I’ve seen @lunicyl below disagrees about the need for a different wincon but we’re about to start playing in a modern format with Flusterstorm and Weather the Storm. These cards are problems for us. So developing an alt wincon is a good idea.
Ultimately, I think this is a sideboard card - it’s very good as an alt wincon versus Chalice on zero and provide bodies to sacrifice to lolly effects.
Been a while since I've posted on the thread but I've really been enjoying reading the progress people have been making with the deck. So much that I ran it at the SCG Baltimore Modern Open on Saturday. Unfortunately, I didn't have the best of times and went 2-4 drop.
However, despite my record, my experience at the weekend has raised a few things that I'd like to discuss to gauge peoples opinion on a few things.
1. Claim//Fame. A lot of people have been having success with this, either in the main or in the side and I agree that it is an auto-include. The question I wish to raise is that for people running graveyard hate, is Tormod's Crypt not a better card the Rest in Peace? I've personally found that against a number of decks I want to run graveyard hate and Claim//Fame and Rest in Peace is a Nonbo in this instance. Additionally, though it doesn't generate draws Tormod's Crypt works nicely with Retract to add to your storm count. Thoughts?
2. Serum Visions. A few lists have ran 3 Serum Visions recently and not the traditional 4. I believe this to be a mistake, at the weekend I had a number of 1 land hands, where if I had seen serum visions to dig deeper in either my opening hand or next 3 cards the game could have been very different. I am a huge fan of 2 Noxious Revival though, it allows for some extremely creative gameplay I just don't think sacrificing the fourth visons is how to make room for it.
3. Ghostly Prison. One of our toughest matchups is Humans - plus other aggressive go wide strategies. A common trend of those decks is that they have limited access to mana to pay for prison. I wanted to run this at the weekend but was unable to get copies of it at the event so didn't but felt like it would have been useful. I feel it's most useful when you have stalled and need a few more turns to combo off. I feel 2/3 in the side may be a good choice, thoughts? I have since trailed this online and I'm finding that it gives me an extra 4-6 turns on average to find what I need.
4. Angel's Grace. This is again another card that I didn't run at the weekend but once against burn and once against humans (Eidolon of the Great Revel & Kambal, Consul of Allocation) it would have allowed me to combo through the hate. I also feel it has value against the go wide beatdown strategies too, who have a tendency to finish will an all-out attack. I feel on reflection that this card could be extremely useful in the deck, thoughts?
Well, that's my musings after the weekend, I have a love-hate relationship with this deck. It was my first modern deck (pre-Sram) and I keep wanting to do well with it but keep getting bruised and battered at big tournaments. Not sure if I'm going to put it back on the shelf for a while. Fingers crossed for some awesome UW cards in Ravnica Allegiance. Hope people found this useful!
Appreciating that the mana base would have to be tweaked, what are people’s opinion of running Blood Moon in the side?
Or main?
I feel if you are on the play, you can cast BM on T2/3 relatively easily and shut down most meta decks less burn and hollow one.
Has anyone tried running Blood Moon previously? I have a tournament at the weekend and I’m looking to innovate.
- I’m expecting a lot of resistance to this proposal as it makes access to blue mana harder. I personally already run an Island in the main (which I know is viewed as suboptimal but it’s good with the bird)
-A potential manabase would be:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Plains
1 Island
(I am on a phone, so can’t tag cards. I will update this post later with card tags)
Just a quick question - could Diligent Excavator reasonably serve as an alternate wincon?
I dislike this - it’s too fragile.
It needs to be in place as you go off which leads it being prone to removal. If not you need to spend mana as you go off (not before you draw your deck) which may prevent you casting that crucial 2nd/3rd retract. It can also be countered easier than a storm spell.
As it says ‘target’ in the name this doesn’t get around cards that give your opponent hexproof (Leyline etc.)
The only instance this would be useful would be vs a life gain deck but there aren’t too many infinite life decks in the meta at the moment.
The release of Artificer's Assistant has persuaded me to play the deck again. I have been running a few different bird variants online, Cockatrice, and have racked up a win percentage of 70-80%.
