Hello, I am currently trying to build a Tasigur, the Golden Fang reanimator deck that wins using Eldritch Evolution into Razaketh, the Foulblooded and from there wins with the scepter reversal combo. I am trying to streamline the deck down to mostly just a UB manabase (there will of course need to be a few green sources), but I am wondering how many (reasonably competitive) ways there are to generate several green mana in one turn without many green sources. If there aren't, are there any effects like eldritch evolution outside of green (or I may just have to deal with entomb > animate dead). Thanks!
If you want a very interactive control deck, my favorites are Toshiro Umezawa (30 black removal spells and some support), and Dragonlord Ojutai (easy to build with control and voltron).
The rules for color identity is that you can only have cards within your commanders color identity, it doesn't force you to play any colors (ruling for that would be weird). You can play mono black Rat Colony with Najeela, the blade-blossom if you want to, albeit a terrible plan.
I think that excessive tutors can make the game less fun for everyone, but only really when it gets to 7-8 tutors in a dedicated combo deck, but at that point my problem is that it is a dedicated combo deck. Tutors themselves are rarely the problem for me, I just have a problem with all out combo decks and when people tutor for 2 card combos with their commander (i.e. Mycosynth Lattice[/card] and Sydri, Galvanic Genius lets you blow up all your opponents' lands). I play a Chainer, Dementia Master deck, and while the best thing for me to tutor up is almost always Gray Merchant of Asphodel (to pair with Chainer and a sac outlet to loop for tons of drain) I found that it wasn't very fun for me to be tutoring that up every game ASAP, so I don't (I try to often tutor Cabal Coffers, which isn't going to win you the game on it's own but does help enable the deck). I do however still play some tutors in that deck, as I need several ways to ensure drawing my main wincon in the late-game.
I was playing Mairsil, the Pretender and had Tree of Perdition, Quicksilver Elemental, and Aetherling caged. The mono black player played a boardwipe, so I tap out of blue mana to put the flicker ability of aetherling and tree's ability on the stack. My friend playing an Animar, soul of elements morph deck flipped Jeering Instigator gaining control of my Mairsil, activated the tree ability, setting me to four, and then let the boardwipe resolve, killing me with the mono black player's Blood Artist.
Blade of Selves is amazing. (granted I play it in Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder) It is somewhat mana intensive, but I would play it in any deck with the etb creatures to support it. Also, ask yourself, "Is it more fun to play Panharmonicon and get double triggers, or get 2 free copies of my biggest dudes?"
He turns innocent (ish) little dudes like Fleshbag Marauder and his 2 copies into repeatable stax effects. Chainer and any version of fleshbag creates a brutal lock that few decks can out-value or out-aggro.
The other biggest reason to play him is Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Kokusho the evening star, as you combine one of them with chainer and a sac outlet and drain the table for (prefferably all of) their life.
Addressing your listed cons:
You say he's easily killed, and that is totally true, but with the ability being an instant you are ensured to get some value off of it.
His 5 cmc is higher than many generals, but it doesn't really matter because you won't be playing him out very fast anyways. The way his (non-stax) decks work is by spending the early game getting creatures on the field/into the yard and setting up a sac outlet before you play him.
3 black is not hard to generate for the ability, it's mono black... You do end up pouring quite a bit of mana into reanimating the same creature over and over (be it a Rune-scarred Demon or Fleshbag Marauder), but the mana isn't a problem because it's mono black. This is the dominion of Crypt Ghasts and Cabal Coffers (there are at least 6 playable mana doublers). The biggest downside of the ability is actually the cost in life. 3 life per go seems mostly irrelevant, but it adds up fast. If you do only 7-8 reanimations in the game it ends up costing over half your life, so you need to win by then.
Looking for help with a Lavaz deck I want to build. Budget is around $1 per card. Main idea is to play a few (10-12) mill and wheel effects to fill up mine and everyone else's yards, then play reanimation to bring the best creatures back as mine. If Lavaz's around, I get an extra copy of the best creature, and can them reanimate it for 2 copies. It's important that I am playing some good reanimation targets myself, and that my reanimation is versatile in who's graveyard it can hit so it's not too dependant on my opponents' decks, but can still benefit from them.
I don't know how the wipes will work out, so any feedback on those is appreciated. It just seems I need something to do against that annoying Animorphs (animar and morphs) deck in my meta, as well as other aggro/creature-based strategies.
