Tournament report 5-0 with list I posted prior and will post again below (this will be brief).
R1 Jund - Slow grinding round with copter being a draw engine that got me threats faster than he for answers. Closed it out without the aid of crusaders.
R2 RUW control - The deck was a home brew and wasn't optimized so I was able to take advantage of the awkward mana base.
R3 Tron - Another matchup where I won a game *solely* because of weathered wayfarer. G1 I'm on the draw and his plays are t1 tron piece into chromatic star, then tron piece 2 cast sylvan and grab piece #3. It was a very slow game since I was basically forced to grab LD turns 2-6, but it worked out and I got there. I think passing on wayfarer gives up so much against tron. I won't do it.
R4 Azban - Grindy matchups, but copter went the distance. He did eventually shoot it down, but even 2 card filters can be enough of an advantage.
R5 faeries - Suddenly the fragmentize were more relavent that usual. I only boarded in 3, but they knocked out an early bitterblossom. I also want to highlight why the singleton flagstones can make a difference. After I destroyed the first BB he played a second and I was able to cast crusader without falling behind in mana because I was able to ghost quarter the flagstones. It's a play that is almost never going to matter, but on the few times it does it's very helpful.
Anyway, was a long day all around so I will cut it short. If any specific questions let me know, but so fat this list has been very kind to me.
I run 1 flagstones because I *never* want to have an issue with my own arbiter by having two in my opener. Since there is only 1 it doesn't hurt the plains count too much and, though, it's only happened once (a couple weeks ago); I did have to ghost quarter my own flagstones to cast crusader that won me the game. The deck runs on small advantages and that is one that can happen. I honestly don't find a problem with the copter and Thalia duo. I just cast the thopter first. The advantage tends to be more of a problem for decks than the +1 to the casting cost (unless you are playing against combo). Also, I discovered people tend to misplay, which helps slows them down by a turn (more realistically half a turn). What they are doing is shorting their mana curve to leave open a one mana removal spell ,but when Thalia sticks you can still copter without fear of removal and they have to spend another turn to try again. I don't think I'm ever going back to avenger
So I just got second at our local saturday event with the following list. I lost in a game 3 mull to 5 against valakut and it came down to a 1 of two topdeck; so I'm happy with the performance. A special note goes to wayfarer who carried a tron match on his back by keeping him off balance until I was able to deal a lethal blow. I also want to comment that smuggler's copter is amazing, and now I never side out vials (*rarely* I may take out 1) because the additional draw engine helps you abuse the "free" mana vial gives you. Drawing a card for the turn, sacing a clue/canopy, *then* drawing off a thopter trigger is too much for decks to keep up with. I didn't play against affinity, but tron, valakut, g/w, burn, and death's shadow all made appearances. I think I am going to keep the 4 fragmentize in case I hit affinity, but also because it seems people are experimenting with pyrexian unlife combos and I'd rather not have to worry about it.
I'd probably keep the 3 wraths rather than a worship, but I also don't play 3 wraths.
Is the dismember for anything in particular?
I won't bring in the forgetender against grixis. With 3 crusaders and dusk//dawn to bring them back from the graveyard my preference is to keep my card draw in the deck to keep a steady pace in the game and not stall out.
I feel the same way about tectonic edge, but I still run 4. Our LD abilites are sometimes better than we know; that is, we don't always know how much it messes with out opponent because they never play the cards we stopping them from playing. That being said I still consider shaving one or two sometimes. My front runner lands are mutavault, sea gate wreckage, radiant fountain, hostile desert, scavenger grounds, and caverns. My front runners are fountain, mutavault and seagate.
Also, keep in mind my build has smuggler's copter so I'm also a little partial to wayfarer as it's another one drop that can crew it.
For wide decks the current plan, including mine, is dusk//dawn, though I think there are valid claims for wrath of god (against elves for example), but I prefer the card advantage dusk//dawn brings
Edit: also I wouldn't recommend cutting any graveyard hate. g1s against graveyard decks tend to not be very great so you need to win the next 2, also cage helps against non-graveyard decks like elves and company
I like weathered wayfarer more than most. Typically you look to board him out when on the play, but on the draw I almost always keep him in. If people want to take him out for another crusader I wouldn't argue, but I think he is under appreciated.
Yeah Revoker is hit for miss,but so is a lot of the deck. The idea is to keep your opponent tilted and Revoker goes a long way in doing so. Again, I keep mine in, but people that take it out for a crusader are probably fine.
You can try a 2/2 split, but I have tried it and I prefer the 4 relics. Though, that being said, I have lost a round because ingot chewer kills relic, but RIP would have been ok. The relics lack the brute strength of RIP, but are easier to cast (esp through thalia), are easier on the curve, and cantrip instead of being dead draws when in multiples.
The key difference between forge tender and alliance is that forge tender prevents red wrath effects from destroying your board presence. It's an ok card against burn, there are better cards, but it's an ok card against burn that is also an excellent card against red board wipes.
I like worship as a card. I hate facing a worship, but I also hate relying on it. Outside of merfolk decks typically have a way of dealing with it somehow, so I don't want to rely on it. For example, Affinity may not be able to destroy the worship, but an unanswered grid can just kill your creatures.
Stony silence is good, but in no way guarantees a win against affinity. If affinity is prevalent I think 3 is the way to go, rather than 2, but I think I'm going to try 4 fragmentise this weekend instead. My current build is slightly different, which is key, but I'm finding the vials to be more clutch in the affinity matchup than previously thought. The freeing up of your mana is huge against affinity so you can open your GQ and edges, while cantriping to relvent cards with canopy and clues.
I feel like a lot of your questions can be broken down into 1 decision. D&T is an aggro deck that plans to keep your opponent "off their game" and there are two ways to do that; more passively, with finesse, by throwing small hurdles in their way (revoker, wayfarer, relics); or with more brute strength with less efficient cards, but cards with more board presence (crusader, RIP, Stony). The question you need to ask yourself is, "which type of player am I?".
Do you want your opponent to respect your threats more than your ability to hinder theirs? Are you confident in your play decisions to make your game strategy one long story rather than trying to just out muscle them? To an extent D&T inherently is a strategy that does both, but your answer will help guide your flex spots.
Yeah, it does turn on kolgath's command a bit more, but the flip side to that is you can mitigate wrath effects. I don't play merfolk and I suspect with tribal decks the downsides of copter are more apparent. I do think you are echoing my original point though, copter is amazing in the deck, but is it good enough to compensate the lack of stony...
So this is the list I am trying out presently. I have more burn in my meta than control, which is why the caverns was replaced. The only thing I don't like about this deck list, so far, is that I don't think I'm able to run stony silence in the board because of the nombos. I haven't found a replacement,yet. They can have a problem with worship, but stony also helps against random decks like lantern control and kci. I definitely think the copters are better than avengers, but am wondering if the mb comes at too great a cost of the sb.
2 dusk//dawn (which I discovered is key for the random non meta matchups)
1 linvala, keeper of silence
1 worship
2 sunlance
2 burrington forge-tender
2 mirran crusader
4 relic of progenitus
1 graftdiggers cage
On the draw, depending on the board? I would say dredge, mirror, affinity, eldrazi, azban, jund (but less so), death and taxes, tron, and Merfolk because I assume u have better cards in sb
I'm not going to play him. This isn't legacy. Eidolon could be randomly good, I suppose, but maybe when control and combo make up more of the meta I will give it more considering. The current meta seems terrible for it, especially when on the draw. I would rather have something consistently good.
With jund/k their 2 drops are better than yours (eidolon). It seems like he would be really bad on the draw when he is played into a losing board position
R1 Jund - Slow grinding round with copter being a draw engine that got me threats faster than he for answers. Closed it out without the aid of crusaders.
R2 RUW control - The deck was a home brew and wasn't optimized so I was able to take advantage of the awkward mana base.
R3 Tron - Another matchup where I won a game *solely* because of weathered wayfarer. G1 I'm on the draw and his plays are t1 tron piece into chromatic star, then tron piece 2 cast sylvan and grab piece #3. It was a very slow game since I was basically forced to grab LD turns 2-6, but it worked out and I got there. I think passing on wayfarer gives up so much against tron. I won't do it.
R4 Azban - Grindy matchups, but copter went the distance. He did eventually shoot it down, but even 2 card filters can be enough of an advantage.
R5 faeries - Suddenly the fragmentize were more relavent that usual. I only boarded in 3, but they knocked out an early bitterblossom. I also want to highlight why the singleton flagstones can make a difference. After I destroyed the first BB he played a second and I was able to cast crusader without falling behind in mana because I was able to ghost quarter the flagstones. It's a play that is almost never going to matter, but on the few times it does it's very helpful.
Anyway, was a long day all around so I will cut it short. If any specific questions let me know, but so fat this list has been very kind to me.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
1 eiganjo castle
8 plains
4 horizon canopy
1 flagstones of trokair
1 radiant fountain
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
4 Thraben inspector
1 phyrexian revoker
1 weathered wayfarer
4 flickerwisp
4 leonin arbiter
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 restoration angel
1 mirran crusader
4 blade splicer
2 smuggler’s copter
SB
4 fragmentize
4 relic of progenitus
2 forgetender
2 mirran crusader
1 graftdiggers cage
2 dusk//dawn
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
1 eiganjo castle
8 plains
4 horizon canopy
1 flagstones of trokair
1 radiant fountain
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
4 Thraben inspector
1 phyrexian revoker
1 weathered wayfarer
4 flickerwisp
4 leonin arbiter
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 restoration angel
1 mirran crusader
4 blade splicer
2 smuggler’s copter
2 dusk/dawn
4 Fragmentize
2 burrington forge tender
2 mirran crusader
4 relic of progenitus
1 graftdigger's cage
I'd probably keep the 3 wraths rather than a worship, but I also don't play 3 wraths.
Is the dismember for anything in particular?
I won't bring in the forgetender against grixis. With 3 crusaders and dusk//dawn to bring them back from the graveyard my preference is to keep my card draw in the deck to keep a steady pace in the game and not stall out.
I don't see any glaring holes in your sb plan.
Keep us posted.
Also, keep in mind my build has smuggler's copter so I'm also a little partial to wayfarer as it's another one drop that can crew it.
For wide decks the current plan, including mine, is dusk//dawn, though I think there are valid claims for wrath of god (against elves for example), but I prefer the card advantage dusk//dawn brings
Edit: also I wouldn't recommend cutting any graveyard hate. g1s against graveyard decks tend to not be very great so you need to win the next 2, also cage helps against non-graveyard decks like elves and company
Yeah Revoker is hit for miss,but so is a lot of the deck. The idea is to keep your opponent tilted and Revoker goes a long way in doing so. Again, I keep mine in, but people that take it out for a crusader are probably fine.
You can try a 2/2 split, but I have tried it and I prefer the 4 relics. Though, that being said, I have lost a round because ingot chewer kills relic, but RIP would have been ok. The relics lack the brute strength of RIP, but are easier to cast (esp through thalia), are easier on the curve, and cantrip instead of being dead draws when in multiples.
The key difference between forge tender and alliance is that forge tender prevents red wrath effects from destroying your board presence. It's an ok card against burn, there are better cards, but it's an ok card against burn that is also an excellent card against red board wipes.
I like worship as a card. I hate facing a worship, but I also hate relying on it. Outside of merfolk decks typically have a way of dealing with it somehow, so I don't want to rely on it. For example, Affinity may not be able to destroy the worship, but an unanswered grid can just kill your creatures.
Stony silence is good, but in no way guarantees a win against affinity. If affinity is prevalent I think 3 is the way to go, rather than 2, but I think I'm going to try 4 fragmentise this weekend instead. My current build is slightly different, which is key, but I'm finding the vials to be more clutch in the affinity matchup than previously thought. The freeing up of your mana is huge against affinity so you can open your GQ and edges, while cantriping to relvent cards with canopy and clues.
I feel like a lot of your questions can be broken down into 1 decision. D&T is an aggro deck that plans to keep your opponent "off their game" and there are two ways to do that; more passively, with finesse, by throwing small hurdles in their way (revoker, wayfarer, relics); or with more brute strength with less efficient cards, but cards with more board presence (crusader, RIP, Stony). The question you need to ask yourself is, "which type of player am I?".
Do you want your opponent to respect your threats more than your ability to hinder theirs? Are you confident in your play decisions to make your game strategy one long story rather than trying to just out muscle them? To an extent D&T inherently is a strategy that does both, but your answer will help guide your flex spots.
4 tectonic edge
4 ghost quarter
1 eiganjo castle
8 plains
4 horizon canopy
1 flagstones of trokair
1 radiant fountain
4 path to exile
4 aether vial
4 Thraben inspector
1 phyrexian revoker
1 weathered wayfarer
4 flickerwisp
4 leonin arbiter
4 thalia, guardian of thraben
4 restoration angel
1 mirran crusader
4 blade splicer
2 smuggler’s copter
2 dusk//dawn (which I discovered is key for the random non meta matchups)
1 linvala, keeper of silence
1 worship
2 sunlance
2 burrington forge-tender
2 mirran crusader
4 relic of progenitus
1 graftdiggers cage