Ok, so we can all assume that you want to make one of the emblems as soon as possible. This requires surviving two of each of our opponents turns without damage. The first turn we have a Kenrith on the table is important as we need to have a way of protecting them after spending 6 mana to cast them. The second turn is easier to survive as we have access to all our mana to use on protection.
The point with Disrupt Decorum was that while it protects your walkers for a turn, it can't really do it the turn you play that planeswalker and you want as many cards that can to ensure you can pull it off. You'd need 10 mana to cast Will/Rowan and Disrupt Decorum (assuming it's their first cast). If you have an instant that can protect them for a turn, then you can play it in the end step before your turn in which you cast Will/Rowan effectively letting you cast it for free at the cost of your previous turn.
I'm planning on building Windgrace too but not finished the deck yet.
I'd want more utility lands than you currently have. Things like Mortuary Mire are good as they keep your budget down and you can get their effect at random points in the game thanks to Crop Rotation. Cards with enter the battlefield abilities are also abusable with Dust Bowl and Windgrace's middle ability.
If you've got a bigger budget then you could include things like Volrath's Stronghold as the recursion piece in the deck.
I like Doomsday (who doesn't right?) But, sometimes thinking of the right pile in an awkward situation can be exhausting and pretty hard when you're in-game and under pressure. Sometimes in the heat of the moment, especially when you've been disrupted and lost key combo cards, it's difficult to come up with a winning combo and a way to draw into it. Here's where Grenzo, Dungeon Warden comes in.
After resolving Doomsday with Grenzo on the battlefield, you only need 2 mana to begin playing out your combo pile. A large group of creatures that are part of infinite combos have <=2 power (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Murderous Redcap)so you don't even need to worry about paying extra mana into Grenzo to boost his power.
Kiki Conscripts
???
Zealous Conscripts
Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider
Kiki-Jiki
Priest of Gix/Priest of Urabrask
Infinite Redcap
Metallic Mimic
Murderous Redcap
Skirk Prospector
Kiki-Jiki
Priest of Gix/Priest of Urabrask
I intend to try and win with one of these, or a slight variation (If you lose Kiki then he can be replaced in the pile by the other Priest and one additional starting mana). I don't really want to include Worldgorger Dragon/Animate Dead as I should be able to win quite quickly without them, plus Worldgorger can really mess up Ad Nauseam maths.
Recoup can be used repeatedly to fight through any disruption I'm not prepared for.
Are there any suggestions for other creatures that can fit in with this template that can be part of one of these combos or maybe make another infinite game winning combo?
Commander Anthology II has just released last week and includes the mono red Daretti deck from 2014. If you could find someone who'd sell you that it's a great place to start.
I think the blue deck you mentioned is a perfect goofy thing to fit in. ANd hey, maybe your going to be one of the only people to ever win with the sleaper OP Homarid Spawning Bed.
Don't go forgetting Tidal Influence to let the table know when you're gonna swing at them.
I had thought of doing some generic tribal that wasn’t anything special. Something like mono blue crab tribal with Ultimus in the command zone, all the relevant colour crabs, some changelings and tribal anthem artifacts.
I did want to do Najeela, but with legendary warrior tribal. It’d definitely not synergise well but not sure how strong it’d actually be.
I do have a Phelddagrif sat in a pile somewhere, might be fun to just confuse them with some string pulling lol Plus, you can’t really get mad at the pink hippo.
Yeah, Lazav could work. I'd be paying things that synergise anyway like some targeted removal.
Think I'd have to keep a lid on the mill stuff, they have a philosophy (at least I think that's what it is) that they don't like to spend too much money on singles so there wouldn't be any Eldrazi Titans to counteract the mill. Would have to hold back on things like Traumatize and Nemesis of Reason, but smaller things like Manic Scribe and Duskmantle Guildmage should be fine.
I think maybe if I put a restriction on myself like 'no rares/mythics' and 'no mana rocks' it would at least make me feel better about playing the deck and make it a more interesting process for me.
So, recently I moved house (about 200 miles) and got a new playgroup at the local lgs. I didn't know the power level of the new group so I went in with my most casual deck, Djeru, With Eyes Open (superfriends token swarm).
After one game I was invited to another table to join a game that was about to start along with one of the players from the first game. The guy I'd just played against looked panicked and told the rest of the table that he didn't want to play another game with me as I was a competitive player.
