Not dead. If you look at MTGO results, there are 1-3 DnT decks that are placed on the 5-0 mark along with some unexpected decks like Ponza, Gruul Aggro and Golgari Evolution.
I've been trying to get into modern. I made dredge, and while I like that deck I prefer decks I can tweak and make my own -- Dredge doesn't allow this.
Can someone briefly pitch the pros and cons of running mono-white vs B/W death and taxes builds? I don't want to spend a ton on this deck (I mainly just need 2 aether vials now) are Stoneforges a must-include now?
Thanks in advance for your help and advice. I am excited to run this deck, I just want to be educated before I drop tons of money.
Edit: the general consensus seems to be begin with mono-white and go from there. Do you agree?
Definitely start with Mono W. Even if DnT is an aggro deck, it has a control feel to it with prison lines of play and soft-locking opponents. It has lots of tricks that you need to know how to effectively abuse the abilities of each permanent. Mono W is that launch pad to familiarize yourself with the deck. If you have grasped that feel, you can now splash a color to it (including C mana). However, splashing a color means that the play style changes, though prison style plays still remain.
I was expecting a John Wick/God of War-ish story, where Elspeth gets revenge on Heliod for "killing" her, and that on her path of revenge, she unleashes the Titans on Theros and Nykthos. I guess we're getting Phyrexians then. Don't get me wrong, I like the Phyrexians as much as the next guy but I think they would have been more flavorful if they invaded Kaladesh or some other steampunk/artifact themed plane.
I need some help with the sideboard because it looks so convoluted, and it feels like I'm just throwing cards in there.
The deck overall is great, though I have yet to test in an LGS. After playtesting it with my group, it's good against the current top decks but bad against decks fast decks like Burn, Spirits or Humans. Also bad against a Tron player who has prior info and plays Chalice for 0.
Are there any pros and cons between Cascade-Balance combo and Electro/As Foretold-Balance Combo? I have the cards for both but I haven't settled in on a specific combo.
Hmm, I like where you're going, but Marshal's triple white cost seems rough in a deck running that many colorless-producing-only lands. Even the double white in cards like Serra Avenger, Gideon, etc. could be hard. I do love myself some Kithkin, though, so I got happy at the Knight of Meadowgrain inclusion (and Figure of Destiny from the red list).
I've been in that situation, that's why if I can't hit the right colors, I'll have to cheat them in, thus vial and reshaper. Vial can help an early avenger or slam in a marshal if I can't cast it. Reshaper on the other hand, can either help with fixing lands or put in the creatures we can't cast.
Try using 2 Oath of Kaya, it also acts as sort of Lightning Helix and that it punishes players for attacking Gideon, with small Gideon and big Gideon in play, you could have a soft lock on the opponent.
I really like your list. I enjoy the aggro/D&T hybrid approach. Your more controlling creatures are still viable beaters (Militant, Thalia 1.0 & 2.0), especially when powered out on turn 1 with Spirit Guide. SB seems pretty stock for a mono white list.
There's also a W/Colorless build that I'm trying to construct as a way to cheat in creatures and other permanents to avoid counter spells and putting a "second wind" after a board wipe.
I really like your list. I enjoy the aggro/D&T hybrid approach. Your more controlling creatures are still viable beaters (Militant, Thalia 1.0 & 2.0), especially when powered out on turn 1 with Spirit Guide. SB seems pretty stock for a mono white list.
If I'm to upgrade the deck, I was thinking of speeding the clock with things aside from creatures so may be a Boros aggro list could be a thing.
Cards I'm considering for this deck: Chandra, Torch of Defiance SB card, good card advantage against control and midrange decks Figure of Destiny it really depends on the meta of the LGS, maybe as a two of in the MB Bygone Bishop more card advantage, but nonbo with Stony Silence. If Pia and Kiran Nalaar is in the deck, maybe I can find a slot in there. Pia and Kiran Nalaar more creature, means more fun. Hoses edict effects and opponents seem to use a one-for-one removal against a token. Abilities can be used if the clues generated by Thraben Inspector gets shut down by Stony Silence Stormbreath Dragon really situational but I really like the protection from white, flying and haste, maybe a SB card Tocatli Honor Guard modern has a lot of ETB effects especially Humans and Spirits, so if the LGS is very heavy on those, then one or both of these is an auto include KInjalli's Sunwing and Thalia, Heretic Cathar more of a tempo play since it denies our opponents with blockers and mana Honored Crop-Captain pump all day Lost Leonin I'm a big fan of "SURPRISE" cards as secret techs, whatever I can't turn down to 0 life, I'll just kill with infect Vexing Devil we want to kill faster, so the big devil here can help us get there Boros Charm all the modes are great. we can burn with the extra reach, tech kill with double strike or protect our creatures with board wipes
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I personally like taker more than chalice, though it's crazy hahaha; about the removal package, if you take a look at the staxes and taxes forum you'll see that a lot of people try declaration in stone and dismember. Chalice is very strong, although I like Taker hahaha
I forgot Declaration in Stone exists. I might try it, but wouldn't it be more detrimental on our part since it now has 3cmc with Thalia on the board? As far as my experience with the archetype goes, we wouldn't want to cast any removal spells that costs 3cmc or more, save for board wipes.