After 60-80 outings on-line I settled on the following list and decided to give it a run out in paper during the SCG Modern Classic in Baltimore this weekend.
For those who don't know me, Cheeri0s was my first Modern deck and I have been running it for a little over 3 years (pre-SRAM).
Today was very hit and miss - sadly! In the end, I went 3-3 then dropped. I did however really feel for the first time in a long time that this deck has the potential to do very well in a major tournament. The bird enables you to keep a far greater degree of starting hands than you were able to do so previously. Anyways, I made brief notes on today and the blow by blow account of how I faired is as follows:
Match 1: LOSS 0-2 to Jeskai Control
Game 1- opponent was on the play I realized instantly he was on a URx variant and as such had counters & bolt in his list. To that end, I held up Paladin and Equipment awaiting for my opponent to tap out. When he eventually tapped out, I cast Paladin + 3 Equipment and Retract off of Opal but eventually whiffed allowing the opponent to beat me down with Colonnade and Snapcaster over a few turns.
Game 2- I board in 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Metallic Rebuke, 2 Ghirapur Aether Grid. I manage to resolve an Aether Grid and start getting to work but unfortunately my opponent plays Damping Sphere 2 turns on the bounce before bouncing my Aether Grid and smashing me with Collonade again. Counterspells prevent me from regaining any momentum.
Match 2: LOSS 0-2 to Humans
Game 1- With Opponent on the play I kept a Dubious 6. He Resolves Thalia, Guardian of Thraben T2 then casts a Kitesail Freebooter T3. These threats coupled with his Champion of the Parish on the board lead me to scooping to the Freebooter which I still felt was the correct play. At this stage, my opponent still has no idea what I am on other than a WUx deck.
Game 2- No Land lead me Mulliganing to 4. My opponent has me down to 6 life on T3 and is able to deal me lethal in his T4. To that end, I am forced into trying to go off with Sram plus 2 Equipment on my T4, I whiff, and scoop.
Match 3: WIN 2-1 vs TRON
Game 1- Opponent on the play, I have an excellent starting hand of Bird, Palladin and 2 Equipment, 2 Land and an Opal (Pretty much the nuts). T1 he plays Power Plant and Map. T2 he plays Mine. So I am forced to attempt to go off on my T2 knowing he will have TRON online next turn. Despite drawing a third equipment Bird+Paladin and 3 Equipment all whiff! Opponent plays Karn to take paladin next turn and then Ugin on T4 - and that's all they wrote.
Game 2- Can't remember the full ins and outs but I keep a decent hand and Combo off T3 or 4 for the win. (First successful combo of the day!)
Game 3- Opponent thankfully does get TRON online until T5! Which was a huge sigh of relief as my opening hand had been quite poor! I resolve a paladin T4, which he dismembers before I can draw of an equipment. His T4 he plays Karn and exiles my second land. Things are looking bleak, thankfully I have 2 retract, grapeshot, 1 Opal and 1 Equipment in hand. On the board, I have 1 Opal and 2 equipment. I manage to enough storm without draws to resolve grapeshot for the win.
Match 4: WIN 2-1 vs UR Something? (It ran Dynavolt Tower and Chandra, the Firebrand... along with your usual smattering of Snapcasters, bolts and counters - weird)
Game 1 - It becomes apparent quite quickly that my opponent is pretty inexperienced, so I sit back and wait for him to tap out which he does. I combo with 3 Equipment with a Bird and Sram on board. Waited until T5.
Game 2 - I am forced to counter a Blood Moon with Swan Song during his T3. I try and go off on my T3 with Paladin and 3 Equipment. I whiff and he proceeds to kill me over a few turns using multiple bolts, snapcaster, and that Swan!
Game 3 - Really quick game. He tapped out on T3 and I combo off for the win on my T4.
Game 5: WIN 2-0 vs UR Storm
Match 1 - Opponent reads my deck as UW control and digs hard T1 and T2. With him tapped out on T2, I combo off for the win on T3.
