Some good suggestions there... What about Burn?
Storm?
There's a guy at my LGS that runs a Solemnity deck; if he gets all the pieces and his opponent has no disruption or removal, he can get turn 4 wins pretty regularly...
My main deck is GB Elves, but when I want to switch gears, I have had fun playing around with R/G Ponza
Archdruid on turn 2 isn't as great as it sounds. No heritage in hand is also no bueno. Just exploring alternative cards to make starting hands more consistent. And lead is probably the best turn 2 play.
On the play:
T1: Forest, Elf, Pass with 5 Cards in hand
T2: Draw up to 6, Forest Lead, 4 cards in hand
From here a couple of things can happen:
1. You can hit 0-3 creatures and have an equal or larger hand than you started the turn with,
2. You can hit 4-5 creatures which you would be forced to bottom or discard so you lose value on the lead
On the draw it's even worse.
But both scenarios only leave you with an Elvish Mystic on the board on turn 2 and generally you're going to want to be more explosive than that.
What about this scenario on the play:
T1: Forest, Nettle, Pass with 5 Cards in hand
T2: Draw up to 6, Forest, Nettle, Heritage, Tap all for 3G, Archdruid, Tap Nettles and Archdruid for 3G, Lead, attack for 3 with Nettle #1, Pass turn
Depending on how well you hit with Lead, you will end T2 with 10 power on the board and 1 - 6 cards in hand.
I admit it requires a rather magical Christmasland nut draw (I rarely get them IRL), but an explosive start that includes casting Lead T2 is possible...
Caller of the Claw is an elf, but that is about it. It won't help with Anger of the Gods because Anger exiles, and with other wipes it will just give you some 2/2 Bears that can't be pumped or regen'd by Ezuri, and don't work with Heritage or Archdruid to make mana.
Ok my mistake, but with damnation and wrath of god or pyroclasm will work. Let say you have 10 elfs, next turn you will have 10 2/2 bears ready to attack.
If I manage to get 10 elves on the board, I want to either win that turn, or have an answer in-hand in case my opponent attempts to wrath the board. For me, Caller doesn't fill that role.
I mean, if my opponent has enough creatures in play to keep my elves at bay, I don't see that the same number of 2/2 bears have any better chance of getting through.
If my opponent's board is sparse enough that some bears could get through, my elves should have already won the game.
At the moment, it doesn't really matter because Caller isn't legal, but even if does get reprinted,
Forge-tender, Selfless Spirit, and Tajuru Preserver all still seem like better options.
Caller of the Claw is an elf, but that is about it. It won't help with Anger of the Gods because Anger exiles, and with other wipes it will just give you some 2/2 Bears that can't be pumped or regen'd by Ezuri, and don't work with Heritage or Archdruid to make mana.
I play GB and will agree that the E-Tron match-up is challenging, but seems favorable. In my experience, the cards I want to see them play the least are All is Dust, Chalice, R Smasher, and Thought-Knot. With that in mind, I bring in a Tajuru Preserver, a Glissa, the Traitor, and 2 or 3 Thoughtseize. Rec Sage is already in my MB, and stays in for games 2 and 3.
Are you set on staying Abzan, or would you consider switching to GW or GB?
I ran an Abzan list for awhile also, but the mana base always felt too clunky and painful. About a year ago I switched to GB and have been much more satisfied with the deck since.
The mana is just so much smoother, especially when side boarding in games 2 and 3.
What is your meta like? More details there would help guide recommendations.
Any budget restrictions?
Thinking of running this list this weekend for FNM and/or Game Day to try satisfy my desire to play two of my current favorite cards: Metallurgic Summonings and Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
I think the mana base still needs work. I originally had 2x Aether Hub in the Evolving Wilds slot, but Evolving Wilds seems better because it can fetch a basic and turn on Revolt for Fatal Push. Thinking of also trying to work one or two Concealed Courtyards into the mix, but not sure what to cut. Suggestions?
@kpal and @the_falsehate - Thanks for the comments. I made a couple changes and took this list to Game Day:
Ended up going 2-2; good enough for 7th out of 12 players. Lost 0-1-1 to Mono-U Control, beat a GB Counters homebrew 2-0, lost 1-2 to Temur Marvel(?), and beat GB Delerium 2-1.
First time out with the deck, so sideboarding was a struggle. Contraband Kingpincan block for days and combines great with Tezzeret the Schemer, but I never thought to actually side them in. Flaying Tendrilswas in the main because I expected to face at least one Zombie deck. I will probably move both copies to the side and move Never // Return to the main. May cut Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for a second copy of Dispossess to fight Aetherworks Marvel decks.
