Reading the linked thread, it seems that player didn't listen to any of the announcements over the weekend. Players were allowed to change decks between rounds but only from their starting card pool. Prizes and other cards are not allowed to be used. Hopefully someone will be able to explain it to them and perhaps get them to contact me for a better explanation.
Hahah... I knew it. Some bonehead 8 year old kid at the pre-release always makes that "mistake"... misinterpret very clearly announced rules in their own favor.
The judge specifically announces at the beginning that you can't add later boosters. They have at every pre-release I've ever been too, yet STILL some people do it, and no matter how they justify it, I'm 80% sure they know they're cheating, but just claim plausible deniability ( "Oh, but that's what they said we could do... I didn't know... blah blah." )
And i never said that I pulled all from the sealed Tourny pack! Read my post, think intelligently and try to understand that we can add cards we gain from our original two boosters and sealed Tourny pack and the boosters we gain. That way the final decks that play off against each other are more refined and make for better enjoyment for the others watching.
Actually that's simply called CHEATING. The pre-release format doesn't allow you to add from more boosters.
You can rechange your deck anytime you like at a pre-release, but you can't add cards from later boosters.
The fact that you misunderstood the clearly stated rules only makes you are a cheater who doesn't listen very well.
I had 3 Nameless Inversions in my sealed (with 2 boosters and 1 tourney pack), plus shriekmaw and Weed Strangle with a few black and white bombs, so I don't think 3 O rings or 3 N-inversions is out of the question... but 4 sounds wrong.
When I started looking at my cardpool at pre-release, I thought the deck was just OK...
but after I played it a few times, I realized it was pretty strong, because I kept winning easily, despite making a fair number of mistakes, I never lost a game, including winning multiple side games easily. My cardpool included:
Went 3-0 with this deck with 2-0 in each match, then ID'd. I made a few mistakes in play, but the mana played great except 1 game... I went down to 2 life with mana screw, then played out my hand, kill-kill-kill-kill... while stabilizing and put Purity, the Champion and multiple blockers on the board, and took them down from 20 -> 0, while gaining life.
Giant was often the MVP... the black kill was just ridiculous. Never had to evoke Shriekmaw, always played him for full cost. Footbottom Feast is an awesome card. Either use it to put a BOMB back in your hand... or two or three bombs... OR use it as a straight up cantrip and retrieve ZERO cards when you're desperate for land...
Also used the clash cards as filters when I'm land screwed. Sure it helps your opponent too, but when you're land screwed or threat screwed, an instant speed filter on your opponent's turn to toss that card that can't help you, can save your life (and it did).
Cairn Wanderer was frequently a flyer for me, and often a landwalker... first striker, double striker, lots of first strike, etc. Uses ALL graveyards...
Playing black white was a no brainer... I had absolutely junk in other colors, and really outside of these cards, there was nothing good in white or black...
I thought about splashing some for Doran the Seige Tower (and I had a tiny bit of beef in green, but really white and black looks broken to me).
I was not sure about the mana curve either. I've not played magic in a couple of years, and am really a casual player.
Brigid is absolutely awesome weenie killer, however i'm still deeply affected by a ruling from a Noob judge.. I blocked a 4/4 giant with Brigid, at the end of declare blockers step i tapped Brigid to deal 2 damage to all attacking creatures (the giant), and technically the giant should die from Brigid's first striking 2 damage right? ...but the judge ruled that Brigid will die too..(without much clear explanation). I just can't see why. Is there anyone who can verify that i was doing it properly?
Judge was wrong unless that giant was a first striker.
He declares attackers... you assign blockers, block the 4/4 with Brigid, then tap to deal 2 damage immediately (so anytime before main damage is dealt), deal 2 first strike damage (4 damage total), and the giant is DEAD from 4 damage before it can deal any damage at all to Brigid.
Sorry he gypped you. That sounds like flat incompetence. He needs to go back to judge school, because my 10 year old nephew can work that one out, it's not even a hard question. I could understand if it was some hard question about replacement effects, priority or something... but working out effects and first strike damage??? I hardly play anymore and I can figure THAT one out. That's garbage (judges at my event in Virginia were super, superfriendly helpful and polite, and seemed very competent. I know they generally do a great job, and I don't want to be too hard on your judge, but unless there's something you're not telling me, that question is a no-brainer)
Was it a Thudercloud Shaman? That's the only 4/4 Giant I remember.
Just to get an idea in my mind about Clash probabilities, I crunched the numbers for the clash situation using Bateleur's distribution as the model (seems like a reasonable base).
