I've been in the tank a bit, talking with Stsung, about magic theory and concepts, don't think either of us have found the mystical Fountain of Youth, although I'm sure we'll both play the role of Ponce de Leon or Asuza, to stay on flavor, and keep seeking. One of the concepts that we've spoken about at length is tempo theory. And, at the end of the day, how we even define tempo is something that is a bit opaque in nature. Denotatively, at least in the definition relevant to this article and not pertaining to music (which is only a specific application of the same idea anyway), this term applies to rate, rhythm, or pattern. In this case, I'd apply it to rate, but all of these describe the same general idea which is periodicity, whether that is governed by a fixed rate (it rarely is in MTG) or variable. Periodicity or rate, is not a measure per se of speed, in the denotative it measures the occurrence of an event or thing as it is presented over time. For example, a deck like legacy or vintage storm, or insert X combo deck here, may win extremely fast, turn 1 kills are a thing, but they are rarely based around the concept of tempo, the only time they ever make a play that could be considered a tempo impacting play is the turn they cast their card that wins. If anything, then these decks are actually exemplars of negative tempo in exchange for investment, because as a lot of players will banally note, "they don't play a real game of magic", and I would proffer that the reason this opinion exists is because these decks function completely outside of the realm of tempo (interaction in the non-virtual sense, ie discard etc), although I tend to think it's a vague statement that overlays a much simpler concept, again: tempo.
I propose that tempo as it applies to this game, is a measure of one of two things: 1. Direct progression of the boardstate toward victory, presenting threats, or in casting a card or using mana for an effect that directly applies toward winning the game 2. Direct impact on denying the opponent the ability to do the same. Anything outside of these two things does not impact tempo. I think the most elegant definition is likely: The rate at which cards and mana are spent to directly impact the outcome of victory.
You will often see a card like man'o'war be heralded as a great tempo card and you can see why through application of the definition above: this card presents a fair body at 2/2 for 3 mana but it essentially has mana short written on it after it has resolved, if the opponent has invested in a relevant creature threat that it can target. Although, this example is quite simple and most people, whether they have thought through why man'o'war accrues them tempo, know that it does. But objectively speaking it does so at a great exchange rate and impacts both sides of the tempo coin by presenting a threat that directly impacts the player of said card's ability to win and denies the opponent the same capability. You'll also hear player's say "I timewalked him/her" in plenty of formats where the card isn't legal and in effect what they're saying is I've exchanged favorably a full turns worth of draw and untap with the opponent; obviously man'o'war is only half of this equation, the opponent will still be up on cards, but they've taken a turn off to get solely a draw and land drop.
This may be overstatement of an obvious thing to some, but I think where understanding of tempo tends to break down for players is in the less obvious plays or card selection, where I believe many players accrue incremental (extremely subtle) tempo loss over the course of games.
I believe the number one cause of negative tempo accruement comes from player's choosing value over tempo. Value is a whole separate concept, but I tend to think in the context of this game, it can be summed up in contrast to tempo.
Tempo: "What's up, I'm tempo, I'll give you this right now and you have today and only today to take it" vs.
Value: "Goodday Sir, I'm value, can I interest you in investing now to reap dividends later for your 401K or kid's college saving fund".
Yeah sure one's a greasy car salesman, but you're driving off the lot today and getting where you need to go, and if you play your cards (pun intended) right, then there may be no need for a tomorrow. While value will pay in the long game, if the long game can be relegated to moot, then, well, it is moot.
I think there's a special sort of art that goes into balancing the two and some of it comes down to a science of knowing the relevant cards that can be presented by the opponent and how they pair against your own, but the largest part comes down to a sense of where in time and space the game lies to determine momentum, and either making the determination to swing for the fences like Casey (beatdown) or hang back and keep the game at your speed (control). And a lot has been written about who's the beat down and who's the control (Mike Flores), but realistically that's not the complete point here, both beatdown and control impact tempo, because both seek to impact directly the outcome of the game whether that be through active means or denial. Value does neither, which is its weakness that many people fail to account for.
So what do value cards look like: value cards are cantrips, they are tutors, they're comes into play tapped dual, scry, or manlands, they're shrine of burning rage and sulfuric vortex -- they are cards that invest in the future at the expense of today (there are some rarities that play both roles, they are great: Duskwatch Recruiter). And while, your parents probably told you to invest wisely, the dark truth is you'll eventually die and that stuff means nothing for you in an objective sense after you have (sure your kid's might get it, but is that relevant for you in the state of death [broader question, but hey let's be honest do we objectively know] and is that a given/known)--this is dark for dramatic hyperbole, but it displays a common misconception about the power of selection in this game or rather it displays the need for exacting use of it in time and place to allow the power of value and investment to persevere. It will always accrue negative tempo at the cost of a latent power; this is not to say that tempo plays will not have effects turn cycles down the road much the same as value plays, but their impact will not be in the active role at that time.
I'm not saying anyone should play without value in mind, value is great and it is necessary, but just as much as understanding the role you should assume in the game for aggro vs. control, is understanding when value should and must be eschewed to effect tempo and the opposite. When do you choose one over the other? I think this comes down to intuition (a solid grasp of the hidden information at stake and how that could affect you), knowledge of the card pool, as well as understanding of your opponent.
I don't think there's an equation to determine when to take the value line of play or when to take the tempo line, there's too many variables at stake and often you're making these decisions with several unknowns; however, I wanted to offer this game write up to enlighten or at least display what I consider to be solid play that may not be apparently obvious, but was decided upon by me as a player as a result of the tempo definition and theory the way I see it:
I am playing a Death and Taxes 100 CS singleton deck, my opponent is on what I assume to a 3-4 color midrange value deck, which I assume I am not favored against. My deck is not 100% assured to be the beat down at all times in this match, but I go into the game assuming that I will be the beat down, until a point at which I'm likely losing. I also know that I will need to progress my strategy which is aggressive, rapidly through efficient use of my mana to present threats, while simultaneously assessing his possible holdings and accruing value where I do not take loss of tempo which is the basis of my strategy. The below report is of a game two after winning my previous game against the opponent, we both begin with 7 cards in hand and the opponent chooses to put me on the draw (positive tempo for him, positive value for me [and vice versa, generally throughout]). My keep consists of the following: 2x plains, 1x Weathered Wayfarer, 1x Steelshaper's Gift, 1x Mirran Crusader, 1x Figure of Destiny, and 1x Porcelain Legionnaire. This hand is actually quite value or investment heavy for this deck (wayfarer and gift), but I opt to keep based upon the power of a T1 wayfarer on the draw, allowing a fetch for wasteland to generate both value and in the belief that his lands were far more relevant than mine over the course of the game (generating virtual tempo, influencing the course of a game many turns later).