Thinking of running this list this weekend for FNM and/or Game Day to try satisfy my desire to play two of my current favorite cards: Metallurgic Summonings and Sorin, Grim Nemesis.
I think the mana base still needs work. I originally had 2x Aether Hub in the Evolving Wilds slot, but Evolving Wilds seems better because it can fetch a basic and turn on Revolt for Fatal Push. Thinking of also trying to work one or two Concealed Courtyards into the mix, but not sure what to cut. Suggestions?
I know that the most played version is the G/B one but how about a "G/W Elves" going all in on Westvale Abbey and including Duskwatch Recruiter as well ?
My take:
If I have enough of a board presence to generate enough mana to cast or Chord for Ulamog or Emrakul, I would rather Chord for and/or overrun Ezuri 2x or 3x to pump my team. Swinging in with 2 or 3 (or more) trampling elves buffed to 7/7 or 10/10 seems better.
Westvale Abbey has been debated in this forum before. The idea of a 9/7 flying, indestructible, lifelinking threat is tempting, but the more I consider the card, the more it feels like a trap. Having to pay 5 mana and sac 5 elves feels completely opposite of what Elves try to do - go wide. If Ezuri is on the board, that same 5 mana can pump those 5 elves for 15 points of trampling damage.
Duskwatch Recruiter was in a couple GB lists from Japan a few months back. The mini CoCo ability is cool, but it doesn't get pumped by Archdruid or Ezuri, and doesn't count as a mana source with either Heritage Druid or Archdruid, so I am not sure it fits in the list.
I hope these comments come across as constructive and not too critical. If you have the cards, build your list and play it. Let us know how it does. I think non-standard lists like yours are helpful for getting us Elves players to look at the deck from different angles, consider different strategies, and validate current ones.
After all, all of us here have the same goal of making the best Elves list possible.
Although after reading Ryan's excellent article, I may swap Nykthos for Mutavault. Cool tech!
My next chance to try it out will be the 23rd. Any comments or suggestions in the meantime are welcome. Thanks to all, and Elf on!
Yeah, it would be great to get some data on the one of Mutavault. There is just this slot for a utility land, and Nykthos, shrine to nyx just doesn't impress me enough. I didn't mention it in my article, but another good one is westvale abbey. I was sent a private message with a list that had that instead of Nykthos, and I think some modern decks just cannot beat the card! It's also good sweeper protection!
I ran Westvale Abbey in an earlier GB build. It was fun and spicy, and raised a few eyebrows whenever I dropped it on the table, but I never was able to flip it.
Never thought of it as sweeper protection, though. That's a great point (and just one more reason I appreciate this forum)! I may have to give it another shot.
I got a question for you guys. I've been playing in my LGS regularly for quite some time now and I've been having sideboard problems. We only have 10-man pods regularly with a maximum of around 14-16 players and most of them changes their decks regularly. What do you recommend I do with my sideboard, keep it wide so I can have a few cards to put in G2/G3 to better my match-up or keep it "hateful" against some of my weaker match-ups? I'm playing different variants every week to test what I like the most so SB colors are not a problem.
This sounds a lot like the situation at my LGS.
My thought is: If your LGS meta changes every week, and you are making changes to your deck every week, it seems like it will be hard to know what changes are effective and what changes are not. Maybe try sticking with the same list for a few outings and see how it does. That may make it easier to identify what changes really are needed or worth making.
My issue is lack of opportunities to play and gain experience. My LGS has a Modern event maybe once a month, so it is difficult to get enough reps with my deck to get a sense for what works and what doesn't, and what are problems caused my own poor play.
As such, the input and feedback on this forum is fantastic. I have found it extremely valuable in learning how to play the deck better, and play Magic better in general.
My local meta seems rather fluid. I can count on seeing Affinity and Burn, but otherwise it is a mixed bag every time. As a result, after trying GB for a bit, I think I have finally settled an Abzan Chord toolbox list for the foreseeable future to try be prepared for as many match-ups as possible:
I recently came in to the world of competitive magic and have always liked elves. I decided to build an elf deck that I thought would be competitive. I recently came across this forum and was overwhelmed by how many pages there are on this subject! Needless to say, I haven't read them all... But here is what I came up with:
Sorry for the long post, I'm not sure how to link all the stuff like in previous posts. This is my first post... Still learning the ways.