For everyone else here, has anyone tried tri-color DnT? The one without the Eldrazi package since "colorless" is technically a color when building mana bases.
I went 4-1 with this list in an LGS mini-tourney, beating Tron, two Burn lists and Bogles. It's a pure Mono W list with a bit of DnT in it to go toe to toe the meta. I got hosed by a well played Jeskai Control player who, IMO, knows how to play his removal efficiently, then again GG is GG.
So I spotted Martyr's Soul in the spoilers and thought of this deck, having a free 3/2 on turn two or a 5/4 turn three seems pretty solid although you would need to go particularly 1 drop heavy to really make it work to its potential.
This could work in a 1-drop heavy deck and/or token heavy deck. But you may be onto something there.
I created this deck since I'm getting bored of using my pet deck all the time and that the people at my LGS would come at me unprepared. It had good results in its first night finishing 3/1/0.
I don't think that Vial is that necessary for your deck. Playing Smasher and Vial at the same deck is really awkward. I guess you should replace vial with Chalice of the Void to worth the ramp. It should be a Thalia Stompy style deck, not quite death and taxes, imo
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
I have been using an Boros Eldrazi and Taxes build based from the Mono White Eldrazi and Taxes build of Tom Medvec which he used in SCG Classic Syracuse. I made some modifications so that it'll have more reach and removal with burn spells. I took this to 2 FNMs and had some great results. Favorable matchup against UW control, Burn and Phoenix decks and my losses were to Tron, the new Karn build. Any comments and recommendations would be highly appreciated.
Just wondering, is it possible to run this deck without any vials? Like replacing them with 4 more removal spells or hand disruption. I have a playset of the core of the B/W shell with some Tithe Takers but I only have two vials.
Not dead. If you look at MTGO results, there are 1-3 DnT decks that are placed on the 5-0 mark along with some unexpected decks like Ponza, Gruul Aggro and Golgari Evolution.
Definitely start with Mono W. Even if DnT is an aggro deck, it has a control feel to it with prison lines of play and soft-locking opponents. It has lots of tricks that you need to know how to effectively abuse the abilities of each permanent. Mono W is that launch pad to familiarize yourself with the deck. If you have grasped that feel, you can now splash a color to it (including C mana). However, splashing a color means that the play style changes, though prison style plays still remain.
3 Greater Gargadon
Enablers
4 Electrodominance
4 As Foretold
2 Collected Conjuring
1 Finale of Promise
Free Spells
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Crashing Footfalls
4 Restore Balance
Other Spells
4 Opt
2 Serum Visions
3 Mana Leak
2 Abrade
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Magmatic Sinkhole
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
4 Spirebluff Canal
2 Fiery Islet
3 Island
3 Mountain
2 Ashiok, Dream Render
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
3 Dragon's Claw
3 Anger of the Gods
1 Abrade
1 Negate
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Fry
I need some help with the sideboard because it looks so convoluted, and it feels like I'm just throwing cards in there.
The deck overall is great, though I have yet to test in an LGS. After playtesting it with my group, it's good against the current top decks but bad against decks fast decks like Burn, Spirits or Humans. Also bad against a Tron player who has prior info and plays Chalice for 0.
I've been in that situation, that's why if I can't hit the right colors, I'll have to cheat them in, thus vial and reshaper. Vial can help an early avenger or slam in a marshal if I can't cast it. Reshaper on the other hand, can either help with fixing lands or put in the creatures we can't cast.
