grim. An instant speed Disenchant on Spreading Seas after they've attacked with a Islandwalk into a full board can be a blowout, but that's pretty rare, especially since most people play Stony or Fragmentize over Disenchant.
Besides that, Kira is a nightmare, Thalia is mediocre, Arbiter does almost nothing, Golems die easily to Harbinger or Vapor Snag, and even a Hurkyl's Recall out of their side can win the game on the spot, killing Clues and Golems while sending Vials back to the hand. Wat do?
I may make room in side for burrenton or mark of asylum just got top keep tweaking the board.
Thank you for mentioning Mark of Asylum. I was about to place my order for the rest of what I need for monowhite D&T, and figured it'd be a good idea to check the thread for last-minute inspiration. Mark may not be warranted in the wider meta, but I sure won't mind having a couple around...been facing a lot of red lately.
Speaking of which, is Skred just a matchup monowhite hopes to dodge (assuming no Mark in the mix)? Maindeck sweepers, planeswalkers that we'll struggle to kill through removal, and their Stormbreath Dragons laugh at everything we can do besides maybe a Dusk out of the side. On top of all that, our usual land denial package is nearly useless, while Blood Moon is more effective than you'd expect over the course of a long game, shutting off Canopies and other forms of advantage.
Re: Serra Avenger, as my playtesting has progressed I've come to see the light. CMC 2 is more relevant that it seems at first glance, allowing for another play alongside her on T3/4, holding up mana to crack a Clue, etc. Again, I think all the red I've seen in testing had me underrating her strength. One-of seems ideal at the moment.
I was playing WGub Humans last weekend vs GWru Saheeli Evolution and realized that Big Thalia shuts down twin-esque combos such as Copycat since all the copies enter the battlefield tapped and can't attack before getting exiled at end of turn. Getting Big T to stick against Jeskai will be harder, but she's a very reasonable main deck inclusion if you want to bolster your chances in game 1.
Big Thalia is awesome that way. It's probably elicited more "oh..." responses than any other card, as opponents take a second look at her and realize that she needs to be dealt with before they can combo off.
I still only run her as a one-of, due to potential legendary clashes, her underwhelming nature in certain matchups, and the potency of other three-drop Humans, but she absolutely puts in work.
You didn't mention Mirran Crusader but I will because I don't see a reason why at least a pair shouldn't be in everyone's 75. He beats Death Shadow decks by himself if they can't find a red-only removal spell and is a strong presence against BGx decks or green decks. I play more because I expect to play against these types of decks pretty consistnetly but he can be pretty mediocre or downright poor against decks where you need serious pressure and disruption like UR Storm. I play 3 in the MD and I find that I either keep all 3 in because they are strong or SB all 3 out because they are subpar.
At the beginning of my post, I mentioned Crusader as part of the deck's core (2-of). With the current state of Modern, he's indispensable, and I like your idea of a third copy of him if your local meta calls for it.
I agree that the flex slots have to be consistently useful, which is why Serra Avenger's popularity has me a little puzzled. She's a high-value beater and blocker, but that's it--and the deck already runs 8 other 3-power fliers.
I guess you've gotta get in and kill your enemy somehow, but it seems to me that other options have much higher potential ceilings. Spirit of the Labyrinth is another I forgot to mention.
Once more, I am new to the deck, so don't take my hypothesizing for more than it's worth. Just thinking aloud.
I'm quite interested in building this deck (the mono-white version. After a little proxying and playtesting, I can tell that D&T is very much my style of Magic.
The stock inclusions seem to be 23 lands, 2 Mirran Crusader, 3-4 Baby Thalia, and 4 each of Vial, Path, Inspector, Arbiter, Flickerwisp, Splicer, and Resto, which leaves 3-4 flex slots for the main deck.
I've been tinkering with options for these slots. I know a lot of these selections will be meta-dependent, but there are still some universal protocols we can lay out. From my layman's perspective, here are some of the options available. Please let me know where I go astray, whether it's in the analysis of the cards or the fact that they're in consideration at all.
