I get the creature+removal argument, but it's not *just* a gift-basket. Assuming you haven't been able to swing more than a couple points of dam through, you sac 3 non-flying tokens for a 7/6 AND them losing 7-10 life AND play Virtue (or another RtA, etc) AND swing for 3-6 in the air.
It’s an interesting card for us but I’m trying to envisage which matchups we want this effect and whether or not the effect does what we need, especially being sorcery speed.
I feel like it’s a real consideration for the Eldrazi matchup where it gets round Reality Smasher’s targeting restrictions but it still gives your opponent the option to keep any Displacers/TKS they have. You’d need to follow this wipe up with a targeted removal to get rid of whatever they keep. At this point we may as well wrath the board? I guess we get to keep up to 4 tokens though...
This should also work well against merfolk. Against other go-wides like elves and affinity... I don’t think this works, at least not as well as Zealous Persecution, correct me if I’m wrong.
Keeping the tokens is nice to envision, though I only have a budget version atm and haven't played it in ages, so I can't comment on the current, general meta. I could see it as a SB option for Eldrazi, as you said, but I'm not sure. It might have better luck in a Frontier token brew.
Holy crap, you're right on Cascading Cataracts! I don't know how I overlooked that. Ulamog is definitely a problem, though. I never pretended that this would be a great deck -- I just want it be the greatest awaken deck I can make it. Marvel isn't gonna be the best match-up, esp game 1.
I think my creature base is spread a little too thin (ie-unpredictable) and Always Watching is more of a maybeboard than sideboard, but other than that, I think green is a good add. I thought about red for Dragonmaster Outcast and Embodiment of Fury, but it didn't seem worth it either instead of or in addition to green.
Why are you playing your bounce spells when Crush is going to bounce them in the first place? You don't want to be playing it earlier, you're trying to cast it for the surge cost to get the octopus with the spell for value.
Sorry, that was a miscommunication. I might be bouncing a spell with Unsubstantiate (ideally for 1 w/Baral), or blinking/Gifting a land, then Crush to bounce their stuff, then swing with the land.
Think of it this way, Baral sees no play in blue decks in spell heavy decks.
Fair, but the only thing that sees play now is Mardu Vehicles haha. It also occurs to me that Baral reduces Awaken costs, so between that newfound realization and the surge cost of Crush, he doesn't look half-bad. Maybe just fewer than I have.
You still need removal in the main because Crush can't be the only thing to rely on. Gift of Tusks is bad in a sense that it doesn't kill a target, not to mention it doesn't match up well against any of your creatures. Blessed Alliance, Immolating Glare, Cast Out, etc.
I have all those in my maybe/sideboard list, so I hear that. What would you drop for more removal? Besides Baral.
Linvala seems a bit high for the curve (but she's very blinkable), but I was thinking about keeping ~2 Blessed Alliance. Scout was for blink more than blink was for him, though I agree that there's gotta be a better choice haha maybe just good ol' Thalia, Heretic Cathar?
Finally, let's say that the only essential elements to the deck are Wall and Crush, and the rest is ultimately negotiable. Would you add Red or Green, maybe?
Agreed on lands, though I'm not convinced Baral is as bad as you say. One thing he helps with is getting Crush of Tentacles to resolve sooner, as I try to counter/bounce their spells/creatures before that. Some get through; I use Crush in place of Planar Outburst because it bounces all their stuff, and I don't mind having to recast Wall, etc. I actually had Outburst in there originally.
Agreed on card draw, that's something I've been thinking about adding more of, as I empty the hand quickly.
I'm not sure I agreed with the notion that there isn't enough removal. I think there's something like 21 spells that do some kind of counter or removal. Cast Out, et al, are certainly on my maybe/sideboard, but predominantly because I opted to go for lots of inst/sorcs (and Baral, lol).
And as far as "why even blink?", I guess the real reason is because that's how the deck originated, and I want to hit you with land creatures. Unfortunately, the Awaken mechanic itself is too slow, even with Baral's help, imo.
