- Roscoe The Ironclad
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Member for 16 years, 9 months, and 21 days
Last active Wed, Apr, 26 2023 21:45:31
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Feb 5, 2014Roscoe The Ironclad posted a message on Launch Giveaway!For me it always has been and always will be Quicksilver Dragon. Amazing flavor, beautiful art, and it was a 3-of in the first deck I built for a competitive tournament.Posted in: Announcements
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Most of the lists I've been able to find are out of date.
The first and biggest reason is that they were the natural replacement for lost Khans fetches. I hadn't consciously considered any other reasoning until you brought it up, but the answer is the same as it was last season. There will (often) be games where you MUST cast Chandra, Flamecaller to win, and haven't found 2 sources of red or an Oath of Nissa. 4 lands, 4 sorceries (Explosive Vegetation), and 4 Oathes are usually enough to get me what I need, but not always, and the only reasonable risk I see is not being able to play t1 Oath, t2, dork, t3 E veggies. That is the dream hand though, and I run a higher than normal number of threats, so it hasn't bothered me. I suppose the wilds could just be more basics, but I like the idea of thinning the deck out, with such a low opportunity cost.
As for Mirrorpool, I guess I could test it, though I was hoping someone else already had. The prospect of a fifth land in the deck coming into play tapped is scary (if I draw it naturally).
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Deathcap Cultivator
2 Dragonlord Atarka
4 World Breaker
4 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
10 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Cinder Glade
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Evolving Wilds
1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
1 Rogue's Passage
3 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Clip Wings
3 Rending Volley
4 Kozilek's Return
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
This is the list that, mostly the same, has won the last two weeks at FNM, in a field of mostly W and GW humans, with a splash of WB drazi' and Redrazi.
I made the following changes between two weeks ago and last Friday:
-4 Hedron Crawler, +4 Deathcap Cultivator
If you aren't going the traverse route and you don't need the colorless mana, Deathcap seems like the best dork around. He was delirious once, but it didn't matter. still, best option for mana dork under these conditions.
-1 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods, +1 Rogue's Passage This change added an absurd clock. Wow. If a game goes long, you close it out with this. Was good in nearly every match.
I'm down to a single shrine now, and I'm open to replacing it with another value utility land. Adding hydras really cut down on the need for shrines in the first place, but I don't feel bad leaving one in there to search up in the corner case where I have access to Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger but am one mana shy. I've heard people mention Mirrorpool, are there any other ideas? It's interesting that searching up Crumbling Vestige with the hydra would refund you a mana of any color, but I don't know if that would be useful.
My local meta is very aggro-focused, so I'm starting to lean towards dropping the Elvish Visionarys for 3 of the Kozilek's Returns. Not sure though, the elves have been really good all around performers in G1 situations. Never fully dead. If I were to make that change, I'd put some number of Tireless Tracker in the SB, as that card never ceases to amaze me. I would probably (if I can ever find it) go up to 4 Rending Volleys as well.
All that said, this list is starting to feel really tight. I have game in every matchup, and I severely punish any but the most aggressive hand. Adding the Rogue's Passage makes the deck incredibly fast. Test out the hydra package!
3 Elvish Visionary
4 Hedron Crawler
2 Dragonlord Atarka
4 World Breaker
4 Ulvenwald Hydra
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
Spells
4 Oath of Nissa
4 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Explosive Vegetation
2 Hedron Archive
4 Nissa's Pilgrimage
10 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Cinder Glade
4 Sanctum of Ugin
4 Evolving Wilds
2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods
3 Jaddi Offshoot
3 Clip Wings
3 Rending Volley
4 Kozilek's Return
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
1 Void Winnower
This is the list I took tonight to my local FNM. I couldn't find a 4th Rending Volley, in the future I'm thinking 2 Clip Wings is probably enough and will switch one for the 4th volley.
Round 1(2-0): 5 Color planeswalkers. Mid range deck with low creature count. Very good MU and not much to say here.