Weathered Wayfarer: Can make sketchy one-land openers keepable. Tutors for our plethora of utility lands. As mentioned above, extreme nonbo with Arbiter, and mild nonbo with our land destruction.
Judge's Familiar: Flying can be relevant. Mind games possible with a Vial set to one. Very underwhelming late game.
Dryad Militant: Aggressive stats paired with a useful, but relatively narrow, hate effect.
Student of Warfare: Provides a mana sink, which is often useful when holding up mana for instant speed plays that may or may not need to be made. Vulnerability to every single form of commonplace Modern removal means that leveling up should usually only happen when there's nothing better to do with free mana.
Kor Skyfisher: Mildly undercosted stats tacked onto a mildly advantageous effect. Can be a poor early play without anything useful to unsummon.
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Decent stats paired with surprisingly savage grave hate. Big target on its back against decks it hoses; stats aren't always relevant with how clogged up ground combat can get.
Wall of Omens: Great blocker along the ground along with one of the cantrips we love so much. Fails to punish slow enemy decks by getting in for damage; blocking ability is irrelevant against combo and some other matchups.
Serra Avenger: Undercosted beater with a drawback that can be partially mitigated by Vial. Doesn't tax or hate out the enemy in any way, nor does it accrue card advantage for us.
Selfless Spirit: Decent stats and a fantastic activated ability that can give an edge against maindeck board wipes. Feels somewhat surplus to requirements, between Burrenton Forge-Tender out of the side against red wipes, and our natural advantages against non-red control decks.
Phyrexian Revoker: Seems to split opinion, in much the same way that it whiffs against certain decks and becomes a real stumbling block for others. Colorless casting cost can be a minor boon with weird keeps.
Mangara of Corondor/Oblivion Ring: Maindeck ability to answer any permanent is powerful even before we get into the over-the-top synergy with Flickerwisp. Very slow interaction--perhaps too slow for Modern--especially when used in conjunction with Wisp.
Kitchen Finks: Fantastic all-around value, as any Modern player knows, but lacks punch and evasiveness, sort of blending into the army we're trying to assemble. There may come a meta when Finks feels maindeck-worthy, but this doesn't seem to be it.
Stonecloaker: The stats are solid and the value ceiling is very high, but ultimately it seems a little to cute to be consistently strong.
Those are my observations after a very short period of testing and theorycrafting, so once more, let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Any other maindeck options that should be in the mix?
It's nice to read the FNM reports that are so common in this thread. Elves aren't my main deck in Modern (heresy, I know), but I pulled off my first x-0 with this deck last night at a small event--and against some tough matchups--so I'm pretty hyped.
Played a fairly stock GB list with a few changes: 2/2 split of Visionary/Sentinel and only 2 copies of Ezuri. I maindecked a Scooze, included an Elves of Deep Shadow, and played 9 spells (4 CoCo/3 Lead/2 Chord).
Round 1 vs Lantern Control:
Game 1 he Decayed a couple of dorks while assembling his lock pieces. Pyxis, Lantern, and Bell were down, but no Bridge. With more dorks down, including a Heritage Druid, my Lead found still more dorks and a Shaman. I laid down some dudes, cast a CoCo to find Shaman and Elite, then hardcast my other Shaman, followed by my 1/1s getting in for the win.
Game 2 I kept a risky one-lander with two dorks and everything else 3+ CMC, including my sideboarded Fracturing Gust. Opponent opened with a Lantern, Decayed my first dork on T2, then killed my second dork on T3 with a Collective Brutality, taking away my Lead for good measure, then played a Bell. I failed to hit another land drop, and when he laid down more Mill pieces on T4 I scooped.
