Since this is still the only thread for Grixis Shadow discussion: What do people think of running 2 Collective Brutality main instead of the Inquisition of Kozilek? The deck already has enough turn one plays (4 Serum Visions, 4 Thought Scour, 4 Thoughtseize, and sometimes even Tasigur or Deaths's Shadow if your hand is spicy enough) without IoK. Collective Brutality is a powerhouse, and its third mode helps mitigate the damage we do to ourselves if we need to, which happens if you can't find a shadow or are in bolt range.
I really like Mangara of Corondor in this deck because of the interaction with not only a vialed Flickerwisp but also the Eldrazi Displacer. If you can keep it on the board you an remove a permanent every turn which is good for a stalled board late game. I ended up removing Thalia 2.0 because it didn't provide as much value as I'd hoped in most of my matches. I only have 3 of the original Thalia because every now and then the Legendary aspect gave me a dead card in hand. I finished it up with a couple Blade Splicer instead of a Serra Avenger just because it's such a great blink target.
I'd still appreciate any feedback from the group, but this is where I'm gravitating right now, though I'm also testing Eiganjo Castle in place of one of my plains (since both Thalia and Mangara are legendary).
Definitely a nice list! I think the one thing to consider is putting Mangara of Corondor in the sideboard if you want to be playing him. I can understand that the card feels powerful, and at times it definitely is -- the issue is that the combo is just so slow and unwieldy against certain decks (Death's Shadow, Burn, Affinity, etc.) that you fall behind trying to pull it off, and considering how much of the meta decks like these make up, it's a definite risk to be mainboarding Magnara. Boarding it in against slower, grindier matchups is definitely something you can and should consider, but I'd use those mainboard slots for cards that fill other holes the deck has, like selfless spirits or dark confidants.
Also, Eiganjo Castle is probably fine to replace a plains, considering that we aren't searching that much anyways. Even if it protects Thalia it's pretty good. Though, the deck is already weak to Blood Moon, so it's a definite tradeoff.
Personally, I'd consider more concealed courtyards and less godless shrines. The courtyards rarely enter untapped when it's relevant, and don't cost you the life. With 4 painlands a must-have for E&T, shocking in a shrine just adds to the pain.
Your list looks pretty sweet. I wonder though, (and maybe this is just buying into the hype) but why not adopt a "if you can't beat 'em, join'em" approach and add some Death's Shadow since you're already playing the colours with a focus on low CMC creatures?
Death's Shadow cannot be thrown into decks that easily. Decks with Death's Shadow have to focus on making it large quickly and usually have other synergies. If you just play it when you're almost dead to a natural game progression, it's not much of a one drop, and it probably doesn't save you/is forced to play defense. A deck like this would rather play a one drop it could play on turn one.
I don't know how good Geist of Saint Traft is right now (might get stonewalled on the ground) but Blade Splicer is always a good option on both offense/defense and a great blink target.
That about sums it up. My experience has been that unless you're running some kind of sword package in your deck, geist is a sideboard card only. He definitely has trouble making it through against a lot of the top decks, and is too slow against many others. He's powerful against control and some slower strategies, but you can just board him in then. Blade splicer is probably better for that slot.
There's nothing wrong with trying to win games, or enjoying winning them. If that's not your playstyle, more power to you, but you can't be angry at those who enjoying winning. After all, at the end of the day Magic is a game that requires a winner and a loser (Divine Intervention aside), and there will always be a good amount of people who orient their goals and enjoyment around that.
I'm a huge fan of foils. I won't pay a significant amount of extra money for one, but if I open it or it's only a few cents more, I'll jam it in any deck using the card. It doesn't bother me to only have a few cards foiled.
When do we sideboard in Gideon as E&T? Against BGx? I'm pretty sketchy on sideboarding in general really.
We usually want to board it in where grinding is key. BGx and Control are good examples, because they have trouble dealing with Gideon, and Gideon can play the long game really well, something we might have trouble doing otherwise.
At least, that's been my experience. Not sure how other people do it.
What do people sideboard in against Bant Eldrazi? It feels like a bad matchup for E&T, and I realized my sideboard doesn't have anything to deal with it.
Also, is there a Discord that people here use? I know that other decks (like Faeries) have them, and it seems pretty useful.
It's making some weird choices, but most of it is pretty good. @SpiderSpace recently did a stream showing off the deck and tweaking it, if you want to go check it out.
The spectral flights are somewhat weird, as are the Dryad Militants. After some refining, though, it could certainly be a fine list.
