Well, they are still able to deal combat damage themselves while the opposing creatures won't scratch them. I think the best way to look at them it like wolves that have a little bit more of synergy with werewolves, such as being affected by Full Moon's Rise and sharing "joker tribal bonus" provided by cards such as Cavern of Souls, Obelisk of Urd and Adaptive Automaton.
You know, it's funny how these werewolves actually don't work well with Immerwolf; They still get the boost, just that they can't power up
Well, the kessig prowler can't transform, but he becomes a 3/2 for one mana, which is nice. It is also worth to mention that immerwolf is a huge target for your opponent's creature removals. So it turns out that sometimes your opponent will find it better to leave your immerwolf alive instead.
From what i see, the problem is not the eldrazi themselves. What really went wrong was: A) a lack of planning out of the standard metagame, which has lead to a power creep on other formats after the OGW eldrazi releases, and B) they didn't know how to move the spotlight from the eldrazi to other characters. They pushed them so much, nobody stands them anymore. On BFZ and OGW, half of the creatures were eldrazi, and and the other half all received the Ally type. It really felt like the whole block was a huge ally vs eldrazi duel deck. And then we move to another plane, take a little breath, and then SURPRISE MOTHERF*CKERS, IT'S ELDRAZI ALL OVER AGAIN! NO! Man, eldrazi can be greatly explored. I'll admit i didnt follow the original zendikar block, but, from what i see, the eldrazi back then were few and all had high costs, which made them feel like a real and serious threat. On the return to zendikar, they banalized the eldrazi, made them appear everywhere, and all the lore orbited around them. Any tribe would be rejected after that. They really shouldnt have made 2-set blocks, or just make the walkers deal with both ulamog and kozilek on BFZ, and Emrakul on OGW, leaving space for other threats on innistrad
Maybe for some the looks are the problem. For me is the unplayability the transformation costs have. I mean, damn, the CMC1 NEEDS 5 FREAKING MANA to transform into basically a vanilla 4/4 what will the costs of the CMCs2+ tranformations be? My problems are: A) that the CMC1 will very likely be the only playable werewolf in standard and other formats, and B) we will very likely not get the tribal support we need to boost them in modern after they rotate out of standard, so we will have to wait six more years to wait FOR ANOTHER CHANCE to TRY.
IF any of those weredrazi did what Ulrich should do (support the werewolf tribe by stabilizing their transformation in any way, buff them with anthems, etc) I would love it and be all cheerful. But that's not going to happen, it's not flavorful: eldrazi are there to f*ck innistrad up, and if all werewolves are eldrazi, then this means no werewolf will help the tribe
And when they made a new werewolf that did things by flipping back and forth, it was the werewolf fanboiz who *****ed loudest of all. Just look at the Ulrich thread.
I kind of get the griping. I liked it, they changed it, sure. But that's exactly what content makers do once they've retread a design space into the ground. And WotC has certainly done that. But folks seem to be implying that people who play the same deck constitute any sort of meaningful demographic, and that Hasbro is making deliberate choices to persecute that demographic, and those people making those insinuations are out of their ******* minds.
Yes, all those cards you used as an example are great on their own, but the tribal itself doesnt get enough support. Pacifist needs a deck all centered on anthem effects to work. The two lords are both easily removed by almost any removal in standard and modern. And the non-creature anthems are troublesome, considering that they are occupying slots for removals and Collected Company needs a deck with little number of non-creature spells. Duskwatch is great and I wont complain, it was more of him I was expecting. Mayor is great, but a 1/1 human body for cmc2 really hurts. It really hurts to take an electrolyze that kills your mayor and other werewolf while giving your opponent another card. And Huntmaster of the fells is the prime example of what a werewolf should be. Only problem with him is that he falls off of CoCo's reach, but I admit he would be too broken for cmc3 or lower.
