Thank you for the reply! I follow that entirely, and frankly I kinda wanted to pick up Opals eventually anyway. What do you use in place of the baubles though? Do you have a list I could see? It's good to hear that you feel like the deck is fast enough without them too
Hello! Somewhat of a long time lurker here popping in to ask for some advice. I've been following, and slowly acquiring many of the pieces for Tezzeret for a few months now, and I've run into a bit of a snag. Since the sort of "turbo package" was discovered the deck really seems to have some legs nowadays and its really garnered my interest. Unfortunately, while a pair of bridges are in my budget, 3-4 mox opals and a set of baubles simply aren't and that's a bit of a disappointment for me. It feels like I really won't be able to play the whir lists without running the pieces that give it it's explosiveness. Almost all the other pieces to the deck I have
So I guess I'm just in a bit of a bind as to what I should be doing. Are there alternative builds I should really be looking at? The whir lists seem far and away the most prevalent ones among the forums, and frankly it makes sense. The scrap trawler build I see floating around here also looks very appealing, and much easier for me to access, though it doesn't seem to grab nearly as much attention. So where should I head with this? Thank you for any and all advice, it's much appreciated!
Back again from more Tuesday modern... same list as last week. This time much better: 2-2! I gotta say when the deck works it does wonders.
Match 1: Naya Burn. Was a bit intimidated when I first saw this but Sun and Moon (I guess that's what people are calling it?) destroys that *****... clean 2-0. Guy was salty all night about it.
Match 2: Merfolk. Close match, took out blood moons after game 1 which I think was the right decision. Lost just barely 1-2. Turn Nahiri put it work game 2 and made an easy win, other games were a bit grindier. I think I could've won if I ghost quartered a mutavault instead of a cavern.
Match 3: Free win red. All the free win stuff... chalice, moon, magus of the moon, bridge, etc. Super slow. Lost 2-0... the only walkers that could interact successfully with him was Chandra and Ajani once bridge was down and I had very few answers to it even after sideboard. Very slow, super grindy, had a lot of laughs with the guy about it though
Match 4: UB Mill. Not much to say here, got a clean 2-0. He has few if any answers to the walkers I have so they can mostly just kill him uncontested. He had bridge in game 2 but a Wear // Tear killed it in time to summon the spaghetti princess. Emrakul makes his job much harder and Nahiri served as a wonderful answer to his Leyline of the Void.
Gotta say this deck seemed to have a lot of discussion there with its gaining popularity. I actually think it's ill suited to the meta of my specific LGS but obviously it works well enough to chalk up wins. Some guys there seem to think it's totally a solid option, and the current meta just favors it more than ever. Others say it's a bad deck that cheeses its wins with moon and chalice. I'm just gonna continue to run it either way, it's obviously good enough to be competitive and I enjoy it.
Ok! Well I've made it to my very first modern event! And well... didn't go so well. I took this list there, pretty much the same as Todd Stevens' list
Dont get down about it. When I first started playing Modern (about a year ago) I lost ALOT! But I started learning the format and watched alot of the Modern coverage from SCG and the GP's and learned much about how all the different decks play. And I have started winning alot more.
No worries! I was by no means upset over it. Usually when I take a few loses I just think about it a lot. I will say I learned a lot just from the first time and frankly I'm excited to continue to use this deck when I go back! Especially being that I'm the only one with this style of deck there
Unfortunately my first real experience with modern was not successful going 1-3 with the lone "win" just a bye. I'm not surprised, a little disappointed maybe but I'm here to learn.
Match 1: Esper draw-go (0-2). I dunno what to do about this. Game 1 was a lot of draw go from both sides. I stuck a fairly early chalice on 1 but my opponent seemed more than content to just play esper charms and draw cards. Never saw a blood moon til late. I haven't a clue how to stick a planeswalker on the field either... tried to wait for him to tap down a few times but everything of his was instant speed end step. Lose to a second Secure the wastes after I wrath the first. Side in 3 leyline, other Chandra, and 3 RIP; out 3 anger, 1 wrath and 3 helix. Game 2 I kept a 1 lander after mull to 6 on the hope that a scry and my turn 1 chalice with SSG would be ok. Big mistake, won't be doing that again. No lands for next several draws = gg.