I don't play UW, but from what I've seen a good starting point might be going -3 Dryad Militant, -2 Spectral Flight and up on some combination of selfless spirit, reflector mage, and spell queller. Personally, I'd go +1 Mage, +2 Selfless, +1 Queller, and +1 Revoker, but not sure if that's optimal.
Are we going to keep running TKS if Fatal Push is good? Like @DysposableHero said, it seems really painful to get that removed for one mana, especially in the non-EnT variants.
Just went to my first FNM with EnT. This community's been a great help, and shoutout to Deathandcatmix's great streams that helped me learn the deck while I slowly built it.
Game 1: 2-0 vs Affinity
Guy punted all over the place game one and made what seemed like an unwinnable game into a win. Revoker does work here and I was eventually able to regain board control with Paths and Stranglers.
Boarded in 2x Stony, 1x Zealous, 1x Pontiff, 1x Revoker, 2x Ghostly Prison. Boarded out 4x Aether Vial and 3x Arbiter, if I remember correctly.
Game two I stole away his Cranial Plating with Sculler and took over the board with Displacer. Wasn't nearly as hard.
Game 2: 2-0 vs Lantern
Thalia is great. Guy mulled to five and then couldn't find the mana to cast bridge thanks to the tax. Got the beats in nice and quickly.
Boarded in 2x Stony, 1x Revoker, 1x Leyline. Boarded out 4x Path.
Game 2 was actually the exact same deal as game 1, with Thalia keeping him off a lot. Also took most of his hand away with Scullers and Blew up lands with Arbiter and GQ to make casting Bridge even harder. Made for a quick game.
Game 3: 1-1-1 vs Grixis Control.
First game he was able to kill every threat I played, and I kept ripping lands, so I just sat there getting my face beat in by snapcaster and (eventually) Dark-Dwellers.
Boarded in 2x RIP, 2x Firewalker, and 1x Gideon. Boarded out 1x Revoker and 3x Strangler. Not sure if thsi boarding was right, but I felt like the RIP neutered his Tasigur, Snaps, Dwellers, and partially his commands, so it felt okay.
Game 2 was quicker, able to beat him in with 2x displacers that he couldn't remove. Pretty quick.
Game 3 I resolved a RIP, and it went too long for anyone to win. He was ahead but it could have been anyone's game. I'd give more detail but you can imagine how it went. I played a threat, he killed it. Wash, rinse, repeat. I was able to get him to 7, and I blew up a lot of his mana once he ran out of basics from paths.
Game 4: 2-0 vs 8-rack.
Not much to say. Beat him in quickly. Nothing special happened. Played creatures on curve and turned them sideways.
Boarded in 1x Leyline, 2x Firewalker (For more creatures, no point in keeping paths), and 1x Gideon. Boarded out 4x Path.
Game 2 had leyline in opening. I won, because what was he supposed to do?
Reflections: I know I went 3, but I felt like a punted way more times than I should have. I need a lot more practice before I'm making optimal plays here, but I suppose it's that way with all beginners. Anyways, Thalia was incredible, and I want to go up to four. Same with Revoker, though I' not sure if there's anything I'd want to cut for more of them. Tec edge is good, but I had problems with getting the right colors a few times, so I might make that a godless shrine.
Like I said above, I'm new to both modern and the deck. This is what I plan on running. The maindeck isn't too innovative, though I am wondering if I should up the count of selfless spirits. I'm mostly looking for any tips on the sideboard. What should I be packing? Thanks!
I'm getting into modern, and BW Eldrazi and Taxes looks exactly like the kind of deck I want to be playing. I have one question, though. Why aren't any lists running matter reshaper? It seems like pretty good value in the deck, considering that it hits everything that isn't TKS or Path.
Definitely a nice list! I think the one thing to consider is putting Mangara of Corondor in the sideboard if you want to be playing him. I can understand that the card feels powerful, and at times it definitely is -- the issue is that the combo is just so slow and unwieldy against certain decks (Death's Shadow, Burn, Affinity, etc.) that you fall behind trying to pull it off, and considering how much of the meta decks like these make up, it's a definite risk to be mainboarding Magnara. Boarding it in against slower, grindier matchups is definitely something you can and should consider, but I'd use those mainboard slots for cards that fill other holes the deck has, like selfless spirits or dark confidants.
Also, Eiganjo Castle is probably fine to replace a plains, considering that we aren't searching that much anyways. Even if it protects Thalia it's pretty good. Though, the deck is already weak to Blood Moon, so it's a definite tradeoff.