The thing with Ulrich is that he is quite too expensive for an aggro deck (that werewolves should be) and he doesnt support the tribe as he should do, he works for himself mostly. As a commander, we wanted something that helped werewolves and rewarded us for making a deck around the creature type. Commanders needs to MAKE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE FIELD THE MOMENT THEY COME IN, and ulrich doesnt do that. He needs to be casted normally, on your own turn, that implies on another turn your wolves won't transform. When he enters, he just gives +4/+4 to someone UNTIL THE END OF TURN, and then he stays a regular 4/4 until he transforms. I don't know how much you've played commanders, but they need to make a lot more than that. He doesnt even have trample on his wolf side, for god's sake. He'll be blocked by countless tokens all day and never hurt the opponent untill he destroys ulrich or kill you. And his effects are not that great on CMC5, now imagine he returns to the commander zone and then you have to pay 7 for a 4/4 creature who gives +4/+4 to another. Had he been a regular rare werewolf, he would be okay (not good or great, okay), but, as our commander, he is frustrating. He is just a nerfed huntmaster. Those usefullness on both sides need to be more frequent and appear on cheaper werewolves, on CMCs 1 to 3. Duskwatch does not do anything with the transformation itself, but he is useful on both sides at CMC2 with a 2/2 human body and a 3/3 werewolf one. That's what werewolves in general should be. But there are little good CMCs 1 and 2 for the tribe.
And it wouldn't be a problem for wizards to try to inovate on the expense of werewolves if we hadn't to wait for returns to innistrad to HAVE A CHANCE to see them shine again, and get craps like Sage of Ancient Lore and those weredrazi freaks wasting precious slots that could be used by new duskwatches and huntmasters. You can't really believe it's okay for wizards to cut all werewolves from EMN to make room for freaking eldrazi, that have been everywhere in the last block and even threatened the modern metagame and became a solid legacy deck from night to day
EDIT: and no, i don't have a problem with them trying new things, what made me mad is that they took out all the dfc slots of the werewolves (who appear just in innistrad) and gave it to the eldrazi (who have been appearing quite a lot lately and can show up in literally any plane). And the red weredrazis are pretty unplayable out of constructed. The CMC1 green one is good only for being a 2/1 CMC1 with no drawbacks, but that's it. Paying 5 for him to turn into basically a vanilla 4/4 (let's face it, being blocked by just one creature is no big deal) is quite exaggerated. Paying 4 to transform it would be reasonable and paying 3 would be a little strong, but five mana really hurts. Okay, i know the idea is to spend the mana to let the actual werewolves transform, but tapping all your lands on turn 5 just to transform this guy is not that great.
Cheer up guys, WotC is too cowardly to destroy Innistrad so after the Jacevengers defeat Em we'll return to Innistrad again and surely by then more classic werewolves will show up.
I feel your pain, I really do. I'm a jellyfish fan and learning that Gomazoas were driven to extinction by Koz and Ula in BFZ/OGW stung real bad.
I know, i'm pretty sure Innistrad will get rid of Emrakul in the end, it's too popular of a plane to be destroyed. The problem is: werewolves are exclusive to innistrad, they practically only exist there and therefore only get more support and tools there. It's not like goblins, vampires, zombies, merfolks, dragons, angels and everything else that receives support in a more regular basis. I mean, vampire fans were on their own and suddenly... BAN! They get a great kalitas. Goblins get guide on the first zendikar, some good ones on gatecrash, and they recently have gotten a reprint of the piledriver on magic origins... This doesnt happen to werewolves: if it's not innistrad, you wont get sh*t there and you know it. And they always mess them up in the final set of the block. Last time we've gotten the cursemute, no werewolves on avacyn restored, and no legendary creature. On this set we've got a planeswalker that doesnt really support the tribe, a crap card for commander, and all of their slots have been replaced to eldrazi on EMN, so i'm pretty sure we'll just wait 6 more years for wizards to give us the middle finger again.
Werewolf survive Wolfir, they will live with this. When we come back we'll see them again.