It turns out that with all things being equal (i.e. given two equivalent decks with the CCs as quoted before) you can expect to win about 3 out of every 8 Clashes. [or more precisely: (2*17+4*19+7*23+6*30+3*36+2*38)/40^2 = 599/1600 which is about 37% of the time]
On the other hand, if as hypothesized, you were to bump every single nonland castingcost up by 1 (again a pretty extreme example) it does in fact increase your Clash win percentage by about 8% to be about 45%. [specifically, the probability is now: (2*19+4*23+7*30+6*36+2*38+2*40)/40^2 = 89/200 = 44.5%]. So Batelaur's (and others) estimations appear to be right on the mark.
Bottomline for me: personally, I'll tend to lean away from considering Clash in my sealed decks (unless I get a card whose effect is solid and useful in my build without it's clash effect). It's primary use really seems to just be as a small library filter, but for that, I can just rely on my *opponent's* clash cards!
OK, I don't do big equations... (just lots of little ones, the only kind I can understand) so...
40 cards (% of cards) (% loss for that card)
Land: 17 (.425) (loses to 100% of cards)
1CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 57.5% of cards, i.e. loses to everything but land)
2CC: 4 (.10) (loses to 52.5% of cards, i.e. beats only land and 1CC)
3CC: 7 (.175) (loses to 42.5% of cards)
4CC: 6 (.15) (loses to 25% of cards)
5CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 10% of cards)
6CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 5% of cards)
LOSING CLASHES as percentage of total clashes:
.425 LOST because of you had land
.02875 LOST because you had 1CC and opponent had same or better.
.0525 LOST because you had 2CC and opponent had same or better.
.0743475 LOST because you had 3CC and opponent had same or better.
.0375 LOST because you had 4CC and opponent had same or better.
.005 LOST because you had 5CC and opponent had same or better.
.0025 LOST because you had 6CC and opponent had same or better.
.6255975 LOST.
.3744025 WON.
So 5:3 against winning, or exactly what you said. I just had to see for myself.
I think the "Champion" ability being in all colors is going play hell with pseudo removal enchantments in Blue, Green, and White. What's that? You just Glimmerdust Napped my creature? OK. I Champion him away for a bigger, better creature. Oh. You managed to actually kill my Champion? OK. I get my other creature back that you were worried about in the first place.
The Oblivion Ring seems to be the white enchantment pseudo-removal in the set and the one that I'd be playing. It's much better than traditional white pseudo removal, and removes any non-land permanent from the game though.
A Champion can't get rid of it because your creature is temporarily out of the game (though I realize you meant the traditional white "pseudo removal enchantment" that keeps them from using abilities or prevents A/B , but I didn't see anything like that in the prerelease. I think blue has some. I didn't see it in green either, but the only deck that lasted very long against me at prerelease was a broken green elf draft deck with all red removal )
Though of course if he Oblivion Rings your Champion, you do end up with a (janky) creature back at least.
Hi, new to this forum, but I just played the Lorwyn pre-release and wanted to share some thoughts. I opened a sealed deck with broken black and bombs in white, went 3-0, then Intentional drew the 4th... Then won my draft with a black-white draft deck that was considerably weaker than my sealed deck.
Warren Pilferers, 4B creature
3/3, return target creature card, gy to hand. If goblin, WP gets haste.
Cairn Wanderer 4B creature
changeling 4/4 - gets basic abilities of all creatures in all graveyards (flying, landwalk, double strike, fear, etc.)
Goldmeadow Harrier W
1/1, W - tap target creature.
Purity 3WWW creature
Elemental incarnation 6/6, flying, prevent direct damage, and convert to life gain. shuffle into deck if it dies.
Brigid, Heroe of Kinsbaile 2WW creature
Legend - Kithkin archer 2/3, first strick, tap -> deals 2 damage to ALL attacking OR blocking creatures target player controls.
Plover Knights, Hillcomber Giant, and Changeling Hero.
-
About the Pre-release strategies:
In limited, the Nameless Inversions are awesome, and as a common, instant for 1B, giving +3/-3 to any creature regardless of type it's just fantastic. The shriekmaws were absolute money and I think they'll be monsters in block, and possibly playable in standard if there's a deck that can use them... but not extended except in some combo deck. I was lucky to have one in both my decks.
Brigid was almost broken in limited. She can block and kill a 4 power toughness attacker without taking damage, and she can put 2 damage on ALL your opponent's attackers and defenders. Obviously a rare though.
Hillcomber Giant, a common, was my MVP multiple times, 3/3 mountain walker for 2WW... a landwalker that size for 4 is really nice.
Cairn Wanderer is fantastic in limited as well, but rare... as are all the elemental incarnations. This 4/4 always seemed to have flying, and had first strike maybe 1/3 of the time, and landwalk maybe 1/3 of the time when I played him. Occasionally had double strike and fear. With a black deck you're going to be killing and losing a lot of creatures before you get to 5 mana, so he generally gets evasion.
The library filtering effect of the clash always helped me. I agree with whoever said that don't play clash cards if they're not good without the clash.
Oblivion Ring is really nice in limited. And you can remove them with an oblivion ring... when you hit that one with a third oblivion ring, what happens?
Oh, and the White Elemental 6/6 incarnation effect overrides effect of the red elemental 6/6 incarnation, because the player taking the damage controls the order of the replacement effect, whatever the heck that means, the ref told me. Good to know if you're playing in today's pre-release.
I never played against or with a Planeswalker. Saw one, it's nice. Not sure how well they play, but I saw the black one in limited and it was definitely a gamebreaker late game.
I did open a foil Jace Beleren (blue planeswalker) in my 15 winning packs. I hope it's worth something, but probably not a lot. It's a lot like having a 1UU enchantment that says draw an extra card 2 turns, then both draw an extra card on 3rd turn, then draw extra card for 2 turns, then both draw an extra card on 3rd turn, repeat forever. Except that your opponent can kill it with 3 damage.
Hahah... I knew it. Some bonehead 8 year old kid at the pre-release always makes that "mistake"... misinterpret very clearly announced rules in their own favor.
The judge specifically announces at the beginning that you can't add later boosters. They have at every pre-release I've ever been too, yet STILL some people do it, and no matter how they justify it, I'm 80% sure they know they're cheating, but just claim plausible deniability ( "Oh, but that's what they said we could do... I didn't know... blah blah." )
Actually that's simply called CHEATING. The pre-release format doesn't allow you to add from more boosters.
You can rechange your deck anytime you like at a pre-release, but you can't add cards from later boosters.
The fact that you misunderstood the clearly stated rules only makes you are a cheater who doesn't listen very well.
I had 3 Nameless Inversions in my sealed (with 2 boosters and 1 tourney pack), plus shriekmaw and Weed Strangle with a few black and white bombs, so I don't think 3 O rings or 3 N-inversions is out of the question... but 4 sounds wrong.
but after I played it a few times, I realized it was pretty strong, because I kept winning easily, despite making a fair number of mistakes, I never lost a game, including winning multiple side games easily. My cardpool included:
I'm very out of practice, not having played live, in over 2 years, but this deck just played itself.
3x Nameless Inversion
1x Weed Strangle
1x Shriekmaw
1x Warren Pilferer
1x Marsh Flitter
1x Nectar Faerie
1x Marsh Flitter
1x Cairn Wanderer
1x Footbottom Feast
1x Dreamspoiler witches
1x Ghostly Changeling
1x Goldmeadow Harrier
1x Changeling Hero
1x Goldmeadow Dodger
1x Oaken Brawler
1x Surge of Thoughtweft
1x Plover Knights
1x Hillcomber Giant
1x Brigid, Hero of Kinsbaile
1x Purity
1x Cenn's Heir
1x Springleaf drum
Lands
8x Plains
7x Swamp
1x Vivid Marsh
Went 3-0 with this deck with 2-0 in each match, then ID'd. I made a few mistakes in play, but the mana played great except 1 game... I went down to 2 life with mana screw, then played out my hand, kill-kill-kill-kill... while stabilizing and put Purity, the Champion and multiple blockers on the board, and took them down from 20 -> 0, while gaining life.
Giant was often the MVP... the black kill was just ridiculous. Never had to evoke Shriekmaw, always played him for full cost. Footbottom Feast is an awesome card. Either use it to put a BOMB back in your hand... or two or three bombs... OR use it as a straight up cantrip and retrieve ZERO cards when you're desperate for land...
Also used the clash cards as filters when I'm land screwed. Sure it helps your opponent too, but when you're land screwed or threat screwed, an instant speed filter on your opponent's turn to toss that card that can't help you, can save your life (and it did).
Cairn Wanderer was frequently a flyer for me, and often a landwalker... first striker, double striker, lots of first strike, etc. Uses ALL graveyards...
Playing black white was a no brainer... I had absolutely junk in other colors, and really outside of these cards, there was nothing good in white or black...
I thought about splashing some for Doran the Seige Tower (and I had a tiny bit of beef in green, but really white and black looks broken to me).
I was not sure about the mana curve either. I've not played magic in a couple of years, and am really a casual player.
Judge was wrong unless that giant was a first striker.
He declares attackers... you assign blockers, block the 4/4 with Brigid, then tap to deal 2 damage immediately (so anytime before main damage is dealt), deal 2 first strike damage (4 damage total), and the giant is DEAD from 4 damage before it can deal any damage at all to Brigid.
Sorry he gypped you. That sounds like flat incompetence. He needs to go back to judge school, because my 10 year old nephew can work that one out, it's not even a hard question. I could understand if it was some hard question about replacement effects, priority or something... but working out effects and first strike damage??? I hardly play anymore and I can figure THAT one out. That's garbage (judges at my event in Virginia were super, superfriendly helpful and polite, and seemed very competent. I know they generally do a great job, and I don't want to be too hard on your judge, but unless there's something you're not telling me, that question is a no-brainer)
Was it a Thudercloud Shaman? That's the only 4/4 Giant I remember.