Welcome to the Elf Train! I have been on elves for about the last year and really enjoy it.
One comment regarding your SB; I would highly recommend adding a Chameleon Colossus. It does major work against Jund and other decks that run a lot of black removal. And being 4 toughness puts it out of range of most red removal as well.
Also, Elvish Champion is great against most any other decks that run green, except for Infect. An unblockable Glistener Elf is not fun.
Long time no see friends. Haven't been playing much modern - bit too swept up playing Standard. It doesn't look like we've really moved anywhere in the past two months or so, but I've hit a major matchup problem in Dredge. Matchup feels borderline unwinnable barring them never hitting a Conflagrate, anyone got any tech for this one for us classic GB players? Yixild Jailer is nice, but Conflagrate is the key card here.
Storm?
There's a guy at my LGS that runs a Solemnity deck; if he gets all the pieces and his opponent has no disruption or removal, he can get turn 4 wins pretty regularly...
My main deck is GB Elves, but when I want to switch gears, I have had fun playing around with R/G Ponza
What about this scenario on the play:
T1: Forest, Nettle, Pass with 5 Cards in hand
T2: Draw up to 6, Forest, Nettle, Heritage, Tap all for 3G, Archdruid, Tap Nettles and Archdruid for 3G, Lead, attack for 3 with Nettle #1, Pass turn
Depending on how well you hit with Lead, you will end T2 with 10 power on the board and 1 - 6 cards in hand.
I admit it requires a rather magical Christmasland nut draw (I rarely get them IRL), but an explosive start that includes casting Lead T2 is possible...
If I manage to get 10 elves on the board, I want to either win that turn, or have an answer in-hand in case my opponent attempts to wrath the board. For me, Caller doesn't fill that role.
I mean, if my opponent has enough creatures in play to keep my elves at bay, I don't see that the same number of 2/2 bears have any better chance of getting through.
If my opponent's board is sparse enough that some bears could get through, my elves should have already won the game.
At the moment, it doesn't really matter because Caller isn't legal, but even if does get reprinted,
Forge-tender, Selfless Spirit, and Tajuru Preserver all still seem like better options.
Are you set on staying Abzan, or would you consider switching to GW or GB?
I ran an Abzan list for awhile also, but the mana base always felt too clunky and painful. About a year ago I switched to GB and have been much more satisfied with the deck since.
The mana is just so much smoother, especially when side boarding in games 2 and 3.
What is your meta like? More details there would help guide recommendations.
Any budget restrictions?
@kpal and @the_falsehate - Thanks for the comments. I made a couple changes and took this list to Game Day:
4 Censor
2 Disallow
1 Horribly Awry
2 Spell Shrivel
2 Void Shatter
(7) Draw Spells
2 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illuminations
4 Pull From Tomorrow
(11) Removal
1 Engulf the Shore
4 Fatal Push
2 Flaying Tendrils
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Unsubstantiate
4 Metallurgic Summonings
1 Torrential Gearhulk
(26) Lands
2 Blighted Fen
4 Choked Estuary
7 Island
1 Port Town
1 Prairie Stream
4 Sunken Hollow
7 Swamp
2 Never // Return
2 Engulf the Shore
2 Contraband Kingpin
3 Negate
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Dispossess
1 Tezzeret the Schemer
Ended up going 2-2; good enough for 7th out of 12 players. Lost 0-1-1 to Mono-U Control, beat a GB Counters homebrew 2-0, lost 1-2 to Temur Marvel(?), and beat GB Delerium 2-1.
First time out with the deck, so sideboarding was a struggle. Contraband Kingpincan block for days and combines great with Tezzeret the Schemer, but I never thought to actually side them in. Flaying Tendrilswas in the main because I expected to face at least one Zombie deck. I will probably move both copies to the side and move Never // Return to the main. May cut Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet for a second copy of Dispossess to fight Aetherworks Marvel decks.
4 Censor
2 Disallow
1 Horribly Awry
1 Spell Shrivel
3 Void Shatter
(7) Draw Spells
2 Glimmer of Genius
1 Hieroglyphic Illuminations
4 Pull From Tomorrow
(10) Removal
3 Fatal Push
3 Flaying Tendrils
3 Grasp of Darkness
1 Unsubstantiate
4 Metallurgic Summonings
2 Sorin, Grim Nemesis
(26) Lands
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Blighted Fen
3 Choked Estuary
7 Island
1 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
4 Sunken Hollow
6 Swamp
2 Ruinous Path
2 Engulf the Shore
2 Contraband Kingpin
3 Negate
2 Sphinx of the Final Word
1 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Dispossess
1 Tezzeret the Schemer
I think the mana base still needs work. I originally had 2x Aether Hub in the Evolving Wilds slot, but Evolving Wilds seems better because it can fetch a basic and turn on Revolt for Fatal Push. Thinking of also trying to work one or two Concealed Courtyards into the mix, but not sure what to cut. Suggestions?