Game 3 was grindy. His early Inquisition took away a Reclamation Sage, but he couldn't stop the mana dorks from doing their thing. I chipped in for a few points here and there while assembling a huge field, drawing and laying down Ezuri and Elite off a Lead. His next turn saw him lay down an Ensnaring Bridge and a Welding Jar, emptying his hand and passing back. With an ungodly amount of mana at my disposal, I played Eternal Witness, buying back my discarded Rec Sage, played it to draw out the Jar, then Chorded for a second Rec Sage to smash the Bridge, with enough mana left for a single Ezuri activation and a lethal swing. 2-1
Round 2 vs Dredge:
Game 1 I had a mediocre start, while his was strong (but not unbeatable). After a few turns of catching beats from Bloodghast, Amalgam, and Narcomeba and going to 8 life, I decided to trade my 3/3 Elite (buffed by Archdruid) for his Amalgam. Opponent had one card in hand, and unluckily for me, it was a land. Second main he played it, returning more Bloodghasts and Amalgams, including the one I'd just traded for. With a CoCo in hand, I went to my turn, and topdecked a Shaman. CoCoed into Shaman and Elite, hardcast my other Shaman, and got in with my meager board for exactly lethal. Whew!
Game 2 was a lot more casual. I kept an explosive hand, but one without grave hate. Opponent kept a hand that failed to fire. Chorded for Ezuri on his T3 end step and it was GG next turn. 2-0
Round 3 vs Skred Red: I flooded the board with dorks, outpacing his Bolts and Skreds, but a T3 Eternal Scourge was threatening to wall off my chump attackers...until I saw a spicy line of play. With Pendelhaven and 3 other lands open, plus 2x Heritage and 1x Llanowar open, I swung with a small army of 1/1 tokens and dorks. His Scourge blocked one. Before damage I made it a 2/3 with Pendelhaven, then Chorded for Archdruid, winning the trade and getting in for extra damage elsewhere. My Archdruid died to the Chandra he cast the next turn, but I then CoCoed into double Shaman and swung with small guys for the win.
Game 2 I opened with Nettle Sentinel into Dwynen's Elite, threatening a clock and baiting out a T3 Anger. I rebuilt with dorks and an Archdruid, only to eat another Anger. On his T5, he played a Chandra and passed, ticking her up to 5. I CoCoed on his end step for Ezuri and Archdruid, then got in for 5 to kill Chandra with those two, playing more Elves with my free lands. He took Ezuri down with a Skred, then Archdruid with a Bolt, and the grind was on. A topdecked Lead, finding (among other things) Eternal Witness who bought back CoCo was the ultimate value as I battled through Koth, Scourge, and more removal. A second Ezuri eventually sealed the deal. Exhilarating game and match. 2-0
Historically, my luck always seems to run out with Elves toward the end of the night. Maybe that would have been the case here if there'd been enough attendees for a 4th round, but as is, I'll take it! The ninth spell (and ninth mana dork to compensate) felt great--CoCo, Lead, and Chord all more than pulled their weight last night.
In retrospect, it was a little stupid and greedy. I should have shaved a Boar and cut my Faeries for 4x Leyline of the Void.
The league structure was pretty cool, and it seems to me that it was designed predominantly to establish regular weekly attendance at the shop. 9 weeks of league play in which points are accrued based on wins, draws, and attendance, followed by a single-elimination showdown between the top 4 (matches were best of 5).
It provides outs to the same troublesome creatures that Dusk//Dawn does, but at instant speed, and without the awkwardness of wiping our own Golems/Restos/Wisps. I'm a believer.
Thanks much!
UW tempo looks fun; I also play 4c Humans, and there's a ton of overlap between the two builds.
Firewalker was great the one time I saw him (G3 vs Burn). Steady lifegain and a clock or repeat blocker, whatever your circumstances dictate. I wouldn't necessarily advise him for everyone, but I expect a lot of red on any given night at my LGS, so I sideboard accordingly (one each of Firewalker, Forge-Tender, and Mark of Asylum for now).
