Another good 2-drop would definitely be good. They just spoiled Miasma Mummy, which seems to be a possible replacement for Rotting Rats in some of the builds we've seen so far in this thread. The question would be if the 2/2 body is better than the Unearth ability.
Scrapheap Scrounger doesn't make sense to me in this deck. I don't want to exile my creatures, I want to keep getting them back, which is something we can do with our sac outlet.
Sweet, thanks for the quick reply. I will try it out! On a sad note, I am for some reason unable to get my hands on copies of rotting rats (I have all the other cards though), so I will be trying out Black Cat in its place. Fortunately we can get the same draw step lock with it.
@Ace1 I have noticed that you run Wail of the Nim in your sideboard (I'm referring to your mono B version). Would you mind elaborating on the situations/mathups it comes in for? Possibly as a counter to Anger of the Gods?
I just wanted to pop in to thank Ace1 for his regular and helpful posts in this thread. I'm currently trying to build Modern zombies myself, and your lists are a great place to begin brewing.
So the first thing to see is that I'm using 25 lands over 26. I felt like I was getting flooded so much with 26 lands. With 25 lands I fell like I am still comfortably hitting them all on time, especially with the full four copies of Anticipate in the deck. Secondly, using the playset of Aether Hub and going down to two copies of Submerged Boneyard gives me untapped mana more regularly. Using these lands, you have the 20 black sources needed to cast Grasp of Darkness on turn 2, and the 19 blue sources needed to cast Void Shatter on turn 3. Now, obviously people are scared that they will run out of energy with Aether Hub. In addition to four copies of Glimmer of Genius, I have been combining it with two copies of Aether Meltdown, and I honestly can't remember the last game where powering the hub has been an issue for me. Speaking of Aether Meltdown, I feel like people are sleeping on this card. It has been an all-star in several situations for me. It actually stops a Scrapheap Scrounger or Prized Amalgam, whereas other removal will just delay them for a while. I know it has its downsides, but I would encourage you guys to give it a try as a 2-of or 3-of. Early interaction against aggro is obviously very important, and three mana removal spells can sometimes feel painfully slow. This one is cheap, and also helps power Aether Hub. I think it's at least worth a try.
You have both stumbled onto the removal ratio of 4x Grasp of Darkness, 3x Essence Extraction, 1x Murder, and 2x Ruinous Path. Would you mind explaining what lead to this split? Obviously the grasps are an auto four-of. But I am very intrigued by the other ones, as Shaheen Soorani favours 3x Ruinous Path and 3x Murder maindeck, putting Essence Extraction in the board.
I like the addition of Dead Weight. I have tried Harsh Scrutiny in the 1-mana slot, with mostly decent results. Have you tried this card?
I have many other questions, as there are so many permutations to try, so many land configurations, and so many sideboard slots, but I will leave it here for now.
Can we discuss Kaladesh now that it's been spoilt? I don't see anything in there that's going to help this deck. Which is very annoying as now I'll need to go and buy a whole new deck...
Well at least we aren't really losing anything either. It remains to be seen if the deck in its current form can compete in the new metagame though. Time will tell.
@Siefer, with all those discards, I really wonder if you won't run too quickly out of fuel, before Haunted Dead can jumps into a graveyard.
I think you misunderstand that part of the big reason to play the discard outlets is just to put Haunted Dead and Prized Amalgam in the grave. What's more, Jace, Vryn's Prodigy and Cryptbreaker are automatically nuetral on card advantage since they give you a draw and a body respectively. Although Cryptbreaker debatably only gives you an instant speed Grizzly Bears, he also draws you cards later. Combine that with madness cards like Gisa's Bidding and Voldaren Pariah and you actually generate card advantage.
It is true that these versions can be somewhat soft to sweepers but planeswalkers like Jace, Telepath Unbound and Liliana, the Last Hope help can ease that problem a lot. Another way to deal with that is Gisa and Geralf, which has really excelled for me anyways.
In your most recent list (in this thread) you don't have Gisa and Geralf included, rather going for a more madness based/instant speed theme. What did you cut to make room for them?
Really interesting take, similar to that in the Cryptbreaker control thread. Unfortunately I don't have JVP, so I can't take this exact build to an FNM -I am currently using Relentless Dead in that slot. My main question to you is this: do you think Gisa's Bidding would still make it into the deck without the free discard from JVP?
I blue makes it more control which does not work well with zombie tribal in this current standard. This deck aims to simply keep on spamming cards from the graveyard and building up a zombie army until your opponent can not keep up with the card advantage.