Game:
He plays a turn 1 treetop village (negative tempo, high value) and passes it back to me. I draw a plains for the turn and cast my weathered wayfarer as expected and pass it back (positive tempo, although very little it's a 1/1 for 1 mana, positive value I've invested in card that will accrue me value, he must now deal with it or allow me the dividends). On turn 2, the opponent plays a wooded foothills sacrificing it to find a tropical island, he then casts a preordain (negative tempo, high value) and then passes it back to me. I draw a windbrisk heights for the turn, and use my plains to fetch with wayfarer for wasteland, then use the wasteland to destroy his tropical island (measured as an even or slight loss of tempo, for now, but positive value, I've draw a card for one mana and activation of an effect that would have otherwise attacked for 1 damage). I pass it back and on turn 3 the opponent plays a krosan verge (negative tempo, but positive value, this card is a 2 for 1, but not right now and not for free later). The opponent passes it back and we draw Accorder Paladin for the turn, we again opt to fetch with our wayfarer this time getting a karakas, we then use the karakas to play out our Figure of Destiny (even to slight loss of tempo, while we've not played our most relevant threat the accorder or the legionnaire, we have still made a play that can present a sizable threat to a midrange deck down the road, gain in value, we've drawn a free land card: karakas that has the upside of impacting either our tempo (in the active role against his threats presented and where applicable) or more virtual value in the defensive role of returning our own legends, if we find any, back to hand against removal (card advantage)). We pass it back and on T4 the opponent plays a polluted delta and passes (at this point if he fetches an untapped land, he can activate the krosan verge). We draw a Gideon's Lawkeeper for the turn, and assess that we need to begin aggression against the opponent, who we are not currently pressuring highly, and use our mana to present threats that he must deal with: we eschew another wayfarer activation and main 1 cast our Mirran Crusader, to allow him the mistake of countering this card and not fetching for two lands with the krosan verge, but this is also dual purpose play, we also know he cannot block "for free" (nothing is free) our figure of destiny if he chooses to counter, he allows it to resolve (increase in tempo, we've presented a sizeable threat that has landed on the board, no value). We attack in, while tapped out, with our figure of destiny, he opts to activate his treetop village and block and kill our figure of destiny "for free" (loss in tempo for us, gain in tempo for him, but loss of value from being unable to cash in on his investment in krosan verge on our turn; and I assess a gain in virtual tempo for us, based upon our holdings, we can present two threats easily on the following turn and the effect of not getting the two lands will be worse by our estimate than losing a 1/1 that will stay a 1/1 for a while. Frankly, and because of this, I also don't care to invest in the Figure of Destiny, my mana will be too tied up going wider to combat what I assume are larger creature's he'll be playing). We do intend on keeping the wayfarer to allow flexibility the following turn (value play); we are at this point at land parity; if he can play an additional land, we intend on still presenting at least one threat (legionnaire), but enabling us to fetch for tectonic edge to hit the most applicable land (virtual value down the road (1 turn) and virtual tempo much further down the road (2 turns), but overall use of wayfarer for tutoring is immediately a value play). After passing it back, on T5 the opponent misses his land drop, but plays a morph creature (I assume it to be den protector in these colors) (positive tempo, no change in value now, but virtual value gained if he can commit 2 mana more into his initial investment). He passes it back and we draw Hero of Bladehold for the turn, we play a plains from hand and attack in with the Mirran Crusader for 4 damage, he does not opt to block. We then cast our Hero of Bladehold, which gets countered by Force of Will, pitching a Reflector Mage (positive tempo for the opponent, but all things are relative we've currently got the upper hand on board, and a large value drop in the expenditure of two cards for one). We pass it back not having substantially altered the board state, on T6 the opponent draws a Steam Vents and plays it out untapped (negative tempo for him as his life total is not an irrelevant resource) and plays a True Name Nemesis (positive tempo, no change in current value, but a virtual value loss in being unable to activate the morphed den protector or the krosan verge). The opponent attacks with his morph which goes unblocked (positive tempo, no change in value). The opponent passes the turn and we draw a Thalia, heretic cathar for the turn, play out our windbrisk heights (negative tempo, but high value, and we don't need the mana this turn) and put a Sword of Fire and Ice under it; we then cast our Thalia and pass the turn (positive tempo overall we've presented a sizeable threat that will accrue virtual tempo throughout the game, even if we've eschewed playing a land that does not come into play untapped; high value, we have a two mana investment to get a high power card (SoFI) into play on the following turn, by doing something the deck needs to be doing anyway--attacking). We pass it back and on T6 the opponent plays a bayou that comes into play tapped due to Thalia (virtual tempo having a real tempo effect, in a way the commodity you're investing in with a card like thalia is tempo, but she presents a threat in and of herself, ie an actual tempo play as well, more to follow on this idea though). The opponent passes it back with no attacks, at this point his life total is 9, ours is 18, we draw brave the elements for the turn, we cast it, choosing blue, and attack for the fences (high tempo, low value play we've spent a card to trade for damage, but we also expect that he may have to make unfavorable blocks to stay alive, so virtual value accrued), he blocks with the morphed den protector against the Weathered Wayfarer and we get in for 7 damage off of Thalia and Mirran Crusader. Following the attack step we activate our wind brisk heights to get our SoFI (high value play, low tempo), it get's mana leaked (low tempo use of a card to generate a loss of value now for us and denial of tempo on the next turn for us), we then cast our steel shaper's gift finding Sword of Feast and Famine (low tempo, high value/investment) and use our last mana to play out a Gideon's Lawkeeper (which here is a tempo play, as it presents a 1/1 threat, but also accrues a whole boat of virtual tempo down the road due to being able to deal with threats costing many times it's mana exchange rate and the overhead cost of the card itself, value). The opponent unmorphs his den protector at endstep getting back preordain (all value play, virtual in what that card will do next turn and real in that he just got a card back for "free"). On the opponents turn 8, he casts preordain, and plays a savannah and passes it back. We draw a plains for the turn, and decide that we need to go wider than the opponent play out our legionnaire and our accorder paladin, eschewing the investment of the Sword of Feast and Famine and enabling us to use Gideons Lawkeeper on his endstep to tap his den protector and any other flash critter he can play before we pass the turn (with an active thalia, critters played on his turn will be tapped--virtual tempo); this turn is all tempo with no investment/value; we are preparing the team to swing for the fences (this is the continuous strategy in general of white weenie based decks, but as you've read we did not always make tempo based plays throughout this write up/game, we've balanced both, that is why I refrain from describing this deck as white weenie and label it D&T and it is the fundamental difference between both decks). We pass it back at this point, the opponent finally activates his krosan verge played 5 turns ago (positive value, but you can't take it with you to the grave) fetching a dryad arbor (blocker) and another land. We pass it and he plays nothing of relevance, we tap his den protector during his endstep and then tap the arbor during our main 1, and then we swing in for the win. This game can also be watched in my previous video of the Christmas matches played yesterday and I think it's actually a very interactive game on many levels not all of which are obvious or apparent in their importance or impact on the game.
I hope you do not assume I mean to eschew value, you can't, you shouldn't and you need not, but it needs to be in balance with tempo. These two things, tempo and value/investment, are what drives the aggro and control role decision cycle, but I'd proffer more so they are the driving theory behind the game, the meta-game (sic), more so than card advantage, curve theory, etc, because all of these things come as a need to assuage one of these two fundamental ideas to drive a game toward the desired endstate by both players. I look at them as a devil (of course that would be tempo) and an angel (yep of course it is) both competing for my soul and I have to madly dance while appeasing both with equanimity and in proportion to my soul's (gamestate in the real and the possible) current state. That's about it, sorry if that's a lot of crap to say something that I think is relatively simple, but I think it's so simple that it often get's ignored and sometimes to player's detriment. I'd also be curious if anyone has a creative way to model this idea theoretically as it would be interesting to see if math/gaming theory generate a non-linear diff eq. that could generate the answers to this given all of the variables and permutations involved with in it.
Anyway, that's about it, hope if it's not enlightening, it's at least interesting and fun to read.
Take it easy all, and I'll throw up a few matches later.
--KB
PS-Forgot to answer my more to follow in regards to Thalia or rather cards that can play a role as both a tempo and investment cards, and it's quite simple: they're the most busted cards in the game. For example ever wonder why planes walkers are so great (+tempo/+value), eternal witness, snapcaster mage, etc. I think you get the idea, but cards that enable positive growth in both tempo and value simultaneously and in a real/non-virtual sense are the best cards in the game and I tend to think this theory helps to explain why. That's to say, I think it's silly for me to tell you that snapcaster is good, but if you apply this theory to say draft or any format, it helps as an assessment/evaluation tool, and while it may not be everyday that you get cards that do both simultaneously and at the point of their resolution, there's a lot of cards that impact one upon resolution and gain or accrue virtual advantage in the other.