I've never used Leylines of Sanctity, so I can't speak to them. I will say that Burn seems to be a favorable matchup for D&T, so unless Leylines are pulling double duty against a lot of discard decks where you play, I might consider trying out some alternatives.
Round 1 vs Naya Zoo: Mulled to 6 on the play and opened with Inspector into Arbiter, not blocking my opponent's T1 Nacatl or T2 Goblin Guide. On T3 I played another Inspector and swung. My opponent bolted Arbiter, and in response I pathed both his dudes--no search for you. From there, Avenger and Resto took over the game, with a pair of clues providing gas. G2 an early Thalia demanded removal, only for me to follow up with another. This tempo advantage bought me enough time to stabilize, and a vialed Flickerwisp on Splicer during his attacks was enough of a swing to hand me the game. 1-0
Round 2 vs Grixis Delver: Not sure if this is the stock Delver list these days, or some kind of hybrid between Delver and Shadow, but it was basically a Grixis Shadow list without Shadow or the heavy life loss (fewer fetches, no Thoughtseize or Street Wraith), instead running Delver, Bolt, and a few other utility spells. G1 his T1 Delver flipped on T3, which was also the turn he played an Angler. My curve was fine, but he had a handful of removal spells and I never found a Path. Lost before I could stabilize.
G2 my progression was wild: T1 Vial, T2 Thalia and Inspector, T3 Arbiter, Arbiter, Vial. By T4 I had two Tec Edge down and was content to slow roll through the Vials, threatening to shut him off a color altogether even if he found a way through the Arbiter tax. Clocked him out with my board, pathing his Tasigur and forcing his unflipped Delvers to chump. G3 was a major grind, with a slow start on my end mitigated by chaining back-to-back-to-back Relics to shut off his Delve cards and dig for answers. Eventually he fought through my Relics to resolve an Angler, but by then I had a full hand, a Vial at three, and combat tricks aplenty. Found my Forge-Tender as a hedge against sweepers and won the game from there. 2-0
Round 3 vs Naya Burn: G1 on the play was absurd. T1: Inspector, pass. Opponent plays a fetch and passes back. T2 swing for 1, play an Arbiter. Opponent cracks his fetch in response to Arbiter for a tapped land, goes to turn, thinks for a while, then scoops, showing me a hand of three fetchlands and four two-mana spells. Damn, Arbiter, you're a savage. G2 I mulled to a decent 6 but his start was too fast for me to handle. He ran out of steam and was in topdeck mode after putting me to one life. I had a three turn clock on him, so had to hope he failed to find a damage spell, but a Boros Charm came off the top for the win. G3 my opponent mulled to 5, while I kept Plains, Vial, Inspector, Thalia, Kor Firewalker, Splicer, and Flickerwisp. Drew into more gas and won comfortably. 3-0
Round 4 vs Dredge: My one-of Relic in the main showed up in my opener after a mull to 6, so I thought I was in business. But my opponent had some nasty early Dredge action, forcing me to crack my Relic on T3 in response to two Narcomeba triggers, with two Amalgams and a Conflagarate in the yard. Didn't have much choice there, but he still had two Cathartic Reunions as a follow up, and proceeded to overwhelm me in no time. G2 was a 25 minute grind fest. My early Relic kept him from really going off, while Thalia and a pair of Inspectors started the clock and played the advantage game. Flickerwisp out of Vial in response to Conflagarate saved Thalia. Next turn, I drew his lone Narcomeba into a trade by attacking with Wisp, then slammed a Mirran Crusader, who closed out the game from there.
G3 I kept Plains, Ghost Quarter, Grafdigger's Cage, Inspector, Thalia, Serra Avenger, and Path. His early plan was Dredging via Stinkweed Imp and then hardcasting the Imp, which he did three times in a row, and honestly did a fine job of keeping him in the game long enough to find an Abrupt Decay for my Cage. He went off immediately, but my board state, while not strong enough to attack profitability into the Imps, was good enough to defend. We went to turns without either of us finding a way through. My next cards after the game ended were Relic, Path, and Mirran Crusader, which seems favored for the win. Ah well. 3-0-1
Not bad at all for the deck's paper debut! My one-ofs barely showed up at all; it was the deck's core that overperformed, especially the one- and two-drops. Inspector, Arbiter, and Thalia were all extraordinarily effective.