They may be previous werewolves in the lore and all, but in the cards they are wolves, so they don't count.
And yes, this simple detail make them lose a lot of synergy with the rest of the tribe
I assume you mean the wolfir? What I just mean that this isn't a death of werewolf transform day/night mechanic.
Oh, I see.
But i'm still highly disappointed, on SOI, we've got such good additions to the deck, such as village messenger, duskwatch recruiter, and geier reach bandit. It really looked like they would give the tribe a lot of support on EMN, and, instead, they replace them all with weredrazi that still manage to have a non-reliable alternative transformation mechanic. It looks like we wont have any transformation cost cheaper than 4 on a CMC1 or 2. They don't synergize well with the regular werewolves and Maro has confirmed there will be no regular werewolves on this set. If you take into consideration we waited 6 years to see them shine, well, you can imagine the frustration we are facing right now
What we were expecting? Well, how about they realizing that the classic transformation mechanic was such a big drawback, and therefore, they shouldn't be so afraid of making them way too broken, like they freaking did with the eldrazi?
Seeing the failure of werewolves in competitive play because of their drawbacks, they could create more cards that help human werewolves to transform, more cards that prevent werewolves from becoming human again, put several of those effects on a single card (which would make a great legendary creature for commander), invest heavily on the flash keyword (which goes pretty well with the tribe), make stronger human sides (even if they nerf the wolf side a little), make more werewolves that have some positive impact when transforming to either side like Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells, focus more on low CMCs, like 1 and 2, stop trying to include wolves in the werewolf tribal, etc
Really, all that prevents werewolves from becoming viable and a strong tribe is wizards' lack of interest in doing so
Maybe it's a little of overreacting, but honestly, I just feel like dropping MTG once more after those spoilers and that answer from MaRo. I knew Magic way before Innistrad, but I've played a little on the old Innistrad and goddamit i've loved to play with these butt-sniffers. Some months ago, i've gotten into touch once again with old-time friends of mine and we all came back to magic and made some kitchen table decks. I didn't think twice before completing playset of all the old dogs from first inns and it felt really great. Everyone was afraid of me and focused on killing me because they knew that if they forgot about me they'd just take 30 damage easily right into their faces (Thanks, instigator gang!). BFZ came and we started getting into the competitive standard. It felt awkward seeing eldrazis everywhere: in standard, modern and legacy, but it was okay. Then innistrad was announced and I got really hyped all of a sudden because they were coming back. They announced Arlinn and I was foaming from my mouth out of excitement. They revealed her card and I got a little frustrated that she was not oriented for the tribal, but I still loved reading about her and anticipating everything. We also gained many great toys in SOI such as village messenger, duskwatch recruiter and geier reach bandit. It felt like they finally realized how they overnerfed the tribe on the first block and everything was pointing that they would buff the tribe some more on Eldritch Moon (A set focused on the freaking moon, the coming of a werewolf planeswalker, Avacyn's death, no cursemute and a threat that Arlinn said would be faced only by the werewolves. They simply would dominate all the game tables!). And then Ulrich was revealed, and it was like they've just taken an old scrap that was rejected from first innistrad and threw it right at our faces. And then... those abominations. And Maro confirming that they simply just don't really care about a part of the players who waited six years for them to return. It doesnt matter if there are people who love this tribe and that we only get a shot at making some progress in innistrad... no. They just wanted to surprise everyone and add a hella lot of eldrazis there, even though we got really sick of them after the eldrazi winter. They didn't think twice about cutting all our werewolves to make room for that plague that literally infested the game as a whole in the last block. Not one single bastard in the design team seemed to care that werewolves, unlike other tribes, are exclusive to innistrad and, therefore, should have a little more of attention and support than other tribes who appear in a ton of other planes.
I'll just look for the rest of the set to see if they make single faced werewolves or make some noncreature support spells that help the ones from SOI. I'll also read the lore to try to figure out if there is any chance that Arlinn will have some impact and protagonism on other planes or if she will just be a one-time only planeswalker like tibalt. That way i'll know if i can watch the mtg lore from a distance waiting for the time when wizards realize how they neglected fans of the tribe like me. I know this won't impact WotC at all, but, just like they care way more about getting profit out of their product, I have the freedom to not give my money to a company that just cares so little about what their costumers want."We really fought you'd like what we did to Ulrich" N*GGA, HAD YOU TAKEN 5 MINUTES OF YOUR FREAKING TIME TO LOOK UP FOR SOME FAN MADE CARDS OF THE ALPHAS, YOU'D KNOW IN A MOMENT THAT WE FREAKING WANTED TRIBAL SYNERGY AND SUPPORT
Well, the kessig prowler can't transform, but he becomes a 3/2 for one mana, which is nice. It is also worth to mention that immerwolf is a huge target for your opponent's creature removals. So it turns out that sometimes your opponent will find it better to leave your immerwolf alive instead.
IF any of those weredrazi did what Ulrich should do (support the werewolf tribe by stabilizing their transformation in any way, buff them with anthems, etc) I would love it and be all cheerful. But that's not going to happen, it's not flavorful: eldrazi are there to f*ck innistrad up, and if all werewolves are eldrazi, then this means no werewolf will help the tribe
Yes, all those cards you used as an example are great on their own, but the tribal itself doesnt get enough support. Pacifist needs a deck all centered on anthem effects to work. The two lords are both easily removed by almost any removal in standard and modern. And the non-creature anthems are troublesome, considering that they are occupying slots for removals and Collected Company needs a deck with little number of non-creature spells. Duskwatch is great and I wont complain, it was more of him I was expecting. Mayor is great, but a 1/1 human body for cmc2 really hurts. It really hurts to take an electrolyze that kills your mayor and other werewolf while giving your opponent another card. And Huntmaster of the fells is the prime example of what a werewolf should be. Only problem with him is that he falls off of CoCo's reach, but I admit he would be too broken for cmc3 or lower.
The thing with Ulrich is that he is quite too expensive for an aggro deck (that werewolves should be) and he doesnt support the tribe as he should do, he works for himself mostly. As a commander, we wanted something that helped werewolves and rewarded us for making a deck around the creature type. Commanders needs to MAKE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE FIELD THE MOMENT THEY COME IN, and ulrich doesnt do that. He needs to be casted normally, on your own turn, that implies on another turn your wolves won't transform. When he enters, he just gives +4/+4 to someone UNTIL THE END OF TURN, and then he stays a regular 4/4 until he transforms. I don't know how much you've played commanders, but they need to make a lot more than that. He doesnt even have trample on his wolf side, for god's sake. He'll be blocked by countless tokens all day and never hurt the opponent untill he destroys ulrich or kill you. And his effects are not that great on CMC5, now imagine he returns to the commander zone and then you have to pay 7 for a 4/4 creature who gives +4/+4 to another. Had he been a regular rare werewolf, he would be okay (not good or great, okay), but, as our commander, he is frustrating. He is just a nerfed huntmaster. Those usefullness on both sides need to be more frequent and appear on cheaper werewolves, on CMCs 1 to 3. Duskwatch does not do anything with the transformation itself, but he is useful on both sides at CMC2 with a 2/2 human body and a 3/3 werewolf one. That's what werewolves in general should be. But there are little good CMCs 1 and 2 for the tribe.
And it wouldn't be a problem for wizards to try to inovate on the expense of werewolves if we hadn't to wait for returns to innistrad to HAVE A CHANCE to see them shine again, and get craps like Sage of Ancient Lore and those weredrazi freaks wasting precious slots that could be used by new duskwatches and huntmasters. You can't really believe it's okay for wizards to cut all werewolves from EMN to make room for freaking eldrazi, that have been everywhere in the last block and even threatened the modern metagame and became a solid legacy deck from night to day
EDIT: and no, i don't have a problem with them trying new things, what made me mad is that they took out all the dfc slots of the werewolves (who appear just in innistrad) and gave it to the eldrazi (who have been appearing quite a lot lately and can show up in literally any plane). And the red weredrazis are pretty unplayable out of constructed. The CMC1 green one is good only for being a 2/1 CMC1 with no drawbacks, but that's it. Paying 5 for him to turn into basically a vanilla 4/4 (let's face it, being blocked by just one creature is no big deal) is quite exaggerated. Paying 4 to transform it would be reasonable and paying 3 would be a little strong, but five mana really hurts. Okay, i know the idea is to spend the mana to let the actual werewolves transform, but tapping all your lands on turn 5 just to transform this guy is not that great.
I know, i'm pretty sure Innistrad will get rid of Emrakul in the end, it's too popular of a plane to be destroyed. The problem is: werewolves are exclusive to innistrad, they practically only exist there and therefore only get more support and tools there. It's not like goblins, vampires, zombies, merfolks, dragons, angels and everything else that receives support in a more regular basis. I mean, vampire fans were on their own and suddenly... BAN! They get a great kalitas. Goblins get guide on the first zendikar, some good ones on gatecrash, and they recently have gotten a reprint of the piledriver on magic origins... This doesnt happen to werewolves: if it's not innistrad, you wont get sh*t there and you know it. And they always mess them up in the final set of the block. Last time we've gotten the cursemute, no werewolves on avacyn restored, and no legendary creature. On this set we've got a planeswalker that doesnt really support the tribe, a crap card for commander, and all of their slots have been replaced to eldrazi on EMN, so i'm pretty sure we'll just wait 6 more years for wizards to give us the middle finger again.
Oh, I see.
But i'm still highly disappointed, on SOI, we've got such good additions to the deck, such as village messenger, duskwatch recruiter, and geier reach bandit. It really looked like they would give the tribe a lot of support on EMN, and, instead, they replace them all with weredrazi that still manage to have a non-reliable alternative transformation mechanic. It looks like we wont have any transformation cost cheaper than 4 on a CMC1 or 2. They don't synergize well with the regular werewolves and Maro has confirmed there will be no regular werewolves on this set. If you take into consideration we waited 6 years to see them shine, well, you can imagine the frustration we are facing right now
They may be previous werewolves in the lore and all, but in the cards they are wolves, so they don't count.
And yes, this simple detail make them lose a lot of synergy with the rest of the tribe
Seeing the failure of werewolves in competitive play because of their drawbacks, they could create more cards that help human werewolves to transform, more cards that prevent werewolves from becoming human again, put several of those effects on a single card (which would make a great legendary creature for commander), invest heavily on the flash keyword (which goes pretty well with the tribe), make stronger human sides (even if they nerf the wolf side a little), make more werewolves that have some positive impact when transforming to either side like Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells, focus more on low CMCs, like 1 and 2, stop trying to include wolves in the werewolf tribal, etc
Really, all that prevents werewolves from becoming viable and a strong tribe is wizards' lack of interest in doing so
I'll just look for the rest of the set to see if they make single faced werewolves or make some noncreature support spells that help the ones from SOI. I'll also read the lore to try to figure out if there is any chance that Arlinn will have some impact and protagonism on other planes or if she will just be a one-time only planeswalker like tibalt. That way i'll know if i can watch the mtg lore from a distance waiting for the time when wizards realize how they neglected fans of the tribe like me. I know this won't impact WotC at all, but, just like they care way more about getting profit out of their product, I have the freedom to not give my money to a company that just cares so little about what their costumers want."We really fought you'd like what we did to Ulrich" N*GGA, HAD YOU TAKEN 5 MINUTES OF YOUR FREAKING TIME TO LOOK UP FOR SOME FAN MADE CARDS OF THE ALPHAS, YOU'D KNOW IN A MOMENT THAT WE FREAKING WANTED TRIBAL SYNERGY AND SUPPORT