While this is true (at my old lgs I played Thrasios+Tymna DoomTide and Kess Storm) I hadn't done anything remotely 'competitive'. I'd made 18 tokens from Elspeth, Sun's Champion and then made her emblem and took out my two opponents in two turns of combat. All the other guy did was spend 8 turns outlasting a Herald of Anafenza.
My problem is this, I need a deck with the following characteristics:
1. Doesn't try to win
2. Doesn't use expensive cards like ABUR duals/Mana Crypt/Force of Will
3. Has enough interactions in the deck that I can still feel like I'm playing the game with no endgame.
Was thinking something like Rowan Kenrith and trying to avoid making the emblem go infinite. Something similar to Clones.dec could be a thing as it would scale with my opponents but I really don't want it to be that.
The plan was to use Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh as the commander to utilise his -4 to shoot for 7 as either a way to knock someone out of the game before I can combo or as an alternate wincon. Animation Module also works as prolferation for Bolas.
Look into it further as there was something to do with triggers and the order of cards in your library while you’re still searching.
The point with Disrupt Decorum was that while it protects your walkers for a turn, it can't really do it the turn you play that planeswalker and you want as many cards that can to ensure you can pull it off. You'd need 10 mana to cast Will/Rowan and Disrupt Decorum (assuming it's their first cast). If you have an instant that can protect them for a turn, then you can play it in the end step before your turn in which you cast Will/Rowan effectively letting you cast it for free at the cost of your previous turn.
I'd want more utility lands than you currently have. Things like Mortuary Mire are good as they keep your budget down and you can get their effect at random points in the game thanks to Crop Rotation. Cards with enter the battlefield abilities are also abusable with Dust Bowl and Windgrace's middle ability.
If you've got a bigger budget then you could include things like Volrath's Stronghold as the recursion piece in the deck.
After resolving Doomsday with Grenzo on the battlefield, you only need 2 mana to begin playing out your combo pile. A large group of creatures that are part of infinite combos have <=2 power (Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Murderous Redcap)so you don't even need to worry about paying extra mana into Grenzo to boost his power.
Here's what I have so far:
Blood Pet, Overeager Apprentice, Priest of Gix, Priest of Urabrask, Skirk Prospector
These all add mana to help get through the rest of the pile. Skirk Prospector can be used as a free sacrifice outlet for Murderous Redcap.
Goblin Sledder and Mogg Raider
These can pump Grenzo if you need to use a creature with power greater than 2.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Zealous Conscripts
Metallic Mimic, Murderous Redcap + Sac outlet
Infinite combos; Kiki can also be used in piles to copy the Priests for more mana
Example Piles (from top card to bottom)
Kiki Conscripts
???
Zealous Conscripts
Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider
Kiki-Jiki
Priest of Gix/Priest of Urabrask
Infinite Redcap
Metallic Mimic
Murderous Redcap
Skirk Prospector
Kiki-Jiki
Priest of Gix/Priest of Urabrask
I intend to try and win with one of these, or a slight variation (If you lose Kiki then he can be replaced in the pile by the other Priest and one additional starting mana). I don't really want to include Worldgorger Dragon/Animate Dead as I should be able to win quite quickly without them, plus Worldgorger can really mess up Ad Nauseam maths.
The rest of the deck will be fast mana (Mana Crypt, Lion's Eye Diamond, Mox Diamond, Ancient Tomb, Simian Spirit Guide, Rituals, Rain of Filth, etc), tutors (Demonic Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, Imperial Seal, etc) and control (Red Elemental Blast, Fire Covenant, etc).
Recoup can be used repeatedly to fight through any disruption I'm not prepared for.
Are there any suggestions for other creatures that can fit in with this template that can be part of one of these combos or maybe make another infinite game winning combo?
Here's the list https://magic.wizards.com/en/products/card-set-archive/commander-2014/built-from-scratch
Don't go forgetting Tidal Influence to let the table know when you're gonna swing at them.
I had thought of doing some generic tribal that wasn’t anything special. Something like mono blue crab tribal with Ultimus in the command zone, all the relevant colour crabs, some changelings and tribal anthem artifacts.
I did want to do Najeela, but with legendary warrior tribal. It’d definitely not synergise well but not sure how strong it’d actually be.
I do have a Phelddagrif sat in a pile somewhere, might be fun to just confuse them with some string pulling lol Plus, you can’t really get mad at the pink hippo.
Think I'd have to keep a lid on the mill stuff, they have a philosophy (at least I think that's what it is) that they don't like to spend too much money on singles so there wouldn't be any Eldrazi Titans to counteract the mill. Would have to hold back on things like Traumatize and Nemesis of Reason, but smaller things like Manic Scribe and Duskmantle Guildmage should be fine.
I think maybe if I put a restriction on myself like 'no rares/mythics' and 'no mana rocks' it would at least make me feel better about playing the deck and make it a more interesting process for me.
After one game I was invited to another table to join a game that was about to start along with one of the players from the first game. The guy I'd just played against looked panicked and told the rest of the table that he didn't want to play another game with me as I was a competitive player.
While this is true (at my old lgs I played Thrasios+Tymna DoomTide and Kess Storm) I hadn't done anything remotely 'competitive'. I'd made 18 tokens from Elspeth, Sun's Champion and then made her emblem and took out my two opponents in two turns of combat. All the other guy did was spend 8 turns outlasting a Herald of Anafenza.
My problem is this, I need a deck with the following characteristics:
1. Doesn't try to win
2. Doesn't use expensive cards like ABUR duals/Mana Crypt/Force of Will
3. Has enough interactions in the deck that I can still feel like I'm playing the game with no endgame.
If it helps, the other decks in the new group that I've seen are:
Daretti, Scrap Savant - loops artifacts for fun.
Ayli, Eternal Pilgrim - cleric tribal/lifegain.
Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa + Ravos, Soultender - small unblockable guys (til he plays too many anthems).
Firesong and Sunspeaker - boros goodstuff?
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - superfriends + voltron.
Verdeloth the Ancient - token swarm
Ishkanah, Grafwidow - spider tribal.
Was thinking something like Rowan Kenrith and trying to avoid making the emblem go infinite. Something similar to Clones.dec could be a thing as it would scale with my opponents but I really don't want it to be that.
1 Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh
Creature
1 Captain Lannery Storm
1 Contraband Kingpin
1 Defiant Salvager
1 Dire Fleet Hoarder
1 Gleaming Barrier
1 Marionette Master
1 Merchant’s Dockhand
1 Pitiless Plunderer
1 Quicksmith Genius
1 Reckless Fireweaver
1 Ruthless Knave
1 Sailor of Means
1 Scrap Trawler
1 Scrapheap Scrounger
1 Workshop Assistant
1 Animation Module
1 Cultivator’s Caravan
1 Inspiring Statuary
1 Metalspinner’s Puzzlenot
1 Prying Blade
1 Renegade Map
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Sunset Pyramid
1 Treasure Map
Enchantment
1 Revel in Riches
1 Storm the Vault
Instant/Sorcery
1 Costly Plunder
1 Depths of Desire
1 Horns***gle
1 Pirate’s Prize
1 Resourceful Return
1 Reverse Engineer
1 Whir of Invention
1 Tezzeret the Schemer
1 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Land
1 Aether Hub
1 Arch of Orazca
1 Canyon Slough
1 Crypt of the Eternals
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolvong Wilds
1 Fetid Pools
1 Inventors’ Fair
1 Unclaimed Territory
14x Basics
I was thinking about trying to assemble the Pitiless Plunderer, Defiant Salvager and Animation Module infinite loop alongside Marionette Master or Reckless Fireweaver for the win.
The plan was to use Nicol Bolas, God-Pharaoh as the commander to utilise his -4 to shoot for 7 as either a way to knock someone out of the game before I can combo or as an alternate wincon. Animation Module also works as prolferation for Bolas.
As for the rest of the deck, I will include some general artifact recursion in Scrap Trawler, Workshop Assistant and Scrapheap Scrounger alongside some card draw like Costly Plunder, Pirate's Prize and Reverse Engineer. Merchant's Dockhand, Quicksmith Genius and Contraband Kingpin also help here.
Inspiring Statuary helps speed things up so I may as well include some other cheap guys or spells that make treasure.
Any thoughts on this are welcome. Is assembling a 4 card combo too much or do we not know enough about the format yet?
Naru Meha, Master Wizard goes infinite with Ghostly Flicker
Squee, the Immortal goes infinite with Food Chain