The highlights:
Mythics: Snapcaster Mage
Temporal Mastery
Rares: 5x Fetchlands (one of each)
Blood Moon
Stony Silence
Uncommons: 1x Flickerwisp
1x Serum Visions
1x IoK
1x Might of Old Krosa
1x Terminate
Foils: 1x Spell Pierce
1x Death's Shadow
No Goyfs or Lily's, and only two mythics, but my luck with opening sealed product is usually pretty poor, so I was reasonably satisfied with this.
My take:
If I have enough of a board presence to generate enough mana to cast or Chord for Ulamog or Emrakul, I would rather Chord for and/or overrun Ezuri 2x or 3x to pump my team. Swinging in with 2 or 3 (or more) trampling elves buffed to 7/7 or 10/10 seems better.
Westvale Abbey has been debated in this forum before. The idea of a 9/7 flying, indestructible, lifelinking threat is tempting, but the more I consider the card, the more it feels like a trap. Having to pay 5 mana and sac 5 elves feels completely opposite of what Elves try to do - go wide. If Ezuri is on the board, that same 5 mana can pump those 5 elves for 15 points of trampling damage.
Duskwatch Recruiter was in a couple GB lists from Japan a few months back. The mini CoCo ability is cool, but it doesn't get pumped by Archdruid or Ezuri, and doesn't count as a mana source with either Heritage Druid or Archdruid, so I am not sure it fits in the list.
I hope these comments come across as constructive and not too critical. If you have the cards, build your list and play it. Let us know how it does. I think non-standard lists like yours are helpful for getting us Elves players to look at the deck from different angles, consider different strategies, and validate current ones.
After all, all of us here have the same goal of making the best Elves list possible.
I ran Westvale Abbey in an earlier GB build. It was fun and spicy, and raised a few eyebrows whenever I dropped it on the table, but I never was able to flip it.
Never thought of it as sweeper protection, though. That's a great point (and just one more reason I appreciate this forum)! I may have to give it another shot.
This sounds a lot like the situation at my LGS.
My thought is: If your LGS meta changes every week, and you are making changes to your deck every week, it seems like it will be hard to know what changes are effective and what changes are not. Maybe try sticking with the same list for a few outings and see how it does. That may make it easier to identify what changes really are needed or worth making.
My issue is lack of opportunities to play and gain experience. My LGS has a Modern event maybe once a month, so it is difficult to get enough reps with my deck to get a sense for what works and what doesn't, and what are problems caused my own poor play.
As such, the input and feedback on this forum is fantastic. I have found it extremely valuable in learning how to play the deck better, and play Magic better in general.
My local meta seems rather fluid. I can count on seeing Affinity and Burn, but otherwise it is a mixed bag every time. As a result, after trying GB for a bit, I think I have finally settled an Abzan Chord toolbox list for the foreseeable future to try be prepared for as many match-ups as possible:
4 Elvish Mystic
4 Essence Warden
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Dwynen's Elite
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Spellskite
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ezuri, Renegade Leader
3 Shaman of the Pack
1 Reclamation Sage
4 Chord of Calling
4 Collected Company
Lands (18)
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
4 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1 Pendhaven
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Temple Garden
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Burrenton Forge Tender
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Elvish Champion
2 Fracturing Gust
1 Kataki, War's Wage
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Mark of Asylum
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Although after reading Ryan's excellent article, I may swap Nykthos for Mutavault. Cool tech!
My next chance to try it out will be the 23rd. Any comments or suggestions in the meantime are welcome. Thanks to all, and Elf on!
Welcome to the Elf Train! I have been on elves for about the last year and really enjoy it.
One comment regarding your SB; I would highly recommend adding a Chameleon Colossus. It does major work against Jund and other decks that run a lot of black removal. And being 4 toughness puts it out of range of most red removal as well.
Also, Elvish Champion is great against most any other decks that run green, except for Infect. An unblockable Glistener Elf is not fun.
What about Stain the Mind, Surgical Extraction, or Lost Legacy?