What a fun archetype this is. Thanks to everyone for keeping the discussion active, and helping players like me who are new to the deck do well. Planning to run the exact same list next time I play D&T (hopefully with a pair of Canopies added).
I finally got a glance to play this deck in paper for the first time last week. It wasn't my greatest showing, but I'll go over the highlights in case they're helpful for others.
Round 1 vs Dredge: Opponent had the nuts in G1, to the point where my one-of Echoing Truth sending four attacking Prized Amalgams back to his hand was only a speed bump. G2 I kept a strong hand without grave hate, and it proved to be enough: T1 Champ into T2 Champ and Hierarch into T3 Champ and Big Thalia followed up by a pair of Reflector Mages was aggro/tempo city. Didn't find any grave hate G3 either, but a T2 Meddling Mage naming Conflagarate followed by my opponent dredging 5 and turning over two Conflagarates and three lands about summed things up. 1-0
Round 2 vs Blue Steel: I'd never seen this deck before, and didn't have much of an idea what I was up against. All three games were close races. The decisive moment came in G3 when my opponent tapped out to put me at 2, with two Lodestone Golems on board to tax my plays. I was sitting on 5 land with a CoCo in hand. I untapped, and topdecked a shock land--GG dead. For fun, we flipped the top six to see what I would have found if it had been a land I could've played. Double Lieutenant and lethal. FML. 1-1
Round 3 vs Esper Goryo's: G1 I mulled to 5 on the draw. Put him to two life before he found Emrakul to finish me. G2 I mulled to 6, kept a hand of three lands plus Champ, Path, and CoCo, scryed a land to the bottom, then topdecked three straight lands. Needless to say, that was a loss. Pretty frustrating draws in light of the fact that Bant Blsck has so many great tools against Goryo's: both Thalias are huge hosers, and an early Sin Collector, Kambal, or Rest In Peace can cripple them. Oh well. 1-2
Round 4 vs. Mono-Green Stompy: This poor guy was on the recieving end of my rebound in luck. G1 on the play my progression was Champ into Lieutenant into Mirran Crusader. G2 was even worse for him: T1 Hierarch, T2 Crusader, T3 CoCo into Crusader and Reflector Mage, bouncing his Baloth. This match was over before it began. 2-2
Not bad for the first run out in paper. I feel aggrieved by the Goryo's loss, but that's MtG (and life). I think I made the right decisions; luck just wasn't with me at the time. There's nothing in this list with which I was displeased. Really looking forward to playing Humans more and improving my proficiency with them.
My spice of choice at 2 CMC over the last few weeks has been Saffi Eriksdotter, Qasali Pridemage, and Phantasmal Image. Image is one of the highest-upside cards in the deck, but it's also terrible in other situations. I'll almost certainly end up cutting it for a Mayor before bringing it to the local tourney in a few days. Saffi isn't a very aggressive card, but the wording on her ability means that we can protect important creatures like Anafenza or either Thalia while generating another EtB trigger for Champs and Lieutenants. Pridemage's utility is well known; whether one merits a maindeck slot is a meta call, and for me, the answer is yes.
I've been playing a 3/1 main/side split for Path. 3 Paths and the massive advantage of Reflector Mage seems to be more than enough for creature-heavy matchups, which tend to be favorable in the first place. In place of the 4th Path, I'm maining an Echoing Truth, which provides a second maindeck answer (alongside Pridemage) to cards like Bridge, Worship, and Phyrexian Unlife, along with its other applications: sweeping tokens, bouncing planeswalkers, Delve creatures, Griselbrand, or multiples of whatever the enemy is running.