Match 2 - I keep one of my most unusual hands ... 2 Opal, Bird, Paladin, Retract, Swansong, Equipment. T1 I draw an Equipment and play an Opal. T2 I draw a land and resolve bird and paladin. I attempt to combo off and get storm to lethal but can't draw the extra opals needed to cast grapeshot. T3 he plays Baral into Gifts, which I counter with Swan Song. My T3 I hard cast Leyline of Sanctity. T4 he resolves a Goblin. My T4 I get, with help from my opponent, storm to 4 which I use to kill Goblin and Baral in second main after he blocks my paladin with his Baral during the combat step. After I cast RiP on T5 my opponent eventually scoops when I start to go off on T6.
Game 6: LOSS 1-2 vs Ad Nauseum
This match was all done and dusted quite quickly - whoever had it - Had it!
Game 1 - I combo off T3
Game 2 - He combos off T4
Game 3 - He combos off T4
Hopefully, this is useful for the community. I intend to Jam Cheeri0s for the rest on the SCG Modern series that are local to Baltimore (hopefully with better results). This is my first-time match reporting, I will take more notes in future tournaments so I can capture more of what happens in my matches.
We've had Solemnity spoiled. I can think of a bunch of cards that that works super well with, especially enchantments. Specifically, Elephant Grass and Mystic Remora, and Phyrexian Unlife. Is this direction something worth exploring? Or is it just not as good as the current lists.
Still tweaking the mechanics, but solemnity adds DD combo to Enchantress! Lets get brewing, I have a feeling that this deck can easily become very competitive with very little effort using the DD combo.
Nice list - thanks for summarizing many of options to protect our engines.
I'm not sure why Erayo, Soratami Ascendant isn't on the list - or even discussed much on this thread. I just did a search and found 'Erayo' in the sideboards of a few lists but no real discussion. It's a huge removal magnet and even if the protection it offers can be played around (at some cost I might add), its raw power to disrupt our opponents game plan shouldn't be overlooked.
Erayo is situationally good; I've ran her in side and main and now dropped her. Against any of the tribal decks she is often a waste as they play Cavern and against BG/BGx again she sttuggles to Abrupt Decay.
Sadly Eldrazi is firmly in the Meta with the Merfolk/Elves/Humans rare but still appearing every so often. BG/BGx is now everywhere, Fatal Push has got people excited about playing it.
So as I mentioned the other day I have decided to add a fourth colour - Black! Firstly, a thank you to those who replied to me with the deck suggestions. The ones I've added to the list are:
Fatal Push: This is the card that has drawn me to the colour in the first place, it is significantly better (IMO) than any of the White 1 CMC removal spells as it has no upside for the opponent. Additionally, with 8 fetches, 3/4 repeals and 4 retract more often than not we are using this to remove a 4 CMC creature. It hits main haters - Eidolon x 2 & Thalia.
Battle at the Bridge: I believe Fatal Push at instant speed is better but the key to this card is the life gain. Which can buy he deck extra turns needed to win out.
Glaze Fiend: I really like this card; whilst it provides a similar win method to Grapeshot which is a downside the fact that it flies often gets the damage through. Also gives your opponent something else to focus his removal spells on beyond the cantrip brothers.
Kambal, Consul of Allocation: I included this card as part of my mirror breaker tech but once he as a shield on he is extremely against any of the burn variants.
So without further ado I present Fiendish Equipment! Still tweaking sideboard and trying to figure out the best 6/7 Metallic Rebuke, Fatal Push, Battle at the Bridge combination to run. Also contemplating dropping to 13 land. As ever, constructive feedback welcome.
I’ve seen @lunicyl below disagrees about the need for a different wincon but we’re about to start playing in a modern format with Flusterstorm and Weather the Storm. These cards are problems for us. So developing an alt wincon is a good idea.
Ultimately, I think this is a sideboard card - it’s very good as an alt wincon versus Chalice on zero and provide bodies to sacrifice to lolly effects.