I had forgotten entirely about Eldrazi Displacer! It remains difficult to feel hype about that, though, when until recently, the notorious C.A.T. would've been perfect.
I have Lantern Scout as another target to blink, since I'm stubborn about keeping that aspect in. It's also an Ally, so synergizes with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, but that's just a nice bonus. Alternatively, in that slot, I could put Fairgrounds Warden or Deadeye Harpooner. I dropped Baral down to 2x, but I'm still leaning towards 3.
My friend and I had tried Bant Awakening! a while back and I thought I'd give it another shot. This version is as much flicker control as it is land creatures now. I'm afraid it might be all over the place, but it's play-testing pretty well.
What changes would you recommend, either in general or specifically. I'm more interested in having a competent, interesting homebrew than something straight off mtgtop8, so please keep that in mind!
Aim: As said earlier, this began as a Bant Awaken! deck with BfZ and I just revisited it this afternoon. It's still built with land creatures in mind but without Awaken, or even G.
But since I'm flickering, I might has well get a little mileage out of it. I have 4x Spell Queller already, and beyond being another promising target for Essence Flux, it serves three functions: flying, +body, and control.
Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper doesn't do enough the turn he enters, and that's a problem, but with the number of inst/sorcs I use, he could trigger several times the next turn.
Gift of Tusks is a gem I forgot about, and can be used offensively -- or to make my land creatures base 3/3 instead of 0/0. It allows me to block safely with Wall. Probably one I would consider dropping, but I want to give it a chance.
The control shell is pretty straightforward. The deck seems to empty its hand quickly, so the draws off extra Censor are nice. Still might need more draw. Blessed Alliance is a candidate for sideboarding, but I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.
My sweeper is Crush of Tentacles. Because it doesn't bounce lands, it acts as an asymmetrical board-wipe if I have land creatures when it hits. And an Octopus! Can be summoned quicker with Baral, and can trigger Noyan.
I have 24 inst/sorcs, so I decided to try and capitalize on that with Baral, Chief of Compliance. His synergy with counters in particular was not actually a motivator, but does make me want to err on the side of too many counterspells. His effect is simple, but speeds up my tempo quite a bit.
I think I have my deck set. Sideboard seems tough. Yahenni's Expertise looks really good. We can board wipe and cast Souls (or LotV) and reset. Seems great in a mirror match or some Abzan decks and such.
What are we for sure putting in otherwise?
Sram's Expertise gets us 3 more tokens, though, without risking wiping our own.
3 tokens (w/out flying)+ a free up-to-3cmc spell seems like it deserves consideration, or at least a solid denouncement before dismissing it. Though, hard to imagine ever being happy to get that instead of Sorin.
My playgroup made our own version of pauper edh without knowledge of forums like this. Our rules
60 card singleton
uncommon/common general (though we all picked uncommon)
all commons for the rest (though we were moving towards allowing uncommons)
30 life
I liked it a great deal -- having 60 cards vs 100 made it feel more flavorful and pauper-y.
I don't know if I believe it's an "awful, awful" format. I like the idea of different commander tiers and so forth -- for instance I can defend playing Anax and Cymede or Radha much easier in 1v1.
I'm asking mostly because I've played a lot of 1v1 commander, but in doing so, a given deck would end up split-tuned between 1v1 and a traditional 4 player pod. Finding the Duel format allowed me to pick a tuning without crossover.
Anyways, the recent duel comm change to 20 life is a big one, not sure how that'll pan out. If no one plays french rules, then tuning a deck for 1v1 is very different.
Does anyone have an idea of what edh tournaments do?
I'm just curious about everyone else's experience. Here at school, the local club plays lots of EDH, and sometimes 1v1, but no one knows about French/Duel, so my duel decks don't get much play (and even more with the change to 20 life)
What's it like for you when it comes to 1v1 matches?
NB: I know there might be variation between using rules and banlists, so I'm just asking about rules in the poll.
I tried looking for your post on Authority, but only found one post wherein you pointed out it was a terrible one to top deck later game. That's a good point, but is topdecking a champion that great either? I'm asking genuinely, as I'm new to BW Tokens and not super familiar of common metas.
Also, you're spot on re: SV vs LOI. I had LOI initially, and with SV, the fact that his +1 lasts until your next turn makes a world of difference (especially with IT on the field)
T1: Legion's Landing
T2: RtA
T3: Spectral Procession
T4: Torgaar (via sac the tokens w/out flying) + Intangible Virtue, swing with 3 flying for 6, putting them to 4.
T5: ideally Sorin? something to win
Keeping the tokens is nice to envision, though I only have a budget version atm and haven't played it in ages, so I can't comment on the current, general meta. I could see it as a SB option for Eldrazi, as you said, but I'm not sure. It might have better luck in a Frontier token brew.
1 Blighted Woodland
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Forest
3 Fortified Village
1 Irrigated Farmland
4 Island
1 Lumbering Falls
1 Plains
4 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
2 Scattered Groves
Planeswalker (1)
1 Kiora, Master of the Depths
2 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Halimar Tidecaller
1 Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper
3 Rishkar, Peema Renegade
2 Sylvan Advocate
3 Wall of Resurgence
Instant (12)
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Blossoming Defense
3 Censor
2 Essence Flux
3 Scatter to the Winds
Sorcery (6)
4 Clutch of Currents
2 Crush of Tentacles
1 Always Watching
2 Authority of the Consuls
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Cast Out
2 Heroic Intervention
2 Negate
2 Spell Queller
1 Splendid Reclamation
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
I think my creature base is spread a little too thin (ie-unpredictable) and Always Watching is more of a maybeboard than sideboard, but other than that, I think green is a good add. I thought about red for Dragonmaster Outcast and Embodiment of Fury, but it didn't seem worth it either instead of or in addition to green.
Sorry, that was a miscommunication. I might be bouncing a spell with Unsubstantiate (ideally for 1 w/Baral), or blinking/Gifting a land, then Crush to bounce their stuff, then swing with the land.
Fair, but the only thing that sees play now is Mardu Vehicles haha. It also occurs to me that Baral reduces Awaken costs, so between that newfound realization and the surge cost of Crush, he doesn't look half-bad. Maybe just fewer than I have.
I have all those in my maybe/sideboard list, so I hear that. What would you drop for more removal? Besides Baral.
Linvala seems a bit high for the curve (but she's very blinkable), but I was thinking about keeping ~2 Blessed Alliance. Scout was for blink more than blink was for him, though I agree that there's gotta be a better choice haha maybe just good ol' Thalia, Heretic Cathar?
Finally, let's say that the only essential elements to the deck are Wall and Crush, and the rest is ultimately negotiable. Would you add Red or Green, maybe?
Agreed on lands, though I'm not convinced Baral is as bad as you say. One thing he helps with is getting Crush of Tentacles to resolve sooner, as I try to counter/bounce their spells/creatures before that. Some get through; I use Crush in place of Planar Outburst because it bounces all their stuff, and I don't mind having to recast Wall, etc. I actually had Outburst in there originally.
Agreed on card draw, that's something I've been thinking about adding more of, as I empty the hand quickly.
I'm not sure I agreed with the notion that there isn't enough removal. I think there's something like 21 spells that do some kind of counter or removal. Cast Out, et al, are certainly on my maybe/sideboard, but predominantly because I opted to go for lots of inst/sorcs (and Baral, lol).
And as far as "why even blink?", I guess the real reason is because that's how the deck originated, and I want to hit you with land creatures. Unfortunately, the Awaken mechanic itself is too slow, even with Baral's help, imo.
I had forgotten entirely about Eldrazi Displacer! It remains difficult to feel hype about that, though, when until recently, the notorious C.A.T. would've been perfect.