Another funny thing about both the concepts of value and tempo is that they drive fundamental human desires for respectively cognitive superiority (ego) and gratification (id), both things in their base are emotional and beyond reason, but hey maybe that's why we come back for more
P.S.S. After a few hours of thinking about it the use of virtual tempo or value (accrual of either commodity over assumed gamestate at a later point) is likely not the correct lexicon. I think in many ways both are highly mutable and can change from one to another, based upon outcome of endstate, in a lot of cases the component I call virtual tempo, is in fact value being actualized from earlier tempo, which I think is a more elegant model to frame this perspective and theory of game play but is slightly more difficult to establish distinguishability between both over a long enough time horizon, therefore the use of "virtual" as a term to describe the effect. In a lot of ways these both are yin and yang, and while they are different, they do overlap continuously and if the proper decisions are made (and of course you need to get lucky) then in harmony as well.
Merry Christmas to all I've put a 5 match EXPO set up here that includes games from RECSUR, Grixis Control, and RDWs against players SenseiRob and SugarDaddyofWizardry: 100 CS EXPO Matches. Hope you enjoy.
Stsung,
Based upon our conversation(s) had a chance to import your decklist from yesterday; a few lines of thinking I had:
I understand the theme of the deck being very low in critter count, but I'd be curious to take out the restoration angel (the 4 spot is already pretty heavy anyway and outside of an ambusher you're not likely to recur many ETBs so it's a lower synergy card) and try torrential gearhulk. The benefit of this is a higher upside ambusher that can also be fetched by mystical teachings like the angel, but with your instant count this thing could be bonkers in the deck and I think give a more potent play over the angel albeit less efficient, but your 4 slot is pretty heavy already so I don't think the mana will be left fallow.
I tend to like cards like oust and condemn in decks like this but could understand if you'd chose to forgo them in an effort to maximize your ability to deal with non-critter effects or spells and get rid of the clowns with sweepers. These may even be slightly better than path to exile in some cases as they do not give your opponent card advantage, obviously objectively they are not, because one is not instant speed and the other is conditional, but in this build I can see a home because you don't give a darn about life total as long as you're alive and you likely expect to be the defender for quite sometime until your opponent is ground out.
I think I'd consider a tithe package as well as a weathered wayfarer add. I don't think they're auto includes in any white deck, but it's close, and both just grind out so much card advantage one for nominal to no tempo loss and the other for a bit more tempo loss (wayfarer, but you can always do it on their endstep, etc). If you wanted to get real spicy I could see land tax as well (maybe look at parfait options with scroll rack, but this might be too cute, depending upon fluctuation of hand size from empirical testing), but then you're looking at a mox diamond add and likely a daze, deprive package, which further enables it but would accrue you tempo loss in getting to the 4 spot. So this is a bit more questionable, but not totally in left field. These all likely come out in games where you know you'll be put on the play, but the flexibility of wayfarer I think makes it worthwhile (although it possibly opens up further negative tempo but high power land cards like maze of ith, tolaria west but even now allows a find on wasteland/tech, colonnade, and karakas all of which can be pretty darned good in a lot of places)
I also tend to like stifle; I never thought this card was great in this format, but it can stop so many broken things and can often just be a secondary wasteland; I've stifled transmutes, fetch lands, PW ultimates, hermit druid activations, shrine of burning rage death, other's wastelands, etc and the card has rarely been dead for me although it seems unassuming it tends to be pretty great in most matchups for the rate of one mana. Sorry to go on and on about the card, I know you know it very well, but I elaborate for anyone that might be less familiar with it.
I also think a curious, but possibly good or at least testable option in the 3 CMC slot could be ashiok, nightmare weaver. This fellow, is innocuously good, and although he doesn't protect himself, per se, as a T3 play, with a +2 ability, he tends to at a minimum live to turn 4 when you are likely to sweep the board. I think if he stays in play post wrath your chance of randomly winning off of him are fairly high, or at least it can buy you a bunch of time as the opponent figures out how to deal with him before he finds X. I wasn't sold on him initially because he doesn't pass the typical PW test, but he's pretty deece, played with him a bit and in a primarily critter based meta, I think he's a good place to be. The argument against this card is it's definitely not a come from behind card whatsoever, but with the level of manipulation that deck runs my guess is you're very rarely playing "off the top ropes" as I like to say.
I think there's a possible debate over venser, shaper savant in this deck; he's a great card, but I think a scalable effect similar to this one that this deck could benefit from is cyclonic rift. It will never present a 2/2 ambusher, but it can either get rid of a specific problem threat that you could not deal with earlier in the game, but have found an answer for in your permission package and it does this 2 turns earlier than venser, or it can just send it all back to hand later down the road for a whole slew of time in a format lacking P9 level mana support.
Sorry, earlier when we were talking about it, I looked through the deck list, but for me to truly conceptualize something I have to see it tend to be a visual human, so I imported the list and kind of perused it to see if I had any thoughts on it.
Very lovely and potent build and well played. So, I hope the comments don't come off as disparaging, I assure you they're not, I'm just going through the process we spoke about recently of understanding how a thing, in this case your deck, objectively works (finding the path) how it may work better (and below, for the rub ins :P, how it can be stopped or at least slow its roll a bit, and it's a new card to boot )
P.S. Michelle tell me Sanctum Prelate isn't a board card, I wish I'd gotten to use the little fellow he'd have done some work if I ever resolved him (and that might be a big if , but hey a fella can dream big). The 4 spot is a nice place to blank against control
Yeah, I sometimes forget to turn the sounds off when I'm playing, if I continue making them I probably need to invest in a headset too, I'm not a quite person, but I probably sound as such due to using the computer's external speakers etc, to capture my voice from about 3-4 feet. I'll do my best to remember the modo sounds next time and appreciate the input on the production. Happy New Years all.
Crucible is likely too slow as well but worth a nod, as running a singleton of this in the deck can give some extra miles against STAX in eternal. But, again, probably too slow and definately not trink mage in eternal, where the card shines in the bomberman archetype, which is not mtgo playable (time), but definitely is IRL.
Congratulations to Stsung for her victory today, and I wish I could have put you to the D&T test :). Awesome to see so many more folks joining in for the slaughter. Unfortunately, my live recording was botched due to failure to inspect the viewable frame of my monitor recording; many apologies, I've attached a recording here of the replays from my matches with D&T, but obviously lost the remainder of the matches that I jumped into as a watcher, commentator. However, and I'm sorry in advance, I want to give Frycek a big shout out for teaching Michelle the Price of Progress
In the spirit of the holidays I made a live recording of two commander matches for fun and to test my computer's ability to record live play. The matches aren't that great we end up stomping our opponents, but it's the Gifts Ungiven that we remember, Enjoy and Happy Holidays! Videos are here: ThraxBreaksFaces
Best Holiday wishes to all. The following link shows some playtesting between myself and SugarDaddy of Wizardry as well as two casual matches with Tikhon and Stsung: EXPO Matches #5.
Ran into Stsung, which is sort of like finding a unicorn, or something :), we played out some fun matches between a Jeskai Twin Deck I'm working on and my Death and Taxes/White Weenie build against her version of Blue Moon and played some good games out. The matches are linked here: EXPO Matches (vs Stsung) .
Here's a new video installment of my Vs. Series against Michelle Wong; this time Jeskai Planeswalkers take on Enchantess and Blue Moon takes on RDW: EXPO Matches 3 . Enjoy and sorry for waxing poetic on RDW's!
Yeah I am quite the Timmy, but I vacillate between many modes, I enjoy winning as well, but not in the same way that some do, for me it's mostly finding the best or most elegant path to that end-state (victory) as opposed to the winning itself.
I tend to disagree with you on the conversion of the door prize, I don't play in other PRE's habitually like I do in the CSM, but I have tried most of them once. In the Gatherling vintage PRE, they typically award their 1 x excess tik to a budget build, and players bring decent budget decks to that format (they don't often win though, because, and let's be honest, the most busted cards are generally the most expensive for a reason (until they're restricted or banned aka hermit druid, bloodbraid elf ), they win very rapidly). But I could also understand your concern that it would often go to the same player or folks may try to exploit it. In that case, if I ever win and we stick with the current door prize system, just put my tiks in the door prize (that could have a similar effect although obviously it's not a sure thing at all :P, but I find variable conditioning generally works best anyway). And if you haven't checked out Penny Dreadful (which is essentially "real" Pauper) then you don't know how powerful, consistent, and efficient/broken a $.60 deck can be (guess in this case it would be $1.00 even ).
In regards to the issue of voting ratios, I think simple majority should be required for a ban or unban; as much I harp on putting more cards in the game (I'd hate to see any leave as well), I also think the format is quite lovely the way it stands now and while I would like a long list of cards to "get in there", their exclusion doesn't hinder the fun I have playing the game, plus we wouldn't be having this conversation if a few folks hadn't decided to keep this format alive.
I agree the body on prelate falls pretty short in the 3 drop as far as relevant body size . It's competing with cards like Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Silverblade Paladin, Flickerwisp (don't knock this one till you've tried him), Thalia, Heretic Cathar, Aven Mindcensor, Boros Reckoner, etc. Some of which fall prey to Karakas , but all of which are better threats by far and their disruption if applicable is more powerful. I think this is a sideboard card all the way, but I think at least in the build that I run this is worth an inclusion in the SB, it would likely replace the Banisher Priest against the control matchup, it replaces a like body at a like mana cost, with the banisher being far less impactful in the control matchup if played on curve. I think you'll note the power of a card like Selfless Spirit, pretty sure it won me a finals against you when you likely had and wanted to play a wrath, this card has a similar effect (albeit not having flying and being a 3 drop are detriments, but I think this is somewhat mitigated by equipment, especially in a deck where it is easy to find). I think the larger impact you will see is in Legacy play, D&T always had to be worried about Counter Balance's Terminus play on their turn. CB decks still run supreme verdict, but I wouldn't be shocked if someone builds a board for this deck, if CB is expected in high volume in the meta, with Selfless Spirits to get Supreme Verdicts, and the prelate (naming 6) to stop terminus (ntm this is a stoneforge deck usually, so they can def equip the weaker body up). The interesting thing will be, because in a lot of ways this card is very similar to chalice of the void (in the right matchup) is how players distribute effects across the mana curve to compensate (does hallowed burial become a thing), as chalice (prior to restriction) had that effect on vintage, where players would have 1 mana (nature's claim, wear//tear), 2 mana (ancient grudge, disenchant, hurkyll's recall), 3 mana (rebuild, trygon pred, dack fayden), 5 mana (ingot chewer), and 6 mana (pulverize) hate cards to increase the variance in their answers to mitigate the impact of chalice on their low curve decks. 100CS decks are a far cry from vintage or legacy decks, the curve is just significantly higher and wider, but I think the 4 spot is pretty sweet for control decks against an aggro based strategy, ie if you can't cast the cards here at some point, you're going to have a difficult time getting to 7-8 mana when you cast multiple spells in a turn, or a haymaker like karn, etc without being beaten to death. There are plenty of cards out there that can play around this guy, but they're fewer and often they cost more mana (5 at least to have a similar effect); which again is fine, because I'm looking for this little fella to be a timewalk for me, in this matchup specifically. Either way, the nice thing about a deck like D&T is it has a lot of flexibility for SBing, white is a hateful color, and the deck doesn't need to commit a lot against RDW, because it tends to stomp that matchup very handily with it's better critters.
So, at the end of the day, I don't think prelate is a powerhouse, but I think it has a place at the table in the SB for the control matchup and I think despite it's less than stellar stats, it will earn it's place at the right time and place.
Random side note about the "treasure chest" card releases on MTGO:
I think RDW got a strong pull in the Grenzo, Havoc Raiser; this card is a fine beater at RR for a 2/2; the ability to force a midrange opponent to attack can be crucial as it will tend to force their T3-4 plays which are typically defensive in nature while they build up to a thragtusk or batterskull on turn 5. Additionally, this little fellow gives RDW something that it generally has in short supply: a form of card advantage. At the two spot there are very few RDW cards that can replicate this effect a few being Young Pyromancer ; Fire//Ice ; and Abbot of Keral Keep; the fact that the card also fixes (you may use colorless mana to cast spells off the top of the opponent's deck, is also a large boon. In the mirror I assume this card will be a breaker or will have to be dealt with very rapidly (which is also a breaker because the opponent is down on tempo and card resources that would have ideally gone to face). I think this guy definitely has a home in 100CS RDW's build of all types and what he brings to the table is likely stronger than a cards like Kargan Dragonlord (this one is more close), Slith Firewalker , or Stigma Lasher .
Also, I think if you're a fan of the White Weenie or Death and Taxes Archetype another more unsuspecting card that I think deserves a strong SB consideration is Sanctum Prelate . If you've had the chance to watch my deck tech and match play of my D&T build, you'll find that I highly value "wrath-proof" or disruptive cards in this sort of horizontal or curve based rush strategy (often times one turn is all you need to close out on either midrange or control). This card is essentially a chalice of the void for 3 mana that blanks out the most relevant wraths (outside of toxic deluge), in the format (it takes care of Wrath of God , Supreme Verdict, Damnation, Mutilate, Massacre, Moat , and Humility , get's a bunch of really relevant PW's as well). The fact that it comes with a 2/2 body is great as well, but really what you're looking to use this card for, I think, is as a 3 mana timewalk, that allows you to hit for the fences with the clown brigade to pull the curtains on the opposition when all you need is one more turn. I think this is a strong SB card against the control archetype as these builds tend to run their largest card advantage cards FoF, *** effects, and PW's at 4, if they are unable to get a *** off on T4, they're likely going to lose. I think this unsuspecting little card is a powerhouse in this matchup; he's not so hot against midrange as the body is small and while you might mise a natural order or a birthing pod, chances are they came out a turn earlier than this fellow can hit the board.
Obviously the singular power of Leovold has already been displayed as the card is now in a vintage "fish" deck and Recruiter of the Guard has obvious implications for kiki-jiki combo decks that would be served well by an additional "imperial recruiter" to find the needed pieces of the combo.
Thought I'd share my assessments of some of the less obvious good cards and hope it was worth while, hope to see some of these new gems in the format.
Sorry didn't notice your query before--So, as a matter of course, I enjoy playing highly complicated and challenging games, games where, if I make one misstep I am rewarded with irrevocable results and a loss. I enjoy combo play, sometimes it just gets you and there is not a better line that could have taken into account the other permutations of the game state that would have allowed you to avoid it, or better use an opposing combo players momentum against them to win the game--So essentially I enjoy high risk, high reward games that involve powerful cards and effects and exhaust (and expand) my skill in the game as a player and builder. This is certainly dangerous, but fortune favors the bold (and what not).