I am NOT willing to go all in on mill or wheel synergies, I just find that boring. I do how ever love wheels and mill is a great way to stock graveyards. Since mill is not my win condition, I should probably cut it, as all it does is stock graveyards. I tried to only include higher impact, repeatable mill, but I should still probably just cut it for more removal and card draw.
Any feedback and suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!
I have been considering an ultra budget Yidris saboteur deck (my friends' decks that I play against most are Animorphs (Animar, soul of elements morphs), Yahenni value creatures and wipes, the new wizard commander, and Ghave). THe main idea is to help my creatures connect for combat damage to players while getting powerful effects off of them. This helps with Yidris while not relying on him.
Sorry for the screwy categories. THis list has 24 creatures, 34 lands, 16 artifacts, 10 enchantments, and 15 instants/sorceries.
Average CMC is 2.94, and the curve is 1 @ 0 cmc 5 @ 1 cmc 21 @ 2 cmc 19 @ 3 cmc 13 @ 4 cmc 7 @ 5 cmc.
I'm not sure how well the deck can draw cards in an actual game, and my low curve with Aqueous Form and artful dodge type effects is probably too low, and my creature count should probably go higher.
I've never played so many Shadowmage Infiltrator type cards, so I don't know how the curve and draw suite should be tailored. I am currently considering several wheel effects in the list with no synergies besides the ability to vomit out my hand with a low curve and lots of ramp, so those might have to go in favor of more conventional draw.
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Seems like he would be more of a control deck, but has the upside of still being able to run a panoply of counterspells. I was searching around a bit and found that Polymorph synergies can be built with him, while being less boring and repetitive than Jalira.
Baral, Chief of COmpliance - He would go in a very similar deck to Talrand, and the cheapening effect on a 2-drop commander is amazing, but he isn't his own win-condition. I could stand building this with a polymorph package, but I want a more repetitive and harder-to-disrupt win condition without running boring staple ones (i.e. Rites of Replication)
Sygg, River Cutthroat - I like this guy, but all he provides is card advantage, and you have to run some unblockable effects/creatures that won't synergize with the rest of the deck unless you go all in on the sabateur themes ("deal combat damage to a player" triggers), which there are better commanders for.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest - As summurized by Impossible, He's just "Play a bunch of stupid Flying Men and then sit on counter magic for the rest of the game with a constantly full hand." This isn't a bad strategy, but as far as I'm concerned it's boring as hell and un-creative.
Brago, King Eternal - I like Brago, I think a deck built around him would be able to keep down threats well and maintain card advantage. It can also be incredibly cheap (I mean $15-$20 with the staples I already own), so I could just throw it together sometime. My only big problem is that the deck is quite dependent on him, and it doesn't seem there are many ways to build him creatively.
Taigam, Ojutai Master - I just hate this guy. I can't stand Jeleva-style decks that just copy big splashy blue spells, and this guy has no built-in evasion to ensure his survival through combat.
Gashnaw, I have no idea what that's supposed to say... I'm guessing your phone's autocorrect got in the way of your message...
Breya, Etherium Shaper - She is an amazing artifact and/or combo commander, I'd just prefer building Sidri, Galvanic Genius, as I am currently in the process of trying to force my self to play at least one deck that at least pretends to be creature based
Other ones I found on the web:
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - He has built in hexproof and doesn't need any support to at least be somewhat functional. He works well with wheels (I've always wanted to build a deck full of wheels that isn't all discard/draw synergies), which leads me to think that a reanimation deck isn't too far from viable. Run 10-12 wheel and mill effects total, 10-12 reanimation effects (that fetch from your yard or opponents'), and then fill the rest in with ETB creatures from my midrange Toshiro Umezawa reanimator deck. Seems a bit convoluted, but you get to reanimate/copy both your opponents' creatures and yours, while Lazav himself fits perfectly in without being essential to the deck function. (I do currently play both Toshiro and Chainer, Dementia Master reanimator decks though, so I probably won't build this too soon.)
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - This guy is not normally built as a tempo commander, but anosou came up with this awesome Yidris deck themed around creatures dealing combat damage to players, which both synergizes with Yidris while not requiring him. Downside is no counterspells, but it could be fun (and I don't like my current Yidris deck).
Anyone know any good tempo commanders? To extrapolate on that, what I am really looking for is a commander that can be built with lots of cheap-to-cast counterspells to stall the game after getting down some threats (and use wheel effects to refill the hand). I don't really mind if the deck is more control than tempo, but I do want a list that can fling a plethora of cheap counterspells at opposing threats. Also I don't want to spend too much, but I'm sure I can find a budget way to build just about any deck.