Match 2: Eldrazi and Taxes (0-2). Not a deck I'm familiar with in terms of what they run as well as some others. Game 1: never saw any lock pieces, I think blood moon could've gone a long way. Eventually get a chalice on 1. Drew mostly targeted removal in the form of helixes. Couldn't get a walker to stick and Reality smasher is a good card, gg. In: 3 leyline, 1 wrath; out: 2 helix, 2 anger. Game 2: Forgot Aether Vial was a thing, should've brought Stony in. Drew all 3 wraths and no walkers. Eventually just got overrun.
Match 3: Bye
Match 4: Temur Eldrazi (0-2). My friend's build who came with me. Also his first event. We play a lot and generally know how things go and frankly were hoping we wouldn't face each other... no luck. Game 1: lots of removal in hand, 3 lands and a Nahiri, I keep. His hand is slow, I'm feeling solid. Get's out a skyspawner and a vile aggregate. Declarations clears aggregate and I play a turn 4 Nahiri planning to wrath next turn. Scion + spawner + bolt kills Nahiri, fine I still clean up the board after he plays a smasher. Blessed Alliance and helix gain me a surprising amount of life and the game drags on. Never stuck another walker for long... gg. In: Leyline x3, Wrath x1, Crumble x1, Timely x1, BA x1. Out: Helix x4, anger x3. Game 2: another lengthy slaughterfest. Mull to 6 after seeing another 1 land. Keep with 3 lands, SSG, chalice and Nahiri. Turn 1 chalice is nice but my Nahiri which looked safe on turn 4 got bolted after -2ing a Smasher. No blood moon for a while. Drew only lands and removal spells for next half of my deck. Board stayed clear but I couldn't win. Eventually burnt out... gg
Overall... idk how to feel. I felt like I had answers for most things but couldn't ever draw them in the right order. Drawing no walkers after going through half your deck is a really bad feeling too. But at least I got a scouting report of the local meta. In addition to what I saw there was Jund, suicide zoo, Ad Nauseum, UB mill, mono w humans, grixis delver, and a few others I'm missing or didn't see. Good news is that they now do modern on Tuesdays and Fridays so getting there should be much easier!
Hey MrDude! Your list is very similar to the one I'm currently running. But one question: how did you like having Ajani Vengeant in the deck? I've been running 2 additional Gideon Jura with no Ajani. Gideon feels like an all star to me since he can draw fire from me or my other walkers if I get him out and although he's usually not as game ending on his own with no ultimate, his utility is undeniable
Has anyone found any real success with Nahiri stax/landkill builds? I've seen landkill/stax without walkers here quite a bit, especially suppression field builds as well as Nahiri-ponza builds that run wraths and no taxing effects (prison, magus, etc.) but none that utilize all 3 pieces of Nahiri, landkill, and taxing effects. It feels like my efforts are quite spread out.
It's also getting increasingly frustrating seeing this blend of pieces lose to decks that I think it should beat. Whether it be my other pet decks that I haven't devoted the same amount of time to, match-ups that I think I should win (decks with greedy mana bases, things like tron where we can turn them off tron easily, etc.), or sometimes even some of my friends' more casual decks. The idea feels inconsistent and more often than not I feel as though I'm running into the same set of problems.