The blue cards aren't there to make the deck into a control deck. Rather, they are there to protect the horde you are trying to build. For example, running two or three copies of negate protects you from board wipes. Also, Prized Amalgam is itself a zombie, and Gisa and Geralf is a strong creature that helps get you zombies back from the yard. The deck will still be mainly black, with just a small blue splash to accommodate these cards. You could run the following lands:
4x Choked Estuary
4x Sunken Hollow
12x Swamp
2x Island
2x Westvale Abbey (or Geier Reach Sanitarium) <--- This is a "flex" spot. You can fit in the utility lands of your choice, or simply put in two more swamps.
I have been trying out Vampiric Rites myself, and have been reasonably impressed with it so far. In several games it has provided quite a nice engine together with Relentless Dead.
Well, we should at least get a reprint of Vengeful Pharaoh
This is the mana base I'm using at the moment.
4 Aether Hub
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Choked Estuary
2 Submerged Boneyard
6 Swamp
5 Island
So the first thing to see is that I'm using 25 lands over 26. I felt like I was getting flooded so much with 26 lands. With 25 lands I fell like I am still comfortably hitting them all on time, especially with the full four copies of Anticipate in the deck. Secondly, using the playset of Aether Hub and going down to two copies of Submerged Boneyard gives me untapped mana more regularly. Using these lands, you have the 20 black sources needed to cast Grasp of Darkness on turn 2, and the 19 blue sources needed to cast Void Shatter on turn 3. Now, obviously people are scared that they will run out of energy with Aether Hub. In addition to four copies of Glimmer of Genius, I have been combining it with two copies of Aether Meltdown, and I honestly can't remember the last game where powering the hub has been an issue for me. Speaking of Aether Meltdown, I feel like people are sleeping on this card. It has been an all-star in several situations for me. It actually stops a Scrapheap Scrounger or Prized Amalgam, whereas other removal will just delay them for a while. I know it has its downsides, but I would encourage you guys to give it a try as a 2-of or 3-of. Early interaction against aggro is obviously very important, and three mana removal spells can sometimes feel painfully slow. This one is cheap, and also helps power Aether Hub. I think it's at least worth a try.
Your list has a lot in common with the 9th place finisher Nicolas de Nicola at GP Santiago. Check out his list at the top of this page http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/gpsan16/9-64-decklists-2016-10-30
Your main decks differ in the following ways:
He runs the 9th swamp instead of Blighted Fen.
He has no Dead Weight, but runs a 2nd Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and 1 copy of Revolutionary Rebuff.
You have both stumbled onto the removal ratio of 4x Grasp of Darkness, 3x Essence Extraction, 1x Murder, and 2x Ruinous Path. Would you mind explaining what lead to this split? Obviously the grasps are an auto four-of. But I am very intrigued by the other ones, as Shaheen Soorani favours 3x Ruinous Path and 3x Murder maindeck, putting Essence Extraction in the board.
I like the addition of Dead Weight. I have tried Harsh Scrutiny in the 1-mana slot, with mostly decent results. Have you tried this card?
I have many other questions, as there are so many permutations to try, so many land configurations, and so many sideboard slots, but I will leave it here for now.
Well at least we aren't really losing anything either. It remains to be seen if the deck in its current form can compete in the new metagame though. Time will tell.
In your most recent list (in this thread) you don't have Gisa and Geralf included, rather going for a more madness based/instant speed theme. What did you cut to make room for them?
The blue cards aren't there to make the deck into a control deck. Rather, they are there to protect the horde you are trying to build. For example, running two or three copies of negate protects you from board wipes. Also, Prized Amalgam is itself a zombie, and Gisa and Geralf is a strong creature that helps get you zombies back from the yard. The deck will still be mainly black, with just a small blue splash to accommodate these cards. You could run the following lands:
4x Choked Estuary
4x Sunken Hollow
12x Swamp
2x Island
2x Westvale Abbey (or Geier Reach Sanitarium) <--- This is a "flex" spot. You can fit in the utility lands of your choice, or simply put in two more swamps.
2 Westvale Abbey
2 Blighted Fen
20 Swamp
1-CMC (8)
4 Shambling Goblin
2 Dead Weight
2 Vampiric Rites
2-CMC (11)
4 Relentless Dead
4 Grasp of Darkness
3 Transgress the Mind
3 Diregraf Colossus
3 Fleshbag Marauder
2 Nantuko Husk
2 Liliana, Heretical Healer
4-CMC (5)
2 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Languish
5-CMC (2)
2 Ob Nixilis Reignited
3 Duress
2 Pick the Brain
3 Risen Executioner
1 Languish
3 Ruinous Path
2 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
1 Ever After
I am still working on it though - any constructive criticisms are welcome. If someone wants, I can try to explain some of my reasoning.