OK, I don't do big equations... (just lots of little ones, the only kind I can understand) so...
40 cards (% of cards) (% loss for that card)
Land: 17 (.425) (loses to 100% of cards)
1CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 57.5% of cards, i.e. loses to everything but land)
2CC: 4 (.10) (loses to 52.5% of cards, i.e. beats only land and 1CC)
3CC: 7 (.175) (loses to 42.5% of cards)
4CC: 6 (.15) (loses to 25% of cards)
5CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 10% of cards)
6CC: 2 (.05) (loses to 5% of cards)
LOSING CLASHES as percentage of total clashes:
.425 LOST because of you had land
.02875 LOST because you had 1CC and opponent had same or better.
.0525 LOST because you had 2CC and opponent had same or better.
.0743475 LOST because you had 3CC and opponent had same or better.
.0375 LOST because you had 4CC and opponent had same or better.
.005 LOST because you had 5CC and opponent had same or better.
.0025 LOST because you had 6CC and opponent had same or better.
.6255975 LOST.
.3744025 WON.
So 5:3 against winning, or exactly what you said. I just had to see for myself.
The Oblivion Ring seems to be the white enchantment pseudo-removal in the set and the one that I'd be playing. It's much better than traditional white pseudo removal, and removes any non-land permanent from the game though.
A Champion can't get rid of it because your creature is temporarily out of the game (though I realize you meant the traditional white "pseudo removal enchantment" that keeps them from using abilities or prevents A/B , but I didn't see anything like that in the prerelease. I think blue has some. I didn't see it in green either, but the only deck that lasted very long against me at prerelease was a broken green elf draft deck with all red removal )
Though of course if he Oblivion Rings your Champion, you do end up with a (janky) creature back at least.
Highlights of Sealed deck:
3 nameless inversions, Weedstrangle,
Shriekmaw 4B creature
3/2 fear, when cip, destroy target non-B, non-A creature, Evoke 1B
Warren Pilferers, 4B creature
3/3, return target creature card, gy to hand. If goblin, WP gets haste.
Cairn Wanderer 4B creature
changeling 4/4 - gets basic abilities of all creatures in all graveyards (flying, landwalk, double strike, fear, etc.)
Goldmeadow Harrier W
1/1, W - tap target creature.
Purity 3WWW creature
Elemental incarnation 6/6, flying, prevent direct damage, and convert to life gain. shuffle into deck if it dies.
Brigid, Heroe of Kinsbaile 2WW creature
Legend - Kithkin archer 2/3, first strick, tap -> deals 2 damage to ALL attacking OR blocking creatures target player controls.
Plover Knights, Hillcomber Giant, and Changeling Hero.
-
About the Pre-release strategies:
In limited, the Nameless Inversions are awesome, and as a common, instant for 1B, giving +3/-3 to any creature regardless of type it's just fantastic. The shriekmaws were absolute money and I think they'll be monsters in block, and possibly playable in standard if there's a deck that can use them... but not extended except in some combo deck. I was lucky to have one in both my decks.
Brigid was almost broken in limited. She can block and kill a 4 power toughness attacker without taking damage, and she can put 2 damage on ALL your opponent's attackers and defenders. Obviously a rare though.
Hillcomber Giant, a common, was my MVP multiple times, 3/3 mountain walker for 2WW... a landwalker that size for 4 is really nice.
Cairn Wanderer is fantastic in limited as well, but rare... as are all the elemental incarnations. This 4/4 always seemed to have flying, and had first strike maybe 1/3 of the time, and landwalk maybe 1/3 of the time when I played him. Occasionally had double strike and fear. With a black deck you're going to be killing and losing a lot of creatures before you get to 5 mana, so he generally gets evasion.
The library filtering effect of the clash always helped me. I agree with whoever said that don't play clash cards if they're not good without the clash.
Oblivion Ring is really nice in limited. And you can remove them with an oblivion ring... when you hit that one with a third oblivion ring, what happens?
Oh, and the White Elemental 6/6 incarnation effect overrides effect of the red elemental 6/6 incarnation, because the player taking the damage controls the order of the replacement effect, whatever the heck that means, the ref told me. Good to know if you're playing in today's pre-release.
I never played against or with a Planeswalker. Saw one, it's nice. Not sure how well they play, but I saw the black one in limited and it was definitely a gamebreaker late game.
I did open a foil Jace Beleren (blue planeswalker) in my 15 winning packs. I hope it's worth something, but probably not a lot. It's a lot like having a 1UU enchantment that says draw an extra card 2 turns, then both draw an extra card on 3rd turn, then draw extra card for 2 turns, then both draw an extra card on 3rd turn, repeat forever. Except that your opponent can kill it with 3 damage.