... You do realize that they are over printing boxes and they could deliver better quality if they cut the run and use better paper and printers instead, right?
And then people complain that stores are charging over MSRP for a Masters set or Unstable. They underprinted the original MM, people *****ed because the packs were too expensive. They overprinted Iconic Masters, people *****ed because the prices on cards tanked. Stores have run out of Unstable, people ***** about not being able to draft it anymore. Wizards runs a second print run of Unstable, people are *****ing because there is going to be too much product. And while sometimes these are different groups of people, there are other times where I have seen the same person complain about both sides of it. WotC, to their credit, is *trying* to respond to what players actually want. It's just that by doing so, they create new unforseen problems. That said, I think a lot of players are getting way too damn entitled with a lot of things involving Masters Sets, and WotC just needs to ignore them. The people on the extreme are too damn demanding, and there is no way to make them happy. The Middle Ground they found with MM1 was pretty much where they needed to be and remain, regardless of those that complained about tanking prices or those that complained about too little product. Perhaps the print run of MM2015, while keeping the style of MM1. Like it or not, they can't just Chronicles out of a Master's set. That's exactly what happened with Iconic Masters. If you ever wonder why the reserved list exists, look no further than IMA. Almost an identical problem (However not quite to the same degree).
I will absolutely admit that they are doing too much auxiliary product; I have no damn clue why they created Explorers of Ixalan. It serves zero purpose, and I would have assumed that they learned their lesson from Arena of the Planeswalkers. I feel the 'Member-Berry crowd with Archenemy and Planechase convinced them that players were willing to buy auxiliary products game-modes, however they should have remembered how ridiculously, incredibly, ludicrously terribly those sold. I also think they are cramming too much draft product in a year, which should be obvious.
The challenger decks are a fine concept, however I think the price point is $5 too high, and they are making 1-2 too many different ones. Event decks, when constructed well, *did* work. Notably, the ones with SFM and GG were actually somewhat reasonable FNM-level decks that could do reasonably powerful things out of the box, and wins some games.
That said, none of this really has anything to do with card quality at all. It seems strange to think, but realize that all of these were made with the concept that they would sell well in mind. They didn't just cut quality of card stock to make room for this crap. The alleged card quality issues are almost assuredly completely divorced from this.
I am by no means giving them a pass on their mistakes; anyone who wants to look into my posting history will see that I have a long and storied history with rallying against WotC's decisions, and harsh criticism (up to and including suggesting some of the R&D team get fired for their idiocy). That said, I am also not just going to join the wank-fest of bemoaning every little thing that comes my way, particularly when the situation is far, far more complicated that people give it credit for.
There are tons of other places wizards of coasts could cut fat, why card quality?
At this point they have little to lose themselves unless there are politics we are not aware of. I'm guessing they are dealing with the latter.
Contracts, legal matterz ,distribution lines, optics. You name it. Let me ask youbsomething: What would publicly happen to a US company outsourcing production to a foreign printing facility instead of remaining in the US, for cost reasons? WotC would get absolutely eviscerated in the current political climate, by the same crowd that follows Rudy and Jeremy no less because WotC isn't supporting US amd local businesses. The cost of a pack has also not gone up pretty much at all, meaning that increased production costs from inflation alone are not being recouped by the margins. Adjusted for inflation, a pack in 1994-2000 should cost $5.25 today. Yet the same crowd that whinges about card quality are also the moaners about pack prjce increases.
WotC is backed into a corner they simply have no outs for given the demands people are making from them. They can't maintain profitability if they keep the prices stagnant while also keeping quality stagnant. Yet the same people bemoan both when they happen. And it is the same group that would bemoan outsourcing.
People whom think this crap is simple are fundamentally wrong. It is not. There are multiple contradictory factors at play, and people want two mutually exclusive outcomes to occur at the same time. It is damn well ridiculous.
I have no idea if Rudy and other social media outlets are being honestly ignorant of this crap or are willfully misleading their audiences for whatever purpose, but this nonsense is truly ridiculous. WotC isn't cutting the quality on cards kust because they can and because they are being evil greedy monsters.
... You do realize that they are over printing boxes and they could deliver better quality if they cut the run and use better paper and printers instead, right?
Or they could restructure like normal companies do.
Clearly the only way a business can improve profits is by cutting quality of product?
You either cut costs of production or increase the price of the product. You would lose your damn mind if WotC increased the price per pack to $5. You are losing yourndamn mind because the qualkty has seemingly gone down. People would lose their damn mind if WotC started outsourcing.