Nahiri is harder to defend that she should be. She's my only serious win con, outside of running out Dark-Dwellers and hoping that they can beat the opponent down. Magus doesn't protect her well enough sometimes (assuming I can keep him on the field) and prison only keeps me alive, not her. Leylines help, just not against creatures
I feel as though I'm consistently pressured into resolving a bust to regain a favorable position if the opponent was able to draw into enough lands to continue what they want after the first few booms/stone rains/molten rains. Then the race is simply resolve bust or die... and a lot of times I just die
So I feel as though I have to either take the deck in one of 2 main directions. Either convert it into a suppression field build and drop the walkers, and maybe even add crucible for a ghost quarter recursion lock, or take the deck's lock pieces out and substitute them for wraths and spot removal. I feel as though a suppression field landkill stax build would be very effective but it gets around the primary reason I created this deck in the first place which was to build a RW deck around Nahiri. Conversely, going into Nahiri ponza w/o taxes seems risky, and a good recipe to die quickly to a lot of aggro decks.
A lot of you guys have plenty more experience than I do. I'd really love to hear your advice on this... I tend to overthink things and doubt my own decklists
Edit: I think for now I'm going to drop ghostly prison, and maybe even just a little bit of landkill. Without recursion I think it's best to focus slightly less on the landkill lock and more on protecting Nahiri, even if just a bit. Maybe add a 4th magus while I'm at it, and banishing light/oblivion ring to be a sort of catch-all. The best change I made was having 4 Temple of Triumph. The scry is amazingly good...
Didn't even think about the whole RiP/Dwellers nonbo. But I certainly want graveyard hate for the side... if not Rip what would make for a good solution? Relic can't be used if chalice is on one. I suppose I could play around it with either one or the other though.
On that subject what do you think of 4 chalices? I only have 2 in there right now but resolving one early sounds like such a free win against a lot of decks in the same way that leyline is that I can't help but think it's a good idea but I'm not entirely sure what I would drop yet. Chalice is also probably one of my biggest motivations to keep the mana monkey in the deck, though things like molten rain a turn earlier are nice too. Spirit guide does feel like a weak draw after the first few turns however
Wrath was kinda there for filler... I'm not entirely sure what else I should put in the sideboard yet. Probably will add another wear and another anti-graveyard piece (whatever I find) in place of the 2 wraths. Then I'll slide in 2 more leylines mainboard. Thanks for the advice!
Hey guys, I've likewise been following this thread for a little bit now. I discovered Nahiri ponza builds prior to actually finding this thread though and that's what I've decided to stick to so far... I'm just not very interested in working with a bridge build right now. Regardless, I am new to modern and I'm looking to take the deck I've been building to my LGS soon so I'd like any pointers!
I'm entirely unaware of what the local meta is like... the only experience I have really is against my friend's Eldrazi deck and his Tron deck. In the sideboard I planned on dropping maybe purges for 2 more Leylines to protect walkers and mainboard I think I should add 2 more chalices once I can get them. Outside that I'm not entirely sure what would be the best changes. It has the walkers to win, enough taxes (I think), and I'm hoping enough landkill to keep the opponent dialed back. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? No doubt I'll need to test it more to get data. Any advice is much appreciated! I'll be glad to post results here once I get them
Thank you for the reply! I follow that entirely, and frankly I kinda wanted to pick up Opals eventually anyway. What do you use in place of the baubles though? Do you have a list I could see? It's good to hear that you feel like the deck is fast enough without them too
So I guess I'm just in a bit of a bind as to what I should be doing. Are there alternative builds I should really be looking at? The whir lists seem far and away the most prevalent ones among the forums, and frankly it makes sense. The scrap trawler build I see floating around here also looks very appealing, and much easier for me to access, though it doesn't seem to grab nearly as much attention. So where should I head with this? Thank you for any and all advice, it's much appreciated!
Match 1: Naya Burn. Was a bit intimidated when I first saw this but Sun and Moon (I guess that's what people are calling it?) destroys that *****... clean 2-0. Guy was salty all night about it.
Match 2: Merfolk. Close match, took out blood moons after game 1 which I think was the right decision. Lost just barely 1-2. Turn Nahiri put it work game 2 and made an easy win, other games were a bit grindier. I think I could've won if I ghost quartered a mutavault instead of a cavern.
Match 3: Free win red. All the free win stuff... chalice, moon, magus of the moon, bridge, etc. Super slow. Lost 2-0... the only walkers that could interact successfully with him was Chandra and Ajani once bridge was down and I had very few answers to it even after sideboard. Very slow, super grindy, had a lot of laughs with the guy about it though
Match 4: UB Mill. Not much to say here, got a clean 2-0. He has few if any answers to the walkers I have so they can mostly just kill him uncontested. He had bridge in game 2 but a Wear // Tear killed it in time to summon the spaghetti princess. Emrakul makes his job much harder and Nahiri served as a wonderful answer to his Leyline of the Void.
Gotta say this deck seemed to have a lot of discussion there with its gaining popularity. I actually think it's ill suited to the meta of my specific LGS but obviously it works well enough to chalk up wins. Some guys there seem to think it's totally a solid option, and the current meta just favors it more than ever. Others say it's a bad deck that cheeses its wins with moon and chalice. I'm just gonna continue to run it either way, it's obviously good enough to be competitive and I enjoy it.
No worries! I was by no means upset over it. Usually when I take a few loses I just think about it a lot. I will say I learned a lot just from the first time and frankly I'm excited to continue to use this deck when I go back! Especially being that I'm the only one with this style of deck there
4 Simian Spirit Guide
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Planeswalkers (9)
1 Ajani Vengeant
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Gideon Jura
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Lands (24)
2 Mountain
9 Plains
2 Needle Spires
1 Rugged Prairie
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Triumph
2 Ghost Quarter
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Banishing Light
4 Blood Moon
2 Declaration in Stone
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Lightning Helix
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Wrath of God
3 Leyline of Sanctity
3 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
1 Wear // Tear
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
1 Crumble to Dust
Unfortunately my first real experience with modern was not successful going 1-3 with the lone "win" just a bye. I'm not surprised, a little disappointed maybe but I'm here to learn.
Match 1: Esper draw-go (0-2). I dunno what to do about this. Game 1 was a lot of draw go from both sides. I stuck a fairly early chalice on 1 but my opponent seemed more than content to just play esper charms and draw cards. Never saw a blood moon til late. I haven't a clue how to stick a planeswalker on the field either... tried to wait for him to tap down a few times but everything of his was instant speed end step. Lose to a second Secure the wastes after I wrath the first. Side in 3 leyline, other Chandra, and 3 RIP; out 3 anger, 1 wrath and 3 helix. Game 2 I kept a 1 lander after mull to 6 on the hope that a scry and my turn 1 chalice with SSG would be ok. Big mistake, won't be doing that again. No lands for next several draws = gg.
Match 2: Eldrazi and Taxes (0-2). Not a deck I'm familiar with in terms of what they run as well as some others. Game 1: never saw any lock pieces, I think blood moon could've gone a long way. Eventually get a chalice on 1. Drew mostly targeted removal in the form of helixes. Couldn't get a walker to stick and Reality smasher is a good card, gg. In: 3 leyline, 1 wrath; out: 2 helix, 2 anger. Game 2: Forgot Aether Vial was a thing, should've brought Stony in. Drew all 3 wraths and no walkers. Eventually just got overrun.
Match 3: Bye
Match 4: Temur Eldrazi (0-2). My friend's build who came with me. Also his first event. We play a lot and generally know how things go and frankly were hoping we wouldn't face each other... no luck. Game 1: lots of removal in hand, 3 lands and a Nahiri, I keep. His hand is slow, I'm feeling solid. Get's out a skyspawner and a vile aggregate. Declarations clears aggregate and I play a turn 4 Nahiri planning to wrath next turn. Scion + spawner + bolt kills Nahiri, fine I still clean up the board after he plays a smasher. Blessed Alliance and helix gain me a surprising amount of life and the game drags on. Never stuck another walker for long... gg. In: Leyline x3, Wrath x1, Crumble x1, Timely x1, BA x1. Out: Helix x4, anger x3. Game 2: another lengthy slaughterfest. Mull to 6 after seeing another 1 land. Keep with 3 lands, SSG, chalice and Nahiri. Turn 1 chalice is nice but my Nahiri which looked safe on turn 4 got bolted after -2ing a Smasher. No blood moon for a while. Drew only lands and removal spells for next half of my deck. Board stayed clear but I couldn't win. Eventually burnt out... gg
Overall... idk how to feel. I felt like I had answers for most things but couldn't ever draw them in the right order. Drawing no walkers after going through half your deck is a really bad feeling too. But at least I got a scouting report of the local meta. In addition to what I saw there was Jund, suicide zoo, Ad Nauseum, UB mill, mono w humans, grixis delver, and a few others I'm missing or didn't see. Good news is that they now do modern on Tuesdays and Fridays so getting there should be much easier!
It's also getting increasingly frustrating seeing this blend of pieces lose to decks that I think it should beat. Whether it be my other pet decks that I haven't devoted the same amount of time to, match-ups that I think I should win (decks with greedy mana bases, things like tron where we can turn them off tron easily, etc.), or sometimes even some of my friends' more casual decks. The idea feels inconsistent and more often than not I feel as though I'm running into the same set of problems.
So I feel as though I have to either take the deck in one of 2 main directions. Either convert it into a suppression field build and drop the walkers, and maybe even add crucible for a ghost quarter recursion lock, or take the deck's lock pieces out and substitute them for wraths and spot removal. I feel as though a suppression field landkill stax build would be very effective but it gets around the primary reason I created this deck in the first place which was to build a RW deck around Nahiri. Conversely, going into Nahiri ponza w/o taxes seems risky, and a good recipe to die quickly to a lot of aggro decks.
A lot of you guys have plenty more experience than I do. I'd really love to hear your advice on this... I tend to overthink things and doubt my own decklists
Edit: I think for now I'm going to drop ghostly prison, and maybe even just a little bit of landkill. Without recursion I think it's best to focus slightly less on the landkill lock and more on protecting Nahiri, even if just a bit. Maybe add a 4th magus while I'm at it, and banishing light/oblivion ring to be a sort of catch-all. The best change I made was having 4 Temple of Triumph. The scry is amazingly good...
On that subject what do you think of 4 chalices? I only have 2 in there right now but resolving one early sounds like such a free win against a lot of decks in the same way that leyline is that I can't help but think it's a good idea but I'm not entirely sure what I would drop yet. Chalice is also probably one of my biggest motivations to keep the mana monkey in the deck, though things like molten rain a turn earlier are nice too. Spirit guide does feel like a weak draw after the first few turns however
Wrath was kinda there for filler... I'm not entirely sure what else I should put in the sideboard yet. Probably will add another wear and another anti-graveyard piece (whatever I find) in place of the 2 wraths. Then I'll slide in 2 more leylines mainboard. Thanks for the advice!
4 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Sacred Foundry
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Needle Spires
2 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Rugged Prairie
2 Plains
2 Mountain
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
Creatures
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Magus of the Tabernacle
3 Goblin Dark-Dwellers
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Chalice of the Void
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boom // Bust
4 Molten Rain
4 Ghostly Prison
2 Ajani Vengeant
4 Nahiri, the Harbinger
2 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wrath of God
1 Wear // Tear
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Ricochet Trap
2 Rest in Peace
2 Celestial Purge
1 Timely Reinforcements
I'm entirely unaware of what the local meta is like... the only experience I have really is against my friend's Eldrazi deck and his Tron deck. In the sideboard I planned on dropping maybe purges for 2 more Leylines to protect walkers and mainboard I think I should add 2 more chalices once I can get them. Outside that I'm not entirely sure what would be the best changes. It has the walkers to win, enough taxes (I think), and I'm hoping enough landkill to keep the opponent dialed back. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? No doubt I'll need to test it more to get data. Any advice is much appreciated! I'll be glad to post results here once I get them