I do not think the cards I've recommended are dangerous to me (suicidal); as we've talked about before folks will often flippantly say, "oh well, just play around it" or "build around it" and I think my knowledge of the game is deep enough that typically I can do this; however, where it grows dangerous is for inclusion of newer players. In the same vein, but along a different line, these cards are pretty much like gladiator camp for Magic, they force players to actively seek deeper understanding of the game and develop counter actions to these effects and look many turns down the road (game) to find often non-apparent means to victory--in effect they make the players themselves better at the game. So while I think there is associated risk, the course's rewards, in a lot of ways, make up for a few match losses--they equate to more evolved thinking in the players of the games and in appreciation of the game's intricacies.
Sorry if my use of hyperbole (monkey-crap) sounded overly cavalier, but this rather longer diatribe is how I was thinking about the game and its players.
take it easy all, KB
PS: another possible tactic for new player inclusion is to get rid of the door prize and offer up the same prize to the least expensive deck, understanding that this would likely go to RDWs (unless they play R Port or something silly like that) as a nod to the expense of some of the cards in the format. But I don't think the cards on the list of possible unbans are the most expensive in the format (actually because most have been banned or restricted in many formats, they're fairly cheap), I think that winner goes to the manabases of 3-4 color decks...which, as a new player to modo about 5-6 years ago, was a hearty beating to the wallet, and a somewhat unsatisfying one, because lands aren't all that cool, but they are the economy of the game (unless you're on dredge--live the dream ). And frankly, if I ever win my prizes can go to a newer player tinkering on a deck (don't know if this is possible or if the CardMarket gets an auto reply/email on results, but I'm sure it's doable), because I play this format for fun, not for prizes, and also agree that I'd hate to see a quality player with quality ideas that is limited due to card resources or otherwise.
I see the debate is raging for the banned and unbanned list; linked here: 100CS EXPO Matches ; is a video series that includes three separate deck's matches, BW Eldrazi Prison, Abzan Aggro, and Alluren Elf Ball. Hope you enjoy them and they cool your heels in the heated race to out pace the ban hammer
Here is a link to some additional 100 CS games: 100 CS Expo Games #8
And, if you like, some Commander games as well: Commander Videos
Enjoy
--KB
I've been in the tank a bit, talking with Stsung, about magic theory and concepts, don't think either of us have found the mystical Fountain of Youth, although I'm sure we'll both play the role of Ponce de Leon or Asuza, to stay on flavor, and keep seeking. One of the concepts that we've spoken about at length is tempo theory. And, at the end of the day, how we even define tempo is something that is a bit opaque in nature. Denotatively, at least in the definition relevant to this article and not pertaining to music (which is only a specific application of the same idea anyway), this term applies to rate, rhythm, or pattern. In this case, I'd apply it to rate, but all of these describe the same general idea which is periodicity, whether that is governed by a fixed rate (it rarely is in MTG) or variable. Periodicity or rate, is not a measure per se of speed, in the denotative it measures the occurrence of an event or thing as it is presented over time. For example, a deck like legacy or vintage storm, or insert X combo deck here, may win extremely fast, turn 1 kills are a thing, but they are rarely based around the concept of tempo, the only time they ever make a play that could be considered a tempo impacting play is the turn they cast their card that wins. If anything, then these decks are actually exemplars of negative tempo in exchange for investment, because as a lot of players will banally note, "they don't play a real game of magic", and I would proffer that the reason this opinion exists is because these decks function completely outside of the realm of tempo (interaction in the non-virtual sense, ie discard etc), although I tend to think it's a vague statement that overlays a much simpler concept, again: tempo.
I propose that tempo as it applies to this game, is a measure of one of two things: 1. Direct progression of the boardstate toward victory, presenting threats, or in casting a card or using mana for an effect that directly applies toward winning the game 2. Direct impact on denying the opponent the ability to do the same. Anything outside of these two things does not impact tempo. I think the most elegant definition is likely: The rate at which cards and mana are spent to directly impact the outcome of victory.
You will often see a card like man'o'war be heralded as a great tempo card and you can see why through application of the definition above: this card presents a fair body at 2/2 for 3 mana but it essentially has mana short written on it after it has resolved, if the opponent has invested in a relevant creature threat that it can target. Although, this example is quite simple and most people, whether they have thought through why man'o'war accrues them tempo, know that it does. But objectively speaking it does so at a great exchange rate and impacts both sides of the tempo coin by presenting a threat that directly impacts the player of said card's ability to win and denies the opponent the same capability. You'll also hear player's say "I timewalked him/her" in plenty of formats where the card isn't legal and in effect what they're saying is I've exchanged favorably a full turns worth of draw and untap with the opponent; obviously man'o'war is only half of this equation, the opponent will still be up on cards, but they've taken a turn off to get solely a draw and land drop.
This may be overstatement of an obvious thing to some, but I think where understanding of tempo tends to break down for players is in the less obvious plays or card selection, where I believe many players accrue incremental (extremely subtle) tempo loss over the course of games.
I believe the number one cause of negative tempo accruement comes from player's choosing value over tempo. Value is a whole separate concept, but I tend to think in the context of this game, it can be summed up in contrast to tempo.
Tempo: "What's up, I'm tempo, I'll give you this right now and you have today and only today to take it" vs.
Value: "Goodday Sir, I'm value, can I interest you in investing now to reap dividends later for your 401K or kid's college saving fund".
Yeah sure one's a greasy car salesman, but you're driving off the lot today and getting where you need to go, and if you play your cards (pun intended) right, then there may be no need for a tomorrow. While value will pay in the long game, if the long game can be relegated to moot, then, well, it is moot.
I think there's a special sort of art that goes into balancing the two and some of it comes down to a science of knowing the relevant cards that can be presented by the opponent and how they pair against your own, but the largest part comes down to a sense of where in time and space the game lies to determine momentum, and either making the determination to swing for the fences like Casey (beatdown) or hang back and keep the game at your speed (control). And a lot has been written about who's the beat down and who's the control (Mike Flores), but realistically that's not the complete point here, both beatdown and control impact tempo, because both seek to impact directly the outcome of the game whether that be through active means or denial. Value does neither, which is its weakness that many people fail to account for.
So what do value cards look like: value cards are cantrips, they are tutors, they're comes into play tapped dual, scry, or manlands, they're shrine of burning rage and sulfuric vortex
I'm not saying anyone should play without value in mind, value is great and it is necessary, but just as much as understanding the role you should assume in the game for aggro vs. control, is understanding when value should and must be eschewed to effect tempo and the opposite. When do you choose one over the other? I think this comes down to intuition (a solid grasp of the hidden information at stake and how that could affect you), knowledge of the card pool, as well as understanding of your opponent.
I don't think there's an equation to determine when to take the value line of play or when to take the tempo line, there's too many variables at stake and often you're making these decisions with several unknowns; however, I wanted to offer this game write up to enlighten or at least display what I consider to be solid play that may not be apparently obvious, but was decided upon by me as a player as a result of the tempo definition and theory the way I see it:
I am playing a Death and Taxes 100 CS singleton deck, my opponent is on what I assume to a 3-4 color midrange value deck, which I assume I am not favored against. My deck is not 100% assured to be the beat down at all times in this match, but I go into the game assuming that I will be the beat down, until a point at which I'm likely losing. I also know that I will need to progress my strategy which is aggressive, rapidly through efficient use of my mana to present threats, while simultaneously assessing his possible holdings and accruing value where I do not take loss of tempo which is the basis of my strategy. The below report is of a game two after winning my previous game against the opponent, we both begin with 7 cards in hand and the opponent chooses to put me on the draw (positive tempo for him, positive value for me [and vice versa, generally throughout]). My keep consists of the following: 2x plains, 1x Weathered Wayfarer, 1x Steelshaper's Gift, 1x Mirran Crusader, 1x Figure of Destiny, and 1x Porcelain Legionnaire. This hand is actually quite value or investment heavy for this deck (wayfarer and gift), but I opt to keep based upon the power of a T1 wayfarer on the draw, allowing a fetch for wasteland to generate both value and in the belief that his lands were far more relevant than mine over the course of the game (generating virtual tempo, influencing the course of a game many turns later).