My spice of choice at 2 CMC over the last few weeks has been Saffi Eriksdotter, Qasali Pridemage, and Phantasmal Image. Image is one of the highest-upside cards in the deck, but it's also terrible in other situations. I'll almost certainly end up cutting it for a Mayor before bringing it to the local tourney in a few days. Saffi isn't a very aggressive card, but the wording on her ability means that we can protect important creatures like Anafenza or either Thalia while generating another EtB trigger for Champs and Lieutenants. Pridemage's utility is well known; whether one merits a maindeck slot is a meta call, and for me, the answer is yes.
I've been playing a 3/1 main/side split for Path. 3 Paths and the massive advantage of Reflector Mage is more than enough for creature-heavy matchups, which tend to be favorable in the first place. In place of the 4th Path, I'm maining an Echoing Truth, which provides a second maindeck answer (alongside Pridemage) to cards like Bridge, Worship, and Phyrexian Unlife, along with its other applications: sweeping tokens, bouncing planeswalkers, Delve creatures, Griselbrand, or multiples of whatever the enemy is running.
Merfolk seems like another rough matchup that I'd love to hear discussion on. Hopefully I'm missing something; right now, it seems rather hopeless. Our usual ability to gum up ground combat with First Strike and instant-speed combat tricks is almost totally obviated by Islandwalk. Ghost Quartering our own enchanted land seems like the best way out, which is how you know things are grim. An instant speed Disenchant on Spreading Seas after they've attacked with a Islandwalk into a full board can be a blowout, but that's pretty rare, especially since most people play Stony or Fragmentize over Disenchant.
Besides that, Kira is a nightmare, Thalia is mediocre, Arbiter does almost nothing, Golems die easily to Harbinger or Vapor Snag, and even a Hurkyl's Recall out of their side can win the game on the spot, killing Clues and Golems while sending Vials back to the hand. Wat do?
Thank you for mentioning Mark of Asylum. I was about to place my order for the rest of what I need for monowhite D&T, and figured it'd be a good idea to check the thread for last-minute inspiration. Mark may not be warranted in the wider meta, but I sure won't mind having a couple around...been facing a lot of red lately.
Speaking of which, is Skred just a matchup monowhite hopes to dodge (assuming no Mark in the mix)? Maindeck sweepers, planeswalkers that we'll struggle to kill through removal, and their Stormbreath Dragons laugh at everything we can do besides maybe a Dusk out of the side. On top of all that, our usual land denial package is nearly useless, while Blood Moon is more effective than you'd expect over the course of a long game, shutting off Canopies and other forms of advantage.
Re: Serra Avenger, as my playtesting has progressed I've come to see the light. CMC 2 is more relevant that it seems at first glance, allowing for another play alongside her on T3/4, holding up mana to crack a Clue, etc. Again, I think all the red I've seen in testing had me underrating her strength. One-of seems ideal at the moment.
Big Thalia is awesome that way. It's probably elicited more "oh..." responses than any other card, as opponents take a second look at her and realize that she needs to be dealt with before they can combo off.
I still only run her as a one-of, due to potential legendary clashes, her underwhelming nature in certain matchups, and the potency of other three-drop Humans, but she absolutely puts in work.
At the beginning of my post, I mentioned Crusader as part of the deck's core (2-of). With the current state of Modern, he's indispensable, and I like your idea of a third copy of him if your local meta calls for it.
I agree that the flex slots have to be consistently useful, which is why Serra Avenger's popularity has me a little puzzled. She's a high-value beater and blocker, but that's it--and the deck already runs 8 other 3-power fliers.
I guess you've gotta get in and kill your enemy somehow, but it seems to me that other options have much higher potential ceilings. Spirit of the Labyrinth is another I forgot to mention.
Once more, I am new to the deck, so don't take my hypothesizing for more than it's worth. Just thinking aloud.
Sin Collector has applications here, as do counterspells like Negate or Mana Leak.
I'm quite interested in building this deck (the mono-white version. After a little proxying and playtesting, I can tell that D&T is very much my style of Magic.
The stock inclusions seem to be 23 lands, 2 Mirran Crusader, 3-4 Baby Thalia, and 4 each of Vial, Path, Inspector, Arbiter, Flickerwisp, Splicer, and Resto, which leaves 3-4 flex slots for the main deck.
I've been tinkering with options for these slots. I know a lot of these selections will be meta-dependent, but there are still some universal protocols we can lay out. From my layman's perspective, here are some of the options available. Please let me know where I go astray, whether it's in the analysis of the cards or the fact that they're in consideration at all.
Weathered Wayfarer: Can make sketchy one-land openers keepable. Tutors for our plethora of utility lands. As mentioned above, extreme nonbo with Arbiter, and mild nonbo with our land destruction.
Judge's Familiar: Flying can be relevant. Mind games possible with a Vial set to one. Very underwhelming late game.
Dryad Militant: Aggressive stats paired with a useful, but relatively narrow, hate effect.
Student of Warfare: Provides a mana sink, which is often useful when holding up mana for instant speed plays that may or may not need to be made. Vulnerability to every single form of commonplace Modern removal means that leveling up should usually only happen when there's nothing better to do with free mana.
Kor Skyfisher: Mildly undercosted stats tacked onto a mildly advantageous effect. Can be a poor early play without anything useful to unsummon.
Samurai of the Pale Curtain: Decent stats paired with surprisingly savage grave hate. Big target on its back against decks it hoses; stats aren't always relevant with how clogged up ground combat can get.
Wall of Omens: Great blocker along the ground along with one of the cantrips we love so much. Fails to punish slow enemy decks by getting in for damage; blocking ability is irrelevant against combo and some other matchups.
Serra Avenger: Undercosted beater with a drawback that can be partially mitigated by Vial. Doesn't tax or hate out the enemy in any way, nor does it accrue card advantage for us.
Selfless Spirit: Decent stats and a fantastic activated ability that can give an edge against maindeck board wipes. Feels somewhat surplus to requirements, between Burrenton Forge-Tender out of the side against red wipes, and our natural advantages against non-red control decks.
Phyrexian Revoker: Seems to split opinion, in much the same way that it whiffs against certain decks and becomes a real stumbling block for others. Colorless casting cost can be a minor boon with weird keeps.
Mangara of Corondor/Oblivion Ring: Maindeck ability to answer any permanent is powerful even before we get into the over-the-top synergy with Flickerwisp. Very slow interaction--perhaps too slow for Modern--especially when used in conjunction with Wisp.
Kitchen Finks: Fantastic all-around value, as any Modern player knows, but lacks punch and evasiveness, sort of blending into the army we're trying to assemble. There may come a meta when Finks feels maindeck-worthy, but this doesn't seem to be it.
Stonecloaker: The stats are solid and the value ceiling is very high, but ultimately it seems a little to cute to be consistently strong.
Those are my observations after a very short period of testing and theorycrafting, so once more, let me know if I'm barking up the wrong tree. Any other maindeck options that should be in the mix?
Played a fairly stock GB list with a few changes: 2/2 split of Visionary/Sentinel and only 2 copies of Ezuri. I maindecked a Scooze, included an Elves of Deep Shadow, and played 9 spells (4 CoCo/3 Lead/2 Chord).
Round 1 vs Lantern Control:
Game 1 he Decayed a couple of dorks while assembling his lock pieces. Pyxis, Lantern, and Bell were down, but no Bridge. With more dorks down, including a Heritage Druid, my Lead found still more dorks and a Shaman. I laid down some dudes, cast a CoCo to find Shaman and Elite, then hardcast my other Shaman, followed by my 1/1s getting in for the win.
