Yesterday I won game 3 with 1/9 bird beating down a Bant creature deck, he topdecked a LOT of lands but so did I. He couldnt even get through with loxodn smiter exhanted with 2 rancors! Thats hilarous. Drew Bone Saw and raised the Clock, as well as cranial on top, but would preferred sigil just because it is cluny maindeck g1 for combo, sigil is to be preffered. But cranial in sb would be nice.
For a coco package you need at least 6 1-drop mana producers for 20 lands, but i'd still suggest 21 lands for more consistency
I used to run it back in the day with boggart ram-gang and eternal witness and gw stompy coco
She's great against control and combos of the game goes long. CB is great and discard too but nowhere near as powerful and works against leylines and bogles. Runed halo is a sb card that only some favor to run. Def right going up to 2 lilis. we have enough token generators anyway to protect her
Questions is how many cheeri0s can we shave of for scries and draws? Not too many. Trying 18 with 3 birds, 4 sv and 2 repeals. Then there are no slots left. How do we value 1 cheer0is vs a repeal for instance? I know there was some guy doing extensive calculations via some sort of program to see how the win rate affected us and chance of fizzling going of t2, t3 and so forth.
Is damnation/wrath better than slaughter the strong? Trying to think of situations where slaughter can be more beneficial to our opponents, like humans or elves?
Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass? Needle doesn't work around chalice on 1 but on the other hand is easier on the mana and with 6-8 discards spell we often get to see their hand anyway, whereas spyglass allow to peek once more and works better against chalice
Also the basic land count is maybe too low. I probably need at least a second swamp.
Also I need a third brutality but for budget reasons I can't play more than 2 at the moment.
You really should play 23, since you still need to be able to hit 3 drops on curve, but if you'll play more cards with 4cmc 24 lands will be more correct. 22 is way too low. add that 4rth courtyard also
I agree, I remembered why I played outcome earlier stages, because of Jund, and now that deck is back I really missad P.outcome so took out the sideboard Leave for it.
Traxos cost 4, only gives mana in the scenario we have both mantle and traxos on bf - but to even get that we need to have lots of cheerios in hand or a draw engine to get more. And if then, what to use the mana for? Banefire? I rather have 1 valduk in the sb together with ghirapur aether grid, but still doubt he's good enough Since we need puresteel to be efficient
I'd like to add a 3rd AA but is it really worth shaving the 19th cheerio? Might be, how much of a difference does it do for win ratio? So far it really helped me a lot during combo to win some games on turn 2.
It seems it's okay to drop Spectral procession in this meta reading through the latest 10 pages or so, I've been running 3 but I will drop them and instead add extra; +1 Lili, +2 brutality
Also removed -1 zealous, -1 cast out, -1 Secure the wastes for 2 Legion's Landing and 2nd Start/Finish
I really liked to run Runed Halo naming Death shadow, valakut, primeval Titan, slippery boogle etc. Been a while since I played BW Tokens so can't say how relevant it is.
Is Lost legacy not necessary due to all hand disruptions? It can also help like runed halo but instead more proactively but does nothing when a creature is on the field already
People nowadays seems to be playing boardwipes, I've not been running any before but instead 1-2 zealous, I take it you run either those or boardwipes?
I can really say that Artificer's Assistant is an amazing card! Helps before, under a combo and is easy to cast if you draw into it under combo. So much better than the 2 kingpins I've been running before.
Regarding Paradoxical Outcome I tend to prefer Leave // Chance, easier on the mana, Leave is an instant and has utility, can save our dudes or against artifact destruction or hate like Kataki. Chance is not that bad either due I have rarely used it, but can help dump excess Sram's, lands, Serums or cheeri0s.
Gemstone Mine over Seachrome Coast due to some matches dragging out we need all our mana as it etb is my expiernce.
+1 from me too
I've been testing traditional with 4 retract and 4 serums, and also 2 contraband kingpin, 1 nox and 1 grapeshoot, with 1 leave//chance and 1 claim//fame, plus 1 leave in the sb.
claim only being 1 mana and it's great against push/bolt/discard spells. "leave" as a save spell requires to be able to have 4 mana to both deploy draw engine and to be able to save it. But I like how flexible "leave" is to return all your artifacts against kataki in upkeep when failing to combo of, or to combo of again, however 1 vs 2 mana is quite a lot when playing cheeri0s, why retract is so good. Very seldom I got the chance to use the "fame" side but when I got it's been good.
I like bastion inventor and could switch out kingpin for those or have in sb together with cranial, it is a good backup plan.
Trying out 2 hope of ghirapur in the sb right now, not had the option to see them in action yet. I like the thought to be able to fly in with cranial, since bastion can be blocked lacking evasion.
In game 1 I prefer to fully focus on the combo, so regarding your deck I'd like to side out bastion to have 3 more cheerios, spidersilk likely. remove lightning greaves for maybe 2 pacts of negotiation since your version is more aggressive.
I used to run it back in the day with boggart ram-gang and eternal witness and gw stompy coco
Paradoxical as well as aether grid are for mid-range decks, such running hand disruption, removal and lilianas and overall Grundy games
Do people think it's better to run runed halo, lost legacy or surgical extraction? Maybe a mix?
Is damnation/wrath better than slaughter the strong? Trying to think of situations where slaughter can be more beneficial to our opponents, like humans or elves?
Pithing Needle or Sorcerous Spyglass? Needle doesn't work around chalice on 1 but on the other hand is easier on the mana and with 6-8 discards spell we often get to see their hand anyway, whereas spyglass allow to peek once more and works better against chalice
You really should play 23, since you still need to be able to hit 3 drops on curve, but if you'll play more cards with 4cmc 24 lands will be more correct. 22 is way too low. add that 4rth courtyard also
Traxos cost 4, only gives mana in the scenario we have both mantle and traxos on bf - but to even get that we need to have lots of cheerios in hand or a draw engine to get more. And if then, what to use the mana for? Banefire? I rather have 1 valduk in the sb together with ghirapur aether grid, but still doubt he's good enough Since we need puresteel to be efficient
The same way we survive the Eidolons, Leyline or Chalice - Echoing Truth or destruction a la Fragmentize, Disenchant, Wear/Tear or Hurkyl's
1 Field of Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
2 Flooded Strand
2 Shambling Vent
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Spells
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
4 Intangible Virtue
2 Raise the Alarm
2 Start // Finish
4 Lingering Souls
2 Legion's Landing
3 Bitterblossom
It seems it's okay to drop Spectral procession in this meta reading through the latest 10 pages or so, I've been running 3 but I will drop them and instead add extra; +1 Lili, +2 brutality
Also removed -1 zealous, -1 cast out, -1 Secure the wastes for 2 Legion's Landing and 2nd Start/Finish
So I'm not sure how to configure my sideboard
What I will have is:
And these are what I'm considering:
0-1 Sorcerous Spyglass
0-2 Runed Halo
0-2 Zealous Persecution
0-2 Lost Legacy
0-2 Auriok Champion
0-2 Slaughter the Strong
0-2 Damnation
0-2 Wrath of God
+ 0-1 Surgical Extraction
I really liked to run Runed Halo naming Death shadow, valakut, primeval Titan, slippery boogle etc. Been a while since I played BW Tokens so can't say how relevant it is.
Is Lost legacy not necessary due to all hand disruptions? It can also help like runed halo but instead more proactively but does nothing when a creature is on the field already
People nowadays seems to be playing boardwipes, I've not been running any before but instead 1-2 zealous, I take it you run either those or boardwipes?
Any suggestions what to add to my SB?
2 Plains
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
2 Gemstone Mine
2 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Flooded Strand
Creatures:
4 Puresteel Paladin
4 Sram, Senior Edificer
2 Artificer's Assistant
4 Serum Visions
1 Noxious Revival
1 Leave // Chance
1 Repeal
4 Retract
4 Mox Opal
1 Grapeshot
Cheeri0s:
4 Accorder's Shield
4 Cathar's Shield
4 Paradise Mantle
3 Sigil of Distinction
4 Spidersilk Net
1 Noxious Revival
1 Claim // Fame
1 Hurkyl's Recall
2 Echoing Truth
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Path to Exile
1 Wear/Tear
1 Fragmentize
2 Disenchant
3 Silence
I can really say that Artificer's Assistant is an amazing card! Helps before, under a combo and is easy to cast if you draw into it under combo. So much better than the 2 kingpins I've been running before.
Regarding Paradoxical Outcome I tend to prefer Leave // Chance, easier on the mana, Leave is an instant and has utility, can save our dudes or against artifact destruction or hate like Kataki. Chance is not that bad either due I have rarely used it, but can help dump excess Sram's, lands, Serums or cheeri0s.
Gemstone Mine over Seachrome Coast due to some matches dragging out we need all our mana as it etb is my expiernce.
Damping Sphere
2
Artifact
If a land is tapped for two or more mana, it produces C instead of any other type and amount.
Each spell a player casts costs 1 more to cast for each other spell that player has cast this turn.
I've been testing traditional with 4 retract and 4 serums, and also 2 contraband kingpin, 1 nox and 1 grapeshoot, with 1 leave//chance and 1 claim//fame, plus 1 leave in the sb.
claim only being 1 mana and it's great against push/bolt/discard spells. "leave" as a save spell requires to be able to have 4 mana to both deploy draw engine and to be able to save it. But I like how flexible "leave" is to return all your artifacts against kataki in upkeep when failing to combo of, or to combo of again, however 1 vs 2 mana is quite a lot when playing cheeri0s, why retract is so good. Very seldom I got the chance to use the "fame" side but when I got it's been good.
I like bastion inventor and could switch out kingpin for those or have in sb together with cranial, it is a good backup plan.
Trying out 2 hope of ghirapur in the sb right now, not had the option to see them in action yet. I like the thought to be able to fly in with cranial, since bastion can be blocked lacking evasion.
In game 1 I prefer to fully focus on the combo, so regarding your deck I'd like to side out bastion to have 3 more cheerios, spidersilk likely. remove lightning greaves for maybe 2 pacts of negotiation since your version is more aggressive.