Commanders I'm currently considering are Ojutai Voltron and Talrand. I think Ojutai would have to be a bit slower, although he is a very resilient beater when given vigilance. Talrand might be what I want, but I don't know much about how he actually pans out, and am a little worried that he will fold to board wipes too easily.
Vampiric Rites is often a better version of Infernal Tribute (Granted it doesn't work on non-creatures, but it's still cheaper), so you should add it to the list.
Thanks for the feedback! What I meant by the draw question I was thinking more along the lines of instant draw spells that are only good if you get the trigger off of Toshiro (e.g. Aphotic Wisps). Basically my question boils down to whether or not you normally end up with enough extra Toshiro triggers to get value from them?
Also on that note would you run any sorcery-speed draw effects. I know that Promise of Power is powerful enough card draw to warrant a slot in many lists, but aside from that would you consider running effects like Night's Whisper and Read the Bones, or do you normally end up with enough extra triggers to reliably recur cantrips into think twices?
1 Ichor Wellspring
1 Necrogen Spellbomb
1 Dispeller's Capsule
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Clock of Omens
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Dreamstone Hedron
1 Liquimetal Coating
1 Orzhov Signet
1 Caltrops
1 Bident of Thassa
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Trading Post
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Tamiyo's Journal
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Ugin's Nexus
1 Salvaging Station
1 Staff of Nin
1 Hedron Archive
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Mind's Eye
1 Aetherflux Reservoir
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Dross Scorpion
1 Etherium Sculptor
1 Trinket Mage
1 Treasure Mage
1 Trophy Mage
1 Raff Capashen, Ship's Mage
1 Voltaic Construct
1 Pentavus
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Chief Engineer
1 Junk Diver
1 Foundry Inspector
1 Triskelion
1 Hanna, Ship's Navigator
1 Scrap Trawler
1 Soul of New Phyrexia
Instants
1 Stoic Rebuttal
1 Arcane Denial
1 Mortify
1 Reality Shift
1 Oblation
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Whir of Invention
1 Counterspell
Enchantments
1 The Antiquities War
1 Phyrexian Scriptures
1 Diabolic Tutor
1 End Hostilities
1 One with the Machine
1 Thoughtcast
1 Sublime Exhalation
1 Rout
1 Open the Vaults
1 Merciless Eviction
1 Decree of Pain
Lands
13 Island
6 Plains
5 Swamp
1 Vivid Creek
1 Vivid Meadow
1 Azorius Chancery
1 Orzhov Basilica
1 Vivid Marsh
1 Esper Panorama
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Arcane Sanctum
1 Temple of the False God
1 Command Tower
1 Glacial Fortress
Combos are as follows:
Sydri + Salvaging Station + Dross Scorpion + Aether Spellbomb/Necrogen Spellbomb + Gilded Lotus/Dreamstone Hedron = Infinite mana, draw, bounce, discard, and untaps (hint: you win)
Dross Scorpion + Pentavus + mana rock that taps for 3 - infinite mana
Sydri + Dross Scorpion + Liquimetal Coating = : destroy target land
Infinite Mana/Untaps + Sydri + Liquimetal Coating - Destroy everyone else's lands.
Infinite Mana/Untaps + Staff of Nin/Trading Post + Spine of Ish Sah - Exile every thing you don't like.
Sydri + Voltaic Construct + mana rock that taps for 3 - infinite mana
Any help and suggestions are appreciated
What you probably want is a graveyard deck, like Karador, Ghost Chieftain (who was mentioned prior), or one of my personal favorites, Chainer Dementia Master. Lavaz, Dimir Mastermind also comes to mind, although I haven't built him yet so I can't vouch for his prowess.
My Pros:
He turns innocent (ish) little dudes like Fleshbag Marauder and his 2 copies into repeatable stax effects. Chainer and any version of fleshbag creates a brutal lock that few decks can out-value or out-aggro.
The other biggest reason to play him is Gray Merchant of Asphodel and Kokusho the evening star, as you combine one of them with chainer and a sac outlet and drain the table for (prefferably all of) their life.
Addressing your listed cons:
You say he's easily killed, and that is totally true, but with the ability being an instant you are ensured to get some value off of it.
His 5 cmc is higher than many generals, but it doesn't really matter because you won't be playing him out very fast anyways. The way his (non-stax) decks work is by spending the early game getting creatures on the field/into the yard and setting up a sac outlet before you play him.