Round 2(2-1): G/W Humans. Very good deck, list, and pilot. Blown out g1 with him on the play and killing me turn 5 before I could play my 6th source and cast one of the 2 Chandras in hand. OUT: Ulamog, 3x Visionary, 4x Hyrda, 2xHedron Archive.
IN: 4xKozilek's Return, 3xRending Volley, 3xJaddi Offshoot. Game 2, I go to 30 life off a turn 1 Jaddi Offshoot, 2 Evolving Wilds, and 2 Explosive Vegetation. I am low on gas but draw enough volley and return to survive until there is almost nothing but gas left in the deck. Dragonlord Atarka ended up MVP here, for obvious reasons.
Game 3 was very similar to game 2, with me finding Chandra and minusing her multiple times, and also casting free returns.
If they're running Ulvenwald Mysteries and you're one of the guys that took Kozilek's Return out, you're gonna have a hard time. It comes in against any non-aggro MU for them so expect to see it, it gives them a LOT of reach. Had I not drawn multiple returns games 2 and 3, this card would have run me over.
Round 3(2-0): U/W Eldrazi. Guy kept risky 6 card hands both games and eary World Breaker (turn 5 or 6, so not that early) kept him off mana for the bigger stuff both games.
Round4(Draw): He said he was on Bant Humans, but we didn't play so I have gained no wisdom here.
Overall, the deck runs like a well-oiled machine, only hiccuping a little in games where I lost my turn 2 Hedron Crawler. I kept the Nissa's Pilgrimages in for just that eventuality, and true to form, was able to draw out of just about anything. Ulvenwald Hydra is very good, very quickly, and it's nice to have another 4 cards after Chandra, Flamecaller that you can cast when you're at the "I ramped, but not perfectly" stage on turns 4 and 5. It's worth noting that this guy makes running 2 Shrine of the Forsaken Gods feel a lot more okay, and I'd consider going down to 1 to add in a utility land of some kind.
Hedron Crawler can probably be Deathcap Cultivator, as I never felt like I needed the <> specifically, and I was delirious multiple times.
Can't wait to play the deck more, and hope you guys have good experiences tonight and tomorrow.
For those who are considering running less than 4 World Breaker, remember, you're not running 4 to draw the 4th one, you're running 4 to draw the 1st one. Something to remember.
My thoughts on Ulvenwald Hydra vs. Conduit of Ruin. Removal has gotten even better than it was. Lightning Axe and Roast will kill Conduit of Ruin, but not the Hydra. For all the other cases, where either is killed, you're choosing between being left with a 7th land in play, or with what you tutored for on top of your deck, but still at 6 lands.
I think I would much rather depend on what's in my hand and my next draw with 7 lands than the hand and world breaker on top with 6 lands. Just my 2c.
Plus, it's looking like dragons is still going to be popular, and having more big fat reachers seems like where we want to be, if it's still on-plan.
Let's just agree that everything is pretty crappy there.
I dunno... don't werewolves... eat people? Did you not... murder a whole mess of people? Sorry, siding with the inquisition on this one.
Would you mind sending it to me as well? And is there any reason discussion isn't really continuing here? This is my main choice in legacy, but I hate not having an easy place to go to talk about it.
I'm sure most would agree with me in saying that not having 4 World Breaker DOES hurt you. It's literally the backbone of the deck. If you've liked Oblivion Sower, do as you will, I suppose, but I was testing the main board one-of for a while, and found it just doesn't fit. I know World Breaker > sac Sanctum of Ugin with only 6 lands left > grab Oblivion Sower to get back over 7 mana is a good play, but in my testing that almost never happened. What happened commonly, though, was drawing Oblivion Sower and wishing it was literally anything that effected the field or drew me cards.
My personal opinion is that, currently, Oblivion Sower is AT BEST just a cute effect. Mostly it's just a dead draw.
Visionarys do seem to help with consistency.
Here's the link to the decklist, in case anyone missed it:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=98949