Given your feedback, here's an updated list:
4 Censor
3 Disallow
4 Essence Flux
3 Gift of Tusks
2 Negate
4 Unsubstantiate
3 Crush of Tentacles
Creature (13)
2 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Lantern Scout
2 Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper
3 Spell Queller
4 Wall of Resurgence
4 Irrigated Farmland
10 Island
2 Plains
4 Port Town
4 Prairie Stream
I have Lantern Scout as another target to blink, since I'm stubborn about keeping that aspect in. It's also an Ally, so synergizes with Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper, but that's just a nice bonus. Alternatively, in that slot, I could put Fairgrounds Warden or Deadeye Harpooner. I dropped Baral down to 2x, but I'm still leaning towards 3.
What changes would you recommend, either in general or specifically. I'm more interested in having a competent, interesting homebrew than something straight off mtgtop8, so please keep that in mind!
3 Irrigated Farmland
4 Port Town
3 Prairie Stream
9 Island
3 Plains
4 Baral, Chief of Compliance
2 Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper
4 Spell Queller
4 Wall of Resurgence
Spells (24)
2 Blessed Alliance
4 Censor
3 Disallow
4 Essence Flux
3 Gift of Tusks
2 Negate
3 Unsubstantiate
3 Crush of Tentacles
SB: I haven't gotten that far yet, but I'm thinking about Authority of the Consuls.
Aim: As said earlier, this began as a Bant Awaken! deck with BfZ and I just revisited it this afternoon. It's still built with land creatures in mind but without Awaken, or even G.
I want to get as much used out of Wall of Resurgence as I can, namely by boomeranging it with Essence Flux. Unsubstantiate serves a dual role here.
But since I'm flickering, I might has well get a little mileage out of it. I have 4x Spell Queller already, and beyond being another promising target for Essence Flux, it serves three functions: flying, +body, and control.
Noyan Dar, Roil Shaper doesn't do enough the turn he enters, and that's a problem, but with the number of inst/sorcs I use, he could trigger several times the next turn.
Gift of Tusks is a gem I forgot about, and can be used offensively -- or to make my land creatures base 3/3 instead of 0/0. It allows me to block safely with Wall. Probably one I would consider dropping, but I want to give it a chance.
The control shell is pretty straightforward. The deck seems to empty its hand quickly, so the draws off extra Censor are nice. Still might need more draw. Blessed Alliance is a candidate for sideboarding, but I'm not sure what I'd replace it with.
My sweeper is Crush of Tentacles. Because it doesn't bounce lands, it acts as an asymmetrical board-wipe if I have land creatures when it hits. And an Octopus! Can be summoned quicker with Baral, and can trigger Noyan.
I have 24 inst/sorcs, so I decided to try and capitalize on that with Baral, Chief of Compliance. His synergy with counters in particular was not actually a motivator, but does make me want to err on the side of too many counterspells. His effect is simple, but speeds up my tempo quite a bit.
Could really use a Felidar Guardian...
Sram's Expertise gets us 3 more tokens, though, without risking wiping our own.
3 tokens (w/out flying)+ a free up-to-3cmc spell seems like it deserves consideration, or at least a solid denouncement before dismissing it. Though, hard to imagine ever being happy to get that instead of Sorin.
60 card singleton
uncommon/common general (though we all picked uncommon)
all commons for the rest (though we were moving towards allowing uncommons)
30 life
I liked it a great deal -- having 60 cards vs 100 made it feel more flavorful and pauper-y.
I ran Favored Hoplite and Drogskol Captain and loved them
I'm asking mostly because I've played a lot of 1v1 commander, but in doing so, a given deck would end up split-tuned between 1v1 and a traditional 4 player pod. Finding the Duel format allowed me to pick a tuning without crossover.
Anyways, the recent duel comm change to 20 life is a big one, not sure how that'll pan out. If no one plays french rules, then tuning a deck for 1v1 is very different.
Does anyone have an idea of what edh tournaments do?
What's it like for you when it comes to 1v1 matches?
NB: I know there might be variation between using rules and banlists, so I'm just asking about rules in the poll.
Also, you're spot on re: SV vs LOI. I had LOI initially, and with SV, the fact that his +1 lasts until your next turn makes a world of difference (especially with IT on the field)