3 black is not hard to generate for the ability, it's mono black... You do end up pouring quite a bit of mana into reanimating the same creature over and over (be it a Rune-scarred Demon or Fleshbag Marauder), but the mana isn't a problem because it's mono black. This is the dominion of Crypt Ghasts and Cabal Coffers (there are at least 6 playable mana doublers). The biggest downside of the ability is actually the cost in life. 3 life per go seems mostly irrelevant, but it adds up fast. If you do only 7-8 reanimations in the game it ends up costing over half your life, so you need to win by then.
For an amazing primer by jmdt, look here.
1 Avatar of Woe
1 Chainer, Dementia Master
1 Diluvian Primordial
1 Dimir Doppelganger
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Evil Twin
1 Forgotten Creation
1 Kagemaro, First to Suffer
1 Nighthowler
1 Notion Thief
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Sire of Stagnation
# Draw
1 Chart a Course
1 Compulsive Research
1 Deep Analysis
1 Dig Through Time
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Forbidden Alchemy
1 Monastery Siege
1 Strategic Planning
1 Treasure Cruise
# Lands
1 Choked Estuary
1 Command Tower
1 Dimir Aqueduct
1 Dimir Guildgate
1 Dismal Backwater
14x Island
1 Jwar Isle Refuge
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Submerged Boneyard
16x Swamp
1 Dreamborn Muse
1 Manic Scribe
1 Memory Erosion
1 Mindcrank
1 Psychic Corrosion
# Other
1 Grinning Totem
1 Lazav, Dimir Mastermind *CMDR*
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Memory Plunder
# Ramp
1 Charcoal Diamond
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Fellwar Stone
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
# Reanimation
1 Animate Dead
1 Ashen Powder
1 Body Double
1 Demon of Dark Schemes
1 Extract from Darkness
1 Fated Return
1 Makeshift Mannequin
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Rise from the Grave
1 Sepulchral Primordial
1 Stitch Together
1 Arcane Denial
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Dismember
1 Go for the Throat
1 Murderous Cut
1 Negate
1 Rapid Hybridization
1 Reality Shift
# Wheels
1 Ancient Excavation
1 Dark Deal
1 Jace's Archivist
1 Tolarian Winds
1 Whispering Madness
1 Windfall
# Wipes
1 Crux of Fate
1 Decree of Pain
1 Evacuation
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Whelming Wave
Average cmc is 3.84. for other stats check out my list on tappedout.
I don't know how the wipes will work out, so any feedback on those is appreciated. It just seems I need something to do against that annoying Animorphs (animar and morphs) deck in my meta, as well as other aggro/creature-based strategies.
I am NOT willing to go all in on mill or wheel synergies, I just find that boring. I do how ever love wheels and mill is a great way to stock graveyards. Since mill is not my win condition, I should probably cut it, as all it does is stock graveyards. I tried to only include higher impact, repeatable mill, but I should still probably just cut it for more removal and card draw.
Any feedback and suggestions are appreciated! Thanks!
1x Avenging Druid
1x Banshee of the Dread Choir
1x Broodbirth Viper
1x Caustic Wasps
1x Cold-Eyed Selkie
1x Dimir Cutpurse
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1x Eternal Witness
1x Glint-Eye Nephilim
1x Looter il-Kor
1x Marchesa's Infiltrator
1x Marchesa, the Black Rose
1x Master of Predicaments
1x Scroll Thief
1x Shadowmage Infiltrator
1x Shaman of the Great Hunt
1x Skullwinder
1x Stronghold Rats
1x Trygon Predator
1x Vedalken Heretic
1x Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder *CMDR*
Draw
1x Bident of Thassa
1x Brainstorm
1x Diminishing Returns
1x Mask of Memory
1x Wheel of Fate
1x Whispering Madness
1x Windfall
1x Fervor
1x Fires of Yavimaya
1x Hammer of Purphoros
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Temur Ascendancy
34 Lands
Other
1x Aetherflux Reservoir
1x Berserkers' Onslaught
1x Frantic Search
1x Larceny
1x Quietus Spike
1x Relentless Assault
Ramp
1x Dowsing Dagger
1x Farseek
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Golgari Signet
1x Gruul Signet
1x Izzet Signet
1x Rakdos Signet
1x Rampant Growth
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Simic Signet
1x Sol Ring
1x Decimate
1x Go for the Throat
1x Ingot Chewer
1x Reality Shift
1x Shriekmaw
Unblockable
1x Aqueous Form
1x Artful Dodge
1x Bedlam
1x Canopy Cover
1x Distortion Strike
1x Levitation
1x Mask of Riddles
1x Open Into Wonder
1x Wonder
Sorry for the screwy categories. THis list has 24 creatures, 34 lands, 16 artifacts, 10 enchantments, and 15 instants/sorceries.