Game:
He plays a turn 1 treetop village (negative tempo, high value) and passes it back to me. I draw a plains for the turn and cast my weathered wayfarer as expected and pass it back (positive tempo, although very little it's a 1/1 for 1 mana, positive value I've invested in card that will accrue me value, he must now deal with it or allow me the dividends). On turn 2, the opponent plays a wooded foothills sacrificing it to find a tropical island, he then casts a preordain (negative tempo, high value) and then passes it back to me. I draw a windbrisk heights for the turn, and use my plains to fetch with wayfarer for wasteland, then use the wasteland to destroy his tropical island (measured as an even or slight loss of tempo, for now, but positive value, I've draw a card for one mana and activation of an effect that would have otherwise attacked for 1 damage). I pass it back and on turn 3 the opponent plays a krosan verge (negative tempo, but positive value, this card is a 2 for 1, but not right now and not for free later). The opponent passes it back and we draw Accorder Paladin for the turn, we again opt to fetch with our wayfarer this time getting a karakas, we then use the karakas to play out our Figure of Destiny (even to slight loss of tempo, while we've not played our most relevant threat the accorder or the legionnaire, we have still made a play that can present a sizable threat to a midrange deck down the road, gain in value, we've drawn a free land card: karakas that has the upside of impacting either our tempo (in the active role against his threats presented and where applicable) or more virtual value in the defensive role of returning our own legends, if we find any, back to hand against removal (card advantage)). We pass it back and on T4 the opponent plays a polluted delta and passes (at this point if he fetches an untapped land, he can activate the krosan verge). We draw a Gideon's Lawkeeper for the turn, and assess that we need to begin aggression against the opponent, who we are not currently pressuring highly, and use our mana to present threats that he must deal with: we eschew another wayfarer activation and main 1 cast our Mirran Crusader, to allow him the mistake of countering this card and not fetching for two lands with the krosan verge, but this is also dual purpose play, we also know he cannot block "for free" (nothing is free) our figure of destiny if he chooses to counter, he allows it to resolve (increase in tempo, we've presented a sizeable threat that has landed on the board, no value). We attack in, while tapped out, with our figure of destiny, he opts to activate his treetop village and block and kill our figure of destiny "for free" (loss in tempo for us, gain in tempo for him, but loss of value from being unable to cash in on his investment in krosan verge on our turn; and I assess a gain in virtual tempo for us, based upon our holdings, we can present two threats easily on the following turn and the effect of not getting the two lands will be worse by our estimate than losing a 1/1 that will stay a 1/1 for a while. Frankly, and because of this, I also don't care to invest in the Figure of Destiny, my mana will be too tied up going wider to combat what I assume are larger creature's he'll be playing). We do intend on keeping the wayfarer to allow flexibility the following turn (value play); we are at this point at land parity; if he can play an additional land, we intend on still presenting at least one threat (legionnaire), but enabling us to fetch for tectonic edge to hit the most applicable land (virtual value down the road (1 turn) and virtual tempo much further down the road (2 turns), but overall use of wayfarer for tutoring is immediately a value play). After passing it back, on T5 the opponent misses his land drop, but plays a morph creature (I assume it to be den protector in these colors) (positive tempo, no change in value now, but virtual value gained if he can commit 2 mana more into his initial investment). He passes it back and we draw Hero of Bladehold for the turn, we play a plains from hand and attack in with the Mirran Crusader for 4 damage, he does not opt to block. We then cast our Hero of Bladehold, which gets countered by Force of Will, pitching a Reflector Mage (positive tempo for the opponent, but all things are relative we've currently got the upper hand on board, and a large value drop in the expenditure of two cards for one). We pass it back not having substantially altered the board state, on T6 the opponent draws a Steam Vents and plays it out untapped (negative tempo for him as his life total is not an irrelevant resource) and plays a True Name Nemesis (positive tempo, no change in current value, but a virtual value loss in being unable to activate the morphed den protector or the krosan verge). The opponent attacks with his morph which goes unblocked (positive tempo, no change in value). The opponent passes the turn and we draw a Thalia, heretic cathar for the turn, play out our windbrisk heights (negative tempo, but high value, and we don't need the mana this turn) and put a Sword of Fire and Ice under it; we then cast our Thalia and pass the turn (positive tempo overall we've presented a sizeable threat that will accrue virtual tempo throughout the game, even if we've eschewed playing a land that does not come into play untapped; high value, we have a two mana investment to get a high power card (SoFI) into play on the following turn, by doing something the deck needs to be doing anyway--attacking). We pass it back and on T6 the opponent plays a bayou that comes into play tapped due to Thalia (virtual tempo having a real tempo effect, in a way the commodity you're investing in with a card like thalia is tempo, but she presents a threat in and of herself, ie an actual tempo play as well, more to follow on this idea though). The opponent passes it back with no attacks, at this point his life total is 9, ours is 18, we draw brave the elements for the turn, we cast it, choosing blue, and attack for the fences (high tempo, low value play we've spent a card to trade for damage, but we also expect that he may have to make unfavorable blocks to stay alive, so virtual value accrued), he blocks with the morphed den protector against the Weathered Wayfarer and we get in for 7 damage off of Thalia and Mirran Crusader. Following the attack step we activate our wind brisk heights to get our SoFI (high value play, low tempo), it get's mana leaked (low tempo use of a card to generate a loss of value now for us and denial of tempo on the next turn for us), we then cast our steel shaper's gift finding Sword of Feast and Famine (low tempo, high value/investment) and use our last mana to play out a Gideon's Lawkeeper (which here is a tempo play, as it presents a 1/1 threat, but also accrues a whole boat of virtual tempo down the road due to being able to deal with threats costing many times it's mana exchange rate and the overhead cost of the card itself, value). The opponent unmorphs his den protector at endstep getting back preordain (all value play, virtual in what that card will do next turn and real in that he just got a card back for "free"). On the opponents turn 8, he casts preordain, and plays a savannah and passes it back. We draw a plains for the turn, and decide that we need to go wider than the opponent play out our legionnaire and our accorder paladin, eschewing the investment of the Sword of Feast and Famine and enabling us to use Gideons Lawkeeper on his endstep to tap his den protector and any other flash critter he can play before we pass the turn (with an active thalia, critters played on his turn will be tapped--virtual tempo); this turn is all tempo with no investment/value; we are preparing the team to swing for the fences (this is the continuous strategy in general of white weenie based decks, but as you've read we did not always make tempo based plays throughout this write up/game, we've balanced both, that is why I refrain from describing this deck as white weenie and label it D&T and it is the fundamental difference between both decks). We pass it back at this point, the opponent finally activates his krosan verge played 5 turns ago (positive value, but you can't take it with you to the grave) fetching a dryad arbor (blocker) and another land. We pass it and he plays nothing of relevance, we tap his den protector during his endstep and then tap the arbor during our main 1, and then we swing in for the win. This game can also be watched in my previous video of the Christmas matches played yesterday and I think it's actually a very interactive game on many levels not all of which are obvious or apparent in their importance or impact on the game.