There's also a W/Colorless build that I'm trying to construct as a way to cheat in creatures and other permanents to avoid counter spells and putting a "second wind" after a board wipe.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Serra Avenger
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Matter Reshaper
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Blade Splicer
4 Benalish Marshal
3 Eldrazi Displacer
Noncreature Spells
4 Path to Exile
4 Aether Vial
1 Always Watching
1 Gideon Blackblade
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Shefet Dunes
4 Horizon Canopy
2 Field of Ruin
1 Mutavault
7 Plains
1 Wastes
2 Tocatli Honor Guard
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
I tried to add Thought-Knot Seer and Reality Smasher but that would result in me cutting some crucial cards. Believe me I would love to play an indestructible eldrazi outside of Ulamog and Emrakul. If I can find a spot for these two, I could consider adding Baneslayer Angel, Lyra Dawnbringer or even Resplendent Angel
If I'm to upgrade the deck, I was thinking of speeding the clock with things aside from creatures so may be a Boros aggro list could be a thing.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Dryad Militant
4 Tithe Taker
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Boros Reckoner
4 Balefire Liege
Noncreature Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Path to Exile
3 Lightning Helix
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Arid Mesa
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Needle Spires
2 Field of Ruin
2 Plains
2 Mountain
2 Rest in Peace
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Stony Silence
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Wear // Tear
2 Alpine Moon
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Gideon Blackblade
Cards I'm considering for this deck:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance SB card, good card advantage against control and midrange decks
Figure of Destiny it really depends on the meta of the LGS, maybe as a two of in the MB
Bygone Bishop more card advantage, but nonbo with Stony Silence. If Pia and Kiran Nalaar is in the deck, maybe I can find a slot in there.
Pia and Kiran Nalaar more creature, means more fun. Hoses edict effects and opponents seem to use a one-for-one removal against a token. Abilities can be used if the clues generated by Thraben Inspector gets shut down by Stony Silence
Stormbreath Dragon really situational but I really like the protection from white, flying and haste, maybe a SB card
Tocatli Honor Guard modern has a lot of ETB effects especially Humans and Spirits, so if the LGS is very heavy on those, then one or both of these is an auto include
KInjalli's Sunwing and Thalia, Heretic Cathar more of a tempo play since it denies our opponents with blockers and mana
Honored Crop-Captain pump all day
Lost Leonin I'm a big fan of "SURPRISE" cards as secret techs, whatever I can't turn down to 0 life, I'll just kill with infect
Vexing Devil we want to kill faster, so the big devil here can help us get there
Boros Charm all the modes are great. we can burn with the extra reach, tech kill with double strike or protect our creatures with board wipes
I forgot Declaration in Stone exists. I might try it, but wouldn't it be more detrimental on our part since it now has 3cmc with Thalia on the board? As far as my experience with the archetype goes, we wouldn't want to cast any removal spells that costs 3cmc or more, save for board wipes.
For everyone else here, has anyone tried tri-color DnT? The one without the Eldrazi package since "colorless" is technically a color when building mana bases.
4 Dryad Militant
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Tocatli Honor Guard
4 Benalish Marshal
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Wilt-Leaf Liege
4 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
2 Gideon Blackblade
Lands
2 Shefet Dunes
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Windswept Heath
8 Plains
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Teyo, the Shield Mage
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetotic
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Disenchant
1 Leonin Relic-Warder
Im keeping Teyo in the sideboard until I get myself a couple of Leyline of Sanctity
This could work in a 1-drop heavy deck and/or token heavy deck. But you may be onto something there.
4 Dryad Militant
4 Thraben Inspector
3 Judge's Familiar
3 Knight of the White ORchid
4 Knight of Meadowgrain
4 Tocatli Honor Guard
4 Benalish Marshal
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
2 Gideon Blackblade
Enchantment
2 Honor of the Pure
Removal
4 Path to Exile
2 Dismember
Land
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Shefet Dunes
2 Field of Ruin
2 Mutavault
13 Plains
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
2 Aven Mindcensor
2 Kor Firewalker
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Leonin Relic-Warder
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Damping Sphere
You're right, I did remove Aether Vial but I didn't replace it with the Chalice of the Void since it's a nonbo with my removal package, and I like the removal package as of now because of the reach and the extra damage it pushes through. What I did was up Path to Exile to 4 and added 3 Tithe Taker. The slots Tithe Taker took were flexi slots, and I was stumped on what card to fill it with so I just went with Tithe Taker. What do you think?
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Leonin Arbiter
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Blade Splicer
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
4 Thought-knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
Noncreature Spells
3 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Aether Vial
Lands
4 Inspiring Vantage
4 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Needle Spires
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Wastes
1 Wear // Tear
1 Abrade
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Alpine Moon
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance