Quote from radouf »@Molz: Hey, congrats on the finish! I have been reading your write-ups with interest and I find that you seem to find insight in a framework of proactive/reactive disprution vs tempo positive/negative play vs card quality/advantage in the context of a prison deck. But as much as I think there's knowledge to be gained from this, I can't seem to fully grasp it. Would you mind laying down general outlines of this theory for us? Thanks!
Here are some scattered bits that look like the tip of an iceberg we need to look at in it's wholeness:
Generally:And lastly, looking forward to watching you streaming!My general plan is that trading resources with inquisition/push is not where we want to be. We want to be locking out entire sections of their deck by not playing creatures/ playing a bridge. Trading 1 for 1 and being tempo negative on a card like inquisition isn't what a combo/prison deck is trying to do. This is why I currently only play brutality. Post board I think discard is powerful to take their hate against the right matchups (I run thought seizes).
I also think 4 visions is very good, but you need to be willing to trim them in sideboarding. Like I said in an earlier post visions is about positive card quality and negative tempo. Spending mana to spin your wheels but dig a bit. Versus aggressive matchups we don't have enough time.
On vs Tron:Spellskite doesn't seem like it really interacts well versus ulamog. It just throws away a card to partially beat their trigger. I'd rather play more proactive disruption.
On SBing:Predicting how my opponents will play and how much they intend to rely on hate versus beat me in a fair game. I trim mana acceleration like mox/prism versus grindier/discard heavy decks because they are positive tempo and negative card quality, and in these matches I want higher top deck equity. Likewise if I need to drop a bridge to 0 immediately versus affinity/infect I cut serum visions as they are negative tempo but positive card quality.
Happy to explain my thoughts Radouf. Lets use a bunch of examples to illustrate.
Tempo: Term meaning time. Mana (or time) is a limited resource in magic. To spend time on plays that don't progress you towards victory is wasted tempo. Positive tempo trades are if I play a bridge and it nullifies my opponents thought knot seer and reality smasher. I paid 3 mana for their 8 worth of spells. Negative tempo would be if I thought seize my opponent's thought knot seer while they have another one in hand (I have spent 1 mana, and they have not spent any mana yet). A tempo neutral exchange would be if I collective brutality my opponent's eidelon and force them to discard a spell and I drain them for 2 (in this exchange we each spent 2 mana on our play).
This is also why collective brutality to look for an instant or sorcery against a counterspell deck or a k/command deck is very low tempo and not too exciting but sometimes a play we make.
In an example where tempo is important:
Affinity: Serum Visions and Bridge. In a normal game versus affinity I have time for a turn 2 play, and a turn 3 bridge to stall some of the board and then turn 4 or maybe 5 if they had a slow start I need to be empty handed. Bridge with 1 or 2 cards doesn't stop them going all in on an inkmoth nexus with a ravager for lethal, or large chunks of damage with etched champions walking passed blue thopters. Serum visions is great on turn 1 to fix your hand, but on turn 2 I need to either be playing a prism or a brutality (to interact but mostly just reduce hand size). Turn 3 needs to be bridge or set up for a turn 4 bridge. If you have a bridge in play but your hand is now serum visions and you missed a land drop, you can't physically cast all of your spells unless you hope to topdeck a land off the visions. This is an example where serum visions actually drawing a card loses you the game. The fact that you had to spend 1 mana to draw a card and then cast that card on limited mana is likely difficult.
Similar scenario for Burn. Turn 1 serum visions is fine to set up, but turn 2 I need to brutality or play a thopter/sword with a 0 drop to whir/play the other copy on 3. Serum visions at this point out is strictly worse than a land. If they play an eidelon on 2, then serum visions is actually not just negative tempo but painful.
This is why mox opal/pentad prism are such good cards. They are extremely high tempo cards.