I hope you do not assume I mean to eschew value, you can't, you shouldn't and you need not, but it needs to be in balance with tempo. These two things, tempo and value/investment, are what drives the aggro and control role decision cycle, but I'd proffer more so they are the driving theory behind the game, the meta-game (sic), more so than card advantage, curve theory, etc, because all of these things come as a need to assuage one of these two fundamental ideas to drive a game toward the desired endstate by both players. I look at them as a devil (of course that would be tempo) and an angel (yep of course it is) both competing for my soul and I have to madly dance while appeasing both with equanimity and in proportion to my soul's (gamestate in the real and the possible) current state. That's about it, sorry if that's a lot of crap to say something that I think is relatively simple, but I think it's so simple that it often get's ignored and sometimes to player's detriment. I'd also be curious if anyone has a creative way to model this idea theoretically as it would be interesting to see if math/gaming theory generate a non-linear diff eq. that could generate the answers to this given all of the variables and permutations involved with in it.
Anyway, that's about it, hope if it's not enlightening, it's at least interesting and fun to read.
Take it easy all, and I'll throw up a few matches later.
--KB
PS-Forgot to answer my more to follow in regards to Thalia or rather cards that can play a role as both a tempo and investment cards, and it's quite simple: they're the most busted cards in the game. For example ever wonder why planes walkers are so great (+tempo/+value), eternal witness, snapcaster mage, etc. I think you get the idea, but cards that enable positive growth in both tempo and value simultaneously and in a real/non-virtual sense are the best cards in the game and I tend to think this theory helps to explain why. That's to say, I think it's silly for me to tell you that snapcaster is good, but if you apply this theory to say draft or any format, it helps as an assessment/evaluation tool, and while it may not be everyday that you get cards that do both simultaneously and at the point of their resolution, there's a lot of cards that impact one upon resolution and gain or accrue virtual advantage in the other.
Another funny thing about both the concepts of value and tempo is that they drive fundamental human desires for respectively cognitive superiority (ego) and gratification (id), both things in their base are emotional and beyond reason, but hey maybe that's why we come back for more
P.S.S. After a few hours of thinking about it the use of virtual tempo or value (accrual of either commodity over assumed gamestate at a later point) is likely not the correct lexicon. I think in many ways both are highly mutable and can change from one to another, based upon outcome of endstate, in a lot of cases the component I call virtual tempo, is in fact value being actualized from earlier tempo, which I think is a more elegant model to frame this perspective and theory of game play but is slightly more difficult to establish distinguishability between both over a long enough time horizon, therefore the use of "virtual" as a term to describe the effect. In a lot of ways these both are yin and yang, and while they are different, they do overlap continuously and if the proper decisions are made (and of course you need to get lucky) then in harmony as well.
Merry Christmas to all
Stsung,
Based upon our conversation(s) had a chance to import your decklist from yesterday; a few lines of thinking I had:
I understand the theme of the deck being very low in critter count, but I'd be curious to take out the restoration angel (the 4 spot is already pretty heavy anyway and outside of an ambusher you're not likely to recur many ETBs so it's a lower synergy card) and try torrential gearhulk. The benefit of this is a higher upside ambusher that can also be fetched by mystical teachings like the angel, but with your instant count this thing could be bonkers in the deck and I think give a more potent play over the angel albeit less efficient, but your 4 slot is pretty heavy already so I don't think the mana will be left fallow.
I tend to like cards like oust and condemn in decks like this but could understand if you'd chose to forgo them in an effort to maximize your ability to deal with non-critter effects or spells and get rid of the clowns with sweepers. These may even be slightly better than path to exile in some cases as they do not give your opponent card advantage, obviously objectively they are not, because one is not instant speed and the other is conditional, but in this build I can see a home because you don't give a darn about life total as long as you're alive and you likely expect to be the defender for quite sometime until your opponent is ground out.
I think I'd consider a tithe package as well as a weathered wayfarer add. I don't think they're auto includes in any white deck, but it's close, and both just grind out so much card advantage one for nominal to no tempo loss and the other for a bit more tempo loss (wayfarer, but you can always do it on their endstep, etc). If you wanted to get real spicy I could see land tax as well (maybe look at parfait options with scroll rack, but this might be too cute, depending upon fluctuation of hand size from empirical testing), but then you're looking at a mox diamond add and likely a daze, deprive package, which further enables it but would accrue you tempo loss in getting to the 4 spot. So this is a bit more questionable, but not totally in left field. These all likely come out in games where you know you'll be put on the play, but the flexibility of wayfarer I think makes it worthwhile (although it possibly opens up further negative tempo but high power land cards like maze of ith, tolaria west but even now allows a find on wasteland/tech, colonnade, and karakas all of which can be pretty darned good in a lot of places)
I also tend to like stifle; I never thought this card was great in this format, but it can stop so many broken things and can often just be a secondary wasteland; I've stifled transmutes, fetch lands, PW ultimates, hermit druid activations, shrine of burning rage death, other's wastelands, etc and the card has rarely been dead for me although it seems unassuming it tends to be pretty great in most matchups for the rate of one mana. Sorry to go on and on about the card, I know you know it very well, but I elaborate for anyone that might be less familiar with it.
I also think a curious, but possibly good or at least testable option in the 3 CMC slot could be ashiok, nightmare weaver. This fellow, is innocuously good, and although he doesn't protect himself, per se, as a T3 play, with a +2 ability, he tends to at a minimum live to turn 4 when you are likely to sweep the board. I think if he stays in play post wrath your chance of randomly winning off of him are fairly high, or at least it can buy you a bunch of time as the opponent figures out how to deal with him before he finds X. I wasn't sold on him initially because he doesn't pass the typical PW test, but he's pretty deece, played with him a bit and in a primarily critter based meta, I think he's a good place to be. The argument against this card is it's definitely not a come from behind card whatsoever, but with the level of manipulation that deck runs my guess is you're very rarely playing "off the top ropes" as I like to say.
I think there's a possible debate over venser, shaper savant in this deck; he's a great card, but I think a scalable effect similar to this one that this deck could benefit from is cyclonic rift. It will never present a 2/2 ambusher, but it can either get rid of a specific problem threat that you could not deal with earlier in the game, but have found an answer for in your permission package and it does this 2 turns earlier than venser, or it can just send it all back to hand later down the road for a whole slew of time in a format lacking P9 level mana support.
Sorry, earlier when we were talking about it, I looked through the deck list, but for me to truly conceptualize something I have to see it tend to be a visual human, so I imported the list and kind of perused it to see if I had any thoughts on it.
Very lovely and potent build and well played. So, I hope the comments don't come off as disparaging, I assure you they're not, I'm just going through the process we spoke about recently of understanding how a thing, in this case your deck, objectively works (finding the path) how it may work better (and below, for the rub ins :P, how it can be stopped or at least slow its roll a bit, and it's a new card to boot
P.S. Michelle tell me Sanctum Prelate isn't a board card, I wish I'd gotten to use the little fellow he'd have done some work if I ever resolved him (and that might be a big if
Take it easy.
--KB
Yeah, I sometimes forget to turn the sounds off when I'm playing, if I continue making them I probably need to invest in a headset too, I'm not a quite person, but I probably sound as such due to using the computer's external speakers etc, to capture my voice from about 3-4 feet. I'll do my best to remember the modo sounds next time and appreciate the input on the production. Happy New Years all.
--KB
Crucible is likely too slow as well but worth a nod, as running a singleton of this in the deck can give some extra miles against STAX in eternal. But, again, probably too slow and definately not trink mage in eternal, where the card shines in the bomberman archetype, which is not mtgo playable (time), but definitely is IRL.