Game 2 I kept a risky one-lander with two dorks and everything else 3+ CMC, including my sideboarded Fracturing Gust. Opponent opened with a Lantern, Decayed my first dork on T2, then killed my second dork on T3 with a Collective Brutality, taking away my Lead for good measure, then played a Bell. I failed to hit another land drop, and when he laid down more Mill pieces on T4 I scooped.
Game 3 was grindy. His early Inquisition took away a Reclamation Sage, but he couldn't stop the mana dorks from doing their thing. I chipped in for a few points here and there while assembling a huge field, drawing and laying down Ezuri and Elite off a Lead. His next turn saw him lay down an Ensnaring Bridge and a Welding Jar, emptying his hand and passing back. With an ungodly amount of mana at my disposal, I played Eternal Witness, buying back my discarded Rec Sage, played it to draw out the Jar, then Chorded for a second Rec Sage to smash the Bridge, with enough mana left for a single Ezuri activation and a lethal swing. 2-1
Round 2 vs Dredge:
Game 1 I had a mediocre start, while his was strong (but not unbeatable). After a few turns of catching beats from Bloodghast, Amalgam, and Narcomeba and going to 8 life, I decided to trade my 3/3 Elite (buffed by Archdruid) for his Amalgam. Opponent had one card in hand, and unluckily for me, it was a land. Second main he played it, returning more Bloodghasts and Amalgams, including the one I'd just traded for. With a CoCo in hand, I went to my turn, and topdecked a Shaman. CoCoed into Shaman and Elite, hardcast my other Shaman, and got in with my meager board for exactly lethal. Whew!
Game 2 was a lot more casual. I kept an explosive hand, but one without grave hate. Opponent kept a hand that failed to fire. Chorded for Ezuri on his T3 end step and it was GG next turn. 2-0
Round 3 vs Skred Red: I flooded the board with dorks, outpacing his Bolts and Skreds, but a T3 Eternal Scourge was threatening to wall off my chump attackers...until I saw a spicy line of play. With Pendelhaven and 3 other lands open, plus 2x Heritage and 1x Llanowar open, I swung with a small army of 1/1 tokens and dorks. His Scourge blocked one. Before damage I made it a 2/3 with Pendelhaven, then Chorded for Archdruid, winning the trade and getting in for extra damage elsewhere. My Archdruid died to the Chandra he cast the next turn, but I then CoCoed into double Shaman and swung with small guys for the win.
Game 2 I opened with Nettle Sentinel into Dwynen's Elite, threatening a clock and baiting out a T3 Anger. I rebuilt with dorks and an Archdruid, only to eat another Anger. On his T5, he played a Chandra and passed, ticking her up to 5. I CoCoed on his end step for Ezuri and Archdruid, then got in for 5 to kill Chandra with those two, playing more Elves with my free lands. He took Ezuri down with a Skred, then Archdruid with a Bolt, and the grind was on. A topdecked Lead, finding (among other things) Eternal Witness who bought back CoCo was the ultimate value as I battled through Koth, Scourge, and more removal. A second Ezuri eventually sealed the deal. Exhilarating game and match. 2-0
Historically, my luck always seems to run out with Elves toward the end of the night. Maybe that would have been the case here if there'd been enough attendees for a 4th round, but as is, I'll take it! The ninth spell (and ninth mana dork to compensate) felt great--CoCo, Lead, and Chord all more than pulled their weight last night.
Expecting Zoo, Sisters, and [fill in the blank], I ran with this:
3 Faerie Macabre
3 Ingot Chewer
2 Fulminator Mage
2 Blood Moon
1 Krosan Grip
In retrospect, it was a little stupid and greedy. I should have shaved a Boar and cut my Faeries for 4x Leyline of the Void.
The league structure was pretty cool, and it seems to me that it was designed predominantly to establish regular weekly attendance at the shop. 9 weeks of league play in which points are accrued based on wins, draws, and attendance, followed by a single-elimination showdown between the top 4 (matches were best of 5).