Proactive versus reactive disruption: In the same mindset as tempo, our deck tends to have plenty to do with its mana. If I held up a negate on a turn that my opponent did not play a spell I could negate I just wasted 2 mana (negative tempo). If I can proactively play a pithing needle on their Karn, I didn't get positive tempo, but I proactively tried to lock my opponent into 'needing to draw their out'. If I have needle on Karn and a needle on O-stone, then I want to end the game before they draw their ulamog. Proactively I am shutting down parts of my opponents deck. This is similar to a slaughter games effect. The trick is that trying to contain every card is likely impossible in these matchups. Keeping a whir for a spellskite to contain 1/2 of an ulamog trigger will let them target my 2 needles, and whichever one I save they play the other card rotting in their hand (making my needle only buy time and not actually lock them out). This is a reactive response to something you cannot proactively stop).
We can't always be proactive, but when in doubt make the opponent have it (odds are they don't). This is where reading your opponent comes in, thinking have they had a better time to play their out or not. If they have had a good time and chose not to, they likely don't have it.
The last piece is Card Quality: Better cards than my opponent wants me to have. This is where serum visions is very very good.
Versus deathshadow or grindy matchups like Jund I want to side out as many bad top decks as I can. I don't plan to lock my opponent turn 3 and ride it for the rest of the game. I expect many discard spells to take my key pieces, counter spells for 1 mana to give my opponent positive tempo and disrupt my combo/bridge, or artifact removal spells. This is why I side out most of the pentad prisms/mox opals for cards that NEED to be answered. (Chalice for death shadow/maelstrom pulse).
Imagine if you're on the deathshadow side and you see a hand of 3 lands, a thopter foundry, a bridge, a chalice and a mishra's bauble. What do you take? They always take the chalice because they can't function with it in play, but now I'm left with very strong cards. They will likely follow up with 2 more discard spells because they're great like that! This takes our foundry and bridge, now we're both low on resources and in a top deck war. This is where I wait to crack my bauble until I have time to cast the card I would draw (and almost always at their end step or upkeep, don't want to expose that new card to discard). The difference between drawing a pentad prism and drawing another chalice/maelstrom pulse is huge. I didn't need to race my opponent to place my things in play like we do versus affinity, because I know the deathshadow decks are going to disrupt me along the way.
This is where serum vision really shines. It helps you keep cards on top of your deck where your opponent can't discard them. Keeping redundant copies of bridge/foundry is very strong as it forces them to have more artifact disruption.
As an aside, The idea of card quality over card advantage is extremely important throughout magic. Most obvious is the card Brainstorm. I play a lot of legacy midrange blue decks and you don't technically draw positive 3 cards with brainstorm, but if you put back 2 lands/dead cards and draw 3 great spells and fetch it away you've built an A-call.
Hopefully, that helps partially explain how I look at the deck. We have the ability to combo quickly and get to a board state where they cannot win, but also grind forever due to key cards (mostly bridge) locking out entire portions of their deck. Having a sideboard that supports this plan and isn't just based on a singleton bullet and playing to hope they can't beat it is important (this is why I think trinisphere is not a good sideboard card).
Happy to help answer any questions on my thoughts or take criticism. I'm still learning too and this is a large reason I bought the deck on MODO to be able to test things like aether grid/spire etc.
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I'd say Collective Brutality is a great card to get but maybe not quite as good. It is however, probably the single best card we have against burn especially and does well against other aggro decks where multiple modes are relevant. But I'm not sold on it being main-deckable in the way Kommand is.
Separate note: I love switching up my flex slot(s) and I think I'll be giving Logic Knot a try this time. I'm down to just the 3 Tasigur as my delve cards so I think it's fine, and I imagine it as just counterspell most times. I'm not sure it would be better than Deprive, but it seems to fit my build, and I like the card
*Quick edit: I like having at least one card in the side dedicated for grindy matchups (lots of URx in my meta). Lately I've been using Painful Truths but a lot of the other grixis players at my LGS have Rise // Fall. Never played that card personally... how has your guys' performance been with either of those?