Average CMC is 2.94, and the curve is 1 @ 0 cmc 5 @ 1 cmc 21 @ 2 cmc 19 @ 3 cmc 13 @ 4 cmc 7 @ 5 cmc.
I'm not sure how well the deck can draw cards in an actual game, and my low curve with Aqueous Form and artful dodge type effects is probably too low, and my creature count should probably go higher.
I've never played so many Shadowmage Infiltrator type cards, so I don't know how the curve and draw suite should be tailored. I am currently considering several wheel effects in the list with no synergies besides the ability to vomit out my hand with a low curve and lots of ramp, so those might have to go in favor of more conventional draw.
Any feedback/help is appreciated!
Talrand, Sky Summoner - Seems like he would be more of a control deck, but has the upside of still being able to run a panoply of counterspells. I was searching around a bit and found that Polymorph synergies can be built with him, while being less boring and repetitive than Jalira.
Baral, Chief of COmpliance - He would go in a very similar deck to Talrand, and the cheapening effect on a 2-drop commander is amazing, but he isn't his own win-condition. I could stand building this with a polymorph package, but I want a more repetitive and harder-to-disrupt win condition without running boring staple ones (i.e. Rites of Replication)
Sygg, River Cutthroat - I like this guy, but all he provides is card advantage, and you have to run some unblockable effects/creatures that won't synergize with the rest of the deck unless you go all in on the sabateur themes ("deal combat damage to a player" triggers), which there are better commanders for.
Edric, Spymaster of Trest - As summurized by Impossible, He's just "Play a bunch of stupid Flying Men and then sit on counter magic for the rest of the game with a constantly full hand." This isn't a bad strategy, but as far as I'm concerned it's boring as hell and un-creative.
Brago, King Eternal - I like Brago, I think a deck built around him would be able to keep down threats well and maintain card advantage. It can also be incredibly cheap (I mean $15-$20 with the staples I already own), so I could just throw it together sometime. My only big problem is that the deck is quite dependent on him, and it doesn't seem there are many ways to build him creatively.
Taigam, Ojutai Master - I just hate this guy. I can't stand Jeleva-style decks that just copy big splashy blue spells, and this guy has no built-in evasion to ensure his survival through combat.
Gashnaw, I have no idea what that's supposed to say... I'm guessing your phone's autocorrect got in the way of your message...
Breya, Etherium Shaper - She is an amazing artifact and/or combo commander, I'd just prefer building Sidri, Galvanic Genius, as I am currently in the process of trying to force my self to play at least one deck that at least pretends to be creature based
Other ones I found on the web:
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - He has built in hexproof and doesn't need any support to at least be somewhat functional. He works well with wheels (I've always wanted to build a deck full of wheels that isn't all discard/draw synergies), which leads me to think that a reanimation deck isn't too far from viable. Run 10-12 wheel and mill effects total, 10-12 reanimation effects (that fetch from your yard or opponents'), and then fill the rest in with ETB creatures from my midrange Toshiro Umezawa reanimator deck. Seems a bit convoluted, but you get to reanimate/copy both your opponents' creatures and yours, while Lazav himself fits perfectly in without being essential to the deck function. (I do currently play both Toshiro and Chainer, Dementia Master reanimator decks though, so I probably won't build this too soon.)
Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder - This guy is not normally built as a tempo commander, but anosou came up with this awesome Yidris deck themed around creatures dealing combat damage to players, which both synergizes with Yidris while not requiring him. Downside is no counterspells, but it could be fun (and I don't like my current Yidris deck).
Commanders I'm currently considering are Ojutai Voltron and Talrand. I think Ojutai would have to be a bit slower, although he is a very resilient beater when given vigilance. Talrand might be what I want, but I don't know much about how he actually pans out, and am a little worried that he will fold to board wipes too easily.
Thank you in advance for any responses!
Also on that note would you run any sorcery-speed draw effects. I know that Promise of Power is powerful enough card draw to warrant a slot in many lists, but aside from that would you consider running effects like Night's Whisper and Read the Bones, or do you normally end up with enough extra triggers to reliably recur cantrips into think twices?