So if peoe don't want to pay more, and are vehememtly agaimst any cost cutting measure in production, them where the hell do you think they are going to make up profitability? Something has to damn well give, and you wanting it all indicates to me you have no bloody clue how capitalistic markets actually work. Which do you wamt? Outsourcing? Higher prices? Decreased quality? You do not get it all.
Downsizing staff? Changing advertisement tactics?
I mean how many times does Wizards have to do gimicky introduction stuff before they quit trying?
Thats why I said spread out accross common and uncommon, more lightning helixs, putrefies and mortifies and less Jaces and voices of resurgence.
We are getting those. There are plenty of Commons and uncommons in standard at that level like Chart a Course and Abrade. Some, like Fatal Push, are even more powerful. Meanwhile, Mortify and Putrefy see zero play and are worth practically nothing. Putrefy didn't even see play in RTR-THS standard.
Lightning Helix isn't too powerful for standard, given Lightning Strike is fine, but there are issues with it other than power level. Burn spells have to be treated differently than regular removal. A deck with 40 Fatal Push is unplayable, but a deck with 40 Lightning Bolt kills on turn 4. Having multiple nearly-identical burn spells in Standard is a bad idea, and Lightning Helix forces players into white-red while Lightning Strike goes in any deck.
Im talking about in the context of the original ravnica block in particular rav-tsp.
A lot of the power and value was in uncommons and commons and just spread out in general.
The only "ancient civilization" plane I remember that was actually destroyed was Amonkhet. Kamigawa and Theros are still very much thriving in the story.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
It isn't really that hard, Romans did a lot of good things, specially in the art, architecture and political departaments, but other than that, they were basically xenophobic people who thought they were better than everyone else.
What's your point? Why does it even matter? Rome had way more ethnicities and cultures under their wing than many countries today or in their whole history. Can you name a culture at the time that was not xhenophobic and what this even means?
It's a pretty simple point really, Paladin said that he believed Wizards wouldn't be able to respectfully depict the Romans therefore he did not wished to see a Roman plane, so i pointed out the fact that Rome was not a complex empire i did so by mentioning 3 of Rome's most important feats, than i mentioned why despite all of that Rome is not that hard to depict based on the fact that 1st: They were extremely xenophobic (im talking ISIS level here) to the point where they would go to a country simply to abolish it's religion(and that is a easy trope to follow you can see that with the vampires of Ixalan or the elves of Fyndhorn), 2nd: they thought they were better than everyone else, which is clearly seen in the fact that they could lesses civilization barbarians (civilizations who did not had a complex language system such as rome) or even slaves (many romans regarded the people of egypt as "slaves"). Again an easy trope to follow, and you can see some of it's traits in the Legion of Dusk (Ixalan), Nicol Bolas, Elves of Lorwyn.
TL:DR Rome did amazing things, but they were not a complex people, therefore they are pretty easy to depict in MTG.
No they really werent xenophobic, they let conquered people lived as they pleased and worshiped as they pleased as long as they didnt revolt.
Gauls and other barbarians were integrated into the empire.
They had trade and peace deals with their neighbors.
Or you know make a good set with lots of high demand cards across uncommon and common which will make people want to buy it which will make its price go up.
"Make a good set" is not a simple task, and having lots of high-demand cards won't make a set good. There's a cap to how valuable a set's cards can be due to basic economics - opening packs can never be profitable, because if it is people will open packs until supply exceeds demand and the card prices drop. You can make a set with too little value certainly, but there's a cap and only the weakest sets fail to reach it.
What's important is spreading the value out. If you don't do that you end up with a single card holding most of the set's value, as with Jace, Vryn's Prodigy or Voice of Resurgence.
Is return to ravnica considered a success by anyone?
The set was. The block overall was weak, with Gatecrash and Dragon's Maze both being bad sets, but Return to Ravnica itself had plenty of good cards (Several of which see play in eternal formats) and was an excellent draft environment. Return to Ravnica was also when MTG saw its playerbase grow the most.
Thats why I said spread out accross common and uncommon, more lightning helixs, putrefies and mortifies and less Jaces and voices of resurgence.
I think people are vastly overreacting here. The reason for the player count dropping is pretty simple: a string of bad standard formats, combined with the faster pace of rotation that's recently been reverted. From RTR to Khans standard wasn't horrible; a few decks dominated but at the FNM level there was plenty of variation and you wouldn't be horribly crushed playing a suboptimal deck. Where things really got bad was Khans-BFZ standard. The combination of the fetchlands with BFZ's duals led to a huge number of 4 color goodstuff decks that were incredibly expensive, and one of the most expensive cards ever in standard: Jace, Vryn's Prodigy peaked at a ridiculous $90. After the fetches rotated out we had an environment that was just mediocre, dominated by a few powerful and expensive cards. Then, Kaladesh block turned out to be a disaster for standard. First one set of bannings, then another after BFZ finally rotated out, and now the format is dominated by 4-color energy decks and Ixalan cards are barely seeing play thanks to a tribal theme not supported by the previous two blocks.
I expect Magic will recover when Dominara is released, for several reasons:
- The impact of the return to year-long rotation schedules. We're still in a five-set standard right now, and we haven't had a seven-plus set standard in a long time.
- Dominara itself is a big draw to long established players the same way Return to Ravnica was; a return to some of the most fondly-remembered locations and characters in Magic's history.
- Most likely we'll see continued support for Ixalan's tribes in Dominara to make them viable in standard. Right now, outside of Ixalan, there are two pirates, two vampires, and zero merfolk or dinosaurs in standard.
Or you know make a good set with lots of high demand cards across uncommon and common which will make people want to buy it which will make its price go up.
Is return to ravnica considered a success by anyone?
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.
The only "ancient civilization" plane I remember that was actually destroyed was Amonkhet. Kamigawa and Theros are still very much thriving in the story.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
It isn't really that hard, Romans did a lot of good things, specially in the art, architecture and political departaments, but other than that, they were basically xenophobic people who thought they were better than everyone else.
What's your point? Why does it even matter? Rome had way more ethnicities and cultures under their wing than many countries today or in their whole history. Can you name a culture at the time that was not xhenophobic and what this even means?
The fact that they forged an empire that would last over a thousand years and become the basis of western civilization is considered a downside.
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.
The only "ancient civilization" plane I remember that was actually destroyed was Amonkhet. Kamigawa and Theros are still very much thriving in the story.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
It isn't really that hard, Romans did a lot of good things, specially in the art, architecture and political departaments, but other than that, they were basically xenophobic people who thought they were better than everyone else.
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.
The only "ancient civilization" plane I remember that was actually destroyed was Amonkhet. Kamigawa and Theros are still very much thriving in the story.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
As long as the people conjure in the senate and kick some barbaric asses the set will be fine.
I dont think you understand how Wizards does things these days, see Etherium sages reply.
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.
The only "ancient civilization" plane I remember that was actually destroyed was Amonkhet. Kamigawa and Theros are still very much thriving in the story.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
What I find great about the plane of Ixalan is it actually has similarities with Dominaria.
It's no coincidence that a plane with heavy tribal support for dinosaurs, pirates, merfolk, and vampires is going to be immediately followed by a set on Dominaria, the only other plane to have all four of those creatures types on it. They have been trying to do more multi-block synergy in standard. I'm fully expecting at least one pushed card in Dominaria for each Ixalan tribe.
Like if you were to describe the plane to someone else its "The meso-american plane with conquistador vampires, dinosaurs, Aztecs who tame said dinosaurs, pirates and also Maya merfolk." That it doesn't traditionally fit under the "Plane of Hats" theme that they have been pushing for awhile now. That it also reminds me of Tarkir in being a plane with fairly diverse cultures that clashed with each other.
Preach it. I've been saying this for a while now, but Alara, Tarkir, and now Ixalan are great planes and exactly what creative should be aiming for with every new plane: not too expansive and disjointed (Dominaria) but not a planet of hats either (Kaladesh, Amonkhet).
Tarkir had the benefit of being based on the Mongol Empire, which was itself very wide and incredibly diverse and stretched from East Asia through the Middle East and right up to the gates of Europe.
As for Kamigawa -- we know it's actually quite big. Though the area we saw was only a few hundred miles across at most, the novels mention other continents and other lands, particularly east of Jukai. But these are unknown and mysterious to Kamigawa's people.
The Innistrad artbook and Planeswalkers Guide, meanwhile, refer to the four "known" provinces of Innistrad, leaving room for more if the creative team ever wants to expand the plane.
Unfortunately, that seems pretty unlikely. They had their chance during SOI. With return blocks they mostly seem concerned with bringing back what players liked rather than introducing new parts of the plane. Planes like Kamigawa might have a better chance of getting more exploration in a return set since what they've already shown wasn't too popular (although that same reason makes returning there at all very unlikely). But they've had so much success with the current elements of Innistrad that I can't see them putting much focus on other areas of the plane, at least not in the near future.
Places like Fiora and Innistrad could on the exact same plane for all we know, separated only by the sea. Imagine if Planeswalkers cane to Earth: some might wind up in a plane called "America" while others wind up in a plane called "Europe." Unless they were told, little would they know they could travel from one place to the other by boat.
Interesting that you brought up Fiora, because that's a plane that also has other (mostly) unexplored areas, such as Trest and Drakeston. And unlike Innistrad, where the other continent was an offhand mention that didn't become relevant in the return and that they seem to have no interest in expanding on, Fiora's other areas seem to have been made with an actual purpose and we know some details about them. While future Conspiracy sets will probably continue to focus almost entirely on Paliano, I think that they've been setting up other areas so that they can have a larger world to work with if they ever attempt to do a standard-legal set or block on Fiora.
Tarkir had the benefit of being based on the Mongol Empire, which was itself very wide and incredibly diverse and stretched from East Asia through the Middle East and right up to the gates of Europe.
As for Kamigawa -- we know it's actually quite big. Though the area we saw was only a few hundred miles across at most, the novels mention other continents and other lands, particularly east of Jukai. But these are unknown and mysterious to Kamigawa's people.
The Innistrad artbook and Planeswalkers Guide, meanwhile, refer to the four "known" provinces of Innistrad, leaving room for more if the creative team ever wants to expand the plane.
Places like Fiora and Innistrad could on the exact same plane for all we know, separated only by the sea. Imagine if Planeswalkers cane to Earth: some might wind up in a plane called "America" while others wind up in a plane called "Europe." Unless they were told, little would they know they could travel from one place to the other by boat.
As far as I know, Emrakul affected the entire plane, so while the idea would be interesting in a vacuum, I doubt Innistrad and Fiora are in the same space.
Another interesting idea would be if the Roman plane Licia comes from is actually the same plane as a plane we've been to already.
I was kind of hoping that she would be from a different area of Fiora but she looks too ancient Roman and not enough Renaissance Italy. I'm still holding out for Nekusar to be from Fiora though, since what little we know about him fits with Paliano extremely well and he could easily have been the monarch before Brago took over.
To summarize, the blurbs for Licia and Saskia have some pretty absurd similarities in how they are described, and it almost certainly isn't a coincidence. It seems likely that they're planning ahead for or at least considering a sort of Romans vs. Barbarians plane, which is not only a fairly resonant historical trope but also distinct enough from Theros to be its own thing (which is the greatest obstacle to making a Roman plane).
It's not exactly the same as having her be from an existing plane, but if they were going to do that they probably would have just said so when they revealed her, rather than saying that she's from an unknown plane. With characters like those, your best bet is probably waiting until they make a future plane, where either they were planning to have those characters be from it the entire time or they decide to retroactively make them part of it because they fit the theme. We've already seen this happen with Edric and Sydri being from Fiora. I think it's safe to say that Licia and Saskia (and maybe Inalla) are intended to be from the same plane, and one day that plane might actually be the setting for a real set.
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.
There are tons of other places wizards of coasts could cut fat, why card quality?
Or they could restructure like normal companies do.
Downsizing staff? Changing advertisement tactics?
I mean how many times does Wizards have to do gimicky introduction stuff before they quit trying?
Im talking about in the context of the original ravnica block in particular rav-tsp.
A lot of the power and value was in uncommons and commons and just spread out in general.
No they really werent xenophobic, they let conquered people lived as they pleased and worshiped as they pleased as long as they didnt revolt.
Gauls and other barbarians were integrated into the empire.
They had trade and peace deals with their neighbors.
Thats why I said spread out accross common and uncommon, more lightning helixs, putrefies and mortifies and less Jaces and voices of resurgence.
Or you know make a good set with lots of high demand cards across uncommon and common which will make people want to buy it which will make its price go up.
Is return to ravnica considered a success by anyone?
The fact that they forged an empire that would last over a thousand years and become the basis of western civilization is considered a downside.
I mean Austria is the only continental European nation that has figured out what to do, and it was integrating people back in, not shunning them.
The reason I bring it up is that the whole if you dont like it then leave, doesnt pan out in the long run.
I remember when debate was the first real forum I ever participated in.
And there it is.
I dont think you understand how Wizards does things these days, see Etherium sages reply.
I have zero faith in Wizards of the Coasts doing a respectful job of paying homage to Roman society.
Please please stay away from Rome, destroy everything else but leave her be.