--KB
Congratulations to Stsung for her victory today, and I wish I could have put you to the D&T test :). Awesome to see so many more folks joining in for the slaughter. Unfortunately, my live recording was botched due to failure to inspect the viewable frame of my monitor recording; many apologies, I've attached a recording here of the replays from my matches with D&T, but obviously lost the remainder of the matches that I jumped into as a watcher, commentator. However, and I'm sorry in advance, I want to give Frycek a big shout out for teaching Michelle the Price of Progress
Here are the D&T matches I played out: White Christmas
Bonus D&T match and Storm Match: Storm Match
Enjoy and look forward to bringing in the new year with you all
--KB
In the spirit of the holidays I made a live recording of two commander matches for fun and to test my computer's ability to record live play. The matches aren't that great we end up stomping our opponents, but it's the Gifts Ungiven that we remember, Enjoy and Happy Holidays! Videos are here: ThraxBreaksFaces
--KB
Best Holiday wishes to all. The following link shows some playtesting between myself and SugarDaddy of Wizardry as well as two casual matches with Tikhon and Stsung: EXPO Matches #5.
Enjoy!
--KB
Ran into Stsung, which is sort of like finding a unicorn, or something :), we played out some fun matches between a Jeskai Twin Deck I'm working on and my Death and Taxes/White Weenie build against her version of Blue Moon and played some good games out. The matches are linked here: EXPO Matches (vs Stsung) .
Enjoy!
--KB
Here's a new video installment of my Vs. Series against Michelle Wong; this time Jeskai Planeswalkers take on Enchantess and Blue Moon takes on RDW: EXPO Matches 3 . Enjoy and sorry for waxing poetic on RDW's!
--KB
Yeah I am quite the Timmy, but I vacillate between many modes, I enjoy winning as well, but not in the same way that some do, for me it's mostly finding the best or most elegant path to that end-state (victory) as opposed to the winning itself.
I tend to disagree with you on the conversion of the door prize, I don't play in other PRE's habitually like I do in the CSM, but I have tried most of them once. In the Gatherling vintage PRE, they typically award their 1 x excess tik to a budget build, and players bring decent budget decks to that format (they don't often win though, because, and let's be honest, the most busted cards are generally the most expensive for a reason (until they're restricted or banned aka hermit druid, bloodbraid elf
In regards to the issue of voting ratios, I think simple majority should be required for a ban or unban; as much I harp on putting more cards in the game (I'd hate to see any leave as well), I also think the format is quite lovely the way it stands now and while I would like a long list of cards to "get in there", their exclusion doesn't hinder the fun I have playing the game, plus we wouldn't be having this conversation if a few folks hadn't decided to keep this format alive.
Think that answers the mail on all
I agree the body on prelate falls pretty short in the 3 drop as far as relevant body size
So, at the end of the day, I don't think prelate is a powerhouse, but I think it has a place at the table in the SB for the control matchup and I think despite it's less than stellar stats, it will earn it's place at the right time and place.
Take it easy
--KB
Random side note about the "treasure chest" card releases on MTGO:
I think RDW got a strong pull in the Grenzo, Havoc Raiser; this card is a fine beater at RR for a 2/2; the ability to force a midrange opponent to attack can be crucial as it will tend to force their T3-4 plays which are typically defensive in nature while they build up to a thragtusk or batterskull on turn 5. Additionally, this little fellow gives RDW something that it generally has in short supply: a form of card advantage. At the two spot there are very few RDW cards that can replicate this effect a few being Young Pyromancer ; Fire//Ice ; and Abbot of Keral Keep; the fact that the card also fixes (you may use colorless mana to cast spells off the top of the opponent's deck, is also a large boon. In the mirror I assume this card will be a breaker or will have to be dealt with very rapidly (which is also a breaker because the opponent is down on tempo and card resources that would have ideally gone to face). I think this guy definitely has a home in 100CS RDW's build of all types and what he brings to the table is likely stronger than a cards like Kargan Dragonlord (this one is more close), Slith Firewalker , or Stigma Lasher .
Also, I think if you're a fan of the White Weenie or Death and Taxes Archetype another more unsuspecting card that I think deserves a strong SB consideration is Sanctum Prelate . If you've had the chance to watch my deck tech and match play of my D&T build, you'll find that I highly value "wrath-proof" or disruptive cards in this sort of horizontal or curve based rush strategy (often times one turn is all you need to close out on either midrange or control). This card is essentially a chalice of the void for 3 mana that blanks out the most relevant wraths (outside of toxic deluge), in the format (it takes care of Wrath of God , Supreme Verdict, Damnation, Mutilate, Massacre, Moat , and Humility , get's a bunch of really relevant PW's as well). The fact that it comes with a 2/2 body is great as well, but really what you're looking to use this card for, I think, is as a 3 mana timewalk, that allows you to hit for the fences with the clown brigade to pull the curtains on the opposition when all you need is one more turn. I think this is a strong SB card against the control archetype as these builds tend to run their largest card advantage cards FoF, *** effects, and PW's at 4, if they are unable to get a *** off on T4, they're likely going to lose. I think this unsuspecting little card is a powerhouse in this matchup; he's not so hot against midrange as the body is small and while you might mise a natural order or a birthing pod, chances are they came out a turn earlier than this fellow can hit the board.
Obviously the singular power of Leovold has already been displayed as the card is now in a vintage "fish" deck and Recruiter of the Guard has obvious implications for kiki-jiki combo decks that would be served well by an additional "imperial recruiter" to find the needed pieces of the combo.
Thought I'd share my assessments of some of the less obvious good cards and hope it was worth while, hope to see some of these new gems in the format.
Take care
--KB
Sorry didn't notice your query before--So, as a matter of course, I enjoy playing highly complicated and challenging games, games where, if I make one misstep I am rewarded with irrevocable results and a loss. I enjoy combo play, sometimes it just gets you and there is not a better line that could have taken into account the other permutations of the game state that would have allowed you to avoid it, or better use an opposing combo players momentum against them to win the game--So essentially I enjoy high risk, high reward games that involve powerful cards and effects and exhaust (and expand) my skill in the game as a player and builder. This is certainly dangerous, but fortune favors the bold (and what not).
I do not think the cards I've recommended are dangerous to me (suicidal); as we've talked about before folks will often flippantly say, "oh well, just play around it" or "build around it" and I think my knowledge of the game is deep enough that typically I can do this; however, where it grows dangerous is for inclusion of newer players. In the same vein, but along a different line, these cards are pretty much like gladiator camp for Magic, they force players to actively seek deeper understanding of the game and develop counter actions to these effects and look many turns down the road (game) to find often non-apparent means to victory--in effect they make the players themselves better at the game. So while I think there is associated risk, the course's rewards, in a lot of ways, make up for a few match losses--they equate to more evolved thinking in the players of the games and in appreciation of the game's intricacies.
Sorry if my use of hyperbole (monkey-crap) sounded overly cavalier, but this rather longer diatribe is how I was thinking about the game and its players.
take it easy all, KB
PS: another possible tactic for new player inclusion is to get rid of the door prize and offer up the same prize to the least expensive deck, understanding that this would likely go to RDWs (unless they play R Port or something silly like that) as a nod to the expense of some of the cards in the format. But I don't think the cards on the list of possible unbans are the most expensive in the format (actually because most have been banned or restricted in many formats, they're fairly cheap), I think that winner goes to the manabases of 3-4 color decks...which, as a new player to modo about 5-6 years ago, was a hearty beating to the wallet, and a somewhat unsatisfying one, because lands aren't all that cool, but they are the economy of the game (unless you're on dredge--live the dream
I see the debate is raging for the banned and unbanned list; linked here: 100CS EXPO Matches ; is a video series that includes three separate deck's matches, BW Eldrazi Prison, Abzan Aggro, and Alluren Elf Ball. Hope you enjoy them and they cool your heels in the heated race to out pace the ban hammer
Take it easy.
--KB