Been a while since I've posted on the thread but I've really been enjoying reading the progress people have been making with the deck. So much that I ran it at the SCG Baltimore Modern Open on Saturday. Unfortunately, I didn't have the best of times and went 2-4 drop.
However, despite my record, my experience at the weekend has raised a few things that I'd like to discuss to gauge peoples opinion on a few things.
1. Claim//Fame. A lot of people have been having success with this, either in the main or in the side and I agree that it is an auto-include. The question I wish to raise is that for people running graveyard hate, is Tormod's Crypt not a better card the Rest in Peace? I've personally found that against a number of decks I want to run graveyard hate and Claim//Fame and Rest in Peace is a Nonbo in this instance. Additionally, though it doesn't generate draws Tormod's Crypt works nicely with Retract to add to your storm count. Thoughts?
2. Serum Visions. A few lists have ran 3 Serum Visions recently and not the traditional 4. I believe this to be a mistake, at the weekend I had a number of 1 land hands, where if I had seen serum visions to dig deeper in either my opening hand or next 3 cards the game could have been very different. I am a huge fan of 2 Noxious Revival though, it allows for some extremely creative gameplay I just don't think sacrificing the fourth visons is how to make room for it.
3. Ghostly Prison. One of our toughest matchups is Humans - plus other aggressive go wide strategies. A common trend of those decks is that they have limited access to mana to pay for prison. I wanted to run this at the weekend but was unable to get copies of it at the event so didn't but felt like it would have been useful. I feel it's most useful when you have stalled and need a few more turns to combo off. I feel 2/3 in the side may be a good choice, thoughts? I have since trailed this online and I'm finding that it gives me an extra 4-6 turns on average to find what I need.
4. Angel's Grace. This is again another card that I didn't run at the weekend but once against burn and once against humans (Eidolon of the Great Revel & Kambal, Consul of Allocation) it would have allowed me to combo through the hate. I also feel it has value against the go wide beatdown strategies too, who have a tendency to finish will an all-out attack. I feel on reflection that this card could be extremely useful in the deck, thoughts?
Well, that's my musings after the weekend, I have a love-hate relationship with this deck. It was my first modern deck (pre-Sram) and I keep wanting to do well with it but keep getting bruised and battered at big tournaments. Not sure if I'm going to put it back on the shelf for a while. Fingers crossed for some awesome UW cards in Ravnica Allegiance. Hope people found this useful!
How well did it work?
Or main?
I feel if you are on the play, you can cast BM on T2/3 relatively easily and shut down most meta decks less burn and hollow one.
Has anyone tried running Blood Moon previously? I have a tournament at the weekend and I’m looking to innovate.
- I’m expecting a lot of resistance to this proposal as it makes access to blue mana harder. I personally already run an Island in the main (which I know is viewed as suboptimal but it’s good with the bird)
-A potential manabase would be:
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seachrome Coast
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Plains
1 Island
(I am on a phone, so can’t tag cards. I will update this post later with card tags)
Unsure if this guy is a member of the thread or not but this is pretty useful
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/265912440
I dislike this - it’s too fragile.
It needs to be in place as you go off which leads it being prone to removal. If not you need to spend mana as you go off (not before you draw your deck) which may prevent you casting that crucial 2nd/3rd retract. It can also be countered easier than a storm spell.
As it says ‘target’ in the name this doesn’t get around cards that give your opponent hexproof (Leyline etc.)
The only instance this would be useful would be vs a life gain deck but there aren’t too many infinite life decks in the meta at the moment.
IMO stick with Grapeshot and other alt wincons
The release of Artificer's Assistant has persuaded me to play the deck again. I have been running a few different bird variants online, Cockatrice, and have racked up a win percentage of 70-80%.
After 60-80 outings on-line I settled on the following list and decided to give it a run out in paper during the SCG Modern Classic in Baltimore this weekend.
For those who don't know me, Cheeri0s was my first Modern deck and I have been running it for a little over 3 years (pre-SRAM).
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
3 Spidersilk Net
2 Bone Saw
4 Mox Opal
Creatures (12)
4 Artificer's Assistant
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
4 Puresteel Paladin
Staple Spells (7)
4 Retract
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Grapeshot
1 Noxious Revival
2 Swan Song
1 Serum Visions
1 Cranial Plating
1 Echoing Truth
Land (15)
4 Flooded Strand
2 Arid Mesa
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Plains
1 Island
3 Bastion Inventor
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Rest in Peace
1 Echoing Truth
1 Metallic Rebuke
1 Wear // Tear
Today was very hit and miss - sadly! In the end, I went 3-3 then dropped. I did however really feel for the first time in a long time that this deck has the potential to do very well in a major tournament. The bird enables you to keep a far greater degree of starting hands than you were able to do so previously. Anyways, I made brief notes on today and the blow by blow account of how I faired is as follows:
Match 1: LOSS 0-2 to Jeskai Control
Game 1- opponent was on the play I realized instantly he was on a URx variant and as such had counters & bolt in his list. To that end, I held up Paladin and Equipment awaiting for my opponent to tap out. When he eventually tapped out, I cast Paladin + 3 Equipment and Retract off of Opal but eventually whiffed allowing the opponent to beat me down with Colonnade and Snapcaster over a few turns.
Game 2- I board in 2 Rest in Peace, 1 Echoing Truth, 1 Metallic Rebuke, 2 Ghirapur Aether Grid. I manage to resolve an Aether Grid and start getting to work but unfortunately my opponent plays Damping Sphere 2 turns on the bounce before bouncing my Aether Grid and smashing me with Collonade again. Counterspells prevent me from regaining any momentum.
Match 2: LOSS 0-2 to Humans
Game 1- With Opponent on the play I kept a Dubious 6. He Resolves Thalia, Guardian of Thraben T2 then casts a Kitesail Freebooter T3. These threats coupled with his Champion of the Parish on the board lead me to scooping to the Freebooter which I still felt was the correct play. At this stage, my opponent still has no idea what I am on other than a WUx deck.
Game 2- No Land lead me Mulliganing to 4. My opponent has me down to 6 life on T3 and is able to deal me lethal in his T4. To that end, I am forced into trying to go off with Sram plus 2 Equipment on my T4, I whiff, and scoop.
Match 3: WIN 2-1 vs TRON
Game 1- Opponent on the play, I have an excellent starting hand of Bird, Palladin and 2 Equipment, 2 Land and an Opal (Pretty much the nuts). T1 he plays Power Plant and Map. T2 he plays Mine. So I am forced to attempt to go off on my T2 knowing he will have TRON online next turn. Despite drawing a third equipment Bird+Paladin and 3 Equipment all whiff! Opponent plays Karn to take paladin next turn and then Ugin on T4 - and that's all they wrote.
Game 2- Can't remember the full ins and outs but I keep a decent hand and Combo off T3 or 4 for the win. (First successful combo of the day!)
Game 3- Opponent thankfully does get TRON online until T5! Which was a huge sigh of relief as my opening hand had been quite poor! I resolve a paladin T4, which he dismembers before I can draw of an equipment. His T4 he plays Karn and exiles my second land. Things are looking bleak, thankfully I have 2 retract, grapeshot, 1 Opal and 1 Equipment in hand. On the board, I have 1 Opal and 2 equipment. I manage to enough storm without draws to resolve grapeshot for the win.
Match 4: WIN 2-1 vs UR Something? (It ran Dynavolt Tower and Chandra, the Firebrand... along with your usual smattering of Snapcasters, bolts and counters - weird)
Game 1 - It becomes apparent quite quickly that my opponent is pretty inexperienced, so I sit back and wait for him to tap out which he does. I combo with 3 Equipment with a Bird and Sram on board. Waited until T5.
Game 2 - I am forced to counter a Blood Moon with Swan Song during his T3. I try and go off on my T3 with Paladin and 3 Equipment. I whiff and he proceeds to kill me over a few turns using multiple bolts, snapcaster, and that Swan!
Game 3 - Really quick game. He tapped out on T3 and I combo off for the win on my T4.
Game 5: WIN 2-0 vs UR Storm
Match 1 - Opponent reads my deck as UW control and digs hard T1 and T2. With him tapped out on T2, I combo off for the win on T3.
Match 2 - I keep one of my most unusual hands ... 2 Opal, Bird, Paladin, Retract, Swansong, Equipment. T1 I draw an Equipment and play an Opal. T2 I draw a land and resolve bird and paladin. I attempt to combo off and get storm to lethal but can't draw the extra opals needed to cast grapeshot. T3 he plays Baral into Gifts, which I counter with Swan Song. My T3 I hard cast Leyline of Sanctity. T4 he resolves a Goblin. My T4 I get, with help from my opponent, storm to 4 which I use to kill Goblin and Baral in second main after he blocks my paladin with his Baral during the combat step. After I cast RiP on T5 my opponent eventually scoops when I start to go off on T6.
Game 6: LOSS 1-2 vs Ad Nauseum
This match was all done and dusted quite quickly - whoever had it - Had it!
Game 1 - I combo off T3
Game 2 - He combos off T4
Game 3 - He combos off T4
Hopefully, this is useful for the community. I intend to Jam Cheeri0s for the rest on the SCG Modern series that are local to Baltimore (hopefully with better results). This is my first-time match reporting, I will take more notes in future tournaments so I can capture more of what happens in my matches.
Keep on Combo-ing!
VSV
Two words Dark Depths ...
Still tweaking the mechanics, but solemnity adds DD combo to Enchantress! Lets get brewing, I have a feeling that this deck can easily become very competitive with very little effort using the DD combo.
http://f2fseries.facetofacegames.com/facetofacegames-com-toronto-open-coverage-february-4th-2017/
Erayo is situationally good; I've ran her in side and main and now dropped her. Against any of the tribal decks she is often a waste as they play Cavern and against BG/BGx again she sttuggles to Abrupt Decay.
Sadly Eldrazi is firmly in the Meta with the Merfolk/Elves/Humans rare but still appearing every so often. BG/BGx is now everywhere, Fatal Push has got people excited about playing it.
So IMO she is largely ineffective at the moment!
So as I mentioned the other day I have decided to add a fourth colour - Black! Firstly, a thank you to those who replied to me with the deck suggestions. The ones I've added to the list are:
Fatal Push: This is the card that has drawn me to the colour in the first place, it is significantly better (IMO) than any of the White 1 CMC removal spells as it has no upside for the opponent. Additionally, with 8 fetches, 3/4 repeals and 4 retract more often than not we are using this to remove a 4 CMC creature. It hits main haters - Eidolon x 2 & Thalia.
Battle at the Bridge: I believe Fatal Push at instant speed is better but the key to this card is the life gain. Which can buy he deck extra turns needed to win out.
Glaze Fiend: I really like this card; whilst it provides a similar win method to Grapeshot which is a downside the fact that it flies often gets the damage through. Also gives your opponent something else to focus his removal spells on beyond the cantrip brothers.
Kambal, Consul of Allocation: I included this card as part of my mirror breaker tech but once he as a shield on he is extremely against any of the burn variants.
So without further ado I present Fiendish Equipment! Still tweaking sideboard and trying to figure out the best 6/7 Metallic Rebuke, Fatal Push, Battle at the Bridge combination to run. Also contemplating dropping to 13 land. As ever, constructive feedback welcome.
Artifacts 20
4 Mox Opal
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
2 Spidersilk Net
2 Bone Saw
Creatures 10
4 Puresteel Paladin
3 Sram, Senior Edificer
2 Glaze Fiend
1 Monastery Mentor
Land 14
4 Flooded Strand
4 Arid Mesa
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Island
4 Retract
3 Repeal
3 Metallic Rebuke
2 Fatal Push
1 Battle at the Bridge
1 Grapeshot
1 Noxious Revival
Enchantments 1
1 Mass Hysteria
2 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
4 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear // Tear
3 Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Paradoxical Outcome
Edit: Have now realised Glaze Fiend gets hit by retract