Personally, I'd consider more concealed courtyards and less godless shrines. The courtyards rarely enter untapped when it's relevant, and don't cost you the life. With 4 painlands a must-have for E&T, shocking in a shrine just adds to the pain.
Death's Shadow cannot be thrown into decks that easily. Decks with Death's Shadow have to focus on making it large quickly and usually have other synergies. If you just play it when you're almost dead to a natural game progression, it's not much of a one drop, and it probably doesn't save you/is forced to play defense. A deck like this would rather play a one drop it could play on turn one.
That about sums it up. My experience has been that unless you're running some kind of sword package in your deck, geist is a sideboard card only. He definitely has trouble making it through against a lot of the top decks, and is too slow against many others. He's powerful against control and some slower strategies, but you can just board him in then. Blade splicer is probably better for that slot.
At least, that's been my experience. Not sure how other people do it.
Also, is there a Discord that people here use? I know that other decks (like Faeries) have them, and it seems pretty useful.
It's making some weird choices, but most of it is pretty good. @SpiderSpace recently did a stream showing off the deck and tweaking it, if you want to go check it out.
The spectral flights are somewhat weird, as are the Dryad Militants. After some refining, though, it could certainly be a fine list.
I don't play UW, but from what I've seen a good starting point might be going -3 Dryad Militant, -2 Spectral Flight and up on some combination of selfless spirit, reflector mage, and spell queller. Personally, I'd go +1 Mage, +2 Selfless, +1 Queller, and +1 Revoker, but not sure if that's optimal.
Here's what I ran:
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
1 Spellskite
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Selfless Spirit
4 Aether Vial
Instants:
4 Path to Exile
Lands:
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Shambling Vent
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Ghostly Prison
Went 3-0-1.
Game 1: 2-0 vs Affinity
Guy punted all over the place game one and made what seemed like an unwinnable game into a win. Revoker does work here and I was eventually able to regain board control with Paths and Stranglers.
Boarded in 2x Stony, 1x Zealous, 1x Pontiff, 1x Revoker, 2x Ghostly Prison. Boarded out 4x Aether Vial and 3x Arbiter, if I remember correctly.
Game two I stole away his Cranial Plating with Sculler and took over the board with Displacer. Wasn't nearly as hard.
Game 2: 2-0 vs Lantern
Thalia is great. Guy mulled to five and then couldn't find the mana to cast bridge thanks to the tax. Got the beats in nice and quickly.
Boarded in 2x Stony, 1x Revoker, 1x Leyline. Boarded out 4x Path.
Game 2 was actually the exact same deal as game 1, with Thalia keeping him off a lot. Also took most of his hand away with Scullers and Blew up lands with Arbiter and GQ to make casting Bridge even harder. Made for a quick game.
Game 3: 1-1-1 vs Grixis Control.
First game he was able to kill every threat I played, and I kept ripping lands, so I just sat there getting my face beat in by snapcaster and (eventually) Dark-Dwellers.
Boarded in 2x RIP, 2x Firewalker, and 1x Gideon. Boarded out 1x Revoker and 3x Strangler. Not sure if thsi boarding was right, but I felt like the RIP neutered his Tasigur, Snaps, Dwellers, and partially his commands, so it felt okay.
Game 2 was quicker, able to beat him in with 2x displacers that he couldn't remove. Pretty quick.
Game 3 I resolved a RIP, and it went too long for anyone to win. He was ahead but it could have been anyone's game. I'd give more detail but you can imagine how it went. I played a threat, he killed it. Wash, rinse, repeat. I was able to get him to 7, and I blew up a lot of his mana once he ran out of basics from paths.
Game 4: 2-0 vs 8-rack.
Not much to say. Beat him in quickly. Nothing special happened. Played creatures on curve and turned them sideways.
Boarded in 1x Leyline, 2x Firewalker (For more creatures, no point in keeping paths), and 1x Gideon. Boarded out 4x Path.
Game 2 had leyline in opening. I won, because what was he supposed to do?
Reflections: I know I went 3, but I felt like a punted way more times than I should have. I need a lot more practice before I'm making optimal plays here, but I suppose it's that way with all beginners. Anyways, Thalia was incredible, and I want to go up to four. Same with Revoker, though I' not sure if there's anything I'd want to cut for more of them. Tec edge is good, but I had problems with getting the right colors a few times, so I might make that a godless shrine.
Any advice on the decklist?
4 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Selfless Spirit
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
3 Wasteland Strangler
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Reality Smasher
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
Lands
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Wastes
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Shambling Vent
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation